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'The Crucifixion of Pete'

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  • Thefourbee
    At http://lists.topica.com/lists/waldorf-critics/read/message.html?mid=1720127368 Pete now tells how he, as an Orthodox Christian, planned to celebrate Easter
    Message 1 of 22 , Apr 24 3:56 AM
      At
      http://lists.topica.com/lists/waldorf-critics/read/message.html?mid=1720127368
      Pete now tells how he, as an Orthodox Christian, planned to celebrate
      Easter yesterday, and how 21 April was his own personal Good Friday.

      Reflecting on the crucifixion of Christ, he found himself in a
      crucifixion of his own on that very same day, here on AT.

      First expressing his wish here to pee in Mike T's mouth on Tue, 18 Apr,
      then acting as if he owned the list and this was his very own personal
      home where he ruled on Fri, 21 Apr, getting booted for this the same
      day, and finally complaining on the WC on Sat, Apr 22 about it,
      comparing himself to Christ, being crucified here, for not being allowed
      to do that, telling:

      *Look ma, they hit me!* to ignite and feed an uproar on the WC, as he
      thinks it's been dull there lately.

      He DOES crave for attention.

      As a consoling response, Walden comments that people HERE clearly have
      problems, and Pete thanks him for it, telling how this banning only
      makes more determined to get his story out, as if he has not done that
      already some 100 times in a number of different forums, before the
      banning.

      Some storyteller.

      Henry
    • Tarjei Straume
      ... This is good! A few of the people of Anthroposophy Tomorrowland heard Pete’s words, and those who did not fear their own god or their neighbors, asked
      Message 2 of 22 , Apr 24 5:04 AM
        Henry wrote:

        >At
        >http://lists.topica.com/lists/waldorf-critics/read/message.html?mid=1720127368
        >Pete now tells how he, as an Orthodox Christian,
        >planned to celebrate Easter yesterday, and how
        >21 April was his own personal Good Friday.
        >
        >Reflecting on the crucifixion of Christ, he
        >found himself in a crucifixion of his own on that very same day, here on AT.

        This is good!

        "A few of the people of Anthroposophy
        Tomorrowland heard Pete’s words, and those who
        did not fear their own god or their neighbors,
        asked to hear more. The more Pete spoke, the more
        attention he attracted, and soon the kings of
        Scandinavia began to worry that the words he
        spoke might not be so easily rejected by the
        people – in fact, they feared that his words were making sense."

        Highly recommended.

        Tarjei
      • Tarjei Straume
        The residents of the Unthinkable Facility are not very imaginative; they have to borrow our literary devices all the time. Someone should get them for
        Message 3 of 22 , Apr 24 6:16 AM
          The residents of the Unthinkable Facility are not very imaginative; they have to borrow our literary devices all the time. Someone should get them for plagiarism, if the plagiarism hadn't been so amateruish and unsuccessful.

          Walden supports Pete by trying to describe the AT as a mantal ward with patients needing therapy. Looks familiar? Pete's crucifiction story looks good at first sight, but a second look reveals that he's stolen the concept from "Christine in Criticsland" a little over two years ago:


          http://www.uncletaz.com/at/febmar04/christincrit.html

          Christine in Criticsland

          Anthroposophy Tomorrow is the place to be,
          where topics are open and speech is free.
          It's aimed at the future, but anything goes -
          And where we are headed, Lucifer knows :)

          If Steiner and Waldorf is something for you,
          and you'd like a nice trip to Lemuria too,
          You've come to the right place where action is wild -
          You can write like a scholar or play like a child!

          Christ calms the storm every once in a while,
          but choking its life out is not quite his style -
          So the waves go a-roarin', the winds keep a-blowin',
          and where it's all headed is Lucifer's knowin'

          Our ship is on course, though, with foodstuffs and spices,
          surrounded by vessels in cloaking devices -
          Enemies, pirates, and sharks in the ocean
          are waiting for blood dripping from the commotion.

