Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Do We Have A Million?

Expand Messages
  • Steve Hale
    But what has to play a particularly significant role in this third phase is the awareness of having created a Society which has taken the first steps along a
    Message 1 of 10 , May 29 11:50 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      "But what has to play a particularly significant
      role in this third phase is the awareness of having
      created a Society which has taken the first steps
      along a road which a large part of mankind will later
      follow. Consider carefully that a relatively small
      society is set up which has taken upon itself the task
      of doing something which a large part of mankind is
      eventually supposed to follow.

      Anthroposophists today must not think they have
      only the same commitments which future anthroposophist
      will have when they exist by the million rather than
      the thousand. When limited numbers are active in the
      vanguard of a movement they have to show commitment of
      a much higher order. It means that they are obliged to
      show greater courage, greater energy, greater
      patience, greater tolerance and, above all, greater
      truthfulness in every respect. And in our present
      third stage a situation arose which specifically
      tested our truthfulness and seriousness. It related in
      a certain sense to the subject matter discussed at one
      point in the lectures to theologians.

      Irrespective of the fact that individual
      anthroposophists exist, a feeling should have
      developed and must develop, among them that
      Anthroposophia exists as a separate being, who moves
      about amongst us, as it were, towards whom we carry a
      responsibility in every moment of our lives.
      Anthroposophia is actually an invisible person who
      walks among visible people and towards whom we must
      show the greatest responsibility for as long as we are
      a small group. Anthroposophia is someone who must be
      understood as an invisible person, as someone with a
      real existence, who should be consulted in the
      individual actions of our lives.

      Thus, if connections form between people –
      friendships, cliques and so on – at a time when the
      group of anthroposophists is still small, it is all
      the more necessary to consult and to be able to
      justify all one's actions before this invisible
      person.

      This will, of course, apply less and less as
      anthroposophy spreads. But as long as it remains the
      property of a small group of people, it is necessary
      for every action to follow from consultation with the
      person Anthroposophia. That Anthroposophia should be
      seen as a living being is an essential condition of
      its existence. It will only be allowed to die when its
      group of supporters has expanded immeasurably. What we
      require, then, is a deeply serious commitment to the
      invisible person I have just spoken about. That
      commitment has to grow with every passing day. If it
      does so, there can be no doubt that everything we do
      will begin and precede in the right way."

      From Lecture 7, "The Consolidation of the Anthroposophical
      Movement", 16 June 1923.
    • dottie zold
      Its not the number who are joined rather the number who are able to lift themselves along this Initiatic path. To deny we are initiates due to some type of
      Message 2 of 10 , May 29 1:49 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        Its not the number who are joined rather the number
        who are able to lift themselves along this Initiatic
        path. To deny we are initiates due to some type of
        judgement of what an initiate is plays directly into
        the hands of the adversaries. Best to make ourselves
        aware of those that speak forth that which can deepen
        our understanding. There may be many around and those
        with a particular structure that I have noticed are
        Dennis Klocek, Helen Lubin, and Sergei Prokofieff.
        That does not negate all the great work that others on
        this list and off bring.

        Dennis Klocek has the goods that are needed for a
        further understanding through exercizes. If you
        consider yourself on the Initiatic path his book The
        Seers Handbook and the Seeking Spirit Vision are not
        to be missed. There are exercizes that further
        progress along the path brought forth by Rudolf
        Steiner. His books are a Second Class as much as
        anything could be. I shall think that possibly the
        Third Class is just starting to seed itself. This
        would be comparative to a Thirteenth Step in Alcohol
        Anomynous.

        There is a rejuvination happening in Anthroposophy. I
        think Dennis K. has a lot to do with this. He has been
        able to reach a certain level that has opened the door
        for not only himself but also for us, in a similar
        manner our teacher did during his lifetime.

        I share these thoughts as an independent thinker of
        what appears to me.

