Re: Myth and legend/Judas
- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org,
Tarjei Straume <anthrouncle@c...> wrote:
> 1 a a traditional story sometimes popularly regarded as historicalbut
> unauthenticated; a mytha famous
> 1 b such stories collectively
> 1 c a popular but unfounded belief
> 1 d [colloq.] a person about whom unauthenticated tales are told;
> or notorious person (became a legend in his own lifetime).Bradford;
> 2 a an inscription, especially on a coin or medal.
> 2 b [Printing] a caption
> 2 c wording on a map etc. explaining the symbols used.
> 3 a [Hist.] the story of a saint's life.
> 3 b [Hist.] a collection of lives of saints or similar stories.
Now tracing things that were left out of the Bible or left out of
history altogether, and seeing how Steiner was such an excellent
reporter, a real investigative reporter, we hear such stunning facts
that are sensational from his words. They may be considered legends
but not myths and they also are the un-included picture of the facts
that we can term apocryphal.
I looked up "Kariot" a tiny island and in Jordan area of Palestine
related to JaLoud and Kariot and the city of Nablus. This particular
and several particulars of Nablus-Palastine-Kariot begged further
interest regarding how Steiner presented his "legend" of Judas
Iskariot. But have no fear this does lead us to Bob Dylan, that is
if you can ride the high horse.
Three more Palestinian civilians were killed last night, including
one woman, and 5 injured (3 under the age of 18, including a 10 year
old). These willful killings and willfully caused injuries are a
result of the policy of escalating violence and excessive force used
by Israeli forces against Palestinians, at the instigation of, and
resulting from threats made by, Israeli army commanders and
political leaders against the Palestinian people.
The Palestinian civilians killed were :
· Baher Shafik Mahmoud Oda, 18 years old, Hawara Village;
· Ahmed Hasan Hahmed Alen, 18 years old, Kariot Village, in Nablus
· Ida Daoud Musa, 43 year old woman of El Berih.
"There is a legend which, though not in the Gospels, is none the
less a Christian legend and a Christian truth. It runs as follows:
There was once a couple who for a long time had no son. It was
revealed to the mother in a dream (note this well) that she would
have a son, that this son would kill his father and wed his mother,
and bring terrible misfortune upon his whole tribe.
In this legend we have a dream, as with Oedipus there is an oracle
that is, a remnant of the old inherited clairvoyance."
Steiner often throws in some eye popping details connecting dots we
never were aware of and part of the interest in soul development is
being able to sense in the soul when such eye popping, soul jarring
moments grab one. Most people, as per my experience, don't listen
and have 'blind spots'. They read Steiner or someone else, Chomsky
and a hundred other examples, and for some reason people have been
numbed by the type of dialect and discourse that is common to both
news and the twisted, illogical failed university thinking of P.S.,
where things are bent beyond recognition to make some twisted sliver
There has become a well designed Spiritual Numbness so that if one
does come across potent passages, the reflex of Ahrimanic numbness,
and missing insights, just give one a blank. However to the outsider
perspective it would seem that Steiner and certainly Bradford is
twisting the story out of context. Now that is why Ahriman has come
in under the cover of thinking blindness and thinking numbness by
twisting, tale and lie and deception with such boring, dry and dead
concepts that everyone who gets an education comes out deader than
they went in. They found no stunning threads. These are reserved for
those wide participants in the Michael School.
Now partly this is due to the efforts Steiner made in working
absolutely new paradigms of research and concepts into culture. On
another site the Soul was slowly being defined as preset-modularity.
Here is term one has to see arising in culture and also be able to
translate it into a living conceptual framework. So here is a term,
nobody is watching and it slowly creeps up because to say SOUL is so
unscientific, blah, blah, blah. Steiner offered his terms and his
structure and it is our job to integrate and observe the various
connections, lame or accurate, that science is fiddling with. But
people don't care to do that, even though it is highly interesting.
Dreams and modularity
Five features of dreams
Illogical content and organization
Clear sensory impressions
Difficulty of remembering the dream
The principle of modularity
The mind is not controlled by a single agency
It is more like a collection of specialized devices: modules
In dreams some of the modules that work when we are awake are turned
off; others work harder
Another example of modularity: autism, a condition that may not
affect intelligence, but prevents the individual from understanding
WHERE AM I?
