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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] What is Anthroposophical Devotion?

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  • dottie zold
    Michael, do you have a page number for these quotes? It s hard to see what you are looking at with these quotes that are isolated like this. Do you have the
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 28, 2006
      Michael, do you have a page number for these quotes?
      It's hard to see what you are looking at with these
      quotes that are isolated like this. Do you have the
      book?

      My thoughts on devotion is that it is an inward
      gesture and I experience it as Love in the world. I
      don't experience it as ' a devotion to a thing or a
      being' or whathaveyou. For me its an experience of
      Love and Grace when looking out at life and also when
      relating with people and at times for supersensible
      truths that meet with our thinkings and ponderings on
      things.

      I don't understand when you say 'What is
      Anthroposophical Devotion? I never heard of such a
      thing. Or maybe it is in the way you ask the question
      that seems that there seems to be some type of
      connotation of obedience or something. Which would be
      the opposite of any true striving in Rudolf STeiner's
      work as I understand it to be. Now, some of his
      students might talk of it and take it in terms of
      their own understandings but they would not be mine
      nor have I understood them to be Rudolf Steiners. As
      best as I can understand.

      All good things,
      Dottie

      --- tvboycott <mkowalski@...> wrote:

      > To all,
      >
      > How do we understand this term from an
      > Anthroposophical point of view?
      >
      > Are there some examples to share?
      >
      > I read this in How to know higher worlds:
      >
      > "...one knows that every feeling of true devotion
      > unfolded in the soul produces an inner strength or
      > force that sooner or later leads to knowledge."
      >
      > as well as:
      >
      > "...Whoever possesses an innate tendency toward
      > feelings
      > of devotion, or has been lucky enough to receive an
      > education that cultivated those feelings, is well
      > prepared in
      > later life to seek the way to higher knowledge.
      > Those who
      > do not bring this preparation with them will have to
      > work
      > at developing this devotional mood with vigorous
      > self-discipline;
      > if not, they will encounter difficulties after
      > taking
      > only the first few steps on the path of knowledge.
      > In our
      > time it is particularly important to focus complete
      > attention
      > on this point. Our civilization is more inclined to
      > criticize,
      > judge, and condemn than to feel devotion and
      > selfless veneration.
      > Our children criticize far more than they respect or
      > revere. But just as surely as every feeling of
      > devotion and
      > reverence nurtures the soul's powers for higher
      > knowledge,
      > so every act of criticism and judgment drives these
      > powers away."
      >
      > and then again this:
      >
      > "This practice should not
      > remain simply an outer rule of life, but must take
      > hold of
      > the innermost part of the soul. It lies in our hands
      > to perfect
      > ourselves and gradually transform ourselves
      > completely.
      > But this transformation must take place in our
      > innermost depths, in our thinking. Showing respect
      > outwardly
      > in our relations with other beings is not enough;
      > we must carry this respect into our thoughts.
      > Therefore we must begin our inner schooling by
      > bringing
      > devotion into our thought life. We must guard
      > against
      > disrespectful, disparaging, and criticizing
      > thoughts. We
      > must try to practice reverence and devotion in our
      > thinking
      > at all times."
      >
      > Where does the separation occur from feeling
      > devotion to thinking
      > devotion?
      >
      > Thanks,
      >
      > Michael
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


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    • tvboycott
      ... The quotes are taken from pages 18 - 20. There are in the section describing the Path of Reverence . ... Thank you. ... What I was thinking when I
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 28, 2006
        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
        <dottie_z@...> wrote:
        >
        > Michael, do you have a page number for these quotes?
        > It's hard to see what you are looking at with these
        > quotes that are isolated like this. Do you have the
        > book?
        >
        The quotes are taken from pages 18 - 20. There are in the section
        describing the "Path of Reverence".


        > My thoughts on devotion is that it is an inward
        > gesture and I experience it as Love in the world. I
        > don't experience it as ' a devotion to a thing or a
        > being' or whathaveyou. For me its an experience of
        > Love and Grace when looking out at life and also when
        > relating with people and at times for supersensible
        > truths that meet with our thinkings and ponderings on
        > things.

        Thank you.

        > I don't understand when you say 'What is
        > Anthroposophical Devotion? I never heard of such a
        > thing. Or maybe it is in the way you ask the question
        > that seems that there seems to be some type of
        > connotation of obedience or something. Which would be
        > the opposite of any true striving in Rudolf STeiner's
        > work as I understand it to be. Now, some of his
        > students might talk of it and take it in terms of
        > their own understandings but they would not be mine
        > nor have I understood them to be Rudolf Steiners. As
        > best as I can understand.
        >

        What I was thinking when I constructed the question was how is the
        word used in Anthroposophical circles.

        How did Steiner use it?

        How do other authors use it?

        How do we all use it?

        There is a rich tapestry and tradition behind words like Devotion,
        Love, Faith, Grace and Hope and I enjoy conversations that reveal
        what others see in these ideas.

        Thanks,

        Michael
      • Joel Wendt
        Dear Michael, As part of the Water Trial, we don t just set aside the reactive feelings, but we learn how to create in the soul cultivated feelings. We create
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 28, 2006
          Dear Michael,

          "As part of the Water Trial, we don't just set aside the reactive
          feelings, but we learn how to create in the soul cultivated feelings. We
          create freely chosen cultivated moods of soul - that is intended
          feelings of reverence, wonder and so forth, which then have a salutary
          effect on the thought content that is to be produced according to where
          we let our attention come to rest. This is an example of where the
          exercises bear fruit. If we have practiced these exercises, this will
          be a great help when we then need to apply the newly learned ability to
          form cultivated moods of soul, as a prelude and foundation for thinking
          with someone in a new way.

