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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Dottie as Theodora

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  • dottie zold
    Whatever Tom, whatever man. You can say anything you want and no matter how versed you or the others are it does not mean you can place a souls state in any
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 1, 2006
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      Whatever Tom, whatever man. You can say anything you
      want and no matter how versed you or the others are it
      does not mean you can place a souls state in any one
      area. Anger is not a place I work from in any case. It
      never has been no matter how it looks on list. You've
      met me in person and you have seen me. You have
      interacted with me and even if we had a discussion
      about what you wrote here on Michaelmas you would not
      experience anger from me unless of course that was
      your own thinking about 'what' I was saying.

      But it doesn't matter Tom. It really doesn't. I've
      heard pronouncements from all your 'intellectual'
      buddies, of which you are one obviously but see
      yourself somehow seperate from them in some way, and
      you as well even before when you brought this up to me
      on the side. And what I've learned is that you cats
      are the ones doing most of the projection while
      postulizing it is the others. I've watched it over and
      over.

      All your talk about shadow is just talk, that's all it
      is. And you can talk till the cows come home and that
      would not change a frieken thing Tom. And I'm not
      clairvoyant by the way. I'm actually a girl who has
      pierced through to Philosophy of Freedom through my
      work in How To Know Higher Worlds. Fancy that.

      Take Care Tom,
      Dottie

      --- tmasthenes13 <TomBuoyed@...> wrote:

      >
      > Hi Dottie,
      >
      >
      >
      > In Rudolf Steiner's Mystery Plays, there is a
      > characternamed
      > Theodora, who appears suddenly in the first play,
      > saying that she
      > is"impelled to speak." When she addresses the group
      > in this
      > public gathering, shespeaks about the return of
      > Christ in the Etheric
      > realm. The play itself wasperformed in 1909, and
      > this was 24 years
      > before the beginning of Christ'sreturn in 1933.
      >
      >
      >
      > Your name being Dottie, short for Dorothy, is the
      > reversalof the 2
      > elements of Theodora. The first is "Gift of God; the
      > second is
      > "God'sGift." You have always reminded me of this
      > character
      > Theodora since you are"impelled to post" and you are
      > a prophet
      > of the etheric Christ, not is thepredictive sense,
      > but more in the
      > function of a prophet as one who givespresent day
      > warnings to the tribe.
      >
      >
      >
      > To Rudolf Steiner,the being of Theodora represented
      > a vast and puzzling
      > side effect of the returnof Christ in the etheric,
      > namely the bestowing
      > of spontaneous clairvoyance onthousands of people
      > who never knew what
      > was coming. These are people who didnot have to work
      > for the
      > clairvoyance; it was spontaneously given them
      > bygrace. They did not have
      > to do any special spiritual exercises from KoHW or
      > anykind of yoga or
      > devotional practice. They got it whether they
      > deserved it ornot, whether
      > So you Dottie, as Dorothea, in your spontaneous
      > appearance on theSteiner
      > Internet, today represent the modern version of
      > Theodora.
      >
      >
      >
      > You are most comfortable operating out of the
      > Sentient Soulmode, in
      > which you live and breathe in the impressions you
      > receive andprojections
      > you make on others, staying very close to the
      > boundary betweenyourself
      > and the outer worlds. And Imust say, I have the
      > most fun with all the
      > haplessly head-bound IntellectualSoul efforts made
      > by Joel and Steve
      > Hale, e.g., who desperately try to "educate" you in
      > thinking
      > just like Henry Higgins tried to educate Eliza
      > Doolittle inspeaking in
      > My Fair Lady, the musical based on GB Shaw's play,
      > Pygmalion.
      > Butyour sturdy and stubborn grace clairvoyance
      > confounds them every time
      > andhopefully will lead them toward an awakening of
      > the Consciousness
      > Soul, as theygo off from interactions with you
      > singing: "Why
      > can't a woman be more like a man?"
      >
      >
      >
      > Now let's get a scorecard here. We know that the
      > three soulseach
      > have different "teachers." RS delineates this in 4
      > lectures
      > given October1909 in Berlin about the respective
      > "Missions" of
      > Anger, Truth, and ReligiousDevotion (cycle called
      > "Metamorphoses of
      > the Soul.")
      >
      >
      >
      > The teacher of the Sentient Soul is . . . Anger
      > ------> at home in the
      > AstralBody
      >
      >
      >
      > The teacher of the Intellectual Soul is . . . Truth
      > ------> at home
      > in the EthericBody
      >
      >
      >
      > The teacher of the Consciousness Soul is . . .
      > Religious Devotion ---->
      > at home in the Physical Body
      >
      >
      >
      > When we live in the SS, then we are on the edge of
      > oursenses, and anger
      > acts as the "gatekeeper" to prevent unwanted
      > impressions
      > fromcoming in from people or things we don't like in
      > the outer
      > world, but also, togo the other way, to project out
      > our anger on to the
      > world so we can avoid facing it inside ourselves.
      >
      >
      >
      > Yet, deeper inside, we feel a dim presentiment of
      > truth, butwe can't
      > get to it, because we are chained by our anger to
      > the
      > senses'boundaries, just like Prometheus was chained
      > to the mountain
      > rocks. But if we can relax and allow that anger
      > torun its course, then
      > that very same anger energy can eventually lead us
      > intothe inner truth
      > of a situation, by allowing the sense impressions to
      > comedeeper inside,
      > to the inner room of the Intellectual Soul where we
      > go overthese sense
      > impressions in the Mind and their truth or untruth
      > teaches us.
      >
      >
      >
      > But once we descend into the density and isolation
      > of thephysical body,
      > we are in the Consciousness Soul where truth no
      > longer mattersbecause it
      > can't teach us here. Down in the dark depths of the
      > physical body,we
      > can only function or get around by developing a
      > sense of religious
      > devotion,not only to ourselves and the outer world,
      > but most importantly
      > to the I AM ofeach and every Other person we know
      > and meet. This then is
      > truly the awakeningof the 12th and Highest of the 12
      > senses: The Sense
      > of Ego, meaningthe spiritual perceiving of the Other
      > person's ego.
      >
      >
      >
      > At this stage, we may actually become freely devoted
      > toanother human
      > being -- beyond any agreements or disagreements, in
      > spite of ournatural
      > likes and dislikes, no matter what differences we
      > may have in
      > ideas,ideals and ideologies.
      >
      >
      >
      > In the realm of the Consciousness Soul, we reach the
      > levelwhere Bobby
      > Matherne's Rule #1, The AMAT Principle, applies:
      > "All Meanings
      > Are True!" In this realm, weare beyond right and
      > wrong, beyond good
      > and evil, beyond antipathies andsympathies. We are
      > witnesses to what we
      > are doing, and we become "hypocrites"according to
      > the original
      > meaning of that word, which was the ancient
      > Greekword for
      > "actor."
      >
      >
      >
      > "Hypocrite" is composed of two Greek words: "hypo"
      > meaning "under" and "krites" meaning"judgment."
      > I think it refers to the idea that the first actor –
      > legend callshim
      > Thespis – who dared to come out of the Mystery
      > center and portray a
      > god asan actor, was somehow guilty of a severe
      > offense and was therefore
      > designated:"under judgment."
      >
      >
      >
      > So, in the Age of the Consciousness Soul, each and
      > every oneof us is a
      >
      === message truncated ===