        All good things,
        Dottie

        p.s. Thanks again Stephen for the quote below.
        > "But what has to play a particularly significant
        > role in this third phase is the awareness of having
        > created a Society which has taken the first steps
        > along a road which a large part of mankind will
        > later
        > follow. Consider carefully that a relatively small
        > society is set up which has taken upon itself the
        > task
        > of doing something which a large part of mankind is
        > eventually supposed to follow.
        >
        > Anthroposophists today must not think they have
        > only the same commitments which future
        > anthroposophist
        > will have when they exist by the million rather than
        > the thousand. When limited numbers are active in the
        > vanguard of a movement they have to show commitment
        > of
        > a much higher order. It means that they are obliged
        > to
        > show greater courage, greater energy, greater
        > patience, greater tolerance and, above all, greater
        > truthfulness in every respect. And in our present
        > third stage a situation arose which specifically
        > tested our truthfulness and seriousness. It related
        > in
        > a certain sense to the subject matter discussed at
        > one
        > point in the lectures to theologians.
        >
        > Irrespective of the fact that individual
        > anthroposophists exist, a feeling should have
        > developed and must develop, among them that
        > Anthroposophia exists as a separate being, who moves
        > about amongst us, as it were, towards whom we carry
        > a
        > responsibility in every moment of our lives.
        > Anthroposophia is actually an invisible person who
        > walks among visible people and towards whom we must
        > show the greatest responsibility for as long as we
        > are
        > a small group. Anthroposophia is someone who must be
        > understood as an invisible person, as someone with a
        > real existence, who should be consulted in the
        > individual actions of our lives.
        >
        > Thus, if connections form between people –
        > friendships, cliques and so on – at a time when the
        > group of anthroposophists is still small, it is all
        > the more necessary to consult and to be able to
        > justify all one's actions before this invisible
        > person.
        >
        > This will, of course, apply less and less as
        > anthroposophy spreads. But as long as it remains the
        > property of a small group of people, it is necessary
        > for every action to follow from consultation with
        > the
        > person Anthroposophia. That Anthroposophia should be
        > seen as a living being is an essential condition of
        > its existence. It will only be allowed to die when
        > its
        > group of supporters has expanded immeasurably. What
        > we
        > require, then, is a deeply serious commitment to the
        > invisible person I have just spoken about. That
        > commitment has to grow with every passing day. If it
        > does so, there can be no doubt that everything we do
        > will begin and precede in the right way."
        >
        > From Lecture 7, "The Consolidation of the
        > Anthroposophical
        > Movement", 16 June 1923.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        http://mail.yahoo.com
      • Steve Hale
        The question I have in mind is: How many members of the anthroposophical movement are there in the world today? If there were maybe a thousand or more back in
        Message 3 of 10 , May 29 8:29 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          The question I have in mind is: How many members of the
          anthroposophical movement are there in the world today? If there
          were maybe a thousand or more back in 1923, and I believe the AS has
          something like 60,000 members today, could there be maybe five, ten,
          or twenty times that many who belong to the worldwide
          anthroposophical movement?

          And it seems to me that Steiner is saying in this excerpt below that
          the invisible being Anthroposophia is needed only as long as the
          movement is small in number. When it becomes a million, then
          something else will be needed; like the fully thinking consciousness
          soul, thinking intensely wrought ideas and forming them into
          creative displays of the egoic individuality.

          I think it is important to note that what was originally given out
          in oral communications, which struck at the heart and soul of the
          members who actually heard Rudolf Steiner speak, is now today a
          matter of pure thinking force designed to stream its way from the
          head to the heart in a dynamic act of warmth generation.

          Thus, what originally was able to stream from the heart to the head
          is now reversed in this time of the greater Consciousness Soul Age.
          The legacy lives on because the lectures were wise enough to contain
          what the head needs to produce out of itself as new thinking force.

