Re: RS on Quetz. & Tezcat.
- Hello Dottie:
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "dottie zold"
> I am reading that wholeis
> cycle and I have to say that it is really convoluted and those few
> paragraphs have to be really sensed into and digged into as there
> a mixing of time periods in themYes, you are right; the time-period of the 'black magician' which RS
accessed via initiate capabilities and the time-period of the public-
domain Aztec material which derive from 1500 yrs later are
conflated. If you read my essays on the "Mexican Mystery" situation,
you will find that I have addressed this problem - and others - in a
way that helps to tease apart these elements.
And, as you say, there is a fog of confusion that overlays the whole
cycle. Steiner is struggling here. This carries over into careless
appreciation of Steiner's material:
From the back cover of the English-language Anthroposophic Press
edition of Inner Impulses in Evolution (GA 171):
"The history presented in most modern textbooks is a collection of
external facts, arranged chronologically, which seem to have occurred
without rhyme or reason. Rudolf Steiner takes these facts fully into
account in this work, but he also goes beyond them to describe the
inner impulses at work which make the intense drama of human
"These lectures take us to ancient Greece to witness the struggle
with the spirit of groundless fantasy, and to ancient Rome and the
struggle against the forces of centralized political domination. We
hear of how these two forces, opposed to humanity, threatened to
reach a tragic climax in the bloody Aztec mysteries of ancient
Mexico, until they were thwarted by the heroic efforts of a Mexican
"Steiner also describes the effects of these ancient conflicts -
physical and spiritual - as reflected in European history. The
Knights Templar and their persecution by Philip the Fair, the run-in
between Sir Thomas More and King Henry VIII, and the healing wisdom
of the Rosicrucians and in the works of Goethe are all dealt with. It
is thus possible, through these lectures, to concretely experience
part of the on-going drama of human development."
Notice anything funny about this? I requote for emphasis: "We hear
of how these two forces, opposed to humanity, threatened to reach a
tragic climax in the bloody Aztec mysteries of ancient Mexico, until
they were thwarted by the heroic efforts of a Mexican Sun-initiate."
By use of apologetically tortured retroactive syntactical
rationalization, one could spin sense out of this, but the casual
reader would be forgiven if he or she left with the impression that
Vitzliputzli lived in the late pre-Columbian Aztec period. But RS is
explicit that the Sun-hero lived in the early 1st C. AD.
There is a lot of such noise obscuring the 'signal' in these lectures.
I await further insights from you.
that definitely does not follow my
> teachers way of lecturin. And so much so that if this was the firstwhen
> book I had ever read of him I wouldn't have continued on further.
> There is something very mixed up. I mean it is not totally clear
> he moves in and out of Atlanta, at what point he is speaking of inone
> regards to Quetzalcatoatl, if in fact he is speaking of the same
> we are and as they were many different ones that have beenattributed
> to this name, of which he is speaking: I mean is hespeaking ...well,
> I'll just say the time periods are very mixed up and I would bevery
> very interested in seeing this in German. And I sense a hiddenthing
> just as I do the Mother. There is something very very hidden in howwhat
> he relates this and I believe he is also relating the 'Discovering'
> of America to two different time schemes.
> I wouldn't be able to make the claim you are without finding out
> the original was in German, maybe you have already, who was thesomething
> translator, who was the audience and so forth. The language used in
> this lecture cycle also feels very off. The way he describes
> a 'murder' is also language that I never experienced of him before.
> He also has this very strange scheme of lucifer and them creating
> another planet...well, I had never in all his books read of
> like that. And I can see if anyone has ever said he sounds likescifi
> must've read that one lecture. My teacher is fairly consistant inhow
> he expresses the mystery. He also may very well contradict himselfmuch
> often, as Dennis Klocek speaks on, but his language stays pretty
> the same. This is strange to me.how
> I need more time to sense into this and to ask for guidance as to
> I can find the truth of the matter. I've already just been pointedto
> the clue pertaining to how this cycle slips in and out of 'time'. Iuse
> don't think there is any solid spiritual ground to stand on if we
> these lectures without specifically digging very deep into how itis
> all put together. I mean have you reread the whole series. It isbeings
> really wierd how he moves in an out of time without really
> explaining it in his usual manner. I
> The slipping in and out of 'time' is a really important one because
> we have something that almost looks like it can go back to the
> beginning days of Adam and Eve. I mean before there were human
> as they are today. And then suddenly we are back at the 'discovery'way
> of America without any clear delineations. Wierd for my teachers
> of working or at least in my understanding. But I shall hold it inmy
> thoughts and I would like to see if we can readdress this at someinteresting
> later point or if you are willing to be open to rereading it again
> with an eye to time cycles specificaly. Also it is pretty
> that I get a very strong feeling from him regarding Bacon's ongoingwhat
> incarnations. Very very interesting. But the time cycles are very
> important for us to look at in regards to Quetzalcoatl and also
> the German translations are.
> All good things,
- Dear Dottie:
--- In email@example.com, dottie zold
>Uh, for what? When you are like you have been recently it is a
> Dearest Stephen,
> I have to thank you for your patience while conversing
> with me on a subject that is very dear to your heart
> and one that you have spent many years contemplating.
> In my earnestness to open up to something sometimes I
> am too forthright in a thing and I could use a little
> more consideration in my words. Pardon me.
> And with that I would like to share a gift you haveYour intuition on this is correct. Any particular aspect of such a
> given me and it is that I have been looking, since the
> Holy Nights, for the connection between the Four
> Archangels and Christ. And I have been looking to see
> how they interrelate with Christ specifically. This
> site I share with you has to do with an understanding
> of how the Bacab's were the sons of the Most High God
> of the Mayan tradition and how they were sent to the
> Four Corners of the Earth. But something about how
> they are one with Christ is what I had been looking
> for. And now I have found it on my travels researching
> some of what we were speaking on.
> I want to offer that I think it is really hard to
> really come up with a final say as to what color and
> what pole each of these amazing Four Brothers share. I
> find them to be on a pole of sorts that has to do with
> the Kabala and the dance inherent within it. I believe
> there is an ongoing shift and they are not static.
> That seems to make the most sense to me in all of the
> studies I have looked at.
deity or spirit like these is a variable; they can shift or chage
from culture to culture, from one time-period to another, or between
different planes of access. Or the beings themselves may swap
aaspects - the pre-Columbians in particular were crazy about this,
although there was a method to their madness. But the
essential "signature" or underlying quality of any elemental
Direction was constant, i.e; North is structure and dissolution of
structure, Dark Goddess qualities are always found here, etc.
Christ is most frequently accessed from without through the West -
the station of Love, although since his essential marker is his
identification with the Self, it is the Fifth Direction of the Center
which is his home plate. Interesting, becasue the Direction of the
Center has no spatial extension; likewise, the Ego has no body in the
sense that the physical, etheric, or astral do. And any Center
point is identical with every other Center point. One who is familiar
with mathematical theory on this will find a big inspiration on the
nature of the Christ with this. And it is true: if I find my Center
in Christ, I have also found yours. Being without dimension, a point-
entity can go or be - is - anywhere.
Those people on the link you posted are well-intentioned but
esoterically uninformed. The similarities between traditions in
different parts of the world come primarily from their individual
ability to contact and commune with constant and fixed inner-plane or
spiritual realities. Yes, there was a lot more navigation and
migration than we give ancient peoples credit for, but that was
secondary. And any pair of languages is going to have some odd
matches; that in itself doesn't prove anything - that's grasping at