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    • tmasthenes13
      Dottie wrote plaintively, I ve heard pronouncements from all your intellectual buddies, of which you are one obviously but see yourself somehow separate from
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 1, 2006
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        Dottie wrote plaintively,

        I've heard pronouncements from all your 'intellectual'
        buddies, of which you are one obviously but see
        yourself somehow separate from them in some way, and
        you as well even before when you brought this up to me
        on the side. And what I've learned is that you cats
        are the ones doing most of the projection while
        postulizing it is the others. I've watched it over and
        over.

        __________________________

        Dear Dottie,

        A thousand pardons for my failure to recognize that you have as robust
        an Intellectual Soul as the rest of your male "intellectual buddies."
        I acknowledge now that you are "one of the guys," and perhaps it was
        a condescending sexism on my part that pressed me to focus only on
        your Sentient Soul proclivities. I'm sorry I excluded you from our club.

        Your plaintive response above touched my heart and brought up the
        memory picture of when we first met in person. That is of critical
        importance now for the new revelation I just received about you.

        We go back well over two years ago to the Spring of 2004 when Obadiah
        Harris, President of PRS (Philosophical Research Society) in Los
        Angeles, asked me to teach a series of ten weekly classes on Rudolf
        Steiner and Anthroposophy at this center of Manly Palmer Hall's life's
        work. (Please visit http://www.prs.org/ )

        So each Saturday morning, I would hold the class in the upper room, a
        2nd floor classroom adjacent to the famous occult library that Manly
        Hall had built in 1934. I don't know if you remember, Dottie, but for
        me, dominating the room was the presence of Helena Petrovna Blavatsky,
        because of the giant 6' by 4' portrait of her that hung on the wall in
        the far left front of the classroom.