          Someone complains, "Let's sail home, Mama Mia!"
          "Get your ass off my bridge!" yells Captain Sophia,
          "Get out on the deck; you can walk off those planks
          "and get eaten by sharks if you don't join their ranks!"

          Our sybils hear voices and write their long tomes
          about visions experienced far from their homes.
          Our poets chime in and quote Byron and Keats,
          and Shakeapeare's onboard showing off a few feats.

          But then comes Christine, another loose cannon
          whose forwarded warnings are never abandoned -
          She flies like a fireball up in the air
          and crashlands full blast in the reptiles' own lair.

          Welcome, says Dugan, I'm so glad you came -
          You're invited to dinner, our course is the same:
          Some stew made of roaches, a huge roasted rodent,
          and a shot of Critics' Brandy; it's awfully potent.

          To rescue Christine, our ship hits the Nile
          where the crocs float like lumber and give us a smile,
          hopin' to POUNCE once you touch the fresh water,
          By the banks are the snakes waiting for their next order.

          "Hey Christine!" we shout, "Come let's pull you on deck!!
          "I'd love to," she says, "But I can't; I'm a wreck!
          "Leave without me! Get going! Sail back to your sharks!
          "You cannot stay here in Jurassic Park!"

          Diana is puzzled, because she's been told
          she's a snake or a goblin or something else cold -
          She keeps lookin' around and ponderin' aloud
          if being a Tyrannicus would make her more proud?



        • Mike helsher
          ... The only Problem I see is that some People on this list have a hard time sucking up to orthodox duelistic simplicity. Which is something I ve noticed that
          Message 4 of 22 , Apr 24 4:29 PM
            >
            > As a consoling response, Walden comments that people HERE clearly have
            > problems, and Pete thanks him for it, telling how this banning only
            > makes more determined to get his story out, as if he has not done that
            > already some 100 times in a number of different forums, before the
            > banning.
            >
            > Some storyteller.
            >
            > Henry
            >
            The only Problem I see is that some People on this list have a hard
            time sucking up to orthodox duelistic simplicity. Which is something
            I've noticed that most rudundant critics of anthroworld are so stuck
            in. It's pathetic really and kinda sad. And I think a good sign that
            someone is suffering from orthodox duelistic simplicity is when they
            start diagnosing others who they think are mental cases and "need
            therepy", instead of saying "we need therepy" Or "I need therepy." I've
            been to about 10 different therepists over the past twenty years and
            today I think that only one of them was any good, because he was the
            one that asked the question "What would it be like to not have to come
            to therepy?" The rest were Orthodox duelistic simpltons that were
            basically following orders.

            I don't know if anyone needs therepy, but I do think that if you get
            and orthodox duelistic simplton in a place where the plumbing is
            unplumbable and they stay there for way to long...well it just cant all
            to be good.

            Mike
          • Mike helsher
            ... all ... that last line should read: well it just can t be all that good tis what happens when the dogs are barking and the kids are barking and the wifey
            Message 5 of 22 , Apr 24 4:35 PM
              I wrote:
              > I don't know if anyone needs therepy, but I do think that if you get
              > and orthodox duelistic simplton in a place where the plumbing is
              > unplumbable and they stay there for way to long...well it just cant
              all
              > to be good.
              >
              > Mike
              >
              that last line should read: "well it just can't be all that good"

              tis what happens when the dogs are barking and the kids are barking and
              the wifey is barking, all at the same time...:)

              Mike
            • elfuncle
              ... come ... It took you twenty years to go to only 10 therapists? I m sure there are people here who beat you by a long shot, assuming, of course, that you re
              Message 6 of 22 , Apr 25 5:26 AM
                Mike helsher wrote:

                > I've
                > been to about 10 different therepists over the past twenty years and
                > today I think that only one of them was any good, because he was the
                > one that asked the question "What would it be like to not have to
                come
                > to therepy?"

                It took you twenty years to go to only 10 therapists? I'm sure there
                are people here who beat you by a long shot, assuming, of course, that
                you're talking about e-groups. The last of the two decades anyway; e-
                groups and newsgroups had their humble beginnings in the eighties in
                some isolated academic university and research circles, but I don't
                think they evolved into therapy centers until the internet emerged and
                became widespread.

