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Re: Celebrating Rudolf Steiner's Death Day

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  • tmasthenes13
    ... then ... buddies ... their ... around ... Yo Mike! Thanks for appreciating my metaphors. I always loved the upgrade that Marshall McLuhan gave to the
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 1, 2006
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      Mike Helser wrote:

      > If RS was right, and sex and Love are indeed mutually exclusive,
      then
      > maybe that's why he left us a corps to feed on. My X Buddhist
      buddies
      > were always be meditating of death and rotting corpses to quell
      their
      > sexual desires. Perhaps if we weren't all buzzing and crawling
      around
      > this corps, we'd all be out sport-fucking like crazey..:-O
      >
      > fascinating!
      ------------------------------

      Yo Mike!

      Thanks for appreciating my metaphors. I always loved the upgrade that
      Marshall McLuhan gave to the statement made 2 centuries ago by the
      great Limey poet Robert Browning:

      "Man's reach must exceed his grasp, or else, what's a heaven for?"

      Mercurial oracle Marshy Mac Luhan changed that to:

      "Man's reach must exceed his grasp, or else what's a metaphor?"

      Nyuk! Nyuk! Nyuk!

      Anyway, I must first give you a short lesson in speaking the dialect
      of Classical Anthroposophese. You expressed yourself in the rather
      coarse vernacular, using the term "sport-fucking."

      The f-word in Classical Anthroposophese is not 4 letters, but 8, to
      wit: "fructify." So, in future anthro-social gatherings, be they 3-
      fold or not, or whether here online or in an actual study group, you
      might try impressing your comrades by saying: "sport-fructification"
      or "sport-fructifying" or even the most formal expression of
      all: "undergoing a process, as it were, of sport-fructification."

      I am fascinated, in a very Spock-like way (and I could be subtly
      referring here to Benjy's sister Marjorie), with your correlation
      between meditating on corpses and quelling those rather insistent
      desires of a fructifactory nature. I assume you may be referring to
      the Hindu vow of "brahmacharya," which is not just sexual celibacy,
      but refraining from eating meat and other coarse sensual stuff. But
      all that seems to be such a "guy thing" and also pretty atavistic.

      But the truth is, I could actually more easily imagine my own
      parents "undergoing, as it were, a process of mutual fructifcation"
      than I ever could imagine Rudolf Steiner playing "hide the pickle"
      with any woman, be it Marie the Dour, or even Lovely Ita, Ita babe,
      (sing it: ". . . where would I be without you? Give us a wink and
      make me think of you. . . . Lovely Ita, Ita-babe!).

      (I was once exiled from a study group in Tennessee when an old S98
      post of mine surfaced where I had speculated on the idea that the
      real love of Rudy's life was not Marie, but Ita! Sigh! Ah, so much
      for neo-Platonic romanticism. )

      So here we have this unsettling, disquieting possibility that the
      entire corpus (not corpse now) of anthroposophy, the entire
      Gesamtausgabe, could have been founded on the repression of Rudolf
      Steiner's fructificatorial urges. But wait, there is a new sexual
      revolution going on and Rudolf Steiner may someday be canonized as
      the patron saint of this very "brahmacharyan" movement called
      ASEXUALITY. Check out this website for info
      http://www.asexuality.org/info.htm

      After all, since the asexuals have a T-shirt now, then they have to
      be an official and bona fide social movement, right? Now check out
      their Yahoo group, which you can read without subscribing as you can
      with A_T
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/havenforthehumanamoeba/messages

      As of today they have 589 members, as compared to 232 on A_T.

      Oh and their slogan on the T-shirt reads:

      ASEXUALITY: NOT JUST FOR AMOEBAS ANYMORE!

      But now back to repression. Years ago, in the heyday of Steiner98,
      the erudite techno-scholar William Irwin Thompson happened to fall
      down the rabbit hole of S98. I had accused him then of calling
      Steiner queer. While dusting himself off, Billy, aka, WIT, related
      to us that it was not he, but rather the New Age historian Rick
      Tarnas, who had actually made the remark that he thought Rudolf
      Steiner was a "repressed homosexual."

      Now, when the angels let me, I will pontificate on the spiritual-
      scientific principles of homosexuality. But they involve the rather
      complicated cross-pollination, as it were, (even cross-dressing? )
      No, better say, cross-weaving, as it were, of the male and female
      etheric-physical sheathes analogous to the way vision works through
      the optic chiasma. Interestingly enough, the phenomenon, as far as I
      can surmise --- with a straight face and a flaccid "lower larynx," as
      it were --- is neither genetic nor karmic in origin. However, if you
      would like to observe Goetheanistically, the phenomena of gayness and
      lesbianhood, do go out and see the movie Transamerica, where Felicity
      Huffman won the best Actress Oscar for portraying a pre-operative
      transsexual man becoming a woman.

      (For if you can catch such a person, before he, makes the,
      er, "final cut," as it were, then much may be clarified in the
      seer's (or is it sneer's?") inner spiritual perception of the inter-
      twining astral-etheric-physical mysteries of the male and female. I
      blush as I report this, but I must say, in all candor, that my
      Goetheanistic observations --- seeing in thinking and thinking in
      seeing --- of pre-op trannies, (known more colorfully as "chicks with
      dicks") were simultaneously the most titillating and penetrating
      clairsentient experiences of the entire course of my post-pubescent
      life!)

