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Re: Humility Revisited

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  • Tarjei Straume
    ... No, but neither did the Biblical authors. Quoting dusty Bible verses in lieu of self-dependent thinking is fundy-babble. Quoting Steiner in the same way is
    Message 1 of 21 , Jul 30 8:36 PM
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      Hale wrote:

      >Did Steiner really express fundamentalist babble on the same level
      >as today's modern Christian denominations?

      No, but neither did the Biblical authors. Quoting dusty Bible verses
      in lieu of self-dependent thinking is fundy-babble. Quoting Steiner
      in the same way is anthro-babble. That's how constipation occurs.

      Tarjei
    • holderlin66
      Tarjei Straume wrote: That was the Devil in me speaking, but at least I m spiritual enough to cognize it and man enough to admit it. Besides, the Devil speaks
      Message 2 of 21 , Jul 30 9:21 PM
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        Tarjei Straume wrote:

        That was the Devil in me speaking, but at least I'm spiritual enough
        to cognize it and man enough to admit it. Besides, the Devil speaks
        truth, too.

        Tarjei

        "....he was an agnostic in exactly the same sense that my own father
        was. My father always thought that the story of Jesus Christ was
        truly "the greatest story ever told", and what the Mystery of
        Golgotha is concerned, he was deeply impressed with how he handled
        his arrest by the Romans and his responses to Pontius Pilate, and
        his spirit of total forgiveness, turning the other cheek etc. But he
        also emphasized that when it came to Christ rising from the dead,
        this was something people had made up in order to have something to
        believe in.

        " Curiously, my anthro-Christian mother, whom Brother Hale has shown
        a great deal of interest, spent a lifetime trying to "convert" my
        father to a spiritual worldview, kept arguing to convince him even
        years and years after their divorce in 1960, all the time until his
        death in 1988. And she wasn't making much sense, because my father
        kept telling me that she was babbling about "all those risen
        Christ-bodies throughout the Zodiac", and that "in her world, there
        are very many Christ-bodies and cosmoses" and it made no sense to
        him whatsoever.

        " So Brother Hale is absolutely right: my mother babbled and rattled
        anthro-talk just like he's trying to do. But none of this could
        convince a typical "Christ-denier" like my father. She didn't try to
        convince anyone else either;"

        Bradford comments;

        There could be a typical sentient soul response to the sharp, very
        sharp perception that Mr. Hale brought in the heat of things, about
        Tarjei's understanding and relation as a go between, between his
        father, mother and Ma's rag, Anthroposophy. But Tarjei, in this
        instance, chose the route of the Consciousness Soul to respond in
        kind. The above is a rich heroic example of how the Consciousness
        soul defuses its defenses and raises the collective insights to a
        new level of biographical warmth. Doesn't mean the sting is any less
        or that the humor that followed was dull. Rather this is what always
        makes me love Tarjei.

        It is not the sentient soul love of having some dupe defend you
        because you are always a passionate, helium headed and an emotional
        sentient soul fool and a little flattery, fawning, adulation and
        syruppy sweet insincerity, wink, wink and nod, nod, will get someone
        to side with you, once you sidle up and worm your way into the cheap
        part of their souls...

        No the part that I have always loved about this list and about
        Tarjei and about Frank...Because some very strong words were used
        about Frank as well, and we usually shoot the messenger and the ones
        who shoot the messenger and incite the mob the loudest are those who
        fear that someone might be able to see there inherent snake like
        attitudes. The difference is, that I had a chance to look at the
        picture of Diana....and she is a far less dangerous snake in her
        dullness than having a soul who can pal up to a sympathetic heart
        and slowly stir up a mob with rich unconscious hidden sentient
        cheerleading. You know that one who yells, "Crucify Him" at a tender
        moment when Pilate and Caiaphas are tensely holding the destiny of
        Earth and mankind on tenterhooks.

        It has been a lesson in watching Tarjei's behavior and how Joel has
        attempted to generally remain Joel without the usual sentient
        cheerleaders taking some sort of misunderstood side in a silly and
        worthless flame war about issues that really come right down to what
        it takes in terms of subjective, selfish stimulation for people to
        enjoy the world of ideas, the love of mixed sentient egotism or to
        begin treating their own thinking and the idea world with real
        interest. And that means as well interest in how questions are spun
        away from reality and how questions are lifted into Consciousness
        Soul interest.