                So the question you're raising for all of us is, "What would it be
                like to not have to come to the AT?"

                Maybe we should make a poll out of that one?

                Tarjei
              • Steve Hale
                ... wrote: ... Let s get serious here for a second. My conception of AT, and my subsequent participation in its labyrinth of divergent urgents, has
                Message 7 of 22 , Apr 25 4:45 PM
                  --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <reefer@...>
                  wrote:
                  <snip>
                  > So the question you're raising for all of us is, "What would it be
                  > like to not have to come to the AT?"
                  >
                  > Maybe we should make a poll out of that one?
                  >
                  > Tarjei

                  Let's get serious here for a second. My conception of AT, and my
                  subsequent participation in its labyrinth of divergent urgents, has
                  always had one thing uppermost in mind. One idea, and only one, has
                  served to impel my activity herein on this list that contains some of
                  the most powerful free thinkers to grace the spiritland of
                  anthroposophy on earth. And that idea involves my own conception of
                  anarchosophy, which you adhere license to, as the owner of its name
                  coinage. And I will certainly give you that. But to me,
                  Anarchosophy, and let's give it a capital 'A'for the proper effect, is
                  the driver of Anthroposophy Tomorrow because we're in the midst of a
                  battle for the cosmic intelligence, which should also be capitalized,
                  but due to my inherent humility on this day, I will avoid doing.

                  Thus, as I see it, and I must, in order to be truthful to the I-Am
                  which constitutes this most unique of all incarnations in the past two
                  thousand years, Anarchosophy represents the bridge between
                  Anthroposophy, which is of the past, and Psychosophy, which is of the
                  present. And this means that the Battle for the Cosmic Intelligence,
                  (oops, sorry) exists as the catalyst and motive power to effect the
                  impulsations of the head man, which anthroposophy subscribes to, in the
                  direction of the heart man, which psychosophy seeks to bring up to the
                  surface. And this battle, which is a living battle of profound soul-
                  spiritual implications, is the driver here at this point of the
                  Consciousness Soul Age.

                  Steve
                • elfuncle
                  ... name ... Nobody has monopoly on a word or its meaning, regardless of who coined it. So of course anyone can have their own conception of any word, and even
                  Message 8 of 22 , Apr 25 5:57 PM
                    Steve Hale wrote:

                    > And that idea involves my own conception of
                    > anarchosophy, which you adhere license to, as the owner of its
                    name
                    > coinage.

                    Nobody has monopoly on a word or its meaning, regardless of who
                    coined it. So of course anyone can have their own conception of any
                    word, and even when dictionaries list definitions, one can always
                    add to them and even make one's own language with a new grammar.
                    Tolkien did that with Elfish.

                    > And I will certainly give you that. But to me,
                    > Anarchosophy, and let's give it a capital 'A'for the proper
                    effect, is
                    > the driver of Anthroposophy Tomorrow because we're in the midst of
                    a
                    > battle for the cosmic intelligence, which should also be
                    capitalized,
                    > but due to my inherent humility on this day, I will avoid doing.
                    >
                    > Thus, as I see it, and I must, in order to be truthful to the I-Am
                    > which constitutes this most unique of all incarnations in the past
                    two
                    > thousand years, Anarchosophy represents the bridge between
                    > Anthroposophy, which is of the past, and Psychosophy, which is of
                    the
                    > present.

                    Your words and their definitons and combinations are as good as
                    anybody else's. Bobby Matherne has made his "Doyletics", Ron Hubbard
                    created "dianetics", and I've made "Tazism", which I can always
                    resort to if "anarchosophy" is hijacked and changed into meanings I
                    don't relate to, and if "Tazism" is hijacked as well, I'll find new
                    words. It's only words, words, and semantics - all of it.

                    I guess I'm an antique fossil of sorts, sticking to anthropospophy
                    (of the past) and not being hip and modern enough to recognize that
                    psychosophy has taken over and replaced it long ago.