          Steve

          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
          <dottie_z@...> wrote:
          >
          > Its not the number who are joined rather the number
          > who are able to lift themselves along this Initiatic
          > path. To deny we are initiates due to some type of
          > judgement of what an initiate is plays directly into
          > the hands of the adversaries. Best to make ourselves
          > aware of those that speak forth that which can deepen
          > our understanding. There may be many around and those
          > with a particular structure that I have noticed are
          > Dennis Klocek, Helen Lubin, and Sergei Prokofieff.
          > That does not negate all the great work that others on
          > this list and off bring.
          >
          > Dennis Klocek has the goods that are needed for a
          > further understanding through exercizes. If you
          > consider yourself on the Initiatic path his book The
          > Seers Handbook and the Seeking Spirit Vision are not
          > to be missed. There are exercizes that further
          > progress along the path brought forth by Rudolf
          > Steiner. His books are a Second Class as much as
          > anything could be. I shall think that possibly the
          > Third Class is just starting to seed itself. This
          > would be comparative to a Thirteenth Step in Alcohol
          > Anomynous.
          >
          > There is a rejuvination happening in Anthroposophy. I
          > think Dennis K. has a lot to do with this. He has been
          > able to reach a certain level that has opened the door
          > for not only himself but also for us, in a similar
          > manner our teacher did during his lifetime.
          >
          > I share these thoughts as an independent thinker of
          > what appears to me.
          >
          > All good things,
          > Dottie
          >
          > p.s. Thanks again Stephen for the quote below.
          > > "But what has to play a particularly significant
          > > role in this third phase is the awareness of having
          > > created a Society which has taken the first steps
          > > along a road which a large part of mankind will
          > > later
          > > follow. Consider carefully that a relatively small
          > > society is set up which has taken upon itself the
          > > task
          > > of doing something which a large part of mankind is
          > > eventually supposed to follow.
          > >
          > > Anthroposophists today must not think they have
          > > only the same commitments which future
          > > anthroposophist
          > > will have when they exist by the million rather than
          > > the thousand. When limited numbers are active in the
          > > vanguard of a movement they have to show commitment
          > > of
          > > a much higher order. It means that they are obliged
          > > to
          > > show greater courage, greater energy, greater
          > > patience, greater tolerance and, above all, greater
          > > truthfulness in every respect. And in our present
          > > third stage a situation arose which specifically
          > > tested our truthfulness and seriousness. It related
          > > in
          > > a certain sense to the subject matter discussed at
          > > one
          > > point in the lectures to theologians.
          > >
          > > Irrespective of the fact that individual
          > > anthroposophists exist, a feeling should have
          > > developed and must develop, among them that
          > > Anthroposophia exists as a separate being, who moves
          > > about amongst us, as it were, towards whom we carry
          > > a
          > > responsibility in every moment of our lives.
          > > Anthroposophia is actually an invisible person who
          > > walks among visible people and towards whom we must
          > > show the greatest responsibility for as long as we
          > > are
          > > a small group. Anthroposophia is someone who must be
          > > understood as an invisible person, as someone with a
          > > real existence, who should be consulted in the
          > > individual actions of our lives.
          > >
          > > Thus, if connections form between people –
          > > friendships, cliques and so on – at a time when the
          > > group of anthroposophists is still small, it is all
          > > the more necessary to consult and to be able to
          > > justify all one's actions before this invisible
          > > person.
          > >
          > > This will, of course, apply less and less as
          > > anthroposophy spreads. But as long as it remains the
          > > property of a small group of people, it is necessary
          > > for every action to follow from consultation with
          > > the
          > > person Anthroposophia. That Anthroposophia should be
          > > seen as a living being is an essential condition of
          > > its existence. It will only be allowed to die when
          > > its
          > > group of supporters has expanded immeasurably. What
          > > we
          > > require, then, is a deeply serious commitment to the
          > > invisible person I have just spoken about. That
          > > commitment has to grow with every passing day. If it
          > > does so, there can be no doubt that everything we do
          > > will begin and precede in the right way."
          > >
          > > From Lecture 7, "The Consolidation of the
          > > Anthroposophical
          > > Movement", 16 June 1923.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________________________
          > Do You Yahoo!?
          > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          > http://mail.yahoo.com
          >
        • dottie zold
          ... Well Stephen it is an open question I think. I think it has more to do with the idea that the Being would then be able to move to the next stage of Its
          Message 4 of 10 , May 29 9:39 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            Stephen:
            > And it seems to me that Steiner is saying in this
            > excerpt below that
            > the invisible being Anthroposophia is needed only as
            > long as the
            > movement is small in number. When it becomes a
            > million, then
            > something else will be needed; like the fully
            > thinking consciousness
            > soul, thinking intensely wrought ideas and forming
            > them into
            > creative displays of the egoic individuality.

            Well Stephen it is an open question I think. I think
            it has more to do with the idea that the Being would
            then be able to move to the next stage of Its
            development as will mankind. At that point it would
            seem to me that maybe we are then in Spirit Self. As
            this is not something that is near in time it would
            seem that we are looking at a far larger number then a
            million if we compared that to the whole of the
            society at large. I think the number is relative to
            the society itself.

            I think what I have been experiencing in my
            communications or thinking with others is that many
            are still working out of the Intellectual Soul Age.
            And in this it would seem that it needs to be moved
            into the self reflective Consciousness Soul Age. If we
            would contemplate what new has to come about in true
            self reflection and honesty I believe we can be met by
            the Being of Anthroposophy who will then guide us to
            an objective reality of our work. The more people She
            is able to relate to the more people begin to embody
            the Christ like nature we all seek to work with and
            for.

            Looking that we have moved from the Sentient Soul to
            the Intellectual Soul and are now moving to through
            the Consciousness Soul it is our responsibility to be
            clear about what our thinking and feeling in real life
            is showing us as to where we stand in this Age.

            Objectivity is the key to this epoch and I am thinking
            it would be best if that is what we truly look to
            acheive during our short time here on Earth. I think
            if we can truly work towards being objective versus
            subjective in our thinking and our feeling we are on
            our way to making this time on earth a well spent one.