      Anyway, this whole Transamerica phenomenon, so mainstream out here in
      the City of Angels, has inspired me to ask the most profound
      questions of spiritual science I have come up with to date:

      Does size matter in counterspace?

      But now, let's get back home to the A_T group here. Robert Sardello
      also fell down the S98 rabbit hole, and he gave us a fascinating
      discussion of the sexual forces inherent on the Internet, which he
      termed "cyber-dildonics." I agreed with him and pointed to the work
      of Marshall McLuhan, who wrote about how the medium itself gradually
      changes the content of the medium to express itself more honestly and
      genuinely. (For example, when the movie medium first started, its
      content was of live plays and opera; today, the content of movies is
      much more determined by the actual medium of movies itself.)

      So, given that we appear to each other here only through e-mail
      messages, sans physical body contact, sans voice contact, sans
      images; and, given that the essence/energy of this electronic medium
      is of the fallen light and sound ethers, well, that's a lot of
      filtering out.

      What does come across very well is the ego and astral bodies; what is
      filtered out the most is the physical body and to a large extent the
      etheric. But, relatively speaking, I have noticed that over time,
      when we get to know each other through repeated conversations, our
      etheric bodies, which carry memory and habit, become strengthened.

      The result is that we tune into each other more on an etheric level
      than on a physical one. So you know what that means. It means that we
      physical guys exhibit on this list our female etheric side, while the
      physical ladies on this list, exhibit their more masculine etheric
      characteristics.

      I mean, look at the discussions that go on here. By and large, the
      issues that excite the guys, are all expressed in a very measured
      criss-crossing back and forth cyber-motion that always reminds me of
      a bunch of old ladies sitting around together gossiping at a church
      quilting bee. Notice how carefully the guys weave the patches and
      guide the patchwork of etheric quilt of whatever subject is being
      discussed. This is especially apparent when the critics get involved.

      On the other side, when the ladies, those etheric hunks of macho men,
      swagger in with their formidable astral cockleberries showing through
      their etheric codpieces, all they have to do is say one word, and
      they cut through all the quilting bullshit and send the giddy old
      ladies into a near hysterical tizzy.

      Finally, to get back to Buffalo Bob Sardello's idea of dildonics, my
      other picture of this A_T group is that of a cyber bordello, where
      Tarjei is the owner and Frank is the Madam. We physical guys are the
      etheric "girls of the evening" as it were, and the physical ladies
      are the etheric male clients, or "Johns" (Johannesses?) Most of the
      entertainment consists of us etheric girlie-men doing striptease on
      center stage. I myself am of the conservative old school, using the
      fans like Sally Rand used to do. And occasionally I do swing around
      that new-fangled pole.

      Now this latter metaphor is for Joel's benefit. Joel, I must tell
      you, you do have a nice pair of etheric hooters; you even have a
      nicely shaped etheric ass, and you have done so much admirable work
      in PoF and epistemology that the average John, or, Johannes, would
      select you over so many others in the "stable." I mean, you really
      know how to swing around that pole and get those dollar bills stuffed
      into your Native American motif G-strings, etc., but… but… you are
      violating a certain decorum of the bordello and I do believe you will
      improve your attitude once I tell you about this. So consider this an
      intervention of sorts, a kind of Texas 2-step around the pole.

      Joel, if you would just come up on stage and do your striptease
      routine like every other girlie-man here, everything would be fine.
      But instead, you have the chutzpah, I guess it's some kind of
      entitlement issue, where you come on stage and you take the bloody
      dildo-lance of Amfortas and start immediately thrusting it into your
      lower etheric sheath, and as if that weren't gross enough public
      behavior, you actually feel entitled to payment from the customers,
      for forcing them to watch your your vaunted spiritual experience of
      the last third of a century.

      Why even, Martha, with her New Mexican 10 gallon hat jauntily cocked,
      as it were, told you in direct terms to stop with your autobiography
      already. Listen to her, already! (Doesn't Martha remind you a lot of
      Gary Cooper in High Noon? "Do not forsake me oh, my darling!...)

      In other words, Joel, do come on stage and give us a nice striptease
      about your experience, but please don't use your experience as a
      dildo to pleasure yourself and expect not to be thrown out of the
      bordello.

      OK, Mike, I'll end here. This should be more than enough to spark
      discussion around the pole,or is it more patches for the quilting
      bee? (As it were. )