Mind = soul = spirit
Is the mind in the heart or in the brain?
Aristotle (384-322 BCE): heart
Galen (129-199 CE): brain
Galen's brain theory
Experiments on Barbary apes
Squeeze heart and brain
Tie off nerve from brain to vocal chords
Facts about the cortex of the brain
Total cortical area = 1.3 x 105 mm2
= a square sheet about 14" on a side
Cortical thickness = 1.7 mm
about 1/16" thick
Number of cortical neurons = 1010
10,000,000,000 = 10 billion
Density of cortical neurons = 105/mm3
1,638,706,400 = about 1.7 billion in a 1" cube
Number of synapses per neuron = 4x103
Axons: 3 km/mm3
80,000 miles in a 1" cube
Number of corpus callosum fibers = 5x108
500,000,000 = 500 million
Electrical activity of the brain
So my point was, that Steiner mentions Kariot in relation to Judas.
I look up Kariot and find such a place, obscure, but very
interesting. Now the name Judas Iskariot and what is known as
APOCRYPHAL aspects of the unincluded texts of the history of the
Bible, explain and practically knock one off ones chair, if one
takes Steiner seriously. It is a great, great mistake if one doesn't
take intelligence and the expanded research of Dr. Steiner
seriously. It is a grave mistake. But that would mean reading with
interest. Steiner says, legend, in regards to the Iskariot data, and
we can define this as well as apocryphal, off the beaten track, but
accurate text research and more historical than history.
So in brief, what is missing in good reporting is following the
story. Judas in more than a 'legend' is the 'rest of the story'
digging up the dirt, that Judas and the name Kariot really refered
to something interesting and suddenly we get this strange tale of
how Judas was acting out a complete ancient Greek Oedipus event,
which brings him right into the household of Pilate...(where do we
get that little clue? Do we even have a clue of some of the more
interesting offshoots of the stories behind some of these disciples?)
Judas, kills Father, marries Mother, he is THE GREEATES SINNER and
we assume that GREAT SINNER means because he betrayed Christ. No.
Because he killed his Father and slept with his mother, then he
betrayed Christ. So incorporated in the events of Golgotha are what
would interest Steiner a great deal, how the Greek biographical
potency of Oedipus played into the Golgotha event. Why, because if
nothing else, Greek Michael Impulse is Steiner Impulse to the core.
Here we are introduced to the missing puzzle piece. Judas was a
The pivotal event of Judas was that the Gods needed a Patsy, like
Lee Harvey Oswald, the Gods needed a pivot who had truly, truly
become an orphan and a homeless person and had nothing but the
Christ. This is not to say that Lee Harvey did the shooting but he
was a patsy.
Let us look at Lazarus who is John, leaning his head on the breast
of Christ. John lives only because the Christ heart is sustaining
him. Let us look at the polarity of how Judas is also magnetically
attracted to the only shelter and home that will sustain his life.
The entirely new sun constellation formed of the brotherhood of the
disciples ringed by the mighty forces of the Elohim Christ Being.
The Gods place the enormous mystical burden that is depicted in the
Oedipus Drama, on the shoulders of Judas. Lazarus sustained by
Christ and Judas, takes refuge from the Storm of his soul with the
"In a world of steel-eyed death, and men who are fighting to be warm.
"Come in," she said,
"I'll give you shelter from the storm."
Not a word was spoke between us, there was little risk involved
Everything up to that point had been left unresolved.
Try imagining a place where it's always safe and warm.
"Come in," she said,
"I'll give you shelter from the storm."
I was burned out from exhaustion, buried in the hail,
Poisoned in the bushes an' blown out on the trail,
Hunted like a crocodile, ravaged in the corn.
"Come in," she said,
"I'll give you shelter from the storm."