            Rudolf Steiner is clear that what the world needs to
            come to is what is taught in Anthroposophy. I don't
            think it is about a legacy as much as it is a
            progression of what was wrought and wrestled by him
            during his lifetime as Rudolf Steiner. Anthroposophy
            has a long way to go before it is understood not only
            by those that are just waking up to it but also and
            especially by those that claim it as their own inner
            path.

            All good things,
            Dottie

            > I think it is important to note that what was
            > originally given out
            > in oral communications, which struck at the heart
            > and soul of the
            > members who actually heard Rudolf Steiner speak, is
            > now today a
            > matter of pure thinking force designed to stream its
            > way from the
            > head to the heart in a dynamic act of warmth
            > generation.
            >
            > Thus, what originally was able to stream from the
            > heart to the head
            > is now reversed in this time of the greater
            > Consciousness Soul Age.
            > The legacy lives on because the lectures were wise
            > enough to contain
            > what the head needs to produce out of itself as new
            > thinking force.
            >
            > Steve
            >
            > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com,
            > dottie zold
            > <dottie_z@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Its not the number who are joined rather the
            > number
            > > who are able to lift themselves along this
            > Initiatic
            > > path. To deny we are initiates due to some type of
            > > judgement of what an initiate is plays directly
            > into
            > > the hands of the adversaries. Best to make
            > ourselves
            > > aware of those that speak forth that which can
            > deepen
            > > our understanding. There may be many around and
            > those
            > > with a particular structure that I have noticed
            > are
            > > Dennis Klocek, Helen Lubin, and Sergei Prokofieff.
            > > That does not negate all the great work that
            > others on
            > > this list and off bring.
            > >
            > > Dennis Klocek has the goods that are needed for a
            > > further understanding through exercizes. If you
            > > consider yourself on the Initiatic path his book
            > The
            > > Seers Handbook and the Seeking Spirit Vision are
            > not
            > > to be missed. There are exercizes that further
            > > progress along the path brought forth by Rudolf
            > > Steiner. His books are a Second Class as much as
            > > anything could be. I shall think that possibly the
            > > Third Class is just starting to seed itself. This
            > > would be comparative to a Thirteenth Step in
            > Alcohol
            > > Anomynous.
            > >
            > > There is a rejuvination happening in
            > Anthroposophy. I
            > > think Dennis K. has a lot to do with this. He has
            > been
            > > able to reach a certain level that has opened the
            > door
            > > for not only himself but also for us, in a similar
            > > manner our teacher did during his lifetime.
            > >
            > > I share these thoughts as an independent thinker
            > of
            > > what appears to me.
            > >
            > > All good things,
            > > Dottie
            > >
            > > p.s. Thanks again Stephen for the quote below.
            > > > "But what has to play a particularly significant
            > > > role in this third phase is the awareness of
            > having
            > > > created a Society which has taken the first
            > steps
            > > > along a road which a large part of mankind will
            > > > later
            > > > follow. Consider carefully that a relatively
            > small
            > > > society is set up which has taken upon itself
            > the
            > > > task
            > > > of doing something which a large part of mankind
            > is
            > > > eventually supposed to follow.
            > > >
            > > > Anthroposophists today must not think they have
            > > > only the same commitments which future
            > > > anthroposophist
            > > > will have when they exist by the million rather
            > than
            > > > the thousand. When limited numbers are active in
            > the
            > > > vanguard of a movement they have to show
            > commitment
            > > > of
            > > > a much higher order. It means that they are
            > obliged
            > > > to
            > > > show greater courage, greater energy, greater
            > > > patience, greater tolerance and, above all,
            > greater
            > > > truthfulness in every respect. And in our
            > present
            > > > third stage a situation arose which specifically
            > > > tested our truthfulness and seriousness. It
            > related
            > > > in
            > > > a certain sense to the subject matter discussed
            > at
            > > > one
            > > > point in the lectures to theologians.
            > > >
            > > > Irrespective of the fact that individual
            > > > anthroposophists exist, a feeling should have
            > > > developed and must develop, among them that
            > > > Anthroposophia exists as a separate being, who
            > moves
            > > > about amongst us, as it were, towards whom we
            > carry
            > > > a
            > > > responsibility in every moment of our lives.
            > > > Anthroposophia is actually an invisible person
            > who
            > > > walks among visible people and towards whom we
            > must
            > > > show the greatest responsibility for as long as
            > we
            > > > are
            > > > a small group. Anthroposophia is someone who
            > must be
            > > > understood as an invisible person, as someone
            > with a
            > > > real existence, who should be consulted in the
            > > > individual actions of our lives.
            > > >
            > > > Thus, if connections form between people –
            > > > friendships, cliques and so on – at a time when
            > the
            > > > group of anthroposophists is still small, it is
            > all
            > > > the more necessary to consult and to be able to
            > > > justify all one's actions before this invisible
            > > > person.
            > > >
            > > > This will, of course, apply less and less as
            > > > anthroposophy spreads. But as long as it remains
            > the
            > > > property of a small group of people, it is
            > necessary
            > > > for every action to follow from consultation
            > with
            > > > the
            > > > person Anthroposophia. That Anthroposophia
            > should be
            > > > seen as a living being is an essential condition
            > of
            > > > its existence. It will only be allowed to die
            > when
            > > > its
            > > > group of supporters has expanded immeasurably.
            > What
            > > > we
            > > > require, then, is a deeply serious commitment to
            > the
            > > > invisible person I have just spoken about. That
            > > > commitment has to grow with every passing day.
            > If it
            > > > does so, there can be no doubt that everything
            > we
            === message truncated ===