      Thomasina in the etheric
    • ishtarmustdie
      The great achievement of the 4th Way system, given from the outset by Ouspensky, who said the system was important because it wasn t his, consists of the
      Message 2 of 19 , Apr 2, 2006
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        "The great achievement of the 4th Way system, given from the outset
        by Ouspensky, who said the system was important because it wasn't
        his, consists of the integrality of the Law of Three with the Law of
        Seven. It is imperative to give note to this important interaction;
        that we must take account of the working of the Law of Three, which
        has been born out of the Law of Seven. In actuality, Aristotle
        discovered the working presence of the Law of Three over 2300 years
        ago. He discovered that nature bears three reflective spheres of
        activity; the mineral, plant, and animal kingdoms. As such, they
        reflect and coincide exactly with the Higher Worlds, known as Upper
        Devachan, Lower Devachan, and the Astral Plane. Based on this
        discovery, Aristotle, after spending 20 years in Plato's Academy,
        and then instructing the young Alexander the Great for eight years,
        started a school designed to address the facts and significance of
        the Law of Three seen existing in nature. The first step taken in
        this school, The Peripatetic, was to gain a disciplined hold on the
        fundamentals of deductive reasoning, the first form of reasoning to
        be developed by the great initiates of Greek philosophy. Thus, the
        first expression of the Law of Three took the form of what is known
        as the 'Logical Syllogism', comprised of: Major Premise, Minor
        Premise, Conclusion. After this disciplined thinking was
        sufficiently developed the student graduated into the inner circle;
        the secondary school where the Laws and Beings of Nature were
        taught. And their correspondence to the Higher Worlds.
        Ouspensky gives extraordinary emphasis to the importance of the
        Law of Three throughout the 4th Way discourse. And when he begins to
        refer to the formation and importance of the Lateral Octave of La-
        Sol-Fa, and its relationship to the sensitive film that surrounds
        the earth, i.e., organic life on earth, then we have a very great
        advancement from the work of Aristotle. Why? Because Aristotle could
        never have discovered this himself. The Fourth Way describes this
        most significant fact; the fact of the path of the descending
        octave, and the La-Sol-Fa extraction."
        ---From "Quaternium Organum" by Stephen Hale

        I have a diagram somewhere that reflects the idea of a divine
        symbolic trinity wherein the circle, the triangle, and the square
        are perfectly intact. And this constitutes the original plan of
        earth evolution; the one described in Steiner's "Outline of Occult
        Science" involving the careful weaving and looming activities of the
        Hierarchies in the three spheres of Cosmic Embryology [Saturn-Sun-
        Moon]. But this was all changed, and the original physical,
        etheric, and astral body prototypes were made coarser and denser
        than originally intended in order for the Ego, the fourth member of
        man's being, to be developed on earth from the beginning, and not
        the end, as the basis of human freedom.

        So, the secret to the Enneagram is that it is a reflection of
        repeated earth lives in the form of the deconstruction of the square
        in the middle, surrounded by an intact triangle (Soul), and further
        surrounded by an intact circle (Spirit). Thus, the Enneagram bears
        the knowledge of the revised plan of earth evolution involving
        repeated earth lives due to the densifying and complexifying nature
        of the human being that must now evolve in a physical world whose
        source comes from the Moon. The mineral kingdom passed over from
        the Moon to the Earth 50,000 years ago, and this is when the concept
        of repeated earth lives also commenced.

        The Moon, in turn, now bears the original diaphenous etheric
        constitution that still echoes in the Garden of Eden story. But on
        the Moon, this fine etheric substance becomes of the nature of its
        total opposite, and so the moon is now a super-hardened
        counterweight to the earth, while the earth bears the wisdom of the
        three nature kingdoms, with the mineral kingdom coming forth through
        Jehova's work on the Moon. Man can only be free by evolving in a
        mineralized world where his destiny cannot be found and cannot be
        influential. And only through thinking does mankind knock at the
        door of his true destiny; the destiny of complete and individualized
        freedom in eternity.

        Steve


        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "tmasthenes13"
        <TomBuoyed@...> wrote:
        >
        > Steve Hale wrote:
        > >
        > > It is very interesting that you complete your thought with this
        > > reference to the enneagram. I wonder how many people have
        > considered
        > > that the dodecahedron and the enneagram represent the two great
        > mystic
        > > symbols of the 20th century. The former refers to the model of
        man
        > as
        > > universal human, and latter to the concept of self-remembering.
      • winters_diana
        ... LOL!! Priceless. It would be hard for us to discuss sexism, I guess, since you apparently don t know what it is! Diana
        Message 3 of 19 , Apr 3, 2006
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          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ishtarmustdie"
          <sardisian01@...> wrote:

          >The only sexism I know of is Steiner's continual reference to the work
          >of men in the endeavors of his very positive spiritual philosophy. I
          >believe it has to do with the necessary continuance of the male
          >principle in the transition from the intellectual to the consciousness
          >soul age.



          LOL!! Priceless.
          It would be hard for us to discuss sexism, I guess, since you
          apparently don't know what it is!
          Diana
        • Mike helsher
          ... that ... dialect ... you ... fructification ... Hey Tom, thanks for yur indepth reply, i ve been meaning to get back to this but I ve had to do the mister
          Message 4 of 19 , Apr 3, 2006
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            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "tmasthenes13"
            <TomBuoyed@...> wrote:
            >
            > Mike Helser wrote:
            >
            > > If RS was right, and sex and Love are indeed mutually exclusive,
            > then
            > > maybe that's why he left us a corps to feed on. My X Buddhist
            > buddies
            > > were always be meditating of death and rotting corpses to quell
            > their
            > > sexual desires. Perhaps if we weren't all buzzing and crawling
            > around
            > > this corps, we'd all be out sport-fucking like crazey..:-O
            > >
            > > fascinating!
            > ------------------------------
            >
            > Yo Mike!
            >
            > Thanks for appreciating my metaphors. I always loved the upgrade
            that
            > Marshall McLuhan gave to the statement made 2 centuries ago by the
            > great Limey poet Robert Browning:
            >
            > "Man's reach must exceed his grasp, or else, what's a heaven for?"
            >
            > Mercurial oracle Marshy Mac Luhan changed that to:
            >
            > "Man's reach must exceed his grasp, or else what's a metaphor?"
            >
            > Nyuk! Nyuk! Nyuk!
            >
            > Anyway, I must first give you a short lesson in speaking the
            dialect
            > of Classical Anthroposophese. You expressed yourself in the rather
            > coarse vernacular, using the term "sport-fucking."
            >
            > The f-word in Classical Anthroposophese is not 4 letters, but 8, to
            > wit: "fructify." So, in future anthro-social gatherings, be they 3-
            > fold or not, or whether here online or in an actual study group,
            you
            > might try impressing your comrades by saying: "sport-
            fructification"
            > or "sport-fructifying" or even the most formal expression of
            > all: "undergoing a process, as it were, of sport-fructification."