                    > And this means that the Battle for the Cosmic Intelligence,
                    > (oops, sorry) exists as the catalyst and motive power to effect
                    the
                    > impulsations of the head man, which anthroposophy subscribes to,
                    in the
                    > direction of the heart man, which psychosophy seeks to bring up to
                    the
                    > surface.

                    Personally, I find anthroposophy bringing the heart man to the
                    surface too, but to a real up-to-date psychosophist, I probably
                    sound like someone singin' "Gimme that old time anthroposophy, it
                    was good enough for granddad, so it's good enough for me."

                    > And this battle, which is a living battle of profound soul-
                    > spiritual implications, is the driver here at this point of the
                    > Consciousness Soul Age.

                    You have to be tolerant of me, because I'm stuck in the Intellectual
                    Soul Age with St. Francis and Aquinas and St. Augustine and Martin
                    Luther. I have a fear of heights, and they keep me from dizziness.

                    Tarjei
                  • Steve Hale
                    Well, I have found, if you truly take anthroposophy to heart, it goes to the next level of development. And it is very serious and solemn because it involves
                    Message 9 of 22 , Apr 25 6:13 PM
                      Well, I have found, if you truly take anthroposophy to heart, it
                      goes to the next level of development. And it is very serious and
                      solemn because it involves real concerns for the soul development of
                      man. Real shit, Taz. Did I wake your flea-bag carcass up at all?
                      Nah. Of course not. Why waste time on responding if you're going
                      to be a moron about it. So what if you're AT moderator. Fuck you
                      for these dumb ass comments.

                      Steve

                      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle"
                      <reefer@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Steve Hale wrote:
                      >
                      > > And that idea involves my own conception of
                      > > anarchosophy, which you adhere license to, as the owner of its
                      > name
                      > > coinage.
                      >
                      > Nobody has monopoly on a word or its meaning, regardless of who
                      > coined it. So of course anyone can have their own conception of
                      any
                      > word, and even when dictionaries list definitions, one can always
                      > add to them and even make one's own language with a new grammar.
                      > Tolkien did that with Elfish.
                      >
                      > > And I will certainly give you that. But to me,
                      > > Anarchosophy, and let's give it a capital 'A'for the proper
                      > effect, is
                      > > the driver of Anthroposophy Tomorrow because we're in the midst
                      of
                      > a
                      > > battle for the cosmic intelligence, which should also be
                      > capitalized,
                      > > but due to my inherent humility on this day, I will avoid doing.
                      > >
                      > > Thus, as I see it, and I must, in order to be truthful to the I-
                      Am
                      > > which constitutes this most unique of all incarnations in the
                      past
                      > two
                      > > thousand years, Anarchosophy represents the bridge between
                      > > Anthroposophy, which is of the past, and Psychosophy, which is
                      of
                      > the
                      > > present.
                      >
                      > Your words and their definitons and combinations are as good as
                      > anybody else's. Bobby Matherne has made his "Doyletics", Ron
                      Hubbard
                      > created "dianetics", and I've made "Tazism", which I can always
                      > resort to if "anarchosophy" is hijacked and changed into meanings
                      I
                      > don't relate to, and if "Tazism" is hijacked as well, I'll find
                      new
                      > words. It's only words, words, and semantics - all of it.
                      >
                      > I guess I'm an antique fossil of sorts, sticking to anthropospophy
                      > (of the past) and not being hip and modern enough to recognize
                      that
                      > psychosophy has taken over and replaced it long ago.
                      >
                      > > And this means that the Battle for the Cosmic Intelligence,
                      > > (oops, sorry) exists as the catalyst and motive power to effect
                      > the
                      > > impulsations of the head man, which anthroposophy subscribes to,
                      > in the
                      > > direction of the heart man, which psychosophy seeks to bring up
                      to
                      > the
                      > > surface.
                      >
                      > Personally, I find anthroposophy bringing the heart man to the
                      > surface too, but to a real up-to-date psychosophist, I probably
                      > sound like someone singin' "Gimme that old time anthroposophy, it
                      > was good enough for granddad, so it's good enough for me."
                      >
                      > > And this battle, which is a living battle of profound soul-
                      > > spiritual implications, is the driver here at this point of the
                      > > Consciousness Soul Age.
                      >
                      > You have to be tolerant of me, because I'm stuck in the
                      Intellectual
                      > Soul Age with St. Francis and Aquinas and St. Augustine and Martin
                      > Luther. I have a fear of heights, and they keep me from dizziness.
                      >
                      > Tarjei
                      >
                    • winters_diana
                      Oops. I have just been saying what a gentleman you are, Steve.
                      Message 10 of 22 , Apr 25 6:50 PM
                        Oops. I have just been saying what a gentleman you are, Steve.