            __________________________________________________
            Do You Yahoo!?
            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            http://mail.yahoo.com
          • dottie zold
            I want to say Stephen that I can readily relate and do appreciate how you worked with me through questions. I shall try to do the same. Best, Dottie
            Message 5 of 10 , May 29 9:40 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              I want to say Stephen that I can readily relate and do
              appreciate how you worked with me through questions. I
              shall try to do the same.

              Best,
              Dottie

              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com
            • Steve Hale
              ... I don t think it s an open question at all. This Being came into being as a result of the oral method that Steiner used, which was of the past. Thus, its
              Message 6 of 10 , May 29 11:25 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
                <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                >
                > Stephen:
                > > And it seems to me that Steiner is saying in this
                > > excerpt below that
                > > the invisible being Anthroposophia is needed only as
                > > long as the
                > > movement is small in number. When it becomes a
                > > million, then
                > > something else will be needed; like the fully
                > > thinking consciousness
                > > soul, thinking intensely wrought ideas and forming
                > > them into
                > > creative displays of the egoic individuality.
                >
                > Well Stephen it is an open question I think. I think
                > it has more to do with the idea that the Being would
                > then be able to move to the next stage of Its
                > development as will mankind. At that point it would
                > seem to me that maybe we are then in Spirit Self. As
                > this is not something that is near in time it would
                > seem that we are looking at a far larger number then a
                > million if we compared that to the whole of the
                > society at large. I think the number is relative to
                > the society itself.

                I don't think it's an open question at all. This Being came into
                being as a result of the oral method that Steiner used, which was of
                the past. Thus, its use invoked a being from the past; specifically
                of the 3rd cultural epoch, the age of the Sentient Soul. Therefore,
                the Being Anthroposophia is such a being, having arisen out of
                Steiner's whole heart-centered oral presentation. With time, this
                being becomes obsolete in direct relation to what must now come out
                of the head as a pure, dialectical, and inwardly reflective force.
                In other words, thought turned inward, upon the self observant
                thinker.
                >
                > I think what I have been experiencing in my
                > communications or thinking with others is that many
                > are still working out of the Intellectual Soul Age.
                > And in this it would seem that it needs to be moved
                > into the self reflective Consciousness Soul Age. If we
                > would contemplate what new has to come about in true
                > self reflection and honesty I believe we can be met by
                > the Being of Anthroposophy who will then guide us to
                > an objective reality of our work. The more people She
                > is able to relate to the more people begin to embody
                > the Christ like nature we all seek to work with and
                > for.

                True consciousness begins with the ability to say: I Am. And we all
                do that. Thus, we're all working out of the Consciousness Soul
                Age. What needs to be understood is that true consciousness needs
                the grounding of the intellectual soul in the same way that the
                intellect needs the grounding of the sentient soul. The astral body
                is the seat of the sentient soul; the etheric body is the seat of
                the intellectual soul; and the physical body is the seat of the
                consciousness soul. Our freedom resides here in the mineral kingdom
                in a physical body that dies unto a higher life. And we can only be
                free in a realm in which our destiny plays no part - the physical
                world where thinking makes us the king over all the other kingdoms.
                >
                > Looking that we have moved from the Sentient Soul to
                > the Intellectual Soul and are now moving to through
                > the Consciousness Soul it is our responsibility to be
                > clear about what our thinking and feeling in real life
                > is showing us as to where we stand in this Age.

