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RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Spiritual Science from a slightly different angle.

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  • dottie zold
    I was thinking how funny it is that the critics in the hole will blame Steiner if he says we should be color blind and nationality blind : he s trying to blot
    Message 1 of 104 , Sep 3, 2006
      I was thinking how funny it is that the critics in the
      hole will blame Steiner if he says we should be color
      blind and nationality blind : he's trying to blot them
      out. Yet on the other hand if he does speak of any
      race or nation he is being racist. I mean that's the
      illogicalness of the argument from Staudenamaier and
      the hole.

      I remember Staudenmaier claiming that because
      Jacobowski wanted to assimilate, look past his
      cultural 'I am a Jew' heritage, than he was racist
      against his own people. I mean the absolute ignorance
      of Staudenamiers thinking is astounding. I mean how
      does someone get to be so smart intellectually but
      miss out on the little things like 'relationship' to a
      thing. I mean where's the human relationship to
      understanding what is being said when one says' I
      think we should look past our own specific heritage
      and join the human heritage? Depending what side of
      the argument you fall on is how Staudenmaier will
      decide; nothing to do with humanity and all to do with
      this twisted non related thinking.


      p.s. I was listening into Diana over at the hole and
      she was talking about the fact that most people think
      of themselves made up of spirit and soul. I thought
      that interesting because it seems that if one wants to
      go further than just saying 'yeah I think there is
      spirit and soul', I mean actually think about what
      that means, one would find oneself greatly served by
      the works of Rudolf Steiner. But for non self
      reflecting people its easier to judge someone elses
      point of view than to actually think of one of their


      --- dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

      > Hi Mike,
      > I think that's the point Mike: anthroposophy IS on
      > the
      > same footing and can't consider itself not to be.
      > That
      > is what Dr. Steiner says in his book The
      > Anthroposophical Movement.
      > I think on this list, with Tarjei and a few others
      > it
      > was really and is really important that we do not
      > allow our human thinking that can be prejudiced in
      > many ways to speak for Rudolf Steiner's work. This
      > list was forged to make clear that distinction in
      > some
      > ways it seems. So, when you said something about
      > 'go
      > back to your own country' to some who want to make
      > problems it can seem that you are being prejudiced.
      > In
      > the US everyone is so ready for the race card that
      > just about anything can be considered racist.
      > It's also about language I have found. Today when I
      > speak I usually leave out whether it was a white man
      > or a black man or whathaveyou. I have to actually be
      > very conscientious of doing so because I can
      > realize,
      > or have realized within me the question 'why am I
      > differentiating what color the man was or what
      > country
      > he is from'. That is the question that was posed to
      > myself about five or so years ago. And in that I
      > find
      > myself walking Michael's path. I find people almost
      > waiting to find out 'was he black or white or
      > russian
      > or mexican'. It's actually really interesting to
      > leave
      > it out knowing it doesn't matter unless of course
      > you
      > are using it for a description of a person you are
      > looking for, or if you want to show some type of
      > relations from one to the other for enlightment
      > purposes.
      > So, its like if instead of saying the 'third rate
      > gurus from India' you could've said the third rate
      > gurus lining the streets. It doesn't really matter
      > in
      > truth where they came from just that they are
      > exploiting others. Now someone wanting to make
      > trouble
      > could've said 'oh yeah, is it the color of the skin
      > of
      > those gurus that bother you' and you get to respond,
      > 'hey, they show themselves to be gurus that are
      > exploiting people, does it matter what country they
      > came from'? It takes time to get the race out of the
      > coversation or the country out of the conversation,
      > it
      > really does. But I think it a worthy one.
      > And for me I align with Tarjei, although it can be
      > kinda tight, when he will speak up for a color blind
      > society, I think that is in keeping with our
      > teacher.
      > To me when Rudolf Steiner spoke on race it was to do
      > so from a cultural understanding and not something
      > to
      > do with the color of his skin. The critics over
      > there
      > in the hole can find a quote here and there but
      > that's about it. They ignore the absolute mountains
      > of
      > material speaking to the necessity for a color blind
      > society and that we should not be alarmed that this
      > would take away their different capacities. I just
      > came across this very thing in How To Know Higher
      > Worlds: in order for man to move forward he must
      > take
      > nationality and race out of the equation. That is
      > what
      > appealed to me having grown up in a very racist
      > society here in America.
      > But again I do want to say that it is really
      > important
      > we get away from this we and them: Rudolf Steiner
      > speaks of this explicitely in The Anthroposophical
      > Movement of 1923.
      > All good things to you Mike,
      > Dottie
      > --- Mike T <leosun_75@...> wrote:
      > > If you continue to want to heckle people they will
      > > all leave. Some thoughts
      > > don't have to be unprejudiced. Anthroposophy is
      > not
      > > on equal footing with
      > > the rest and you know that and I shouldn't have to
      > > defend it to someone who
      > > considers themselves as an Anthroposophist.
      > >
      > > I wonder what you convuluted mind will come up
      > with
      > > next.
      > > Miek T
      > >
      > >
      > > >From: Tarjei Straume <straume@...>
      > > >Reply-To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      > > >To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      > > >Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Spiritual
      > > Science from a slightly
      > > >different angle.
      > > >Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2006 23:29:52 +0200
      > > >
      > > >At 22:11 01.09.2006, you wrote:
      > > >
      > > > >The Light (from Dornach) always attracts the
      > > flies. Each time I went
      > > > >to Dornach, I would see these third rate Indian
      > > Holinessess and
      > > > >Gurus's peddling their trade through posters on
      > > Bill Boards in
      > > > >Dornach. I always thought - why don't they go
      > > back to India. You can
      > > > >tell I have nothing but distain for these
      > people.
      > > >
      > > >In that case, anthroposophists and theosophists
      > in
      > > India of European
      > > >origin should go back to Europe and stop peddling
      > > their
      > > >Western-infected occultism in Asia. Everybody
      > > should go back to where
      > > >they came from, and if they don't know where that
      > > is (or was), they
      > > >should check out where their ancestors came from
      > > and go there.
      > > >Reverse migrations. All white Americans go back
      > to
      > > Europe, all blacks
      > > >go back to Africa, all Arab Muslims go back to
      > > Pakistan and
      > > >Afghanistan, white South Africans to Holland and
      > > the UK, and
      > > >Scandinavians would eventually head for Northern
      > > India whence they
      > > >once came before all that ice began to melt up
      > here
      > > in the North. And
      > > >those who don't know where they came from should
      > be
      > > confined to
      > > >provisionary camps until they learn to refresh
      > > their cosmic memories.
      > > >After that, we can all sit down in the mud and
      > > express mutual distain
      > > >just for fun, playing spiders, flies, wasps,
      > ants,
      > > mosquitos, and
      > > >cockroaches.
      > > >
      > > >Tarjei.
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Research and compare new cars side by side at
      > > carpoint.com.au
      > >
      > >
      > >
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    • oealan
      ... I am not sure if I want to read on :( :( Love Adrian ... Hello Adrian. Personally, between translations and the time period, I wouldn t put any merit to
      Message 104 of 104 , Sep 13, 2006
        >>> Having children `at our disposal for demonstration'!!!!!

        I am not sure if I want to read on :( :(

        Love Adrian


        Hello Adrian. Personally, between translations and the time period, I
        wouldn't put any merit to the words "at our disposal". Could be as
        well you're simply not interested in reading on, which is fine of

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