                        >Real shit, Taz. Did I wake your flea-bag carcass up at all?
                        >Nah. Of course not. Why waste time on responding if you're going
                        >to be a moron about it. So what if you're AT moderator. Fuck you
                        >for these dumb ass comments.
                      • Steve Hale
                        Yes, and I am. But Tarjei is just such a condescending old, oh what?. I guess it would be: an intellectual soul type! There, I ve said it. He s stuck in the
                        Message 11 of 22 , Apr 25 7:03 PM
                          Yes, and I am. But Tarjei is just such a condescending old, oh what?.
                          I guess it would be: an intellectual soul type! There, I've said it.
                          He's stuck in the old age with Frank Smith, with pride. And if you
                          knew anything about anthroposophy, you would get this. But you don't,
                          so skip these comments because they concern matters you know nothing
                          about. It's a spiritual science thing, not related to Waldorf.

                          Steve

                          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "winters_diana"
                          <diana.winters@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Oops. I have just been saying what a gentleman you are, Steve.
                        • anarchosophia
                          Dear Steve, ... List management is off-topic. This is your only warning. Faithfully, Sophia (moderator) http://www.geocities.com/anarchosophia/
                          Message 12 of 22 , Apr 25 9:30 PM
                            Dear Steve,

                            You wrote to Tarjei:

                            > So what if you're AT moderator.

                            List management is off-topic. This is your only warning.

                            Faithfully,

                            Sophia (moderator)
                            http://www.geocities.com/anarchosophia/
                          • Steve Hale
                            ... Well, then I suggest you tell Tarjei to take a laxative or two because I don t give a shit about list management. Hey, maybe that s why I have good bowel
                            Message 13 of 22 , Apr 26 7:33 PM
                              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "anarchosophia"
                              <anarchosophia@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Dear Steve,
                              >
                              > You wrote to Tarjei:
                              >
                              > > So what if you're AT moderator.
                              >
                              > List management is off-topic. This is your only warning.
                              >
                              > Faithfully,
                              >
                              > Sophia (moderator)
                              > http://www.geocities.com/anarchosophia/

                              Well, then I suggest you tell Tarjei to take a laxative or two because
                              I don't give a shit about list management. Hey, maybe that's why I
                              have good bowel movements. If you know Tarjei, please tell him to
                              relax and concentrate on pushing it out. It could relieve the strain
                              on his overly clever brain, which he wastes time on. He needs to
                              concentrate on removing his bodily waste. That is the problem.

                              Just Saying,

                              Steve
                            • Klaus Tue
                              ... because ... I ... strain ... hey dude bulls eye with the dopeuncle this time, he dont know what lists hes on half the time and i did some diggin and guess
                              Message 14 of 22 , Apr 28 2:48 PM
                                --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale"
                                <sardisian01@...> wrote:

                                > Well, then I suggest you tell Tarjei to take a laxative or two
                                because
                                > I don't give a shit about list management. Hey, maybe that's why
                                I
                                > have good bowel movements. If you know Tarjei, please tell him to
                                > relax and concentrate on pushing it out. It could relieve the
                                strain
                                > on his overly clever brain, which he wastes time on. He needs to
                                > concentrate on removing his bodily waste. That is the problem.
                                >
                                > Just Saying,
                                >
                                > Steve