                The Consciousness Soul is the realization of the Christ Event, and
                the purpose of the Mystery of Golgotha is now being actualized in
                mankind. When Lazarus was raised it represented a concrete symbol
                of both the fact that initiation had become a part of the world
                historical process, and also what must come more and more to the aid
                of a physical resurrection into the higher life - a regenerated
                etheric body. Thus, initiation wisdom will have the effect of
                sealing the developed Sophia into the perceptive etheric body once
                this occurs. Mercury forces are streaming down a quickening effect
                as we speak.
                >
                > Objectivity is the key to this epoch and I am thinking
                > it would be best if that is what we truly look to
                > acheive during our short time here on Earth. I think
                > if we can truly work towards being objective versus
                > subjective in our thinking and our feeling we are on
                > our way to making this time on earth a well spent one.

                Steiner gave an entirely subjective spiritual science in which his
                objective world view could only be subject matter to his listeners.
                Today, we can go further in terms of an objective spiritual science
                based on the methods of intensified thinking, wherein active study,
                concentration, and contemplation represent the necessary reflexion
                for insights to arise from within as a shining forth process.
                >
                >
                > Rudolf Steiner is clear that what the world needs to
                > come to is what is taught in Anthroposophy. I don't
                > think it is about a legacy as much as it is a
                > progression of what was wrought and wrestled by him
                > during his lifetime as Rudolf Steiner. Anthroposophy
                > has a long way to go before it is understood not only
                > by those that are just waking up to it but also and
                > especially by those that claim it as their own inner
                > path.
                >
                > All good things,
                > Dottie

                Anthroposophy stands to be understood more and more as it is taken
                up with the same serious intention as any other area of humanistic
                scholarship, and this has hardly taken place in our time. A few do
                it, and have the right to speak openly about facts. And it is facts
                that we need to be most objective about. Not questions, not
                conjectures, not speculations; just facts. And the willingness to
                entertain facts with an open mind, even if they appear to make no
                sense. Yes, anthroposophy has a long way to go, and psychosophy and
                pneumatosophy have even a longer way to go. This is because mankind
                resists change; resists anything new, especially knowledge. It is
                symptomatic of our time, which is the time of the "little
                consciousness soul man". But in time, we'll get bigger.

                Steve
              • dottie zold
                Stephen when I say it is an open question I am refering to the point you made about Anthroposophia only being needed for a short period of time. I think it is
                Message 7 of 10 , May 30 5:01 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Stephen when I say it is an open question I am
                  refering to the point you made about Anthroposophia
                  only being needed for a short period of time. I think
                  it is a narrow reading on your part that doesn't take
                  in the rest of what he says about the Being.
                  Especially since just a wee bit back it was ridiculous
                  for us to even speaking about this being according to
                  you as well as to speaking about the Christmas
                  Conference. I understand that you have since changed
                  that thinking however I do think it good study to
                  consider reading up on those that have written
                  extensively about Anthroposophia.

                  He says she moves through man and is an invisible
                  human being that also has an evolutionary path as does
                  man. They seem to be tied to one another as far as I
                  can contemplate. I don't think you can take one
                  paragraph of Rudolf Steiner's work and say this is
                  what is meant when you haven't read any of the
                  relevant work by those who are shedding light on the
                  being such as Sergei Prokofieff and Adriana Koulias to
                  mention a few. Christopher Bamford also is bringing
                  up nicely as well. But if you want to know more about
                  the Being versus what you've read in a paragraph or
                  two I suggest either the Heavenly Sophia book by
                  Prokofief or the lectures offered up by Adriana
                  Koulias.

                  Dottie


                  __________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  http://mail.yahoo.com
                • Steve Hale
                  He says: This will, of course, apply less and less as anthroposophy spreads. But as long as it remains the property of a small group of people, it is
                  Message 8 of 10 , May 30 12:31 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    He says:
                    "This will, of course, apply less and less as
                    anthroposophy spreads. But as long as it remains the
                    property of a small group of people, it is necessary
                    for every action to follow from consultation with the
                    person Anthroposophia. That Anthroposophia should be
                    seen as a living being is an essential condition of
                    its existence. It will only be allowed to die when its
                    group of supporters has expanded immeasurably. What we
                    require, then, is a deeply serious commitment to the
                    invisible person I have just spoken about. That
                    commitment has to grow with every passing day. If it
                    does so, there can be no doubt that everything we do
                    will begin and precede in the right way."

                    So my question is: has the group of supporters expanded
                    immeasurably, say to the million that he previously gives as a
                    figure? How big is the anthroposophical movement today?