            Hey Tom, thanks for yur indepth reply, i've been meaning to get back
            to this but I've had to do the mister Mom thing this weekend, as my
            wonderful wifey is away visiting. so in a way i'm strapping on my
            own "big hooters". Still don't have much time, but I didn't wanna let
            it drift away.

            Ok, so it should also be the "Enkidu fructificationathon"...:)

            (interesting about the Gilgamesh story to me, is the rather involuted
            idea of sexuality, as represented by the high priestess (Enkidu"s
            lover)as compared to the standards of today)


            >
            > I am fascinated, in a very Spock-like way (and I could be subtly
            > referring here to Benjy's sister Marjorie), with your correlation
            > between meditating on corpses and quelling those rather insistent
            > desires of a fructifactory nature. I assume you may be referring to
            > the Hindu vow of "brahmacharya," which is not just sexual celibacy,
            > but refraining from eating meat and other coarse sensual stuff. But
            > all that seems to be such a "guy thing" and also pretty atavistic.

            Well we we're vegetarians also. there were also seperate community
            houses for men and women. I think now that it was all about some kind
            of redemption, Metabavna (as is the main theme of buddhism). twas a
            good stepping stone for me to help rethink my catholic/bevis and
            butthead upbringing.

            Gheesh, the "guy thing" reminds me of a phase I went through with the
            Robert Bly "Iron John" story...Which brings me to think of a song I
            heard once on the doctor demento show about sailors at sea (sung in a
            round similar to row row row yur boat) "men men men men...men men men
            men...so throw your rubbers overboard there's nobody here but ....men
            men men men...."

            >
            > But the truth is, I could actually more easily imagine my own
            > parents "undergoing, as it were, a process of mutual fructifcation"
            > than I ever could imagine Rudolf Steiner playing "hide the pickle"
            > with any woman, be it Marie the Dour, or even Lovely Ita, Ita babe,
            > (sing it: ". . . where would I be without you? Give us a wink and
            > make me think of you. . . . Lovely Ita, Ita-babe!).
            >
            > (I was once exiled from a study group in Tennessee when an old S98
            > post of mine surfaced where I had speculated on the idea that the
            > real love of Rudy's life was not Marie, but Ita! Sigh! Ah, so much
            > for neo-Platonic romanticism. )
            >
            > So here we have this unsettling, disquieting possibility that the
            > entire corpus (not corpse now) of anthroposophy, the entire
            > Gesamtausgabe, could have been founded on the repression of Rudolf
            > Steiner's fructificatorial urges. But wait, there is a new sexual
            > revolution going on and Rudolf Steiner may someday be canonized as
            > the patron saint of this very "brahmacharyan" movement called
            > ASEXUALITY. Check out this website for info
            > http://www.asexuality.org/info.htm
            >
            > After all, since the asexuals have a T-shirt now, then they have to
            > be an official and bona fide social movement, right? Now check out
            > their Yahoo group, which you can read without subscribing as you
            can
            > with A_T
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/havenforthehumanamoeba/messages
            >
            > As of today they have 589 members, as compared to 232 on A_T.
            >
            > Oh and their slogan on the T-shirt reads:
            >
            > ASEXUALITY: NOT JUST FOR AMOEBAS ANYMORE!
            >
            > But now back to repression. Years ago, in the heyday of Steiner98,
            > the erudite techno-scholar William Irwin Thompson happened to fall
            > down the rabbit hole of S98. I had accused him then of calling
            > Steiner queer. While dusting himself off, Billy, aka, WIT, related
            > to us that it was not he, but rather the New Age historian Rick
            > Tarnas, who had actually made the remark that he thought Rudolf
            > Steiner was a "repressed homosexual."
            >
            > Now, when the angels let me, I will pontificate on the spiritual-
            > scientific principles of homosexuality. But they involve the rather
            > complicated cross-pollination, as it were, (even cross-dressing? )
            > No, better say, cross-weaving, as it were, of the male and female
            > etheric-physical sheathes analogous to the way vision works through
            > the optic chiasma. Interestingly enough, the phenomenon, as far as
            I
            > can surmise --- with a straight face and a flaccid "lower larynx,"
            as
            > it were --- is neither genetic nor karmic in origin. However, if
            you
            > would like to observe Goetheanistically, the phenomena of gayness
            and
            > lesbianhood, do go out and see the movie Transamerica, where
            Felicity
            > Huffman won the best Actress Oscar for portraying a pre-operative
            > transsexual man becoming a woman.
            >
            > (For if you can catch such a person, before he, makes the,
            > er, "final cut," as it were, then much may be clarified in the
            > seer's (or is it sneer's?") inner spiritual perception of the
            inter-
            > twining astral-etheric-physical mysteries of the male and female. I
            > blush as I report this, but I must say, in all candor, that my
            > Goetheanistic observations --- seeing in thinking and thinking in
            > seeing --- of pre-op trannies, (known more colorfully as "chicks
            with
            > dicks") were simultaneously the most titillating and penetrating
            > clairsentient experiences of the entire course of my post-pubescent
            > life!)
            >
            > Anyway, this whole Transamerica phenomenon, so mainstream out here
            in
            > the City of Angels, has inspired me to ask the most profound
            > questions of spiritual science I have come up with to date:
            >
            > Does size matter in counterspace?