        It was an imposing portrait and before every class, as I was preparing
        the blackboard, I would pause to acknowledge her presence and often
        weave her into the class topic and the discussion of anthroposophy. I
        was told that Manly Palmer Hall had a special attraction to HPB,
        because he himself actually believed that he was the reincarnation of
        her! And that is why this portrait held such a special place in this
        classroom, where Manly taught smaller classes when he wasn't lecturing
        in the big auditorium. (She died in 1891 in London; Manly was born ten
        years later in Canada.)

        And so, this powerful presence of HPB in a classroom where I was
        teaching about Rudolf Steiner and anthroposophy became a deep riddle
        that I felt I needed to experience over time before anything would
        reveal itself. Gradually, I began to focus on the terrible fate she
        had to endure, according to Rudolf Steiner, that fate being thrown
        into "occult imprisonment."

        ===================================================
        http://www.spiritualrealist.com/SPIRITUALREALISM/DeceptReligGrahamJackson/DeceptReligGJp10.asp

        He [Steiner] claims that she was put in "occult prison" by Western
        occult brotherhoods so that her clairvoyance would be thrown in on
        itself and hence illusory. Further, that in her later years she was
        abandoned by the Masters who had guided her, and instead guided by
        impersonators. … He says, "... the necessity of understanding the
        Christ-impulse was hidden from H.P. Blavatsky."

        =============================================

        And so I began to feel on occasion that I was perhaps part of the
        "anthroposophical prison outreach movement," only in this case, I was
        lecturing at an "occult penitentiary," a one-woman prison for HPB.
        (Or was it I who was really in prison? Hard to tell when there are no
        physical bars or stones around you!)

        At any rate, Dottie, back to our meeting. It was either my last or
        next to last class in May 2004 that you attended and afterwards you
        gave me your business card. Having recognized your name from the
        Steiner Internet since the year 2000, I was delighted and astonished
        to finally meet you in person.

        And now that I remember that meeting, I was also struck by the rather
        close physical resemblance between you and HPB. You are of the same
        body type and possess similar piercing eyes and knowing gaze that
        gestures out in both a needy and defiant way. You also seem to be
        "occultly imprisoned" at times yourself, Dottie, desperate to break
        out and achieve that inner occult freedom, so I think it would be
        worth your while looking into the life of HPB.

        Here's a short wiki bio of her:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_Petrovna_Blavatsky

        I must of course, ask you the $64,000 question: do you enjoy smoking
        cigars? ;=}

        Anyway, I do believe that you are on a path of initiation whereby you
        are focused very keenly on bringing out the Christology of
        anthroposophy, in a way that would work to redeem HPB from her occult
        imprisonment.

        Now I am not claiming that you are the actual reincarnation of HPB,
        but I am saying that you may express what Jeffrey Mishlove taught in
        that very same room at PRS at a seminar last year. He calls it
        "Synchronistic Archetypal Resonance." (SAR). Rather than actual
        reincarnation, a person may so identify with a past figure that he or
        she actually takes on the characteristics of that ancient figure and
        this resemblance includes family members as well. It may be more of a
        "sympathetic resonance" along the lines of what Rupert Sheldrake calls
        the "morphogenetic field," which is his amalgam of what we call the
        etheric and astral bodies and realms.

        Read this page to show how Jeffrey Mishlove dismisses the claim by Dr.
        Walt Semkiw, that he, Jeffrey, is the actual reincarnation of William
        James. Instead, Jeffrey invokes the more Jungianly palatable SAR
        principle to justify these family and past life resemblances some of
        which are quite startling.

        http://www.mishlove.com/WilliamJames/matches.htm

        So, Dottie, again, my apologies for somehow marginalizing you into the
        Sentient Soul realm. If, indeed you are HPB, I would be extremely
        embarrassed to know that I had denigrated your Intellectual Soul
        prowess. Damn, that Secret Doctrine was quite a book! But hey, what
        do you expect from a bunch of goofy guys with those silly and oft
        times hysterical female etheric bodies?