        These events that we undergo on this little island of thought here
        are extremely potent, just because they are made of raw thought,
        emotion and opinion. They are more potent and more filled with
        strange future bearing imagery just because they are mere, raw
        thought, and thinking together both in veiled and naked review. It
        is like you were to pass over a town with houses and hear in our
        souls all the squirming thoughts and antipathies and sympathies of
        the town. The phony devout prayers, the thoughts of poverty, lack of
        wealth, desires for new or better furniture or the strange sound of
        open blessing to all human beings. But the curious density of all
        this is that there will be a moment in our karma, I can tell you
        flatly, that we will and are producing in these dialogues, that will
        prepare the ground for just such a hanging, just such a kind of
        stoning...and just such a kind of image, that is sure as stone to
        arise in the physical at some future time. And warm honesty,
        sincerity and interest and above all else the opportunity for
        exploration that at some time in the future will incarnate this very
        mix as a real physical dynamic, some place in the future.

        Were we honest with each other? That is the beauty of it isn't it?
        Did we locate a real source of Treachery that existed and set a
        standard from the bickering of the first Anthro-society divisions?
        We did. We hit upon something very important that is written into
        the opposing powers ability to attack us from within. And from
        within our honesty and our dishonesty and our power trips were
        everything that assaulted the personalities that took the helm after
        Steiner left. They took the helm of the Michael vessel and cracked
        it just as I described in scyalla and charybdis. And such images
        with our dealings await us, because we either have had karma
        together on the Earth before or we are stirring the ethers, as Danny
        used to say. And in future such a suspicious and tense type of drama
        might bring us all face to face.

        Today, right with this referenced post, Tarjei really made me proud
        of his magnanimous, munificent, big-hearted and knightly ability to
        take the sting out of our abrupt and sharp tongued Mr. Hale. I
        thrive on knowing just how tough and courageous it is to see the
        truth in what someone has blurted out and not become defensive but
        marvel at the facts of truth.

        Sometimes I marvel how spin works. If we focus say on the numbers of
        murdered in Russia and compare them to the Holocaust we end up not
        mentioning how those dates just at the breaking years of the 1930's
        were frought with all out opposing power attacks aimed at disrupting
        the dawning Christ Event, we skip that, we literally avoid it, and
        instead we spin our way to some trivial insight as to where I got
        those numbers from and what I was looking for and how dare I read
        such and such an insight. That particular paragraph was well wrought
        but what we got out of it, was not the massive numbers or the dates
        where the Christ Event was breaking through, NOPE, we take the
        trivial, deceptive side road off the essential and feel that OH YES,
        now we understand meaning. NOT! Marvelling at the facts of truth,
        sharing it in your own way, this is humility and it can be done a
        thousand different ways if you are a sincere Michael student.

        A sense of the sincerity of striving is indeed what it takes to be a
        true Anthro. But also not to be swayed when someone offers you two
        day old candy and knows you'll be their temporary defender and
        bestest, bestest friend forever, and get you to support the lynch
        mob paradigms and slide over someones undeveloped selfishness so
        they will feel less taken aback. Anthros and many on this list spin
        their own little shy power agendas and at the drop of hat hide
        behind some opinion which they certainly haven't thought through.
        And they are seriously ashamed because they haven't thought things
        through, are too lazy or unconscious to admit that they don't
        understand Anthro terminology and would prefer to blame their
        incapacities on everyone else.

        Me, I have terrible faults. I am truly arrogant with immense pride
        that this Dr. Steiner stood for knowledge, wisdom and superior
        university training, that outshines nearly everyone in the whole
        world and I go overboard with my joy and pride in the depth of
        untold wisdom that he offered. Too much sugar? Well there have been
        times in my biography where I just let it all sink away. Truly.
        Worked in some invisible job, enjoyed my invisibility, totally
        enjoyed the company of lots of women and enjoyed just going to work
        regularly and coming home to my little shack and knowing I didn't
        have to do anything but what I felt like doing. I let the amazing
        thoughts sink away for years, and then of themselves they began once
        more to surface, rise up and shimmer again..

