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Re: Christ-centred

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  • kmlightseeker
    Hi Val, ... I think that s true. ... I agree. Not many people seem to do this from my observation...at least, not everyone. ... Regards, Keith
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 1, 2006
      Hi Val,

      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "isenhart7"
      <isenhart7@...> wrote:
      > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com,
      > > "kmlightseeker" <kmlightseeker@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Interesting:
      > > >
      > > > " 15:12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another,
      > > even as I
      > > > have loved you. 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that
      > > someone
      > > > lay down his life for his friends. 15:14 You are my friends, if
      > you
      > > do
      > > > whatever I command you. 15:15 No longer do I call you
      > > servants, for
      > > > the servant doesn't know what his lord does. But I have
      > called
      > > you
      > > > friends, for everything that I heard from my Father, I have
      > made
      > > known
      > > > to you....
      > Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your
      > people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD. (NIV,
      > Leviticus 19:18)
      > The second is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'
      > There is no other commandment greater than these. (NRSV,
      > Mark 12:31)
      > So what do people think this means, to love your neighbor as
      > yourself? I think it means, as a practical matter, to cut them
      > some slack. I know most of my own biography by heart and so I
      > understand some of the reasons for my own dysfunction. And of
      > course, of course, I've rationalized my own dysfinction along the
      > way or I wouldn't have been able to live with myself. Been there,
      > done that.

      I think that's true.

      > And I think this is why biographical work, whether for an
      > individual or an organization can be so healing . There's the old
      > saying attributed to the Native Americans, I expect Steven Clarke
      > knows its origins better than I, that says we can't know how
      > another feels until we've walked a mile in his moccasins.

      I agree. Not many people seem to do this from my observation...at
      least, not everyone.

      > Also, if you think about it, if we practiced this really-we walked in
      > another person's shoes for a mile then we'd be a mile away from
      > them when we finally replied. Oh, sorry it's Mrs. Math Person
      > coming out in me again. Here's a more imaginative picture of the
      > saying perhaps:
      > "Until you walk a mile in another man's moccasins, you can't
      > imagine the smell." Robert Byrne



    • kmlightseeker
      Hi Engemi, ... when I ... that, ... more ... book, ... speak to me ... book at ... three weeks ... capacity ... i won ... RS or ... long? I ... another ...
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 1, 2006
        Hi Engemi,

        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "engemi"
        <chameleon@...> wrote:
        > Hi Keith
        > I really love it that you sent these quotations. In the beginning,
        when I
        > first read KoHW, i was struck by a seemingly biblical sence. i hated
        > because it was in my Sturm und Drang yrs, when I refused to take any
        > preaching - from ánybody. But i was told by the guy who gave me the
        > and whom I attacked endlessly for "his - i felt wrongly so - belief" in
        > either Steiner and/or Anthroposophy, he will not be prepared to
        speak to me
        > on or listen to me speaking about Anthrop. unless I have read the
        book at
        > least once and did every excercise mentioned in it at least for
        three weeks
        > in continuation. I thought to hell, but then, i was young, in full
        > of my philosophical gemuet, and thought i could win him the same as
        i won
        > everyone else who argued (or tried to) with me, so i read away.
        > About six months later the man (a teacher, who incidently knew Steiner
        > personally) asked me when are we going to have another discussion on
        RS or
        > A. I said, let me finnish the book. Ah, he said, is it taking you so
        long? I
        > felt some shame, because to be honest I have at that time become so
        > intterested in it that i started making notes. I said, i have to be
        > thorough, I'm making notes, and what's more I discovered he is just
        > mixed-up weirdo disciple of Christ. How come asked my friend.
        Because, I
        > said. he took all of the Sermon on the mount and all of the Bhudda's
        > eightfold path and some of the Baghavad Gita and what not else and
        dishes it
        > up as a stew for soulgrowth, but he leaves out the human being, just
        > bout the pupil, and for one no critique of development. I don't
        think it is
        > right. Oh, said my friend, and laughed, refusing to comment further.
        > Ten months later, he asked me how far i was with KoHW. I had to be
        honest. I
        > said, I'm stuck. Where? he asked. With Enlightenment, I said (you
        will know
        > it is part of the stages of innitiation) Where RS speaks about the
        > need to enhance his moral strength. I quote: "throughout his training,
        > indeed, he must continually enhance his moral strength, his inner
        > and his powers of observation. To take one example only:during the
        > elementary exercises for enlightenment the pupil must take care to
        > that his compassion for the human and animal worlds and his response
        to the
        > beauty of nature are constantly increasing. Failing this care, the
        > would continually blunt his feelings and sensitivity; his heart
        would become
        > hardened and the senses blunted. And that would eventually lead to
        > results."
        > So my friend said: But how or why does it bother you? You are not a
        pupil? I
        > said, I know, but that when hé told me to do the exercises, I took
        it very
        > seriously and did so. And now I was scared, in case what RS said was
        true -
        > remember, I explained, I am still there where everything is 50/50
        true or
        > false.
        > So, he said, just do it then, and go through it. I said, no, I
        can't, I hate
        > too much. There's been too much pain in my life, my history, my
        family, my
        > country.
        > We sat quiet for a long time, each with his own thoughts. And
        because I knew
        > some of what he told me about his own rather wild life, as wild as
        my own, I
        > think we touched in thought on what was know about RS and others on
        > esoteric paths. Eventually he said skip all and go to the end; read the
        > Appendix. (It is the appendix to the 8th edition, 1918) Then go
        > read Life and Death and the Great guardian of the Threshold, and
        then read
        > the Conditions of Esoteric Training, and when you've done that, we
        can talk.
        > This book is no good after one read only. You can come to the
        > at a later stage.
        > Such I did. And my old-falling-into-pieces KoHW is marked with most
        of the
        > quotes you mentioned here. it was such a good reminder. Thank you.
        > Best
        > engemi

