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Re: The Three Archangels and the Fourth

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  • dottie zold
    ... and ... of ... the ... soul. ... evolution ... which ... Dearest Martha, This has been working in me and I just realized why it is that I alway see three
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 1, 2006
      Martha brought:

      > Rudolf Steiner:
      >
      > "The Cross and the Triangle in Cosmos and Man
      >
      > Four mighty exalted figures stand in space, each in one of the
      > cardinal directions. They thus form the Cosmic Cross. They direct
      and
      > lead world events and are the servants of the One who is the Life
      of
      > the Sun. During each of the cosmic days one of them in turn is
      > inspired by the Sun-Spirit. They are primordial forces which are
      > mirrored as thinking, feeling and willing in the cosmos and within
      > the human soul. One, which is the mightiest among them, contains
      > within itself the forces of the other three. It is the most perfect
      > and only through it can the others be seen and understood. It is
      the
      > immediate servant of the great Sun-Spirit and directs the future
      > towards the present. Its rays of light bring knowledge to man's
      soul.
      > Its light shines out of the East like the announcement of a new day.
      >
      > Each of these four figures directs one of the planetary stages of
      > earth evolution. The three which are the primordial forces mirrored
      > in thinking, feeling and willing, led the past planetary stages of
      > earth-evolution, known as Ancient Saturn, Old Sun and Old Moon. The
      > fourth is the special leader during the stage of the Earth-
      evolution
      > itself. That is why it includes the forces of the other three,
      which
      > repeat their activity on earth, and brings them to a state of
      > equilibrium by adding its own forces to theirs. On its right hand,
      > towards the North, stands the one which is particularly connected
      > with the Saturn-evolution.

      Dearest Martha,

      This has been working in me and I just realized why it is that I
      alway see 'three' the fourth is still to come in a way! And a thought
      keeps bugging my head and it is that the Moon, Saturn and Sun are
      related somehow to the blood, brain, and heart, organs that begin to
      work independantly, I so don't have spell check here, from one
      another. And that this Saturn is along the lines of a Satan, which
      makes me wonder about the Trinity of Christ, Ahriman and Lucifer.

      Are Satan and Saturn related? Pardon my ignorance if this is a well
      known thing. And if so, then, well, ...can't hold it.....This would
      be the coldness in a way and then Lucifer the heat, and then Christ
      in the middle, I've been reading this I think somewhere, and that is
      why when they are all together there is a harmony once they've been
      purified?

      Well, these are just thoughts in my head and I wanted to share them
      in case you had anytime. I shall check out the cycle you offered up
      by our teacher. But that angel with the fire, hmmm, he's kinda
      interesting huh?! Whew!

      Love to you,
      Dottie




      Its light shines with a blue sheen, paler
      > than that of the others. It is an exalted and austere figure, given
      > the name Uriel. Towards the West stands the figure belonging to the
      > Sun-evolution. Its light rays out with a golden sheen. It is an
      > exalted and powerful figure known by the name Raphael. Towards the
      > South stands the one which is connected with the evolution of Old
      > Moon. It shines with a silvery white light. It is an exalted and
      > loving figure known by the name Gabriel. The fourth one, which
      > contains the forces of the others within it and joins its own
      forces
      > to theirs, rays forth its light from the East with a rose-colored
      > nuance and a golden sheen. It directs and leads the evolution of
      the
      > earth and thereby works on into the future. An exalted and
      victorious
      > figure which bears within it the capacities of the other three, it
      is
      > called Michael. Thus stand the four mighty Archangels and direct
      the
      > events of the world...."
      >
      > "...Just as the four parts of man's being are connected with the
      four
      > Archangels [Uriel, physical; Raphael, etheric; Gabriel, astral;
      > Michael, Ego] by which their structure was first laid down, so
      there
      > are cosmic powers connected with the three higher forces of man's
      > nature [Spirit Self, Life Spirit, Spirit Man]. They form a triangle
      > which shines with a golden light."
      >
      > Concerning the History and Content of the Higher Degrees of the
      > Esoteric School, 1904-1914, published by Etheric Dimensions Press.
      >
      > Stephen C: why would other spiritual sources (such as Dion Fortune)
      > identify different seasons with the Archangels than did Steiner?
      > Also, you noted what appeared a contradictory statement from RS
      about
      > Lucifer.
      >
      > He often pointed out how one explanation or understanding is but
      one
      > side of a dynamic multi-faceted living spiritual reality. These
      > beings also change their positions or tasks or orientations over
      > our "time," and perhaps different National Spirits present them
      > somewhat differently. Imagine if you were able to meet Lucifer face-
      > to-face, just how unbelievably huge, complex, dynamic and
      > incomprehensible this Being would be, a strange disharmonious
      > symphony of good and evil attributes. How then could it be
      described
      > without contradiction?
      >
      > By the way, we can't even breathe without breathing in the National
      > Spirit, who lives in the air of his nation and country.
      >
    • dottie zold
      Dear Friends, Something is speaking to me in regards to regular every day changes that occur while on the esoteric path or the Anthroposophical path. And I
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 2, 2006
        Dear Friends,