        I apologize for my arrogance and pride and mostly I apologize for
        the poetic faults that love to glimmer the shimmerings behind the
        words and thoughts of what interests me and when I read or write I
        am interested in a kind of rich human honesty. Not sentimental
        warmth, although that is Frank's job on this list and Tarjei
        certainly does a good awe shucks job at it as well.

        I often read deeper and deeper layers of intuition, almost like
        meditation into deeper layers and I find the trails of thought take
        me places. There is in me some faulty poetic karmic undercurrents
        and kinks that force me to see things a little differently. There
        are inner places that I enjoy going especially when the substance of
        Spiritual Science is my companion along the way. Spiritual Science
        teaches me things and I rather admire those who lift original
        perspectives up where my inner eye can see them more clearly. I
        never enjoyed locker room gossip and I know that dozens prefer and
        feel alive in locker room gossip.

        I am pretty familiar with common petty, sentimental and
        dysfunctional souls, they are everywhere and everywhere as well are
        these same striving human beings who either would love to know that
        there is something great, true and noble out there or in the same
        person thrust it away with scoffing denial and hate. They begin to
        hate you and hate the fact that you learn to see the layers of
        dysfunction as well as the layers of depth in those around you. It
        really upsets people and that is when they try to spin, lie and
        cover over their knowledge of how slithery we all are or how
        incredibly noble we all are.
      • Steve Hale
        ... Well, you ve quoted one heap of a whole lot more of Steiner s anthro- babble than I ever will hope to achieve in this lifetime, so your eyes must be dark
        Message 3 of 21 , Jul 30 10:21 PM
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          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Tarjei Straume
          <hisholiness@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hale wrote:
          >
          > >Did Steiner really express fundamentalist babble on the same level
          > >as today's modern Christian denominations?
          >
          > No, but neither did the Biblical authors. Quoting dusty Bible verses
          > in lieu of self-dependent thinking is fundy-babble. Quoting Steiner
          > in the same way is anthro-babble. That's how constipation occurs.
          >
          > Tarjei

          Well, you've quoted one heap of a whole lot more of Steiner's anthro-
          babble than I ever will hope to achieve in this lifetime, so your eyes
          must be dark brown by now.

          Steve
        • Tarjei Straume
          ... The explanation for this is elementary, Brother Steve, elementary. I apply the same method to all fundamentalistically inclined patients. All I need is
          Message 4 of 21 , Jul 30 10:53 PM
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            Steve Hale wrote:

            >Well, you've quoted one heap of a whole lot more of Steiner's
            >anthro-babble than I ever will hope to achieve in this lifetime, so
            >your eyes must be dark brown by now.

            The explanation for this is elementary, Brother Steve, elementary. I
            apply the same method to all fundamentalistically inclined patients.
            All I need is access to their Scripture.

            On church-theologians, I always apply quotes from the Bible with
            book, chapter and verse, because it's the only language they
            understand, and the only poison or antidote that may work. And I
            always succeed in establishing that they won't swallow their own
            medicine. Here is one of my favorites:

            "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create
            evil: I the LORD do all these things." Isaiah 45:7 (They can't handle
            that God creates evil, because he's supposed to hate it.)

            On anthro-fundies, I apply Doctor-quotes with course-titles,
            lecture-numbers, GA-numbers, cities, and dates. And again, it's a joy
            to repeat those quotes that the Doctor-fundies have most trouble
            swallowing, such as that piece from "Love and its Meaning in the
            World" where he says that a person who is conpletely ignorant about
            Christ is a true Christian if he understands the nature of love.

            What do these two quotes have in common, from Isaiah and the Doctor?
            They both crush theologies and doctrines, pulverize them. The idea
            that God creates evil, destroys Christian theology, and the idea that
            love alone makes a true Christian, destroys *your* anthro-doctrine
            about Jewish Christ-denial.

            Shalom,

            Brother Tarjei
          • Steve Hale
            ... that ... And what, pray tell, anthro-doctrine of Jewish Christ-denial am I referring to? If you mean the facts of such a denial and its modern-day
            Message 5 of 21 , Jul 30 11:12 PM
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              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Tarjei Straume
              <hisholiness@...> wrote:
              >The idea
              > that God creates evil, destroys Christian theology, and the idea
              that
              > love alone makes a true Christian, destroys *your* anthro-doctrine
              > about Jewish Christ-denial.
              >
              > Shalom,
              >
              > Brother Tarjei

              And what, pray tell, anthro-doctrine of Jewish Christ-denial am I
              referring to? If you mean the facts of such a denial and its
              modern-day perpetuation, this is a matter that is self-evident,
              although I don't hold it against anyone for believing as they
              choose. As for evil, it is of the Logos, and meant to be dealt with
              conscientiously as we head into the manichean era.