        Father Thom
      • Frank Smith
        ... 1 block up 12 upright lines and 13 blocks of 9 = 117 + 12= 129 = 12 = 3. He wrote mucho words between Hi Dottie and the blocks of lines, but you can
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 1, 2006
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          --- tmasthenes13 <TomBuoyed@...> wrote:

          >
          > Hi Dottie,

          |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| |||||||||
          ||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| |||||||||
          ||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| |||||||||

          1 block up 12 upright lines and 13 blocks of 9 = 117 +
          12= 129 = 12 = 3. He wrote mucho words between "Hi
          Dottie" and the blocks of lines, but you can ignore
          them (you probably already have) for the true meaning
          of what he wrote is coded in the blocks and shows that
          he is a threefold soul occultly imprisoned in a
          labyrinth of 14 ahrimanic blocks of phallic symbols.
          Uprightly,
          Frank


          Frank Thomas Smith
          http://SouthernCrossReview.org

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        • tmasthenes13
          ... Frank, Funny you should be refer to labyrinths as I have been on the phone all afternoon contacting people in LA who walk labyrinths, especially the
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 1, 2006
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            > ||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| |||||||||
            > ||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| |||||||||
            >
            > 1 block up 12 upright lines and 13 blocks of 9 = 117 +
            > 12= 129 = 12 = 3. He wrote mucho words between "Hi
            > Dottie" and the blocks of lines, but you can ignore
            > them (you probably already have) for the true meaning
            > of what he wrote is coded in the blocks and shows that
            > he is a threefold soul occultly imprisoned in a
            > labyrinth of 14 ahrimanic blocks of phallic symbols.

            > Uprightly,
            > Frank
            -------------------------
            Frank,

            Funny you should be refer to labyrinths as I have been on the phone
            all afternoon contacting people in LA who walk labyrinths, especially
            the Chartres Cathedral one.

            I am the impresario for a sacred music group, who live in Paris and
            play music, chant and sing on the Chartres Catherdral labyrinth as
            well as in many cathedrals throughout France.

            Check out their website:
            http://www.naturalchant.com/

            Click on their Chartres Cathedral CD to hear 3 excerpts.

            Joseph Rowe and Catherina Braslavsky are coming to LA to play Oct. 14
            & 15. I have arranged for them to play the 14th at the Annie Besant
            Theosophical Lodge in the Hollywood Hills and then Sunday at the
            Anthroposophical Center of LA in Old Town Pasadena.

            I met Joseph 30 years ago this month when I attended my very first
            ever Steiner study group in Austin, TX. He is native Texan but an
            exepert in playing the oud, having been taught by Hamza El Din.

            I figure you can't make the drive up from Buenos Aires, but what they
            hey, I'll send you the Press release here:

            --------------------------------




            SACRED ANCIENT MUSIC CONCERTS FOR INTER-FAITH PEACE

            Los Angeles, CA September 19, 2006 -- DIRECT FROM PARIS in their Los
            Angeles premiere, Catherine Braslavsky and Joseph Rowe will perform
            "FROM JERUSALEM TO CORDOBA --- a Voyage in Time, Space and Religions
            Through Chant, Music, and Texts" in two performances, Saturday, Oct.
            14, in the Hollywood Hills and on Sunday, Oct. 15 in Old Town Pasadena.

            Taking part in the DANIEL PEARL WORLD MUSIC DAYS network of concerts
            to promote inter-faith peace, Joseph and Catherine celebrate the
            religious and mystical traditions of the Mediterranean, from ancient
            Judaism and Paganism, to medieval Christianity and Islam. Catherine
            chants and sings ancient and original compositions in Hebrew, Arabic,
            Latin, Greek, Aramaic, and Occitan while Joseph sings and provides
            Middle Eastern percussion, plays oud, Tibetan bowls, Indian tampura,
            African mbira. He also narrates texts by Meister Eckhart, Ibn 'Arabi,
            Yehuda Halevi, and Hildegarde of Bingen.

            The texts allude not only to beautiful realities but also to monstrous
            ones, such as persecution and massacres in the name of religion, and
            the long history of today's religious conflicts. But this strikingly
            contemporary performance, with its sacred intention, opens up the
            possibility of inter-faith dialogue among the religions of the
            "children of Abraham" by inspiring the audience to glimpse the
            mystical sense of unity of all these religions --- yet a unity that
            equally inspires reverence for their differences.

            Presented by C3, The CENTER FOR CONSCIOUS CREATIVITY,
            http://www.consciouscreativity.com/ THE SATURDAY, OCT. 14 performance
            begins at 7:30 PM at the Annie Besant Lodge, 2560 N. Beachwood Dr.,
            Los Angeles, CA 90068 (a mile north of the Gower/Beachwood exit on the
            101). Tickets $15 at the door. Street parking only.