                    Also of importance to me is the fact that Steiner never acknowledged
                    this being except on just two or three occasions, i.e., February
                    1913, June 1923, and the Christmas Conference 1923/1924. Rather,
                    his main concern was always the uptake of the knowledge that would
                    be good for Sophia Who governs those slumbering soul-spiritual
                    organs variously called: chakras, lotus flowers, and Canaan's land.
                    So what we're talking about here is a divided astral body, wherein
                    the organs that comprise the Sentient Soul, and give us the sense
                    perception of an outer external physical world, must be realigned
                    again with the upper division in order to combine the sensible with
                    the supersensible. This is the ultimate goal of the Consciousness
                    Soul Age, as the Spirit Self represents a fully transformed astral
                    body governed by the I Am, and the 6th cultural epoch will see this
                    reunification of the original twelvefold Astral Body now beheld out
                    of the Ego's power to transform it.

                    It's very important to understand that the very nature of Rudolf
                    Steiner's whole method of communication to the groups caused this
                    being to arise of necessity out of this past age of the Sentient
                    Soul. And he was able to give such a description and purpose for
                    the society, while it was still small, because his whole perceptual
                    field changed after the fire. He no longer could remain with his
                    astral body and ego partially outside of him. These members came
                    now down fully into his physical body, and he began to show his age.

                    He also was able to see the need to address all the issues and
                    initiatives for refounding the society, which should really have
                    taken place ten years before at the original founding. But now his
                    whole perceptual field became changed. Instead of seeing the astral
                    body of the groups he spoke to as before; as a general soul mood and
                    condition, he now was able to look into each individual soul out
                    there in the audience, and saw where the Being Anthroposphia stood
                    there as well. And he realized that She came through the whole time
                    that he had been cultivating anthroposophical spiritual science
                    according to the method first discussed with Marie Sievers in
                    September of 1901.

                    Steve

                    --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
                    <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Stephen when I say it is an open question I am
                    > refering to the point you made about Anthroposophia
                    > only being needed for a short period of time. I think
                    > it is a narrow reading on your part that doesn't take
                    > in the rest of what he says about the Being.
                    > Especially since just a wee bit back it was ridiculous
                    > for us to even speaking about this being according to
                    > you as well as to speaking about the Christmas
                    > Conference. I understand that you have since changed
                    > that thinking however I do think it good study to
                    > consider reading up on those that have written
                    > extensively about Anthroposophia.
                  • Stephen Clarke
                    ... acknowledged ... I think there were a couple of other instances where RS mentions Anthroposophia, but indeed, there were few. I could look this up and
                    Message 9 of 10 , May 30 6:06 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Dear Steve H:

                      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale"
                      <sardisian01@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > He says:
                      > "This will, of course, apply less and less as
                      > anthroposophy spreads. But as long as it remains the
                      > property of a small group of people, it is necessary
                      > for every action to follow from consultation with the
                      > person Anthroposophia. That Anthroposophia should be
                      > seen as a living being is an essential condition of
                      > its existence. It will only be allowed to die when its
                      > group of supporters has expanded immeasurably. What we
                      > require, then, is a deeply serious commitment to the
                      > invisible person I have just spoken about. That
                      > commitment has to grow with every passing day. If it
                      > does so, there can be no doubt that everything we do
                      > will begin and precede in the right way."
                      >
                      > So my question is: has the group of supporters expanded
                      > immeasurably, say to the million that he previously gives as a
                      > figure? How big is the anthroposophical movement today?
                      >
                      > Also of importance to me is the fact that Steiner never
                      acknowledged
                      > this being except on just two or three occasions, i.e., February
                      > 1913, June 1923, and the Christmas Conference 1923/1924.


                      I think there were a couple of other instances where RS mentions
                      Anthroposophia, but indeed, there were few. I could look this up and
                      cite if if you are interested.

                      50k world-wide members may be accurate, but what may be more relevant
                      for those of us trying to carry the Movement in the USA, is that at
                      present there are only some 3,800 members in the US Society, with
                      those numbers expected to decline, since the demographic is heavily
                      tilted to elderly members. Some significant percentage of these are
                      inactive, although still officially on the rolls. This is from fairly
                      recent conversation with Jean Yeager. Then there are some (how many?)
                      who are connected but not members.

                      I have no idea why RS would say that Anthroposophia would not be
                      needed if there were enough members in the Society. And I do not
                      understand why he would refer to her as "it." No one that I know of
                      would refer to his of her lover or Muse or angel as an "it." On the
                      face of it that is absurd, considering the intimacy that is both
                      required and fostered by such a relationship. Even technically
                      speaking, a living being can never be an "it"; such a one is always
                      a "thou" and a Steiner would never make a gross mistake like this. So
                      the question is what did he _mean_ by what he said? Beats me; I am
                      inclined to dismiss it and chalk it up to lousy note-taking and/or
                      translation.

