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Letting Them All through the Door

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  • Anastasy
    Hi All: With all due respect, could we raise the bar here and improve the quality of dialogue a bit more? I love it when true conversation unfolds here. I m
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 30, 2006
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      Hi All:

      With all due respect, could we raise the bar here and improve the
      quality of dialogue a bit more? I love it when true conversation
      unfolds here.

      I'm no sheep, but as time flies, I have less and less time for
      unfounded attacks on R.S. Been there, done that, fielded those
      objections. Engaging in polemic gets one nowhere.

      I must say that there are some quite brilliant people here and I enjoy
      their insights and encourage them to continue discussing edifying
      questions about spiritual science.

      Cheers,
      Anastasy
    • Theodor Grekenquist
      ... I agree. A clear distinction ought to be made between attacks against Rudolf Steiner, which are indeed unfounded when they focus on his character and
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 30, 2006
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        Anastasy wrote:

        >With all due respect, could we raise the bar here and improve the
        >quality of dialogue a bit more? I love it when true conversation
        >unfolds here.
        >
        >I'm no sheep, but as time flies, I have less and less time for
        >unfounded attacks on R.S. Been there, done that, fielded those
        >objections. Engaging in polemic gets one nowhere.

        I agree. A clear distinction ought to be made between attacks against
        Rudolf Steiner, which are indeed unfounded when they focus on his
        character and morals, and criticism of what he stood for. I mean
        intelligent critique of his work that is not based on emotions and
        antipathy and sympathy. Objective critique.

        >I must say that there are some quite brilliant people here and I
        >enjoy their insights and encourage them to continue discussing
        >edifying questions about spiritual science.

        I agree with that assessment also, been subscribing to Anthroposophy
        Tomorrow for two years, not only because of the entertainment and the
        information I pick up but because Rudolf Steiner has interested me
        for a long time. When Ron Howard's movie about John Nash came out, my
        interest in Steiner increased. Those two men had a lot in common:
        They were both geniuses who suffered from schizophrenia. They were
        benign and kind and harmless, both these men, held in affection and
        respect among those who knew them.

        The differences between Nash and Steiner are very interesting. Nash
        ran into a head-on collision between his illusions and reality, which
        forced him to discontinue his belief in those illusions. Steiner was
        successful throughout his life to maintain a notional system he
        linked to a home-spun epistemology that enabled him to prevent his
        worlds from colliding like in Nash's case, and this was a very
        astounding accomplishment. Through this remarkable method of
        rationalizing the irrational, he not only managed to remain
        personally convinced that his madness was objective, scientific truth
        and carve out a career on this stuff, he even drew followers among
        his contemporaries and posterity who made it their missions in life
        to emulate his pathology! This is impossible, of course, unless one
        is first able to duplicate the chemical imbalances in Steiner's brain
        and also duplicate his suppressed, traumatic childhood experiences
        that we know no details about.

        Does this mean that I think all religious people are mad? Far from
        it. Normal religious people distinguish between subjective belief,
        faith, and objective scientific knowledge. Their understanding of
        science is usually weak. If this was not weak, they would acknowledge
        that science has indeed proven that human consciousness comes from
        biological evolution, and that biological evolution has its origin in
        chemistry, not in gods and angels. Neuro-science has also discovered
        that our experience of consciousness or the so-called "I"-feeling is
        caused by electric movements in specific brain cells.

        The acknowledgement of this truth should make us feel proud of being
        members of the human race. We have arisen from star dust into masters
        of ths earth and soon to be masters of other planets. Religious
        fanatics who regard their theologies not as beliefs but as
        certainties or absolute knowledge, rage against scientific truth and
        become Muslim suicidal terrorists or Christian warmongering state
        terrorists. This does not mean that there are secret brotherhoods
        that nobody has ever seen, like Rudolf Steiner was going on about.
        This was the closest that Steiner ever came to PARANOID
        schizophrenia. Steiner's secret brotherhoods are like John Nash's
        G-men, KGB and all that. If Nash had simply said to his students like
        Steiner did, "I am only telling you about the existence of these
        plots" and left it at that, he would not have ended up in a mental
        ward on medication.

