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Re: Rethinking America or Amaruca from an esoteric point of view

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  • dottie zold
    ... Dottie: Hall is an Initiate. ... GA ... See, I don t read GA71 this way at all. Again, unless I have just read a different passage than you, it seems like
    Message 1 of 33 , Feb 1, 2006
      > > I want to share with you some of the legends found in
      > > this book by Manly P. Hall pertaining to our friend
      > > Quetzalcoatl.

      > Hall is reliable and has a good grasp of the lore and its details.

      Hall is an Initiate.

      > > page 21:
      > >
      > > " In the form of a feathered snake, Quetzalcoatl
      > > overshadowed a dynasty of rulers and priests, some of
      > > whom later assumed his name and even his mask symbol.
      > > These later Quetzalcoatls have been confused, like the
      > > several Zoroasters of Persia, into one person, with
      > > the resulting conflict in dates. Recent excavations
      > > would indicate that the cult of the Feathered Serpent
      > > was established before the beginning of the Christian
      > > Era and did not arise in the 10th or 11th century AD
      > > as held by some modern archaeologists. It is more
      > > likely that the ancient hero was said to have been
      > > reborn or to have overshadowed a later leader of the
      > > nation.
      > >
      > > All accounts imply that the religious Order which
      > > served the Mysteries of Quetzalcoatl was long
      > > established. (...) It is said of these missionaries
      > > that 'in Quetzalcoatl, who taught charity, gentleness,
      > > and peace, they thought they saw a disciple of Jesus
      > > Christ'.
      > > "Sahagun, in his General History, gave a number of
      > > details of the struggle between Quetzalcoatl, the
      > > civilizer, and Tezcalipoca, who apparently signified
      > > the primitive and sanguine religious cult of Mexico.
      > > The old priesthood, which practiced human sacrifice
      > > and adhered to a policy of war and destruction,
      > > resented the peaceful and gentle faith brought by
      > > Quetzalcoatl. In the end, Tezcalipoca, the
      > > personification of the sorcerers, contrived to poison
      > > the god-king, which implies that his doctrines were
      > > corrupted by false teachings and interpretations.

      > The interesting thing here for a student of Steiner is that in his
      > 171, RS states - and reiterates it to make his point - that Q is an
      > adversarial being (Luciferic with Ahrimanic qualities is his
      > implication) while Tezcatlipoca is a beneficent being, akin to
      > Jehovah.

      See, I don't read GA71 this way at all. Again, unless I have just
      read a different passage than you, it seems like a narrow
      interpretation of Rudolf Steiner's writing in GA71. And I have to
      say, this was the worst lecture that I have ever read in my life of
      his works. I don't know if it was in the translation or if it was in
      the note taking of the person sharing this for posterity. I mean
      really, the words were nothing like my teacher speaks, and more along
      the lines of a subjective thinking in a way. It felt very subjective
      to the person taking the notes or translating. Again, I don't know
      which but it definitely feels that there is a red herring in that
      piece of work.

      If we look closer at what is being said, even though it is quite
      mangled, I think we will find that it was Taotl that was a
      degradation of the Tao form from the East. And that it was this that
      was really causing harm to many of the tribes and their traditions.
      And I have to say, I don't think he says the term Jehovah in a good
      term at this point when he relates it to the other stream. And again
      Stephen I think we always have to take into our interpretations that
      just because a certain stream is mentioned does not mean in all of
      its negativity. We all, everything has this duality that lives within
      him, for we are all man.

      The interesting thing for me is that he is speaking of an etheric
      being when speaking of Quetzalcoatl. He is speaking of three of them
      in relations to the personalities you and I are speaking about. And I
      get he direclty relates, through color, the Emerald Tableau, of
      Quetzalcoatl: He directly relates this to Mercury which has a direct
      relationship to Raphael and back to Adam. Which of course also has a
      direct relationship to Sophia.

      If you have read something different than chapter V of GA71 could you
      please let me know what it is?

      Now, true, Q is rather fashionable nowdays, so any criticism
      > of him is rather politically incorrect - but some critical
      > of L's nature as seen in mesoamerican lore is certainly in order,
      > RS is, again, 180 degrees opposite to the prevailing consensus.
      > is a question that needs to be addressed.

