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Laurency: A consideration

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  • gaelman58
    Friends: In alluding to Steiner, Laurency said among other things... Steiner never grasped that what was meant was more and more refined kinds of matter due
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 2, 2006
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      Friends: In alluding to Steiner, Laurency said among other things...

      "Steiner never grasped that what was meant was more and more refined
      kinds of matter due to lesser and lesser density of primorial matter"

      "While studying Goethe's writings on the natural sciences, Steiner had
      the brain-wave...." yup, "brain-wave"

      "The new brain knows nothing of what the old brain knew but must be
      impregnated anew with mental molecules"...yup, "mental molecules"

      "In order to receive idea atoms the brain cells must be prepared by
      mental vibrations"...yup, "idea atoms"

      "...Steiner would have recognized the atomic structure of the
      superphysical worlds"

      Is this fellow a materialist?...apparently and then some...on the
      other hand, maybe at this moment I am distorting the reception of
      "brain waves" that I'm receiving and not properly configuring "idea
      atoms" and "mental molecules"....Gaelman
    • isenhart7
      ... Dear Gaelman, The fellow is a professed non-theosophist esoteric student of Pythagoras. If what he says is true then you are indeed distorting reception
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 2, 2006
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        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "gaelman58"
        <gaelman58@y...> wrote:

        > Is this fellow a materialist?...apparently and then some...on the
        > other hand, maybe at this moment I am distorting the reception of
        > "brain waves" that I'm receiving and not properly configuring "idea
        > atoms" and "mental molecules"....Gaelman

        Dear Gaelman,

        The fellow is a professed non-theosophist esoteric student of
        Pythagoras. If what he says is true then you are indeed distorting
        reception and it'll be eons before we can expect you to tune to a
        higher frequency.

        The good news is, and I'm not saying he's wrong, mind you but he's not
        (by virtue of the fact that he is a self-proclaimed student of
        Pythagoras)taking THE EVOLUTION OF CONSCIOUSNESS into account. The
        potential for the evolution of consciousness of the individual such as
        himself yes. The potential for humanity at large, no. Personally, I am
        a student, as I know many others on this list are of Bob Dylan, and
        thus I believe that the times they are a changin'.

        You know what I used to teach in Sunday School? I think you will get a
        kick out of this. I taught for maybe ten or so years comparative
        religion to sixth graders. And I kind of had this Deacon riding shot
        gun, though most of the time I just told stories, when I did teach for
        instance what the Greeks believed, he would burst forth with, "That's
        what the Greeks believed-that's not what The Church believes" lest
        there would be any confusion.

        Is it appropriate to be a follower of Pythagoras today? Plato?
        Aristotle? Ayn Rand, as far as I know, and I studied for awhile with
        her boy Nathaniel, was a follower of Aristotle. Now, this fellow says
        he's a follower of Pythagoras so that's interesting. I am at loss for a
        modern day champion of Platonism but perhaps someone else here knows.-
        Val
      • Steve Hale
        Steiner has said that atoms are the illusions caused when a genie comes into a man, making him a genius for theorizing such a thing and influencing the
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 2, 2006
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          Steiner has said that atoms are the illusions caused when a 'genie'
          comes into a man, making him a genius for theorizing such a thing
          and influencing the masses into believing it. In actuality, atoms
          and molecules, and ether bits and bytes, are the consequence of an
          astral body that stands somewhat outside its full ramification into
          the nervous system. A normal astral body permeates the nervous
          system all the way to its nerve endings; and this represents a
          normal, healthy human being. Atoms and molecules are the product of
          a materialism that goes back to the Academy of 666 AD.

          Thus, the Cosmic Intelligence born out of Jundi-Shapur, which sees
          and expounds atoms and molecules, meets the Cosmic Intelligence born
          out of Archangel Michael, which sees this all as a crock of shit,
          involving enslavement and destruction.