        Something is speaking to me in regards to regular
        every day changes that occur while on the esoteric
        path or the Anthroposophical path. And I think what I
        might like to initiate is, is a booklet, or maybe just
        an exercise of working with one another in putting
        something together that others, like ourselves, who
        find them selves on this path, will be able to read
        and better understand what these changes are they are
        going through, and where they correspond to our
        teachers work.

        It is slowly dawning on me that I have been having
        these experiences, not speaking on spiritual sight per
        se, rather on how the spirit moves us to higher
        ground. And I think it is time to have something like
        this in a booklet. Our teacher has these things in
        many different places but I think a time has come that
        we can be able to put something together, along with
        references to the books that share the actual
        reasoning why, that will speak of a modern experience.


        I realize that many of us on this list are having or
        have had certain types of experiences that correspond
        with these changes. I think if we come together and
        allow a booklet to be formed that the student will
        have a practical every day booklet that will allow him
        to recognize the intimate changes and be able to
        validate them along the way, to notice them and to put
        a name and an action towards them: this way he will
        know where he is heading and what to look for.

        I offer this up as I am realizing some past
        experiences, fe, the 'spirit moving back in the body
        as I wake up from a nap or something, that actually
        show how it is that the brain is slowly separating
        from working with the other organs, have their roots
        in actual changes that are occurring in the spirit. I
        spoke about it but nobody could offer up what was
        happening to me. I mean here I could actually feel the
        muscles running over my body in a way, or experience
        them as separated, and I didn't know that it is part
        of what happens when one undertakes a serious journey
        of the spirit's awakening. It's taken me six months or
        so to find out, and that is only because of diligent
        search for I didn't even know what, only to find it in
        a book, but still not connect it, until my Angel or
        those working with me from the spirit world, or even
        possibly me being aware of what I am experiencing
        during the time of sleep, or even possibly just that
        the veil is coming down, to connect the dots. It's
        important that we bring something new forth that
        others will recognize in themselves, and it will
        encourage them, and at the same time deepen them. And
        we shall have a reference section or possibly quotes
        that share where this is found in our teachers work.

        It has come to me this morning, or maybe even last
        night, that I am about to work on these heart
        changes/separation in a way. I can look back and see
        that I was a heart force child, and then I found
        Rudolf Steiner's work: I held everything in my heart
        and it had no thinking, just feeling. And when I found
        his work, I began to embark on a thinking path. And
        now I have come full circle round with the thinking,
        although not yet with the clear expression of it. And
        I am aware that my heart forces took a back seat to
        allow this thinking to come forth: opposite of many of
        you on this list.