            Good question...:) I might matter more(if it matters at all) when
            some science geek invents machine to measure thought....:-O

            All of the above is quite interesting. long time ago I sponsored a
            kid that was gay and he told me that his dad had sex with his
            brother, and then his brother slept in the same room as him and they
            developed a sexual relationship. I thought I was supposed to help him
            with his drug addiction till he asked me..."do you think I'm gay?" I
            gave him the best answer that I could at the time..."i don't know."

            As to RS..."did he, or did he not, that is the question".

            The whole world came slamming down on me one day, when i realized the
            immense and intrinsic responsibility that RS was pointing to with the
            idea of intuiting moral imagination...I hit my knees and tears hit
            the side walk and I found my self very much in tune with a scene in
            the Wayne's world movie where Wayne and Garth are bowing to Alice
            copper whining "were not worthy."

            I've just opened up a pinhole to the view of mount Olympus, and in
            that light the idea of sex seems kinda stupid. So I would guess that
            if RS was indeed viewing in 3d surround sound, that he may indeed
            have been celibate.


            But what about this Idea of Eros??


            gotta go back to work


            Mike
          • Mike helsher
            ... stuffed ... i like joels hooters too. he and I have walked a similar path and though in the physical I my need to catch up with honing some skills,
            Message 5 of 19 , Apr 3, 2006
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              >
              > Now this latter metaphor is for Joel's benefit. Joel, I must tell
              > you, you do have a nice pair of etheric hooters; you even have a
              > nicely shaped etheric ass, and you have done so much admirable work
              > in PoF and epistemology that the average John, or, Johannes, would
              > select you over so many others in the "stable." I mean, you really
              > know how to swing around that pole and get those dollar bills
              stuffed
              > into your Native American motif G-strings, etc....

              i like joels hooters too. he and I have walked a similar path and
              though in the physical I my need to catch up with honing some skills,
              (writing and typing and spelling and a boat load of reading)I do
              believe that I catch his drift on occasion. we often sail on the same
              breeze. but sometimes Joel loads his cannons and turns into the wind
              and lobs out a few broadsides on the ships he sees sailing in a
              diffrent direction. I've always loves the old pirate ship movies
              and "master and commander" was a huge thrill. But I usually just
              watch these big gunned jousts form my own little "seemingly seaworthy
              ship of doubt...." But I was at one time inspired in part by joel to
              write the following little ditty:

              The Sea of Love

              My seemingly seaworthy ship of doubt
              Is but a speck of angst, churning in a sea of Love
              That can only be navigated by the innocence
              That is liken onto a child

              My compass broken, I sail by the stars of the night
              For I was told that the sun is but a burning ball of gas

              I learn to live within the angst
              Encased in a dream that seems so real
              And all that I grasp in this dream turns to stone
              I save them in the belly of my ship of doubt
              Until one day it finally sinks

              And there I am...alone
              My speck of angst turns into a black hole into which I fall
              And all that I thought that I was
              Weighs upon me
              Like the falling of the night sky onto the earth

              I struggle and try to think like a snake
              I slither in the manmade crevasse
              Of the world of the machine.
              Squeezed like a sardine
              And prodded by the pecking of hens
              Until all that remains
              Is the Horror

              It was then that a Whole Universe
              Contained In a tiny drop
              Of all that was left of the Sea of Love
              Came forth...

              From the corner of my eye


              Thanks Joel

              Mike
            • ishtarmustdie
              ... work ... philosophy. I ... consciousness ... The point simple that I wanted to make is that the male principle runs throught the fourth cultural epoch and
              Message 6 of 19 , Apr 4, 2006
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                --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "winters_diana"
                <diana.winters@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ishtarmustdie"
                > <sardisian01@> wrote:
                >
                > >The only sexism I know of is Steiner's continual reference to the
                work
                > >of men in the endeavors of his very positive spiritual
                philosophy. I
                > >believe it has to do with the necessary continuance of the male
                > >principle in the transition from the intellectual to the
                consciousness
                > >soul age.
                >
                >
                >
                > LOL!! Priceless.
                > It would be hard for us to discuss sexism, I guess, since you
                > apparently don't know what it is!
                > Diana

                The point simple that I wanted to make is that the male principle
                runs throught the fourth cultural epoch and on into the fifth, while
                the female principle runs throughout the third cultural epoch and on
                into the fourth, where we see all the goddess worshipping as
                evidence of the great acheivement of sentiency. The intellect of
                man rests on the foundation of this sentiency, just as man's
                consciousness rests on the foundation of his/her intellect.