                                hey dude bulls eye with the dopeuncle this time, he dont know what
                                lists hes on half the time and i did some diggin and guess what i
                                found out, never ever trust that acidhead cause he publishes
                                everything you privately like he did to you in january 2004 when his
                                silly potsmokin sidekick christine kept polluting this list with
                                chickenshit and why the chicken crossed the road and you wrote to
                                tarjei dopeuncle:

                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/message/1564

                                in that message you said you were starting a forum called Spiritual
                                Science Today but i cant seem to find it and im not interested in
                                spiritual science or anthroposophy anyway except studying what
                                theyre thinkin cause a lot of them are potsmokers and acidheads and
                                uncle taz is the worst so if you give him one between the eyes do
                                that for me too and u have my blessing even if yer an anthro yerself.

                                Klaus Tue
                              • write3chairs
                                ... Like a day without sunshine? No wait. If I didn t *have* to come? That would mean I had been cured and no longer needed therapy, in which case I d have to
                                Message 15 of 22 , Apr 29 8:09 PM
                                  --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" wrote:

                                  > "What would it be like to not have to come to the AT?"

                                  Like a day without sunshine? No wait. If I didn't *have* to come? That
                                  would mean I had been cured and no longer needed therapy, in which
                                  case I'd have to start doing all those things I'd been putting off for
                                  so long because therapy kept me from them. But then I'd have no
                                  friends, unless of course I made a whole *new* group of
                                  organized, "together" people with shiny sinks and clean floors,
                                  and ... and then *we* became friends and started trading housecleaning
                                  tips and recipes and.... Hey! We could even start a dish towl club and
                                  collect all the towls we'd ever need in our entire lifetimes! Oh, I'm
                                  getting excited about *this*, Tarjei! Not needing the AT will be
                                  freedom, at last, from sloth and abject idleness!

                                  I want to be free! Don't you?!

                                  But on second thought, I would miss the way I feel here and the way I
                                  can come and go as I please, knowing I'll be smiling when I come
                                  knocking again, for ... another session on the couch. ;)

                                  Cheers,
                                  Jennifer

                                  P.S. Thanks for being here!
                                • Steve Hale
                                  Well maybe Thoreau wouldn t have died of a broken heart if AT had been around back then. He would have had the outlet he needed. Certainly Emerson was no
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Apr 29 8:31 PM
                                    Well maybe Thoreau wouldn't have died of a broken heart if AT had
                                    been around back then. He would have had the outlet he needed.
                                    Certainly Emerson was no consolation. Thoreau asked him why he
                                    wasn't in jail with him. Well, Emerson had his books to get back to.

                                    Steve

                                    --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "write3chairs"
                                    <write3chairs@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > "What would it be like to not have to come to the AT?"
                                    >
                                    > Like a day without sunshine? No wait. If I didn't *have* to come?
                                    That
                                    > would mean I had been cured and no longer needed therapy, in which
                                    > case I'd have to start doing all those things I'd been putting off
                                    for
                                    > so long because therapy kept me from them. But then I'd have no
                                    > friends, unless of course I made a whole *new* group of
                                    > organized, "together" people with shiny sinks and clean floors,
                                    > and ... and then *we* became friends and started trading
                                    housecleaning
                                    > tips and recipes and.... Hey! We could even start a dish towl club
                                    and
                                    > collect all the towls we'd ever need in our entire lifetimes! Oh,
                                    I'm
                                    > getting excited about *this*, Tarjei!
                                  • write3chairs
                                    ... Hi, Steve! I am not aware of the circumstances surrounding Thoreau s death. Is that true, that he died of a broken heart? Cheers, Jennifer
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Apr 30 5:59 AM
                                      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" wrote:

                                      > Well maybe Thoreau wouldn't have died of a broken heart if AT had
                                      > been around back then. He would have had the outlet he needed.
                                      > Certainly Emerson was no consolation. Thoreau asked him why he
                                      > wasn't in jail with him. Well, Emerson had his books to get back to.
                                      >
                                      > Steve

                                      Hi, Steve!