            The SUNDAY, OCT. 15 performance begins at 4:00 PM at the
            Anthroposophical Society of LA Branch building, 110 Martin Alley,
            Pasadena, CA 91105. (2 blocks south of W. Colorado Blvd., just off
            Delacey Ave.) Tickets $15 at the door. Adjacent parking garage.
            Visit the website at http://www.naturalchant.com/


            ###
          • dottie zold
            Well, if I was the reincarnation of Helena then I imagine, according to your understanding of her later incarnation, that would make me Manly P. Hall.
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 1, 2006
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              Well, if I was the reincarnation of Helena then I
              imagine, according to your understanding of her later
              incarnation, that would make me Manly P. Hall.
              Interesting Tom.

              Dottie

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            • tmasthenes13
              ... ========================= Well, Dottie, as HPB, you could have done a lot worse than MPH, don t you think? ;=) But you bring up an interesting issue that
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 2, 2006
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                --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
                <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                >
                > Well, if I was the reincarnation of Helena then I
                > imagine, according to your understanding of her later
                > incarnation, that would make me Manly P. Hall.
                > Interesting Tom.
                >
                =========================

                Well, Dottie, as HPB, you could have done a lot worse than MPH, don't
                you think? ;=)

                But you bring up an interesting issue that characterizes our Western
                mind-set about reincarnation. We worship the separate individuality so
                much that we refuse to consider the possibility that a self might
                split off or clone and could be incarnated in two or more bodies
                simultaneously.

                I mean we don't have a problem believing that identical physical twins
                would house two different spiritual individualities; but we choke on
                the reverse idea: that the same spiritual individuality could clone
                itself and incarnate in two separate physical bodies at the same time.

                Yet there are people who believe that you as HPB could have bifurcated
                to become both MPH and DZ at the same time.

                (Which reminds me: I need to ask Obadiah Harris at PRS whether Manly
                liked cigars or not. You still didn't answer whether you like cigars
                or not, though. You know Dottie, it's these "little things" that make
                or break a reincarnation identification! Helena did love her cigars!)

                Tom
              • dottie zold
                Hi Tom, I don t like to play spiritual science Tom. It s not my thing. Maybe you can find someone else to play along. Nor do I like to spit three times to the
                Message 7 of 9 , Oct 2, 2006
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                  Hi Tom,

                  I don't like to play spiritual science Tom. It's not
                  my thing. Maybe you can find someone else to play
                  along. Nor do I like to spit three times to the left
                  to ward off the enemy as suggested by Valentin in
                  Meditations on the Tarot.

                  But, yeah, playing spiritual science and throwing all
                  kinds of mush into the soup is not what I am
                  interested in. I love Hungarian Goulash but that's
                  because it has some substance.

                  Best,
                  Dottie


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                • Mike T
                  Hi Dottie, THought I d just comment here - I love hungarian Goulash soup too. I once found a great restaurant somewhere in Germany; but on my trips back, could
                  Message 8 of 9 , Oct 2, 2006
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                    Hi Dottie,
                    THought I'd just comment here - I love hungarian Goulash soup too. I once
                    found a great restaurant somewhere in Germany; but on my trips back, could
                    never remember where it was. Used to go to different restaurants on each
                    trip trying the Goulash soup but was never the same. There is a German
                    restaurant where I live (I have to travel a way to get to it) and I go there
                    not only because it has the ambience of Germany about ti, and the food is
                    great; but in the main for its Goulash Soup. So we have this second thing in
                    common. And oh I don't smoke, but if I did, I think only cigars; so maybe I
                    was Madame B's driver or bag carrier or something.

                    Cheers,
                    M



                    >From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
                    >Reply-To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Dottie as HPB
                    >Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 07:39:59 -0700 (PDT)
                    >
                    >Hi Tom,
                    >
                    >I don't like to play spiritual science Tom. It's not
                    >my thing. Maybe you can find someone else to play
                    >along. Nor do I like to spit three times to the left
                    >to ward off the enemy as suggested by Valentin in
                    >Meditations on the Tarot.
                    >
                    >But, yeah, playing spiritual science and throwing all
                    >kinds of mush into the soup is not what I am
                    >interested in. I love Hungarian Goulash but that's
                    >because it has some substance.
                    >
                    >Best,
                    >Dottie
                    >
                    >
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