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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: occult lodges and islam

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  • Tarjei Straume
    ... I end up with a feeling of ambivalence when I m trying to decipher Steiner s take on the Arabs. On the one hand, he says in a lecture somewhere that we
    Message 1 of 31 , Nov 7, 2003
      At 01:33 07.11.2003, Christine Natale wrote:

      >I hear over and over again so many platitudes about Islam being a
      >beautiful religion. Well, after 911 I decided to see for myself and
      >downloaded most of the Koran and started to read it. I haven't read it
      >through and I can't say 100% that it is what I think it is, but my
      >impression so far is that it is a mish-mash of old testament stories
      >combined with the kind of hell and brimstone stuff that would make a
      >Southern Baptist pale in comparison. There is no forgiveness, no
      >flexibility. Everything is totally black and white, us and them, heaven
      >and hell. No possiblility of interpretation or redemption.

      I end up with a feeling of ambivalence when I'm trying to decipher
      Steiner's take on the Arabs. On the one hand, he says in a lecture
      somewhere that we Westerners usually have no idea of the special
      relationship an Arab has to the Christ. On the other hand, he also talks
      about the Arabic-Islamic world as the one and only corner of the earth
      where the culture has not been touched by the Christ Impulse, where they've
      managed to dodge the Golgotha Mystery altogether. I still haven't figured
      it out.

      >And even if that were not enough, one must have a critical eye toward any
      >religion in its practice as well as its theory. There is nothing of love
      >or understanding or forgiveness in any of its practices, either. There is
      >only power and oppression, and I mean particularly to its own people,
      >especially women.

      On the other hand, the distinction needs to be made between a religion like
      that and its individual followers. When spiritual, social, and cultural
      impulses and practices that may have been right for an earler age or epoch,
      is preserved and continued beyond its rightful time, such streams become
      hijacked by ahrimanic and even asuric beings and end up serving the
      hindering gods. For this reason, all Old Age religions based upon faith in
      old scriptures, supporting a mode of cognition that should have ended
      completely around 1950, are becoming increasingly evil, and we're only
      seeing the faint beginnings of this.

      But remember the Good Samaritan, who today would translate into the Good
      Muslim. Dottie seems to be talking about the spirituality of beautiful
      souls who happen to be Muslims.

      Tarjei
      http://uncletaz.com/
    • dottie zold
      Hi Tarjei, In reading this book by Karen Armstrong I am getting a better feel for Muhammed and what he endeavored to bring to his people. One of the things
      Message 31 of 31 , Nov 14, 2003
        Hi Tarjei,

        In reading this book by Karen Armstrong I am getting a
        better 'feel' for Muhammed and what he endeavored to
        bring to his people.

        One of the things that strikes me is that its path was
        similar to that of Judiasm: in order to get to one God
        they had to take down the 'daughters of God'. That was
        the missing piece for Muhammed on the way to
        monotheism as it was for the Jews.

        Interestingly as well is that what he was working on
        was a change of consciousness from family blood ties
        to spirit ties that outgrow the familial bounds
        similar to Jesus' concepts in a way.

        I find that Muhammed was very much inspired by the
        story of Mary and Jesus. There is a reference to them
        early on that actually insinuates to the exoteric way
        of reading her being a virgin. However when reading it
        from an esoteric level the 'veil' being lifted is
        clearly understood.

        Well, what I am coming to is that Muhammed seems to
        have brought a religion that centered on surrendering
        (islam) ones total self to God. And the way to show
        that was through letting go of worldly goods and
        giving to the poor and taking care of them. But what
        strikes me is this absolute 'feel' I have about the
        self (nafas) getting its house in order. So, in a way
        although it is one religion it seems to be made up of
        singular people on a quest for God. Although they call
        themselves Muslims as one their quest is really each
        one by themselves. It kind of reminds me a wee bit of
        Self Realization Fellowship by Paramahansa Yogananda.
        It has that sense of righting oneself before God.
        Almost like he took the Christ revelation and and then
        became one of the men that achieved a self
        revelation. Almost reminds me of the snake.

        At one point the book speaks of 'exciting' the hatred
        of the Jews. It is pretty apparant that they were
        considered 'trash' among the peoples in that region.
        And it seems they truly never recovered even unto this
        day their own sense of worth. Almost as if they are
        always in the place of having to defend their honor.
        And not really only their own but that of their
        Prophet as well. They know he is not what the Western
        world says and they are always fighting some uphill
        battle in their minds.

        One last thing before I go. I find it extremely
        interesting that the Satanic Versus as related by
        Rushdie actually speak to two lines where Muhammed
        gave credence to the 'daughters of God'. He then tried
        to and actually did take the versus back and claimed
        that they were slaves just as the everyday people
        were, and that one could not look to them for guidance
        or help.

        Well, maybe this is the last piece before I go:) They
        have the most remarkable references to Satan that I
        have ever seen. To them their was no original sin.
        Muhammed believed that this was all a part of Gods
        plan. That in the end Satan will be the last to be
        saved but he will be. Also he states that it is Satan
        who loved God the most. I think of Lucifer here.

        Anyway, the more I read of this Muhammed the more I
        come to understand how he was able to achieve what he
        did in such a short time. He truly had his face on God
        and inspired others to do the same.


        Tarjei you wrote:
        > This point of yours was actually corroborated by
        > Rudolf Steiner when he
        > said that Arabic materialism was blunted by the
        > emergence of Islam. So RS
        > implies that this religion was a progressive force
        > when it was introduced
        > in the 7th century. Apparently, the destructive
        > forces inherent in
        > "Arabism" and connected with 666, Sorath and so on,
        > has hijacked this
        > religious stream because it has outlived its alotted
        > era long ago.

        Tarjei
        > Specific manifestations of egoism. When a young man
        > kills men, women, and
        > children at random by blowing himself to pieces with
        > them in the firm
        > belief that he will be rewarded with 70 virgins in
        > Paradise for such a
        > deed, we're not only talking about merciless egoism,
        > but a specific variety
        > of it, probably exclusively found among Muslims.

        Dottie

        Yeah, this thing with the virgins bothers me a bit. I
        think it is ridiculing them and this is not what
        Muhammed had in mind physically. When I sink into the
        Koran I will see what that means. In the mean time I
        am going to speak to my friend about this.

        I am not so sure it is found exclusively among Muslims
        but I do not know how to make the argument. What comes
        to mind are the 'fundies' of the world. We have people
        here in the states killing doctors who perform
        abortions in recent years. And I believe it will only
        get worse as the right gets more power in regards to
        other segments of society as well. We are about to
        face the 'gay rights to marriage issue' and this is a
        powder keg waiting to go. And they believe they are
        doing what God would want them to do. Its pretty
        gross.
        And I wonder what is the difference regarding the ego
        of having 70 virgins versus doing an evil thing for
        Gods grace?

        Thanks,
        dottie

        p.s. I know I am not the best one to converse on this
        subject however I would like to say it has inspired me
        to become more knowledgable regarding a group of
        people who are going to light the world on fire.

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