                Now, herein the "greater" consciousness soul age which commenced at
                the turn of the 20th century, we have a measure of cosmic
                intelligence made available for the uptake. And philosophy, which
                by some accounts died in 1950, is actually redeemed through
                anthroposophical spiritual science. And by redeemed I mean that
                higher forms of reasoning are contained within this body of
                knowledge as working principles. And it most probably takes the
                further effort of the male principle in recognizing and championing
                this important fact for the future of spiritual science as a
                furtherance of the fourth cultural epoch, as well as a higher
                resolution of the third cultural epoch in its own right.

                Steve
                >
              • ishtarmustdie
                Tom, I have been meaning to get back to you about these comments below: As for Gurdjieff, I wonder if you could shed some light on some anthropoop I
                Message 7 of 19 , Apr 5, 2006
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                  Tom, I have been meaning to get back to you about these comments
                  below:

                  "As for Gurdjieff, I wonder if you could shed some light on
                  some "anthropoop" I overheard in AP circles, about G in relation to
                  Steiner." I heard that one time Gurdjieff paid a visit to the
                  Goetheanum, but when Steiner heard about it, he became livid, and
                  actually had to be physically restrained from attacking G. The
                  reason apparently was that RS did not want all the evil, nasty,
                  egregore-type entities in G's "astral body entourage" to contaminate
                  the pristine etheric spiritual atmosphere of the Goetheanum."

                  Yes, I heard this too, and I do believe that David Eyes spoke about
                  it in his short essay, "Gurdjieff and Steiner". I had an
                  interesting discussion with David Eyes a few years ago about Steiner
                  and Gurdjieff. In the Gospel of Matthew lectures, given in
                  September of 1910, Steiner gives a certain attention to a form of
                  clairvoyance beheld by the gypsies; he called it the clairvoyance of
                  the turanians. Gurdjieff was such a one as these. Thus, he had a
                  kind of crystal-ball form of clairvoyance, which was actually the
                  ability to see the human aura. And this made him particularly able
                  to see the human moral condition. He had the knack of seeing the
                  flaws and weaknesses of those he was in touch with, and this made
                  him very capable of creating programs for human development along
                  the lines of what people needed in order to counter the defects that
                  he saw in their characters. It became known as "chief feature",
                  which requires one to go against the grain of their strong suit, and
                  purposely cultivate their opposite, or what is most weak in one's
                  nature. And he was a genius for doing such a thing.

                  The reason is that this method constitutes a recapitulation of the
                  old forms of initiation science wherein the corollary was enforced
                  in order to keep arrogance and pride in check. Emphasizing chief
                  feature had this in mind; and it worked to an extraordinarily
                  effective degree. Whether Gurdjieff ever actually knocked at the
                  door of the Goetheanum is unknown to me. But, considering that very
                  fine etheric forms and beings, including Theodor Feiss were
                  contained therein, and that Gurdjieff had this form of what could be
                  called "cheap clairvoyance", it is quite possible that his
                  admittance would be considered an offense to the environment; being
                  of the astral body kind, he would only have beheld something that
                  would have given him the pause of a new vantage point. And that
                  point concerns the astral-etheric connection needed for modern
                  initiaiton science to be fully successful. This fact is knowable.

                  Steve
                • holderlin66
                  Steve wrote: But, considering that very fine etheric forms and beings, including Theodor Feiss were contained therein, and that Gurdjieff had this form of
                  Message 8 of 19 , Apr 5, 2006
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                    Steve wrote:

                    " But, considering that very
                    fine etheric forms and beings, including Theodor Feiss were
                    contained therein, and that Gurdjieff had this form of what could be
                    called "cheap clairvoyance", it is quite possible that his
                    admittance would be considered an offense to the environment; being
                    of the astral body kind, he would only have beheld something that
                    would have given him the pause of a new vantage point. "

                    Bradford comments;

                    What a refreshing breath of fresh air. Christ walking on water,
                    etheric or otherwise, what lame ass research about the frozen seas,
                    it was brought up on this list or another long ago and frozen water
                    was postulated by some dim wit, I forget who. Now comes this, Steve
                    called it dead on, just cheap crappy science to fill in the deadness
                    of those who don't understand why they are numb. I keep experiencing
                    the shock of the numbness for those who actually feel a hollow that
                    something else should be there, something vast and penetrating,
                    Grail Science, pulsing in culture and full of life. And I can
                    experience the numbness the painful, 'whatever' numbness that it
                    isn't there and it can't be found and they don't have a clue how to
                    navigate their thoughts towards it. Grants and money to say any kind
                    of human nonsense because Spiritual Science aka Miracle isn't really
                    possible. Humans are so deeply in the hole that looking down is like
                    looking up.

                    Steve your description of Gurdjieff's drives, force, will and
                    general condensed mithraric selfishness, condensed will and his
                    dominating personality, is like having a sociopath with a heightened
                    Ahrimanic shadow, so dense that it reverberates as an undertow in
                    everyone around him...This sort of astrality, but with some etheric
                    super driving patterning, his ability to dominate and force the soul
                    into a kind of pre-Christ initiation pattern, was rich to
                    contemplate.