        Your welcome.

        Thank you for some of your experiences with the developmental Path. It
        seems like some things need time to unfold - not just a matter of
        mental grasping of information but experience and indeed feeling. It's
        a challenging proposition for sure.

        I like the KoHW and it's approach to the subject of initiation. I also
        feel it's very well written and organised as a book.

        Anyway, thanks for your comments.



        > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        > Christ-centred
        > > Interesting:
        > >
        > > " 15:12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another, even as I
        > > have loved you. 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone
        > > lay down his life for his friends. 15:14 You are my friends, if you do
        > > whatever I command you. 15:15 No longer do I call you servants, for
        > > the servant doesn't know what his lord does. But I have called you
        > > friends, for everything that I heard from my Father, I have made known
        > > to you. 15:16 You didn't choose me, but I chose you, and appointed
        > > you, that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should
        > > remain; that whatever you will ask of the Father in my name, he may
        > > give it to you.
        > >
        > > 15:17 "I command these things to you, that you may love one another.
        > > 15:18 If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it
        > > hated you. 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love its
        > > own. But because you are not of the world, since I chose you out of
        > > the world, therefore the world hates you. 15:20 Remember the word that
        > > I said to you: 'A servant is not greater than his lord.'* If they
        > > persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word,
        > > they will keep yours also. 15:21 But all these things will they do to
        > > you for my name's sake, because they don't know him who sent me. 15:22
        > > If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have had sin; but
        > > now they have no excuse for their sin. 15:23 He who hates me, hates my
        > > Father also. 15:24 If I hadn't done among them the works which no one
        > > else did, they wouldn't have had sin. But now have they seen and also
        > > hated both me and my Father. 15:25 But this happened so that the word
        > > may be fulfilled which was written in their law, 'They hated me
        > > without a cause.'*"
        > >
        > > [Source: The World English Bible (WEB), Book of John,
        > > http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext05/web4310h.htm%5d
        > >
        > >
        > > "23:25 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean
        > > the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of
        > > extortion and unrighteousness. 23:26 You blind Pharisee, first clean
        > > the inside of the cup and of the platter, that its outside may become
        > > clean also."
        > >
        > >
        > > "23:27 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are
        > > like whitened tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but inwardly
        > > are full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. 23:28 Even so
        > > you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full
        > > of hypocrisy and iniquity."
        > >
        > >
        > > "24:1 Jesus went out from the temple, and was going on his way. His
        > > disciples came to him to show him the buildings of the temple. 24:2
        > > But he answered them, "Don't you see all of these things? Most
        > > certainly I tell you, there will not be left here one stone on
        > > another, that will not be thrown down."
        > >
        > > 24:3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him
        > > privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? What is the
        > > sign of your coming, and of the end of the age?"
        > >
        > > 24:4 Jesus answered them, "Be careful that no one leads you astray.
        > > 24:5 For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and
        > > will lead many astray. 24:6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars.
        > > See that you aren't troubled, for all this must happen, but the end is
        > > not yet. 24:7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against
        > > kingdom; and there will be famines, plagues, and earthquakes in
        > > various places. 24:8 But all these things are the beginning of birth
        > > pains. 24:9 Then they will deliver you up to oppression, and will kill
        > > you. You will be hated by all of the nations for my name's sake. 24:10
        > > Then many will stumble, and will deliver up one another, and will hate
        > > one another. 24:11 Many false prophets will arise, and will lead many
        > > astray. 24:12 Because iniquity will be multiplied, the love of many
        > > will grow cold. 24:13 But he who endures to the end, the same will be
        > > saved. 24:14 This Good News of the Kingdom will be preached in the
        > > whole world for a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will
        > > come."
        > >
        > > [The World English Bible (WEB), Book of Matthew,
        > > http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext05/web4010h.htm%5d
        > >
        > >
        > > Regards,
        > >
        > > Keith
        > >
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