        Now that I am aware of the concept that the brain,
        heart, and blood, begin to work separately, I can
        really place that in time space and in the personal. I
        can now better understand how it is that I am putting
        myself around these amazing older women who are loving
        me and cherishing me and soothing me and encouraging
        me. On list it is Martha specifically that just walked
        me into the next level in myself. It was she that
        allowed me to suddenly see the other women around me
        that were loving me like her few posts did. And I
        didn't realize I was so thirsty for it: not from an
        ego standpoint of view but from a 'good job girl'
        point of view. Even my Reiki teacher sharing with me
        after a recent session that she became aware of all
        that it took for me to get where I am today. And it
        came crashing down on me how very true that is: each
        of my incarnations are an uphill battle of the forces
        of this physical world. It is the price one pays along
        side of karma for daring to come back into this realm
        once more. I remember saying that I felt Sergei
        Prokofieff recoiled when someone asked him a question
        about reincarnation: I had felt like he was reliving a
        lashing or sorts or recalling a lashing, being given
        while reentering this physical realm. I realize
        through this that I am learning to bring my heart
        forces back into the fold. But if I hadn't found the
        book by Rudolf Steiner about the 'effects' I might not
        have been aware or have been open to what my Angel
        or/and the Spirit World is trying to truly share with
        me. And it is important that we are aware, its
        important that we recongize that we are bringing
        something from the unconscious realm to the conscoius
        realm. We don't have to do these things secretly
        anymore. The children are coming in with these
        experiences and something has got to meet them,
        something has got to be there that will allow them to
        be educated about their experiences and not just
        thrown into the background or to be exploited as we
        are seeing today. Not only is this a new time for
        Anthroposophy but also for Waldorf. I think this has
        got to be recongized as well. I think that is what
        alot of teachers are feeling as well. But maybe they
        don't recognize why and it becomes almost an 'anti
        Steiner said' group without realizing what they are
        trying to birth forth from within: a new age.

        And it is directly tied to our friends who pass as
        well. It is directly tied as we have actual soul
        movements in such a shock as Harvey friend has
        provided by his passing through the gates. And then
        the direct heart forces swinging through Brad in that
        moment were just the icn=ing on the cake.

        So, I am thinking we should come together and bring
        about a practical workings of spiritual research from
        the personal realm. Something that students, I am
        speaking of adults who study Rudolf Steiner, can use
        as a recognition. And yes, we can be afraid that this
        one will find it and that one will find it and so
        forth but the bigger issue is that it is happening
        today, and either we can be a part of the guidance or
        we can allow others to come in and guide that have
        nothing to do with the plain common sense of our
        teachers work. If we do not offer it to them they will
        find something else.

        So those are my thoughts this morning. And I would
        have to say that either myself or Martha, not knowing
        if she has time, or maybe she can recommend someone,
        will be the mediator of the ideas. And then we can
        take the booklet to Dennis Klocek and see if he will
        give us some thoughts pertaining to this project.

        What say ye friends,
        Dottie

        p.s. and obviously I will not be the one who edits the
        work. Whew.






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      • Stephen Clarke
        ... is ... Satan, aka Ahriman, can be considered as the Double of what is Below in Darkness - Saturn Mysteries - much the same as Lucifer, aka the Devil ,
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 2, 2006
          Dear Dottie:

          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "dottie zold"
          <dottie_z@...> wrote:

          > And that this Saturn is along the lines of a Satan, which
          > makes me wonder about the Trinity of Christ, Ahriman and Lucifer.
          >
          > Are Satan and Saturn related? Pardon my ignorance if this is a well
          > known thing. And if so, then, well, ...can't hold it.....This would
          > be the coldness in a way and then Lucifer the heat, and then Christ
          > in the middle, I've been reading this I think somewhere, and that
          is
          > why when they are all together there is a harmony once they've been
          > purified?


          Satan, aka Ahriman, can be considered as the Double of what
          is "Below" in Darkness - Saturn Mysteries - much the same as Lucifer,
          aka the "Devil", can be considered to be the unredeemed (Double)
          aspect of what is "Above", in the Light.

          That's one way of looking at it.

          S.
        • emil_rio
          Dottie,(Also, a question for Stephen C): I appreciate your contribution from the book The Effects of Esoteric Development, as its perspective of the brain
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 2, 2006
            Dottie,(Also, a question for Stephen C):