                      Even Prokoffief charts Her future evolution way on into the far
                      future. Why should she need to die if she is the divine archetype of
                      the Human soul?
                      _If_ "it" refers to Anthroposophy intead of to Anthroposophia (a
                      distinction that is sometimes lacking or difficult to discern in the
                      German), the passage is nonsensical.

                      Any ideas?

                      SRC
                    • Steve Hale
                      Stephen, It would be reasonable to suspect that there are at least two, five, ten, or even more times as many members of the anthro movement than the society
                      Message 10 of 10 , May 30 6:42 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Stephen,

                        It would be reasonable to suspect that there are at least two, five,
                        ten, or even more times as many members of the anthro movement than
                        the society today. So, to me, this implies that the Being
                        Anthropoosphia existed only when the numbers were small; as a
                        function of Steiner's requisite method of presenting esoteric
                        knowledge in an oral fashion. What he means by 'its' death concerns
                        the fact that the 20th century will bring forth the Etheric Christ,
                        Whose task is to usher us into the future times wherein the living
                        nature and problem of evil will have to be dealt with. And, in
                        fact, this reality is upon us now.

                        Thinking stands to be the method of discourse and development ever
                        since Rudolf Steiner's death, and the numbers have risen accordingly.

                        Steve

                        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Clarke"
                        <mozartg@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Dear Steve H:
                        >
                        > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale"
                        > <sardisian01@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > He says:
                        > > "This will, of course, apply less and less as
                        > > anthroposophy spreads. But as long as it remains the
                        > > property of a small group of people, it is necessary
                        > > for every action to follow from consultation with the
                        > > person Anthroposophia. That Anthroposophia should be
                        > > seen as a living being is an essential condition of
                        > > its existence. It will only be allowed to die when its
                        > > group of supporters has expanded immeasurably. What we
                        > > require, then, is a deeply serious commitment to the
                        > > invisible person I have just spoken about. That
                        > > commitment has to grow with every passing day. If it
                        > > does so, there can be no doubt that everything we do
                        > > will begin and precede in the right way."
                        > >
                        > > So my question is: has the group of supporters expanded
                        > > immeasurably, say to the million that he previously gives as a
                        > > figure? How big is the anthroposophical movement today?
                        > >
                        > > Also of importance to me is the fact that Steiner never
                        > acknowledged
                        > > this being except on just two or three occasions, i.e., February
                        > > 1913, June 1923, and the Christmas Conference 1923/1924.
                        >
                        >
                        > I think there were a couple of other instances where RS mentions
                        > Anthroposophia, but indeed, there were few. I could look this up
                        and
                        > cite if if you are interested.
                        >
                        > 50k world-wide members may be accurate, but what may be more
                        relevant
                        > for those of us trying to carry the Movement in the USA, is that
                        at
                        > present there are only some 3,800 members in the US Society, with
                        > those numbers expected to decline, since the demographic is
                        heavily
                        > tilted to elderly members. Some significant percentage of these
                        are
                        > inactive, although still officially on the rolls. This is from
                        fairly
                        > recent conversation with Jean Yeager. Then there are some (how
                        many?)
                        > who are connected but not members.
                        >
                        > I have no idea why RS would say that Anthroposophia would not be
                        > needed if there were enough members in the Society. And I do not
                        > understand why he would refer to her as "it." No one that I know
                        of
                        > would refer to his of her lover or Muse or angel as an "it." On
                        the
                        > face of it that is absurd, considering the intimacy that is both
                        > required and fostered by such a relationship. Even technically
                        > speaking, a living being can never be an "it"; such a one is
                        always
                        > a "thou" and a Steiner would never make a gross mistake like this.
                        So
                        > the question is what did he _mean_ by what he said? Beats me; I
                        am
                        > inclined to dismiss it and chalk it up to lousy note-taking and/or
                        > translation.
                        >
                        > Even Prokoffief charts Her future evolution way on into the far
                        > future. Why should she need to die if she is the divine archetype
                        of
                        > the Human soul?
                        > _If_ "it" refers to Anthroposophy intead of to Anthroposophia (a
                        > distinction that is sometimes lacking or difficult to discern in
                        the
                        > German), the passage is nonsensical.
                        >
                        > Any ideas?
                        >
                        > SRC
                        >
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.