              Steve
            • elfuncle
              ... You re dodging the issue, focusing instead on trying to keep track of your anthro-doctrines. Now take your prescription. ... What a person happens to
              Message 6 of 21 , Jul 30 11:40 PM
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                Steve Hale wrote:

                > And what, pray tell, anthro-doctrine of Jewish Christ-denial am I
                > referring to?

                You're dodging the issue, focusing instead on trying to keep track
                of your anthro-doctrines. Now take your prescription.

                > If you mean the facts of such a denial and its
                > modern-day perpetuation, this is a matter that is self-evident,
                > although I don't hold it against anyone for believing as they
                > choose.

                What a person happens to believe is of no consequence. That's also
                straight from the Doctor's mouth, just like the prescription itself.

                > As for evil, it is of the Logos,

                Wrong pillbox. The Isaiah prescription was for the church-
                theologian. If he got your medicine in this mix-up, it won't do him
                any good, because he's immune to Steiner. So try to take your own
                medicine by reading "Love and its Meaning in the World."

                Here's a little help:

                In ev'ry job that must be done
                There is an element of fun
                you find the fun and snap!
                The job's a game

                Nad ev'ry task you undertake
                Becomes a piece of cake
                A lark! Aspree!
                It's very clear to me

                That a...
                Spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down
                The medicine go down-wown
                The medicine go down
                Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down
                In a most delightful way

                A robin feathering his nest
                Has very little time to rest
                While gathering his
                Bits of twine and twig

                Though quite intent in his pursuit
                He has a merry tune to toot
                He knows a song
                Will move the job along

                For a...
                Spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down
                The medicine go down-wown
                The medicine go down
                Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down
                In a most delightful way

                (Mary Poppins)

                T
              • Steve Hale
                ... I ... itself. ... him ... Try being less clever. Steve
                Message 7 of 21 , Jul 30 11:53 PM
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                  --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle"
                  <hisholiness@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Steve Hale wrote:
                  >
                  > > And what, pray tell, anthro-doctrine of Jewish Christ-denial am
                  I
                  > > referring to?
                  >
                  > You're dodging the issue, focusing instead on trying to keep track
                  > of your anthro-doctrines. Now take your prescription.
                  >
                  > > If you mean the facts of such a denial and its
                  > > modern-day perpetuation, this is a matter that is self-evident,
                  > > although I don't hold it against anyone for believing as they
                  > > choose.
                  >
                  > What a person happens to believe is of no consequence. That's also
                  > straight from the Doctor's mouth, just like the prescription
                  itself.
                  >
                  > > As for evil, it is of the Logos,
                  >
                  > Wrong pillbox. The Isaiah prescription was for the church-
                  > theologian. If he got your medicine in this mix-up, it won't do
                  him
                  > any good, because he's immune to Steiner. So try to take your own
                  > medicine by reading "Love and its Meaning in the World."
                  >
                  > Here's a little help:
                  >
                  > In ev'ry job that must be done
                  > There is an element of fun
                  > you find the fun and snap!
                  > The job's a game
                  >
                  > Nad ev'ry task you undertake
                  > Becomes a piece of cake
                  > A lark! Aspree!
                  > It's very clear to me
                  >
                  > That a...
                  > Spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down
                  > The medicine go down-wown
                  > The medicine go down
                  > Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down
                  > In a most delightful way
                  >
                  > A robin feathering his nest
                  > Has very little time to rest
                  > While gathering his
                  > Bits of twine and twig
                  >
                  > Though quite intent in his pursuit
                  > He has a merry tune to toot
                  > He knows a song
                  > Will move the job along
                  >
                  > For a...
                  > Spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down
                  > The medicine go down-wown
                  > The medicine go down
                  > Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down
                  > In a most delightful way
                  >
                  > (Mary Poppins)
                  >
                  > T

                  Try being less clever.

                  Steve
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