                    I have looked forward to what you were going to bring on Kaspar
                    Hauser...all I can savor is where your current soberness and clarity
                    arises from. You do have your dips, but these several ringing posts
                    were like fresh air, thanks.
                  • isenhart7
                    ... The Fourth Way describes this ... Dear Stephen, Can you say a little more about the descending octave. What s it comprised of, how it s formed? Are you
                    Message 9 of 19 , Apr 6, 2006
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                      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com,
                      "ishtarmustdie" <sardisian01@...> wrote:
                      >

                      The Fourth Way describes this
                      > most significant fact; the fact of the path of the descending
                      > octave, and the La-Sol-Fa extraction."
                      > ---From "Quaternium Organum" by Stephen Hale

                      Dear Stephen,

                      Can you say a little more about the descending octave. What's it
                      comprised of, how it's formed? Are you saying descending in
                      that one corresponds to spirit, another soul, and another the
                      physical? Since these are tones is there a corresponding
                      gesture as well?-Val
                    • isenhart7
                      ... seas, ... water ... Steve ... deadness ... experiencing ... that ... penetrating, ... that it ... to ... any kind ... isn t really ... is like ... Look s
                      Message 10 of 19 , Apr 6, 2006
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                        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com,
                        "holderlin66" <holderlin66@...> wrote:

                        > What a refreshing breath of fresh air. Christ walking on water,
                        > etheric or otherwise, what lame ass research about the frozen
                        seas,
                        > it was brought up on this list or another long ago and frozen
                        water
                        > was postulated by some dim wit, I forget who. Now comes this,
                        Steve
                        > called it dead on, just cheap crappy science to fill in the
                        deadness
                        > of those who don't understand why they are numb. I keep
                        experiencing
                        > the shock of the numbness for those who actually feel a hollow
                        that
                        > something else should be there, something vast and
                        penetrating,
                        > Grail Science, pulsing in culture and full of life. And I can
                        > experience the numbness the painful, 'whatever' numbness
                        that it
                        > isn't there and it can't be found and they don't have a clue how
                        to
                        > navigate their thoughts towards it. Grants and money to say
                        any kind
                        > of human nonsense because Spiritual Science aka Miracle
                        isn't really
                        > possible. Humans are so deeply in the hole that looking down
                        is like
                        > looking up.

                        Look's like they caught a big fish-or to quote the professor-a Holy
                        Cow!-Val

                        http:www.nytimes.com/2006/04/05/science/05cnd-fossil.html?ex
                        =1301889600&en=43e5c9ecb1dd0cd6&ei=5090&partner=rssu
                        serland&emc=rss

                        By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
                        Published: April 5, 2006

                        Scientists have discovered fossils of a 375 million-year-old fish,
                        a large scaly creature not seen before, that they say is a
                        long-sought "missing link" in the evolution of some fishes from
                        water to a life walking on four limbs on land.

                        University of Chicago
                        A model of the 375 million-year-old fish, which exhibits changes
                        that anticipate the emergence of land animals.

                        In addition to confirming elements of a major transition in
                        evolution, the fossils are widely seen by scientists as a powerful
                        rebuttal to religious creationists, who hold a literal biblical view
                        on the origins and development of life.

                        Several well-preserved skeletons of the fossil fish were
                        uncovered in sediments of former stream beds in the Canadian
                        Arctic, 600 miles from the North Pole, it is being reported on
                        Thursday in the journal Nature. The skeletons have the fins and
                        scales and other attributes of a giant fish, four to nine feet long.

                        But on closer examination, scientists found telling anatomical
                        traits of a transitional creature, a fish that is still a fish but
                        exhibiting changes that anticipate the emergence of land
                        animals — a predecessor thus of amphibians, reptiles and
                        dinosaurs, mammals and eventually humans.

                        The scientists described evidence in the forward fins of limbs in
                        the making. There are the beginnings of digits, proto-wrists,
                        elbows and shoulders. The fish also had a flat skull resembling
                        a crocodile's, a neck, ribs and other parts that were similar to
                        four-legged land animals known as tetrapods.

                        The discovering scientists called the fossils the most
                        compelling examples yet of an animal that was at the cusp of the
                        fish-tetrapod transition. The fish has been named Tiktaalik
                        roseae, at the suggestion of elders of Canada's Nunavut
                        Territory. Tiktaalik (pronounced tic-TAH-lick) means "large
                        shallow water fish."

                        In two reports in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature, the
                        science team led by Neil H. Shubin of the University of Chicago
                        wrote, "The origin of limbs probably involved the elaboration and
                        proliferation of features already present in the fins of fish such as
                        Tiktaalik."

                        Dr. Shubin, an evolutionary biologist, let himself go in an
                        interview. "It's a really amazing remarkable intermediate fossil —
                        it's like, holy cow," he enthused.

                        Two other paleontologists, commenting on the find in a separate
                        article in the journal, said that a few other transitional fish had
                        been previously discovered from approximately the same Late
                        Devonian time period, 385 million to 359 million years ago. But
                        Tiktaalik is so clearly an intermediate "link between fishes and
                        land vertebrates," they said, that it "might in time become as
                        much an evolutionary icon as the proto-bird Archaeopteryx,"
                        which bridged the gap between reptiles, probably dinosaurs,
                        and today's birds.

