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Re: Truth and madness

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  • Theodor Grekenquist
    ... People who blur the distinction between knowledge and imagination so much that they do not see the difference, suffer from schizophrenia, or other
    Message 1 of 2 , May 1, 2006
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      Hello elfuncle, you wrote:

      >You seem to suggest that schizophrenic madness has characterized
      >very many prominent people through history, and that spirituality or
      >religiousness is some sort of mental disease.

      People who blur the distinction between knowledge and imagination so
      much that they do not see the difference, suffer from schizophrenia,
      or other pathologies closely related to schizophrenia.

      >I understand that you have an issue with this epistemology, that you
      >also would characterize this as some sort of madness, part and
      >parcel of the schizophrenic condition??

      What I find admirable and remarkable in Rudolf Steiner, was his
      ability to contain his rather extreme schizophrenia through a
      tremendous self-control, which helped him refrain from irrational and
      pathological behavior. In his younger years, he did everything he
      could think of to resolve his mental problem. One of these endeavors
      was to invent an epistemology that he thought would fit his visions.
      This epistemology has been examined by philosophers and scientists
      and rejected. But for Steiner it became a useful crutch to justify
      his irrational condition by passing it off as something rational, to
      himself at least.

      >So Jesus Christ was also a (benign?) schizophrenic megalomaniac; am
      >I reading you right?

      Absolutely. To a tee. That is, if Jesus Christ is a historical person
      who really lived. We do not know that. But hypothetically speaking,
      if he did live and also said those things the Bible claim he said, we
      are dealing with the most astounding case of schizophrenic
      megalomania in history. He bloated himself up to fantastic
      importance, being the life and the way and the only truth with power
      over life and death for every human being, talking about moving
      mountains and controlling the weather. It is understandable that the
      Romans were disturbed by him, because if he had not been killed, he
      would have become the most memorable of all emperors.

      Theodor Grekenquist
      http://www.skeptic.com/
    • nadmateescu
      Actually, I think Tarjei knew allready the results of this question: Tarjei : So Jesus Christ was also a (benign?) schizophrenic megalomaniac; am I reading you
      Message 2 of 2 , May 2, 2006
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        Actually, I think Tarjei knew allready the results of this question:
        Tarjei :"So Jesus Christ was also a (benign?) schizophrenic
        megalomaniac; am I reading you right?

        Theodor :"Absolutely. To a tee. That is, if Jesus Christ is a
        historical person who really lived. We do not know that. But
        hypothetically speaking,
        if he did live and also said those things the Bible claim he said, we
        are dealing with the most astounding case of schizophrenic
        megalomania in history."

        Now, I am not sure that something new under the sun is happening
        with this answer.

        "The idea that creativity and psychopathology are somehow linked
        goes way back to antiquity--to the time of Aristotle. Centuries
        later, this belief was developed and expanded by various
        psychiatrists, psychoanalysts and psychologists."
        From : Are Genius and Madness Related? Contemporary Answers to an
        Ancient Question
        By Dean Keith Simonton, Ph.D.
        Dr. Simonton is distinguished professor of psychology at the
        University of California, Davis, and author of nearly 300
        publications concerning various aspects of genius, creativity and
        leadership. His most recent book is Creativity in Science: Chance,
        Logic, Genius, and Zeitgeist, published by Cambridge University
        Press in 2004.

        Another ZeitGeist thing....

        So, Anthro-wolverines like Bradford (Holderlin), like Steve, founded
        their noble madness on what humanity now call "madness".
        It was tipically and I salute the snickers of Holderlin; I left
        also, Steve's clear insights in the Mithraic mysteries.
        So, when all this had begun?

        I think Holderlin knew the Creator of these schisms."The Oedipal
        Threshold and Intimate Strangers" is a work to bridge the gap
        between Freud's understanding of Oedipus and Steiner's by examining
        the arrival of new recognition that can be regained in the soul when
        we face I AM awarness in the pauline Sense.
        But with what Bradford works? With the I AM foundations...terrible
        things to Critics...

        I left Steve's light on Mithraic mysteries when he said :
        "And when John met his cousin Jesus at the Jordan River, and the
        Christ Spirit descended, the river began to flow in the opposite
        direction. This also refers to this out-of-sequence event as its
        concrete proof; for those that need proofs."

        What a skeptic proof...dear Steve
        Physicists have made water run uphill quite literally under its own
        steam.
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4955398.stm

        So, I ask again, where Genius divided into the pathological realm?

        "As their correspondence shows, Freud and Jung did not see eye to
        eye on the meaning of the Mithraic mysteries. And their disagreement
        over the tauroctony is a telling sign of dominance of Mithraism over
        psychoanalysis in Jung's own personal symbolic system. In a letter
        sent in June 1910, a month after Jung's first public lecture on the
        psychological interpretation of mythological and Mithraic material,
        Freud offered Jung his interpretation of the bull slaying: It
        was "the killing of the animal ego by the human ego, as the
        mythological projection of repression, in which the sublimated part
        of the human being (the conscious ego) sacrifices (regretfully) its
        vigorous drives."

        Jung disagreed. Instead, he told Freud, "there must be something
        very typical in the fact that the central symbol of fecundity, the
        useful and generally accepted (not censored) alter ego of Mithras
        (the bull) is slain by another sexual symbol. The self-sacrifice is
        voluntary and involuntary at once (the same conflict as in the death
        of Christ)."
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