                                      I am not aware of the circumstances surrounding Thoreau's death. Is
                                      that true, that he died of a broken heart?

                                      Cheers,
                                      Jennifer
                                    • Steve Hale
                                      ... had ... back to. ... Is ... What a beautifully phrased question. And one that I would like to go into when more time affords me the opportunity. Thoreau
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Apr 30 1:10 PM
                                        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "write3chairs"
                                        <write3chairs@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > Well maybe Thoreau wouldn't have died of a broken heart if AT
                                        had
                                        > > been around back then. He would have had the outlet he needed.
                                        > > Certainly Emerson was no consolation. Thoreau asked him why he
                                        > > wasn't in jail with him. Well, Emerson had his books to get
                                        back to.
                                        > >
                                        > > Steve
                                        >
                                        > Hi, Steve!
                                        >
                                        > I am not aware of the circumstances surrounding Thoreau's death.
                                        Is
                                        > that true, that he died of a broken heart?
                                        >
                                        > Cheers,
                                        > Jennifer

                                        What a beautifully phrased question. And one that I would like to
                                        go into when more time affords me the opportunity. Thoreau is a
                                        very important figure at the height of materialism in the 19th
                                        century. He died the year after Rudolf Steiner was born, when the
                                        War Between the States was in its second year.

                                        Steve
                                      • write3chairs
                                        Hi Steve! I look forward to your response to this when you have time. I totally agree with you about Thoreau. Also, I have found the connection between Thoreau
                                        Message 19 of 22 , May 1, 2006
                                          Hi Steve!

                                          I look forward to your response to this when you have time. I totally
                                          agree with you about Thoreau. Also, I have found the connection
                                          between Thoreau and Steiner rather amazing at times. They even look
                                          eerily alike. In fact, I have a photo of Steiner and Thoreau, side by
                                          side, that I just tried to post to the group but received a message
                                          saying I don't have photo-sharing privileges. (Of all the nerve!)

                                          Cheers,
                                          Jennifer

                                          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" wrote:

                                          > > Is that true, that he died of a broken heart?
                                          > >
                                          > > Cheers,
                                          > > Jennifer
                                          >
                                          > What a beautifully phrased question. And one that I would like to
                                          > go into when more time affords me the opportunity. Thoreau is a
                                          > very important figure at the height of materialism in the 19th
                                          > century. He died the year after Rudolf Steiner was born, when the
                                          > War Between the States was in its second year.
                                          >
                                          > Steve
                                        • Steve Hale
                                          ... Yes, Thoreau. The man who said: simplify, simplify. Yet, the two years on Walden Pond only served to complicate his life. He became an activist in spite
                                          Message 20 of 22 , May 2, 2006
                                            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "write3chairs"
                                            <write3chairs@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Hi Steve!
                                            >
                                            > I look forward to your response to this when you have time. I totally
                                            > agree with you about Thoreau. Also, I have found the connection
                                            > between Thoreau and Steiner rather amazing at times. They even look
                                            > eerily alike. In fact, I have a photo of Steiner and Thoreau, side by
                                            > side, that I just tried to post to the group but received a message
                                            > saying I don't have photo-sharing privileges. (Of all the nerve!)

                                            Yes, Thoreau. The man who said: simplify, simplify. Yet, the two
                                            years on Walden Pond only served to complicate his life. He became an
                                            activist in spite of his better nature, and this started to undermine
                                            his health. He supported the abolition of slavery and wrote against
                                            it. Then, John Brown was hanged after the raid of Harper's Ferry, and
                                            the brutal Civil War began. It was inevitable, and would cost the life
                                            of the President of the United States that had given the Emancipation
                                            Proclamation in September of 1863.

                                            But it allowed the United States to become the foremost world power
                                            just 33 years after its conclusion, when armed with the big eight
                                            industries, it fought the so-called "Spanish-Americsn War" in 1898;
                                            just 100 years before Soradt's third incarnation in 1998.