          "With a cultivated feeling we transform the soul-soil from which the
          thought is born and then flowers (which is also why the ideal is
          expressed as: thinking with the heart)."


          joel
          http://ipwebdev.com/hermit/samod.html
          tv
          >
          >
          >
          > Where does the separation occur from feeling devotion to thinking
          > devotion?
          >
          > Thanks,
          >
          > Michael
          >
          >
        • tvboycott
          Thank you Joel. I read your essay and enjoyed and connected with it. I will be thinking about it more this weekend I am sure. I thought I might share a
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 29, 2006
            Thank you Joel. I read your essay and enjoyed and connected with
            it. I will be thinking about it more this weekend I am sure.

            I thought I might share a connection that seemed obvious to me.

            "Steiner also calls this attachment to our thought content, in
            certain circumstances: being captured by the concept. It can be a
            savage inner struggle - this Air Trial - to learn to forcefully set
            aside our favorite ideas of the world, a seemingly negative artistic
            act, sometimes taking months to accomplish. At the same time, their
            essential nature does not disappear, for the very same qualitative
            aspects of our true nature - our true i-AM - can once again call them
            forth. Thought does not disappear, it only becomes latent and goes
            into a kind of pralaya. The will-in-thinking is strengthened by this
            act of renunciation, and when we choose to think again concerning
            this same object of our thought, the penetrating new powers of the
            will-in-thinking (attention and intention) can call forth from this
            pralaya an ever deeper understanding of the underlying meaning and
            truth of that about which we have chosen to think (sorry again, these
            long sentences just have their way with me far too much).
            "

            This rang a bell with advice for working with children of Sanguine
            type. It is from a lecture "The Four Temperaments" by Rudolf
            Steiner. The lecture can be found at the following link:

            http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/FourTemps/ForTem_index.html

            The advice he gave was, "We should see to it that the sanguine child
            is exposed to a variety of things in which he has shown a deeper
            interest. These things should be allowed to speak to him, to have an
            effect upon him. They should then be withdrawn, so that the child's
            interest in them will intensify; then they may be restored. "


            Thanks again Joel,

            Michael
          • dottie zold
            Never surprises me ever. Dottie ... set ... artistic ... their ... them ... this ... this ... these ... child ... an ... child s
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 29, 2006
              Never surprises me ever.

              Dottie

              >
              > Thank you Joel. I read your essay and enjoyed and connected with
              > it. I will be thinking about it more this weekend I am sure.
              >
              > I thought I might share a connection that seemed obvious to me.
              >
              > "Steiner also calls this attachment to our thought content, in
              > certain circumstances: being captured by the concept. It can be a
              > savage inner struggle - this Air Trial - to learn to forcefully
              set
              > aside our favorite ideas of the world, a seemingly negative
              artistic
              > act, sometimes taking months to accomplish. At the same time,
              their
              > essential nature does not disappear, for the very same qualitative
              > aspects of our true nature - our true i-AM - can once again call
              them
              > forth. Thought does not disappear, it only becomes latent and goes
              > into a kind of pralaya. The will-in-thinking is strengthened by
              this
              > act of renunciation, and when we choose to think again concerning
              > this same object of our thought, the penetrating new powers of the
              > will-in-thinking (attention and intention) can call forth from
              this
              > pralaya an ever deeper understanding of the underlying meaning and
              > truth of that about which we have chosen to think (sorry again,
              these
              > long sentences just have their way with me far too much).
              > "
              >
              > This rang a bell with advice for working with children of Sanguine
              > type. It is from a lecture "The Four Temperaments" by Rudolf
              > Steiner. The lecture can be found at the following link:
              >
              > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/FourTemps/ForTem_index.html
              >
              > The advice he gave was, "We should see to it that the sanguine
              child
              > is exposed to a variety of things in which he has shown a deeper
              > interest. These things should be allowed to speak to him, to have
              an
              > effect upon him. They should then be withdrawn, so that the
              child's
              > interest in them will intensify; then they may be restored. "
              >
              >
              > Thanks again Joel,
              >
              > Michael
              >
            • tvboycott
              Good Morning All, ... In your essay I found a reminder of working with my own Karma. My family was trying to get out the door, into the car and onto an event.
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 2, 2006
                Good Morning All,

                > >
                > > Thank you Joel. I read your essay and enjoyed and connected with
                > > it. I will be thinking about it more this weekend I am sure.

                In your essay I found a reminder of working with my own Karma.

                My family was trying to get out the door, into the car and onto an
                event. I was holding my youngest, Charlotte, and Frances was already
                on the front porch. My wife, Michele, came down the stairs and
                informed us all that she had to brush her teeth and wash her face.

                Arrrrrrrrghhhhh! How dare she! She had initiated this mad dash 15
                minutes ago by saying, "Let's go." This before a change of clothes
                and a phone call she decided she had to make. Arrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhh!

                Then I was thinking why this bothers me. Just the thought of going
                inside myself to find out why this annoying, but well known habit, of
                dragging out the moment of departure still bothered me.

                It didn't click then, but the activity did bring peace. At some
                point later I realized, I'm a procrastinator. I has already known
                that this was something I need to work on, but here is a reminder.

                Thanks Joel,

                Michael
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