        Although Steiner was a benign, harmless schizophrenic because he was
        a good, moral, and idealistic human being, the same cannot be said
        for all the others out there. Osama bin Laden and George W Bush are
        dangerous believers. Most wars are caused by religious delusions
        among malignant schizophrenics, just look at the Middle East. Steiner
        wanted world peace by making everyone as crazy as he was, living in
        the same illusions, but the only possible way to world peace is
        getting rid of superstition, religion, occultism, and so-called
        spirituality and New Age.

        People on this list like poetry and lyrics, and I would like to close
        my post with a few lines by John Lennon:

        "Imagine there's no heaven
        It's easy if you try
        No hell below us
        Above us only sky
        Imagine all the people
        Living for today...

        "Imagine there's no countries
        It isn't hard to do
        Nothing to kill or die for
        And no religion too
        Imagine all the people
        Living life in peace..."

        My best wishes to you all,

        Theodor Grekenquist
        http://www.skeptic.com/
      • Frank Smith
        ... Hi, Theodor, I checked out the skeptic site and didn t find your name there. Nor does Steiner pop up in the search. Is your slip showing? Pardon my
        Message 3 of 10 , May 1, 2006
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          --- Theodor Grekenquist <grekenquist@...> wrote:

          > and so-called
          > spirituality and New Age.
          >
          > People on this list like poetry and lyrics, and I
          > would like to close
          > my post with a few lines by John Lennon:
          >
          > "Imagine there's no heaven
          > It's easy if you try
          > No hell below us
          > Above us only sky
          > Imagine all the people
          > Living for today...
          >
          > "Imagine there's no countries
          > It isn't hard to do
          > Nothing to kill or die for
          > And no religion too
          > Imagine all the people
          > Living life in peace..."
          >
          > My best wishes to you all,
          >
          > Theodor Grekenquist
          > http://www.skeptic.com/
          >

          Hi, Theodor,
          I checked out the skeptic site and didn't find your
          name there. Nor does Steiner pop up in the search. Is
          your slip showing? Pardon my skeptic.
          Best wishes to you, too.
          Vincent von Gurke

          Frank Thomas Smith
          http://SouthernCrossReview.org

          __________________________________________________
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        • Theodor Grekenquist
          ... I do not understand your question, Frank. I use the site-link because it tells what I stand for. I do not have a website, and I have not written anything
          Message 4 of 10 , May 1, 2006
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            Hello Frank, you wrote:

            >Hi, Theodor,
            >I checked out the skeptic site and didn't find your name there. Nor
            >does Steiner pop up in the search. Is your slip showing?

            I do not understand your question, Frank. I use the site-link because
            it tells what I stand for. I do not have a website, and I have not
            written anything about Steiner.


            Theodor Grekenquist
            http://www.skeptic.com/
          • Frank Smith
            ... Well, Theodor, since you don t understand my question, I ll explain it. Under your signature, i.e., PART of it, the name of that magazine appears. One
            Message 5 of 10 , May 2, 2006
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              --- Theodor Grekenquist <grekenquist@...> wrote:

              > Hello Frank, you wrote:
              >
              > >Hi, Theodor,
              > >I checked out the skeptic site and didn't find your
              > name there. Nor
              > >does Steiner pop up in the search. Is your slip
              > showing?
              >
              > I do not understand your question, Frank. I use the
              > site-link because
              > it tells what I stand for. I do not have a website,
              > and I have not
              > written anything about Steiner.
              >
              >
              > Theodor Grekenquist
              > http://www.skeptic.com/
              >
              Well, Theodor, since you don't understand my question,
              I'll explain it. Under your signature, i.e., PART of
              it, the name of that magazine appears. One therefore
              understands that the site is yours or at least partly
              yours. As I found no reference to you at the site,
              however, I questioned you. You say you put the site
              there becasue it tells what you stand for. Imo this is
              dishonest. Yet you admit it openly. Therefore I
              suspect a split personality, a trait of schizophrenia.
              You identify with the owners of Skeptic, probably even
              think you are them. When called on it, however, you
              calmly revert to apparent normalcy. This is also your
              attutude towards R. Steiner, first calling him a
              megalomaniac, then a nice benign guy in the same
              sentence. I suggest you need help, Theodor, and you've
              come to the right place to get it. How many names do
              you use, btw, and how many of them are the real you?