          Steve

          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "gaelman58"
          <gaelman58@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Friends: In alluding to Steiner, Laurency said among other
          things...
          >
          > "Steiner never grasped that what was meant was more and more
          refined
          > kinds of matter due to lesser and lesser density of primorial
          matter"
          >
          > "While studying Goethe's writings on the natural sciences, Steiner
          had
          > the brain-wave...." yup, "brain-wave"
          >
          > "The new brain knows nothing of what the old brain knew but must be
          > impregnated anew with mental molecules"...yup, "mental molecules"
          >
          > "In order to receive idea atoms the brain cells must be prepared by
          > mental vibrations"...yup, "idea atoms"
          >
          > "...Steiner would have recognized the atomic structure of the
          > superphysical worlds"
          >
          > Is this fellow a materialist?...apparently and then some...on the
          > other hand, maybe at this moment I am distorting the reception of
          > "brain waves" that I'm receiving and not properly configuring "idea
          > atoms" and "mental molecules"....Gaelman
          >
        • Steve Hale
          The thing about Dylan is that he never really organized his thought- streams into anything coherent. Although he did become a slow- train coming , which is
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 2, 2006
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            The thing about Dylan is that he never really organized his thought-
            streams into anything coherent. Although he did become a "slow-
            train coming", which is good and indicative of a slow and
            progressive uptake of spirituality in terms of Christianity.

            Now, Steiner once complained that if Schroer had had more confidence
            in his student, that he would have gone directly into the platonism
            and aristotelianism of Truth and Knowledge and POF, without the
            Goethe influences, mandated by Schroer. You see, Schroer had this
            theosophy bump on his head, which remained uncultivated all his
            life. And that is why he had these strokes of intuition, i.e.,
            Nero, and seeing his student Rudolf as the one who should edit
            Goethe's scientific writings. So, Steiner had to write this stuff
            for Schroer and then work in the Goethe archives at Weimar, while
            formulating and writing a book which was no less then the fourth
            form of German Idealism; and brought platonism and aristotelianism
            to a profound and integral conclusion.

            All the while, Karl Julius Schroer, history and literature professor
            at the technical university in Vienna, was sinking more and more
            into senility. And all because he refused to cultivate the
            theosophy bump on his head. It is said that his love of beauty,
            including Goethe's poetry and literature, caused him to refuse to
            descend into the physical world, just like Plato. And that is why
            Goethe's science fell on the shoulders of Rudolf Steiner.

            Steve

            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "isenhart7"
            <isenhart7@y...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "gaelman58"
            > <gaelman58@y...> wrote:
            >
            > > Is this fellow a materialist?...apparently and then some...on the
            > > other hand, maybe at this moment I am distorting the reception of
            > > "brain waves" that I'm receiving and not properly
            configuring "idea
            > > atoms" and "mental molecules"....Gaelman
            >
            > Dear Gaelman,
            >
            > The fellow is a professed non-theosophist esoteric student of
            > Pythagoras. If what he says is true then you are indeed distorting
            > reception and it'll be eons before we can expect you to tune to a
            > higher frequency.
            >
            > The good news is, and I'm not saying he's wrong, mind you but he's
            not
            > (by virtue of the fact that he is a self-proclaimed student of
            > Pythagoras)taking THE EVOLUTION OF CONSCIOUSNESS into account. The
            > potential for the evolution of consciousness of the individual
            such as
            > himself yes. The potential for humanity at large, no. Personally,
            I am
            > a student, as I know many others on this list are of Bob Dylan,
            and
            > thus I believe that the times they are a changin'.
          • holderlin66
            http://www.antroposofi.org/matherne/consciou.htm Steiner warns us, some forty years before Thomas Kuhn penned his tome about paradigms, The danger lies in
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 2, 2006
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              http://www.antroposofi.org/matherne/consciou.htm

              "Steiner warns us, some forty years before Thomas Kuhn penned his
              tome about paradigms, "The danger lies in the surrounding of people
              everywhere with atomistic and molecular pictures -- it is
              impossible, when surrounded by such pictures, to look at those of
              the free spirit and the stars; for the atomistic picture of the
              world is like a wall around man's soul -- the spiritual wall of a
              prison."

              Hence we hear noocleurr threat and the Race Card out of arsenal of
              Ahriman's arrows aimed at Anthros. And Anthros?

              Steve Hale wrote:

              Steiner has said that atoms are the illusions caused when a 'genie'
              comes into a man, making him a genius for theorizing such a thing
              and influencing the masses into believing it. In actuality, atoms
              and molecules, and ether bits and bytes, are the consequence of an
              astral body that stands somewhat outside its full ramification into
              the nervous system. A normal astral body permeates the nervous
              system all the way to its nerve endings; and this represents a
              normal, healthy human being. Atoms and molecules are the product
              of a materialism that goes back to the Academy of 666 AD.