      I would like us to address it, but I think we should look at it
      aknew. Let's bring it to the list so we can do this. If it is chapter
      V it is online at the elib. Who BTW could really use support even if
      you have a chance to just donate 10. a month. They have like a thing
      where it can be directly taken from your account on any date you
      choose. I guess I am just so thankful they are there for us to be
      able to check the data.

      > > Dottie: As I can only look at these stories now from a
      > > true myth pertaining to our spirit world I can
      > > possibly consider that the 'four friends' were the
      > > Four Archangels.

      > Yes; when the number 4 turns up in indigenous lore, the immediate
      > association is with the Four Directions, and that, in turn, with
      > Four Archangels that have those quadrants as their temples. Here
      > also is a link with the Foundation Stone Meditation and the Spirits
      > of the Directions as repeatedly mentioned in it.

      Well, then that means that our Four friends were directly related to
      the true founding of mysteries here in America. I think this can
      directly be 'seen' in Sedona Arizona and also felt in Northern
      California, well I cannot remember the name although the mountain
      that I love the most there is Black Beauty. She calls to me forever
      when I am travelling back home from the Wesak festival.

      Wanna bring it on list?

      Dan, I have no idea about that sacrafice, I'll leave it to the men to
      think on. Ick!

    • Stephen Clarke
      ... Uh, for what? When you are like you have been recently it is a delight. ... Your intuition on this is correct. Any particular aspect of such a deity or
      Message 33 of 33 , Feb 2, 2006
        Dear Dottie:

        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
        <dottie_z@...> wrote:
        > Dearest Stephen,
        > I have to thank you for your patience while conversing
        > with me on a subject that is very dear to your heart
        > and one that you have spent many years contemplating.
        > In my earnestness to open up to something sometimes I
        > am too forthright in a thing and I could use a little
        > more consideration in my words. Pardon me.

        Uh, for what? When you are like you have been recently it is a

        > And with that I would like to share a gift you have
        > given me and it is that I have been looking, since the
        > Holy Nights, for the connection between the Four
        > Archangels and Christ. And I have been looking to see
        > how they interrelate with Christ specifically. This
        > site I share with you has to do with an understanding
        > of how the Bacab's were the sons of the Most High God
        > of the Mayan tradition and how they were sent to the
        > Four Corners of the Earth. But something about how
        > they are one with Christ is what I had been looking
        > for. And now I have found it on my travels researching
        > some of what we were speaking on.
        > http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread36095/pg
        > I want to offer that I think it is really hard to
        > really come up with a final say as to what color and
        > what pole each of these amazing Four Brothers share. I
        > find them to be on a pole of sorts that has to do with
        > the Kabala and the dance inherent within it. I believe
        > there is an ongoing shift and they are not static.
        > That seems to make the most sense to me in all of the
        > studies I have looked at.

        Your intuition on this is correct. Any particular aspect of such a
        deity or spirit like these is a variable; they can shift or chage
        from culture to culture, from one time-period to another, or between
        different planes of access. Or the beings themselves may swap
        aaspects - the pre-Columbians in particular were crazy about this,
        although there was a method to their madness. But the
        essential "signature" or underlying quality of any elemental
        Direction was constant, i.e; North is structure and dissolution of
        structure, Dark Goddess qualities are always found here, etc.

        Christ is most frequently accessed from without through the West -
        the station of Love, although since his essential marker is his
        identification with the Self, it is the Fifth Direction of the Center
        which is his home plate. Interesting, becasue the Direction of the
        Center has no spatial extension; likewise, the Ego has no body in the
        sense that the physical, etheric, or astral do. And any Center
        point is identical with every other Center point. One who is familiar
        with mathematical theory on this will find a big inspiration on the
        nature of the Christ with this. And it is true: if I find my Center
        in Christ, I have also found yours. Being without dimension, a point-
        entity can go or be - is - anywhere.

        Those people on the link you posted are well-intentioned but
        esoterically uninformed. The similarities between traditions in
        different parts of the world come primarily from their individual
        ability to contact and commune with constant and fixed inner-plane or
        spiritual realities. Yes, there was a lot more navigation and
        migration than we give ancient peoples credit for, but that was
        secondary. And any pair of languages is going to have some odd
        matches; that in itself doesn't prove anything - that's grasping at

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