The legend goes on beyond the death of Judas and comes down the road
to the hard pressed and interesting Augustine. Augustine gets the
model of the Etheric Body of the Christ, a truly wonderful gift and
St. Augustine is the proof of the gift. (now here is again one of
those blank spots where we have no appreciation of just what this
Augustine, according to another bomb dropped by Steiner was Judas
Iskariot. This bomb is a megaload, but you have to be able to slowly
piece together a puzzle. The only way to astonish oneself is to
understand how the Dome and painting of the first Goetheanum and the
research of Steiner is so illuminated by the Fact that Steiner had
the model of the Astral body of Christ. This certainly is like the
COUNTENANCE OF THE SUN as a Michael Fact. Again, this draws a blank,
a blank as to richness of understanding what we are dealing with in
Lets move forward to Dylan. Now I do not know who Dylan was. We do
know that America during the Christ Rising of 1933 a prophet and
poet called Woody Guthrie and Dylan took over the mantle of infusing
the sixties generation, from Woody Guthrie. The generation Dylan
spoke to were most capable of tranforming the Luciferic impulse into
finding the Risen Christ, which is where this list comes in. Now the
question, just the question to all this, as far as legend goes...
Interests me, just to hold in my minds eye, in what direction I
might detect why Dylan is Dylan? And if Dylan along with Guthrie
spoke to the warm etheric forces, the social issues of good and evil
that Augustine wrestled with?
Maybe, as bold as to ask, in theory, the living words of Dylan and
the conflicts of St. Augustine, his interior struggles in social
etheric sense, in common spiritual sense, in the battle for
understanding right and wrong in the etheric body of the sixties and
bringing this as a transformed Augustine philosophy into the stream
of the etheric bodies of the sixties, effectively changed social,
etheric awareness. See, are we onto something here? A gift Dylan
conveyed of seeing deeply past the illusion of what appears right
Well, the series of connections swept like lightening through my
soul. Observing a stunning trail that makes what Steiner brought
about Judas Iskariot, not a myth, but a legend and a historical
factoid that stuns the soul with its intense deep reverberating
insights that carry us all, deeper into the Christ event, and does
something very different to how we understand aspects of Bob Dylan.
But clearly, if we are Michael Students, as Steiner knew we would
be, we would say to ourselves, how do we get from Judas to Augustine
and where might it go fromt there? But how rich is the story, how
stunning the elements already placed as road signs. Do we wish to
read the road signs or remain numbed because we hate to admit it but
WONDER, literally jars the Intellectual Soul off its horse.
Now that, dear friends, Jarring the Intellectual Soul off its high
horse, is exactly what Steiner did, time and time again. That is
exactly what was the experience of St. Paul and Damascus and the
area of Naplus is called, (little Damascus) is about. St. Paul was
knocked off his high horse.
That is exactly, the etheric code, the etheric phrase that was
drummed into me by my very narrow christian upbringing. When ever I
got interested or excited by something, my parents would literally
say to me, as an insult, as they brought some minor infraction into
glaring light, "that ought to knock you off your high horse!". This
is an etheric gesture and an occult picture which is really and
truly related to how the Intellectual Soul is so confident, arrogant
and superior that it can be knocked off its high horse. This is what
Steiner did with nearly every one of his lectures and profound
insights. He knocked us right off our high conceited and arrogant
horses or; on the other hand, we feel the raging urge to dismiss him
so that he does not pollute and cripple the ahrimanic parasite I'm
growing in my soul.
- Dear Bradford,
I have always thought Judas got a bum rap after
contempating how things went down with Satan entering
after the bread sharing with Jesus, and of course the
feet washing as well which included Jesus, meaning
that he has a part of Judas, and Judas He.
And in knowing that Dr. Steiner, calls St. Augustine
Judas, which I have not come across in my travels in
his books, it would seem natural that Christ would
give an imprint of Himself to the very one who ushered
in Christianity: Judas.
Can you please direct me to a book that speaks on
these things regarding the Mother Father Son issue
revolving around Judas. I have never heard of this
before. But it does so fit in with the whole Isis
If Christ can 'forgive' and even give of Himself to
one who supposedly betrayed a human much loved by all
imagine what we are called to in our daily lives.
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> If Christ can 'forgive' and even give of Himself toHey Dottie, your probably getting sick of me sending you Rembrandt pictures
> one who supposedly betrayed a human much loved by all
> imagine what we are called to in our daily lives.
to look at, but check this one out any way:
Seems that Rembrandt had some kind of forgiveness in mind with this
portrayal of Judas.