              Thus, the Cosmic Intelligence born out of Jundi-Shapur, which sees
              and expounds atoms and molecules, meets the Cosmic Intelligence
              born out of Archangel Michael, which sees this all as a crock of
              shit, involving enslavement and destruction.

              Steve

              Yup, plain ole dumb ass brainwashing, an education made by
              materialism..Now lets look at this so called idea of materialism. It
              has been brought up that Arabism, Nominalism and today's Materialism
              arises from a conflict between Nominalism and Realism. But I have
              brought before this forum that TAOTL and TAO were the same battle
              ground as Nominalism and Realism. Naturally not any more considered
              than the Fall of the Spirits of Darkness and Steiner's aim to place
              the Johannes Bau in Munich before all hell broke loose. This is
              strikingly new information and add ins to what people cannot put
              together in history and psychological behavior. But, far, far far be
              it from us to consider Steiner and his data as stunning, dawning,
              awakening and accurate..we prefer our Sorathian materialism over
              Spiritual Science and we prefer our children to suffer it the way
              any martyr or lunatic must be treated who has 'strange ideas'.

              But these terms, Nominalism and Realism or TAO and TAOTL, and Spirit
              and Matter are key to the justified relationship of Ahriman's
              activities when working with TAO to form fit Spirit to number,
              measure, weight, cells, and chemical substances that which the
              Spirit introduces as individual, or group species components. Matter
              and the vessels that contain matter where TAOTL's domain. And TAO
              brought the mighty form forces from out of the Spiritual World and
              Ahriman welded those Science criteria into complimentary form fitted
              matter.

              We talk about Materialism, atoms, cells, nano technology but when we
              understand the issue of Materialism and Spirit, TAO and TAOTL,
              Nominalism and Realism, we look directly into how the forces were
              prepared for the two Jesus children via Zarathustra and Buddha.
              Thusly a vast core issue revolves around Realism. Realism that
              Thomas and Steiner were outlining, reveal the actual interior core
              transubstantciation where Christ, the SUN CORE of LOVE, devoured
              matter down to the skeleton. Do we find a skeleton in the Tomb? Who
              took the skeleton when the Resurrection happened? Who took the body,
              the bones? No bones. Steiner gives some strange explanation of how
              the Earth ate it.

              But Realism penetrates down to the actual overwhelming grasp of
              Christ eating the entire skeleton of the human being as the stunning
              micro form of the vast Zodiac. Steiner gives us how the Christ
              Spirit was pressed within the bones so forcefully in the final Jesus
              Being that he sweated blood and the interior of the bones had such a
              softening, and roiling of iron and etheric photosynthesis between
              green blood and red blood that to make it up to the hill of Golgotha
              requried that Christ support the skeletal system with His Mighty
              Spirit of Form, Elohim powers. A stunning example of Sun Light, it
              is sun light that lifts the plant upwards. That is jut one tiny
              chapter of the Realism enlivened in Spiritual Science.

              Materialism works from the side of matter and it is matter that is
              now rising up to oppose the Spirit. It is matter to clone bits and
              pieces, parts and Frankenstein fragments into different species
              crossings, without ethical or spiritual form transgenic reasoning
              that is written all over the natural world and the world of plant
              and insect life.

              It is now matter that holds the world in thrall when anyone whispers
              Depleted Uranium. Radioactivity, when we walk through the halls of
              universities we are over and over again presented with the John Nash
              syndrome of abstract science theories. We are over and over again
              reminded of the Atomic particle and wave theories. We encounter
              Einstein and Stephen Hawkings and nowhere in these abstract
              Arabistic and Nominalistic systems can we find anything to do with
              the Christ BEing or anything to do with the whole construct of the
              human being. And it is this false information we want crammed down
              our children's throats?

