Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: occult lodges and islam
- At 01:33 07.11.2003, Christine Natale wrote:
>I hear over and over again so many platitudes about Islam being aI end up with a feeling of ambivalence when I'm trying to decipher
>beautiful religion. Well, after 911 I decided to see for myself and
>downloaded most of the Koran and started to read it. I haven't read it
>through and I can't say 100% that it is what I think it is, but my
>impression so far is that it is a mish-mash of old testament stories
>combined with the kind of hell and brimstone stuff that would make a
>Southern Baptist pale in comparison. There is no forgiveness, no
>flexibility. Everything is totally black and white, us and them, heaven
>and hell. No possiblility of interpretation or redemption.
Steiner's take on the Arabs. On the one hand, he says in a lecture
somewhere that we Westerners usually have no idea of the special
relationship an Arab has to the Christ. On the other hand, he also talks
about the Arabic-Islamic world as the one and only corner of the earth
where the culture has not been touched by the Christ Impulse, where they've
managed to dodge the Golgotha Mystery altogether. I still haven't figured
>And even if that were not enough, one must have a critical eye toward anyOn the other hand, the distinction needs to be made between a religion like
>religion in its practice as well as its theory. There is nothing of love
>or understanding or forgiveness in any of its practices, either. There is
>only power and oppression, and I mean particularly to its own people,
that and its individual followers. When spiritual, social, and cultural
impulses and practices that may have been right for an earler age or epoch,
is preserved and continued beyond its rightful time, such streams become
hijacked by ahrimanic and even asuric beings and end up serving the
hindering gods. For this reason, all Old Age religions based upon faith in
old scriptures, supporting a mode of cognition that should have ended
completely around 1950, are becoming increasingly evil, and we're only
seeing the faint beginnings of this.
But remember the Good Samaritan, who today would translate into the Good
Muslim. Dottie seems to be talking about the spirituality of beautiful
souls who happen to be Muslims.
- Hi Tarjei,
In reading this book by Karen Armstrong I am getting a
better 'feel' for Muhammed and what he endeavored to
bring to his people.
One of the things that strikes me is that its path was
similar to that of Judiasm: in order to get to one God
they had to take down the 'daughters of God'. That was
the missing piece for Muhammed on the way to
monotheism as it was for the Jews.
Interestingly as well is that what he was working on
was a change of consciousness from family blood ties
to spirit ties that outgrow the familial bounds
similar to Jesus' concepts in a way.
I find that Muhammed was very much inspired by the
story of Mary and Jesus. There is a reference to them
early on that actually insinuates to the exoteric way
of reading her being a virgin. However when reading it
from an esoteric level the 'veil' being lifted is
Well, what I am coming to is that Muhammed seems to
have brought a religion that centered on surrendering
(islam) ones total self to God. And the way to show
that was through letting go of worldly goods and
giving to the poor and taking care of them. But what
strikes me is this absolute 'feel' I have about the
self (nafas) getting its house in order. So, in a way
although it is one religion it seems to be made up of
singular people on a quest for God. Although they call
themselves Muslims as one their quest is really each
one by themselves. It kind of reminds me a wee bit of
Self Realization Fellowship by Paramahansa Yogananda.
It has that sense of righting oneself before God.
Almost like he took the Christ revelation and and then
became one of the men that achieved a self
revelation. Almost reminds me of the snake.
At one point the book speaks of 'exciting' the hatred
of the Jews. It is pretty apparant that they were
considered 'trash' among the peoples in that region.
And it seems they truly never recovered even unto this
day their own sense of worth. Almost as if they are
always in the place of having to defend their honor.
And not really only their own but that of their
Prophet as well. They know he is not what the Western
world says and they are always fighting some uphill
battle in their minds.
One last thing before I go. I find it extremely
interesting that the Satanic Versus as related by
Rushdie actually speak to two lines where Muhammed
gave credence to the 'daughters of God'. He then tried
to and actually did take the versus back and claimed
that they were slaves just as the everyday people
were, and that one could not look to them for guidance
Well, maybe this is the last piece before I go:) They
have the most remarkable references to Satan that I
have ever seen. To them their was no original sin.
Muhammed believed that this was all a part of Gods
plan. That in the end Satan will be the last to be
saved but he will be. Also he states that it is Satan
who loved God the most. I think of Lucifer here.
Anyway, the more I read of this Muhammed the more I
come to understand how he was able to achieve what he
did in such a short time. He truly had his face on God
and inspired others to do the same.
Tarjei you wrote:
> This point of yours was actually corroborated byTarjei
> Rudolf Steiner when he
> said that Arabic materialism was blunted by the
> emergence of Islam. So RS
> implies that this religion was a progressive force
> when it was introduced
> in the 7th century. Apparently, the destructive
> forces inherent in
> "Arabism" and connected with 666, Sorath and so on,
> has hijacked this
> religious stream because it has outlived its alotted
> era long ago.
> Specific manifestations of egoism. When a young manDottie
> kills men, women, and
> children at random by blowing himself to pieces with
> them in the firm
> belief that he will be rewarded with 70 virgins in
> Paradise for such a
> deed, we're not only talking about merciless egoism,
> but a specific variety
> of it, probably exclusively found among Muslims.
Yeah, this thing with the virgins bothers me a bit. I
think it is ridiculing them and this is not what
Muhammed had in mind physically. When I sink into the
Koran I will see what that means. In the mean time I
am going to speak to my friend about this.
I am not so sure it is found exclusively among Muslims
but I do not know how to make the argument. What comes
to mind are the 'fundies' of the world. We have people
here in the states killing doctors who perform
abortions in recent years. And I believe it will only
get worse as the right gets more power in regards to
other segments of society as well. We are about to
face the 'gay rights to marriage issue' and this is a
powder keg waiting to go. And they believe they are
doing what God would want them to do. Its pretty
And I wonder what is the difference regarding the ego
of having 70 virgins versus doing an evil thing for
p.s. I know I am not the best one to converse on this
subject however I would like to say it has inspired me
to become more knowledgable regarding a group of
people who are going to light the world on fire.
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