            I appreciate your contribution from the book "The Effects of Esoteric
            Development," as its perspective of the brain being like the cosmos
            or starry world and the heart being like the sun, or solar system,
            proved important for some work I'm doing right now. I studied this
            book some years ago, and what an amazing experience it is even to
            begin thinking about the possibility of brain, heart and spine
            separating as a result of spiritual work (thinking, feeling,
            willing). But rest assured, says RS, "harmony can be attained through
            a sound study of Anthroposophy." So, Dottie, that puts you well into
            the safe zone. I'm not familiar with "Stella Natura 2006" that
            Bradford suggested, but it sounds like it would be effective. Still,
            it seems like a good idea to put together a booklet, or at least an
            independent notebook to begin, touching on experiences of these
            separating parts of one's self, likely to come out powerfully in
            dreams and images, especially during those twilight times. There's a
            really important American Elemental who occupies the Atlas-Axis joint
            of the cervical spine, the one that supports the weight of the head
            and turns it. It is the most complex joint in the human body. You
            might consider asking "Atlas" to get in touch with you before going
            off to sleep.

            This is a very advanced book, as is the book I referred to for the
            post on the Three Archangels and the Fourth - "Concerning the History
            and Content of the Higher Degrees of the Esoteric School, 1904-1914."
            I believe mine is the last copy the Wellspring Book Shop (in London)
            had, and it was very expensive, but worth every penny. It might be
            available elsewhere, I'm not sure.

            Stephen: I would like to be able to contribute more on your meso-
            American studies, but will need to do more reading and research on
            it, including your own work. The question I have: I was looking at a
            Robert Powell piece on the internet in which he writes about the
            Jupiterian character of the German folk-spirit, and how this
            Archangel (the folk-spirit is an Archangel, as you know) became
            driven back, unable to work when the counterfeit spirit of the Third
            Reich gained hold. My concern is for the American folk spirit* during
            the progressive ahrimanic onslaught. I believe there's a counterfeit
            spirit trying to usurp the true American spirit and is the cause of
            many serious problems in America, political, criminal, capitalistic,
            militaristic, etc. etc. Therefore, some of the anti-Americanism from
            esotericists I'm observing, some on the elists, some on the internet,
            distresses me, because I feel there needs to be a careful analysis of
            what in America, (the U.S.), is and is not issuing from the true folk
            spirit. If there can be no distinction between the two, no
            realization of this usurper, then we are potentially undermining
            America.

            (* I believe also that a clear distinction needs to be made between
            the folk, national and geographic spirits. The "usurper" may be
            geographic, or of the underworld.)

            Any thoughts on this? Stephen, and others?

            M.
          • Stephen Clarke
            ... a ... Third ... during ... counterfeit ... capitalistic, ... from ... internet, ... of ... folk ... Good questions, the answer to which depends a lot on
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 2, 2006
              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "emil_rio"
              <emil_rio@...> wrote:

              > Stephen: I would like to be able to contribute more on your meso-
              > American studies, but will need to do more reading and research on
              > it, including your own work. The question I have: I was looking at
              a
              > Robert Powell piece on the internet in which he writes about the
              > Jupiterian character of the German folk-spirit, and how this
              > Archangel (the folk-spirit is an Archangel, as you know) became
              > driven back, unable to work when the counterfeit spirit of the
              Third
              > Reich gained hold. My concern is for the American folk spirit*
              during
              > the progressive ahrimanic onslaught. I believe there's a
              counterfeit
              > spirit trying to usurp the true American spirit and is the cause of
              > many serious problems in America, political, criminal,
              capitalistic,
              > militaristic, etc. etc. Therefore, some of the anti-Americanism
              from
              > esotericists I'm observing, some on the elists, some on the
              internet,
              > distresses me, because I feel there needs to be a careful analysis
              of
              > what in America, (the U.S.), is and is not issuing from the true
              folk
              > spirit. If there can be no distinction between the two, no
              > realization of this usurper, then we are potentially undermining
              > America.
              >
              > (* I believe also that a clear distinction needs to be made between
              > the folk, national and geographic spirits. The "usurper" may be
              > geographic, or of the underworld.)


              Good questions, the answer to which depends a lot on how they're
              framed. I don't have a quick or clear answer at this time, although
              it's been on my mind since Day One of my involvement with being an
              American. I'll think about it. American does belly up to the bar on
              Double issues; this dissuades the more delicate types and provokes
              them to outright dismissal of all things American. Many of the
              famously overt dominant culture American traits are actually
              ascendant Double or adversarial impulses which have duped the mass
              mind into adopting them as their own.

              Stephen
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