              Brainwashing, surrounded by everyone who has never brought these
              ideas of Spirit and Matter, TAO and TAOTL and Nominalism and REalism
              together ever as clearly as Rudolf Steiner has is buried for the
              sake of a better education of brainwashing and utter stupidity. But
              we excuse ourselves from having to define these new paradigms in our
              backyards. We excuse ourselves from having to understand the force
              of Sorathain Fallen Spirits of Darkness, Munich, Nazi Germany and
              the whole new schooling of Ahrimanic hosts in humanity...And why
              not? Why not excuse ourselves? It is justified that TAOTL revolts
              and rises up and starts to put the pieces and parts of matter into
              constructing Man in Ahriman's or Materialisms image. Steiner gave
              humanity a higher and clearer option.

              But where do we stand with such stunning contrasts? Steve Hale
              stands properly on this specific issue, but the rest of our excuses
              that we send our children off to school to grow accustomed to the
              majority of idiots in the world who can't teach matter and Spirit
              with any sort of clarity because they haven't looked beyond there
              noses and are trapped where? They are trapped in Creationism and
              Evolution? And where has Steiner placed us? Well beyond Creationism
              and Evolution into stunning facts, serious Realistic clarity around
              the Christ event as a merging of two streams...With realistic
              accounts of what was apparently witnessed and how these accounts
              bear up to all ancient initiation standards, are what truly scared
              the crap out of Caiaphas and it scares the crap out Israel, the
              Neocons and the dead thinking we use to let our children feel
              comfortable with what everyone else is learning in life. In other
              words it is more comfortable for us not to simply think these things
              through to see how stunningly reational and clear they are.

              And then Spiritual Science becomes is this stupid Cinderella even
              though we never let on to our children that indeed Spiritual Science
              has a stupid Cinderella quality to it. We merge our children into
              the dumb lane of how the majority thinks, but we thereby place
              before us a wall between the progressive unfolding of the
              accomplishments of Steiner at the dawn of the AGE OF LIGHT against
              the whole majority of humanity who never had the opportunity to meet
              with, tug on, chew on, or have the richness of Steiner as an equal
              player in cognitive educational insights. Nominalism and Spin still
              win the day and we give our children the opportunity, to filter all
              this horrific materialistic noise out and find a true course.

              For every human being should be able to find a true course shouldn't
              they? Can our children so easily find a true course when parents
              cannot lift up one cognitive idea and keep it alive in botany,
              zoology and physics? Parents like Cindy Sheehan find that they let
              their sons and daughters down. And what pressure does this put on
              the Waldorf System? The Political System? The educational system?
              The system of Karma and reincarnation?

              Well parents and adults have to do their share to keep cognition
              afloat. It is delusional to leave unexplained the reality of the
              Etheric World and the full insights given in Occult Science an
              OUtline by Steiner. Parents and adults are lazy, simpletons who tend
              to scartch their dim heads when the idea of Arabism and Sorathian
              thinking sweeps up the term Nominalism, Spin and a Neocon dangerous
              world for our children into another confrontation with the school of
              fascism, Orwell, The Matrix and the 2005/6 bridge from 1933...It is
              now 2006 and it is now a bridge to 1934...and what was on display in
              1933?

              You dumb asses? King KONG and the rise of materialism and man is
              descended from the apes. Stand our cognitive ground. Thanks Steve
              for the above!
            • holderlin66
              Clearly and wonderfully articulated. What Steve Hale brought so clearly is part of the tragedy and comedy of Hroswita von Gandersheim and part of the immense
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 2, 2006
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                Clearly and wonderfully articulated. What Steve Hale brought so
                clearly is part of the tragedy and comedy of Hroswita von
                Gandersheim and part of the immense task that Steiner was left to do
                solo under the name of Platonism and Aristoleanism. Hans Solo
                against the crutch and brotherly link to ancient Athens in Schiller
                and Goethe, Steiner had to evolve Anthroposophia from this utter
                disappointment.

                Steve Hale wrote:

                "The thing about Dylan is that he never really organized his thought-
                streams into anything coherent. Although he did become a "slow-
                train coming", which is good and indicative of a slow and
                progressive uptake of spirituality in terms of Christianity.