All the best,
- Mike wrote:
> Hey Dottie, your probably getting sick of me sendingHey Mike,
> you Rembrandt pictures
> to look at, but check this one out any way:
I actually am getting to be fascinated by Rembrandt in
a way. I love that you keep putting him in there for
me to check out. He actually drew the one picture of
Da Vinci's Last Supper that really bespeaks a cosmic
understanding of great wealth. I am going to check out
some more of Rembrandt as soon as I get a chance. What
is the greatest of all Rembrandts work in your mind
pertaining to the Christ?
In looking at the picture offered up I am struck by
the one surrounded by blinding light or actually is
blinding light. What is that all about? Also I am
confused to exactly who is being portrayed as Judas:
is it the one in all black bent down to the left or
the man to the right with his hands in the air. I
checked out two different pictures on the site.
In reading the gospels I clearly felt that Judas was
set up in a way. Then I came to understand that Satan
entered in 'after' Jesus okayed for it to be. It was
on Jesus' word that the final leg of the journey began
and it was with a little push from Jesus as well.
Reminds me a moment of Job in that he was forsaken but
this time it is to further the cause of Christ. Again
I think we also might keep in mind the idea that Judas
indeed was the greatest warrior of the Jewish
Maccabbee family that ends the OT.
Did you get a chance to check out the page I posted
regarding the Beloved Disciple. The page with the
Catholic scholar speaks to an interconnecting idea
that dates back to the OT. I still haven't
contemplated that yet but it is pretty interesting.
All my love,
Do you Yahoo!?
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- Hi Dottie, You wrote:
>WhatThere are so many Dottie that it's hard to really chose. I am struck by one
> is the greatest of all Rembrandts work in your mind
> pertaining to the Christ?
that I can't find online where the Christ-child is the only sorce of light
in the painting.
I also think that a study of his self-portriats over the course of his life,
is a great example of him coming to know the Christ within himself.
> In looking at the picture offered up I am struck byhttp://makeashorterlink.com/?O23221497
> the one surrounded by blinding light or actually is
> blinding light. What is that all about? Also I am
> confused to exactly who is being portrayed as Judas:
> is it the one in all black bent down to the left or
> the man to the right with his hands in the air. I
> checked out two different pictures on the site.
Judas is the one kneeling with his hands clasped and if you can make it out,
there is a look of anguish on his face. He has returned the silver coins to
the treacherous Pharisees, some of which are shunning him, and others are
looking at him in awe, as he begs for forgiveness. Here is a little excerpt
from an essay that I wrote about him a couple of years ago that I called
"Rembrandt and the evolution of Human freedom":
"One of Rembrandt's early paintings is a profound example of the beginnings
of the expression of his own inner freedom: "Judas returning the Thirty
Pieces of silver" was painted when he was just 23 years old. Here is a
picture that is not a typical portrayal of a Biblical theme. In the bottom
center we see soft glancing light cast partially onto the silver pieces that
have been strewn onto the floor by the obviously tormented Judas, who is
kneeling and clutching his hands in anguish. The closest of the group of
treacherous Pharisees who commissioned him is gesturing with his hand and
turning his head in disgust, as he greedily discusses amongst his
conspirators their recent triumph.
Rembrandt's willingness to portray Judas in this manner shows us a not too
common ability to see a traitor as a human being -- a human being who is in
pain and obviously wishing to redeem himself. This is a prime example of an
aspect of inner freedom. A freedom from the one-sidedness of condemnation,
and also the freedom that is offered in the ability to forgive. That
Rembrandt could portray this kind of empathy at such a young age is indeed
> In reading the gospels I clearly felt that Judas wasWow, I didn't know that. It ads quite the significance when you think of it
> set up in a way. Then I came to understand that Satan
> entered in 'after' Jesus okayed for it to be. It was
> on Jesus' word that the final leg of the journey began
> and it was with a little push from Jesus as well.
> Reminds me a moment of Job in that he was forsaken but
> this time it is to further the cause of Christ. Again
> I think we also might keep in mind the idea that Judas
> indeed was the greatest warrior of the Jewish
> Maccabbee family that ends the OT.
>I'm having so much trouble keeping up lately; could you paste it again for
> Did you get a chance to check out the page I posted
> regarding the Beloved Disciple. The page with the
> Catholic scholar speaks to an interconnecting idea
> that dates back to the OT. I still haven't
> contemplated that yet but it is pretty interesting.
Truth and Love