                        The writers, Erik Ahlberg of Uppsala University in Sweden and
                        Jennifer A. Clack of the University of Cambridge in England, are
                        often viewed as rivals to Dr. Shubin's team in the search for
                        intermediate species in the evolution from fish to the first
                        animals to colonize land.

                        In a statement by the Science Museum of London, where casts
                        of the fossils will be on view, Dr. Clack said the fish "confirms
                        everything we thought and also tells us about the order in which
                        certain changes were made."

                        H. Richard Lane, director of paleobiology at the National Science
                        Foundation, said in a statement, "These exciting discoveries are
                        providing fossil 'Rosetta Stones' for a deeper understanding of
                        this evolutionary milestone — fish to land-roaming tetrapods."

                        The science foundation and the National Geographic Society
                        were among the financial supporters of the research. Besides
                        Dr. Shubin, the principal discoverers were Edward B. Daeschler
                        of the Academy of Natural Sciences in Philadelphia and Farish A.
                        Jenkins Jr., a Harvard evolutionary biologist.

                        Michael J. Novacek, a paleontologist at the American Museum of
                        Natural History in Manhattan, who was not involved in the
                        research, said: "Based on what we already know, we have a very
                        strong reason to think tetrapods evolved from lineages of fishes.
                        This may be a critical phase in that transition that we haven't had
                        before. A good fossil cuts through a lot of scientific argument."

                        While Dr. Shubin's team played down the fossil's significance in
                        the raging debate over Darwinian theory, which is opposed
                        mainly by some conservative Christians in the United States,
                        other scientists were not so reticent. They said this should
                        undercut the creationists' argument that there is no evidence in
                        the fossil record of one kind of creature becoming another kind.

                        One creationist Web site (emporium.turnpike.net/C/cs/evid1.htm)
                        declares that "there are no transitional forms," adding: "For
                        example, not a single fossil with part fins part feet has been
                        found. And this is true between every major plant and animal
                        kind."
                      • ishtarmustdie
                        ... The cosmology of the Fourth Way, as developed by Gurdjieff and Ouspensky, is rather elegantly described as the Ray of Creation . As such, it subscribes
                        Message 11 of 19 , Apr 6, 2006
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                          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "isenhart7"
                          <isenhart7@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com,
                          > "ishtarmustdie" <sardisian01@> wrote:
                          > >
                          >
                          > The Fourth Way describes this
                          > > most significant fact; the fact of the path of the descending
                          > > octave, and the La-Sol-Fa extraction."
                          > > ---From "Quaternium Organum" by Stephen Hale
                          >
                          > Dear Stephen,
                          >
                          > Can you say a little more about the descending octave. What's it
                          > comprised of, how it's formed? Are you saying descending in
                          > that one corresponds to spirit, another soul, and another the
                          > physical? Since these are tones is there a corresponding
                          > gesture as well?-Val

                          "The cosmology of the Fourth Way, as developed by Gurdjieff and
                          Ouspensky, is rather elegantly described as the 'Ray of Creation'.
                          As such, it subscribes almost exclusively to the law of numbers,
                          i.e, 1, 3, 6, 12, 24, 48, 96, and so on. A parallel of this number
                          scheme exists by comparing it to the work of the philosopher,
                          Proclus, who developed a system called, "emanationism", based
                          entirely on the influence of light as it descends into the earthly
                          realm. Proclus lived around 500 AD. Thus, the Macrocosm is
                          comprised of Sun and Moon, the Planets, and the Starry World of the
                          Heavens. And these are all in us in the form of a Microcosm. We
                          embody the great Universe in its entirety. The problem is that we
                          don't know it; we have forgotten this fact. In Proclus' time it was
                          still remembered. Thus, according to 4th Way logic, The Sun and the
                          Moon represent the (Do) note of the descending octave; and (Si)
                          represents the Planets. This Do-Si connection, and its results, lead
                          to a lateral octave that forms relative to the notes La-Sol-Fa, and
                          comprises organic life on earth. La-Sol-Fa represents a trinity of
                          Spiritual Beings dedicated to earth evolution, and out of which, the
                          active, passive, and neutral forces of the so-called material atom
                          are formed. Lucifer is the spiritual being behind the active force;
                          Ahriman is the spiritual being behind the passive force; and the
                          Christ is the spiritual being behind the neutral force. Active force
                          becomes the 1st force; passive force, the 2nd force; and neutral
                          force, the 3rd force. Now the system that comprises the Fourth Way
                          makes very specific reference to the fact that these forces, 1-2-3,
                          active, passive, and neutral, must become 1-3-2 in order for an
                          active manifestation of material phenomena to occur. In other words,
                          organic life on earth demands that a change of position take place
                          between the passive and neutral forces. Thus, the Christ and Ahriman
                          change places. And this change of places occurred two thousand years
                          ago. As a result, Ahriman takes the functional role of the "Being of
                          Heat Force" within the inner domain of the earth, while the Christ
                          gives the 'spark' of the neutral force over the course of three
                          years, and then ascends into the etheric realm of the earth in order
                          to fortify the moral element of the earth that has been realized
                          since 1933."
                          --From Quaternium Organum by S. G. Hale
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