                Now, Steiner once complained that if Schroer had had more confidence
                in his student, that he would have gone directly into the platonism
                and aristotelianism of Truth and Knowledge and POF, without the
                Goethe influences, mandated by Schroer. You see, Schroer had this
                theosophy bump on his head, which remained uncultivated all his
                life. And that is why he had these strokes of intuition, i.e.,
                Nero, and seeing his student Rudolf as the one who should edit
                Goethe's scientific writings. So, Steiner had to write this stuff
                for Schroer and then work in the Goethe archives at Weimar, while
                formulating and writing a book which was no less then the fourth
                form of German Idealism; and brought platonism and aristotelianism
                to a profound and integral conclusion.

                All the while, Karl Julius Schroer, history and literature professor
                at the technical university in Vienna, was sinking more and more
                into senility. And all because he refused to cultivate the
                theosophy bump on his head. It is said that his love of beauty,
                including Goethe's poetry and literature, caused him to refuse to
                descend into the physical world, just like Plato. And that is why
                Goethe's science fell on the shoulders of Rudolf Steiner."

                Steve
              • isenhart7
                ... Dear Steve, Well, exactly! I love this-that you say, He never really organized his thought streams into anything coherent . Not very arisotelian of him,
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 2, 2006
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                  --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hale"
                  <sardisian01@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The thing about Dylan is that he never really organized his thought-
                  > streams into anything coherent. Although he did become a "slow-
                  > train coming", which is good and indicative of a slow and
                  > progressive uptake of spirituality in terms of Christianity.

                  Dear Steve,

                  Well, exactly! I love this-that you say, "He never really organized
                  his thought streams into anything coherent". Not very arisotelian of
                  him, I'd say. But that's the thing, as you know-anthroposophy is the
                  banner we can all work together under if we so choose.

                  Arisotelianism, platonism, and this(new for me)phythagorism are all
                  dead ends IMO for modern man. Now I always kind of considered
                  platonism the conceptual understanding you could get caught up in
                  consciousness soul development. Arisotelianism-a dead end in
                  intellectual soul development, which makes Ayn Rand the perfect model
                  for the White Witch of Narnia (Ain ran spelled backwards, probably
                  totally coincidental) but I digress. I never have considered or
                  thought about a specific systemic hindrance for the sentient soul but
                  here one is now. Like a slow train coming-if you wait long enough
                  perhaps it just presents itself. If I accept what Laurency has to say
                  then there's no need to think at all. He or she has it all figured
                  out.
                  >
                  > Now, Steiner once complained that if Schroer had had more
                  confidence
                  > in his student, that he would have gone directly into the platonism
                  > and aristotelianism of Truth and Knowledge and POF, without the
                  > Goethe influences, mandated by Schroer. You see, Schroer had this
                  > theosophy bump on his head, which remained uncultivated all his
                  > life. And that is why he had these strokes of intuition, i.e.,
                  > Nero, and seeing his student Rudolf as the one who should edit
                  > Goethe's scientific writings. So, Steiner had to write this stuff
                  > for Schroer and then work in the Goethe archives at Weimar, while
                  > formulating and writing a book which was no less then the fourth
                  > form of German Idealism; and brought platonism and aristotelianism
                  > to a profound and integral conclusion.

                  Are you saying, by "bump on his head" that he had a run in with
                  theosophy that he never recovered from? I think the Goethe influences
                  were essential, not for those who could connect with aristotelianism
                  or platonism (the vast majority) but for those relatively few who
                  could not. And I would venture to say that this work-this editing-
                  this familiarization that Steiner had to go through with Goethe was a
                  significant factor in Steiner's ability to bring resolution to
                  polarities-and as you say to bring "platonism and aristotelianism to
                  a profound and integral conclusion".
                  >
                  > All the while, Karl Julius Schroer, history and literature
                  professor
                  > at the technical university in Vienna, was sinking more and more
                  > into senility. And all because he refused to cultivate the
                  > theosophy bump on his head. It is said that his love of beauty,
                  > including Goethe's poetry and literature, caused him to refuse to
                  > descend into the physical world, just like Plato. And that is why
                  > Goethe's science fell on the shoulders of Rudolf Steiner.


                  I don't know Steve, are you saying that Schroer could have connected
                  to theosophy? I always thought it remarkable that he could even show
                  up at all-you know descend into a physical body without being
                  autistic or senile from the start. So I would argue that it was his
                  ever present need to stay grounded that caused Goethe's science to
                  pass to Steiner.-Val
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