                                            Thoreau was a transcendentalist in America in the same spirit as
                                            Fechner was a panpsychist in Europe, seeking the simple life built
                                            around the renewal of Aristotle's secret teachings of the three
                                            kingdoms of nature. This occurred in the 19th century because of the
                                            inevitable rise of theoretical materialism and its subsequent
                                            progression into the practical materialism of the 20th century. It was
                                            designed to be a signpost, and Walden Pond was the signifier of it.

                                            Steve
                                          • Steve Hale
                                            ... Basically, the reason that Thoreau died of a broken heart is because the one love that he had in his life was lost to him; just as Novalis lost his true
                                            Message 21 of 22 , May 3, 2006
                                              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "write3chairs"
                                              <write3chairs@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Hi Steve!
                                              >
                                              > I look forward to your response to this when you have time. I totally
                                              > agree with you about Thoreau. Also, I have found the connection
                                              > between Thoreau and Steiner rather amazing at times. They even look
                                              > eerily alike. In fact, I have a photo of Steiner and Thoreau, side by
                                              > side, that I just tried to post to the group but received a message
                                              > saying I don't have photo-sharing privileges. (Of all the nerve!)
                                              >
                                              > Cheers,
                                              > Jennifer

                                              Basically, the reason that Thoreau died of a broken heart is because
                                              the one love that he had in his life was lost to him; just as Novalis
                                              lost his true love. And they both died of tuberculosis.

                                              Thus, when true love is lost, a cause (idea) becomes paramount in
                                              replacement of a love that would have solved all problems. In the case
                                              of Thoreau, it was an adherence to the simplicity and naive
                                              spirituality inherent in nature and its daily recognition. Then it was
                                              replaced with the very real strivings of one who sought liberation for
                                              the black man who had been brought to this country against his will to
                                              do the labor of the white man. This became a cause even above nature,
                                              and its inherent simple spiritual way.

                                              Then John Brown was hanged in an act of utter disrespect for the human
                                              race as a whole, and Thoreau experienced it as a psychic shock of
                                              profound proportions. And the resulting Civil War was too much for his
                                              sensitive soul constitution to handle. He died realizing the loss of a
                                              nation that he had held as an ideal.

                                              Steve
                                            • write3chairs
                                              ... because ... Novalis ... case ... was ... for ... will to ... nature, ... human ... for his ... of a ... Hi, Steve! Thanks so much for this. I have much to
                                              Message 22 of 22 , May 3, 2006
                                                --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale" wrote:

                                                > Basically, the reason that Thoreau died of a broken heart is
                                                because
                                                > the one love that he had in his life was lost to him; just as
                                                Novalis
                                                > lost his true love. And they both died of tuberculosis.
                                                >
                                                > Thus, when true love is lost, a cause (idea) becomes paramount in
                                                > replacement of a love that would have solved all problems. In the
                                                case
                                                > of Thoreau, it was an adherence to the simplicity and naive
                                                > spirituality inherent in nature and its daily recognition. Then it
                                                was
                                                > replaced with the very real strivings of one who sought liberation
                                                for
                                                > the black man who had been brought to this country against his
                                                will to
                                                > do the labor of the white man. This became a cause even above
                                                nature,
                                                > and its inherent simple spiritual way.
                                                >
                                                > Then John Brown was hanged in an act of utter disrespect for the
                                                human
                                                > race as a whole, and Thoreau experienced it as a psychic shock of
                                                > profound proportions. And the resulting Civil War was too much
                                                for his
                                                > sensitive soul constitution to handle. He died realizing the loss
                                                of a
                                                > nation that he had held as an ideal.
                                                >
                                                > Steve

                                                Hi, Steve! Thanks so much for this. I have much to learn about
                                                Thoreau and his life. What you share here is utterly sad. Thank you
                                                again.

                                                In peace,
                                                Jennifer

                                                "There is no remedy for love but to love more."
                                                (Thoreau, Journal 1, 81)
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