              Yours,
              Frank

              Frank Thomas Smith
              http://SouthernCrossReview.org

              __________________________________________________
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            • grekenquist
              ... That is for meek, benign, innocent, and benevolent sheep like myself to know and for malignant, ravenous anthro-wolves and malevolent, furry anthro-pirates
              Message 6 of 10 , May 2, 2006
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                --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Frank Smith
                <eltrigal78@...> wrote:

                > How many names do
                > you use, btw, and how many of them are the real you?

                That is for meek, benign, innocent, and benevolent sheep like myself
                to know and for malignant, ravenous anthro-wolves and malevolent,
                furry anthro-pirates like yourself and Terence and others of your ilk
                to find out.

                Theodor Grekenquist
                http://www.skeptic.com
              • Terence
                ... Ah! The *real* you has just revealed himself! Say no more. We all now KNOW who you are. Thanx! Terence
                Message 7 of 10 , May 2, 2006
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                  --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "grekenquist" <grekenquist@...>
                  wrote:

                  > That is for meek, benign, innocent, and benevolent sheep like myself
                  > to know and for malignant, ravenous anthro-wolves and malevolent,
                  > furry anthro-pirates like yourself and Terence and others of your ilk
                  > to find out.

                  Ah! The *real* you has just revealed himself! Say
                  no more. We all now KNOW who you are.

                  Thanx!

                  Terence
                • Terence
                  ... Frank, in all my years, not that many for sure, but long enuf to make this statement: I have never been referred to as an *ilk!* Have you? Terence
                  Message 8 of 10 , May 2, 2006
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                    --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "grekenquist" <grekenquist@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Frank Smith
                    > <eltrigal78@> wrote:
                    >
                    > > How many names do
                    > > you use, btw, and how many of them are the real you?
                    >
                    > That is for meek, benign, innocent, and benevolent sheep like myself
                    > to know and for malignant, ravenous anthro-wolves and malevolent,
                    > furry anthro-pirates like yourself and Terence and others of your ilk
                    > to find out.

                    Frank, in all my years, not that many for sure, but
                    long enuf to make this statement: I have never been
                    referred to as an *ilk!* Have you?

                    Terence
                  • Frank Smith
                    ... Frank: How many names do ... Theodor Grekentwist: That is for meek, benign, innocent, and benevolent ... Frank: Aha! I love a mystery. So we shall attempt
                    Message 9 of 10 , May 2, 2006
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                      --- grekenquist <grekenquist@...> wrote:

                      > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Frank
                      > Smith
                      > <eltrigal78@...> wrote:
                      >
                      Frank: How many names do
                      > > you use, btw, and how many of them are the real
                      > you?
                      >
                      Theodor Grekentwist: That is for meek, benign,
                      innocent, and benevolent
                      > sheep like myself
                      > to know and for malignant, ravenous anthro-wolves
                      > and malevolent,
                      > furry anthro-pirates like yourself and Terence and
                      > others of your ilk
                      > to find out.

                      Frank: Aha! I love a mystery. So we shall attempt to
                      solve it. Whom do we know, fellow anthro-wolves, who
                      would describe themselves as "meek, benign, innocent,
                      benevolent sheep" but who have more psycho-twists than
                      a lemniscate pretzel? Grekentwist's style has a
                      familiar ring, but I can't quite place it - yet. An
                      evening bowl of opium may help.




                      Frank Thomas Smith
                      http://SouthernCrossReview.org

                      __________________________________________________
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                      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                    • Mike T
                      Frank, Not only Schizophrenic here, but some form of paranoi creeping through. Now this mild mannered sheep is starting to show some of his clinting teeth.
                      Message 10 of 10 , May 2, 2006
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                        Frank, Not only Schizophrenic here, but some form of paranoi creeping
                        through. Now this mild mannered sheep is starting to show some of his
                        clinting teeth.
                        Mike T

                        >From: "grekenquist" <grekenquist@...>
                        >Reply-To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                        >To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                        >Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Letting Them All through the Door
                        >Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 17:32:35 -0000
                        >
                        >--- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Frank Smith
                        ><eltrigal78@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > How many names do
                        > > you use, btw, and how many of them are the real you?
                        >
                        >That is for meek, benign, innocent, and benevolent sheep like myself
                        >to know and for malignant, ravenous anthro-wolves and malevolent,
                        >furry anthro-pirates like yourself and Terence and others of your ilk
                        >to find out.
                        >
                        >Theodor Grekenquist
                        >http://www.skeptic.com
                        >
                        >
                        >

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