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  • dottie zold
    YOu can disagree with Southerncross Review but you cross the boundaries of decency when you put criminal in front of it. I think you owe an apology.
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 27, 2005
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      YOu can disagree with Southerncross Review but you cross the
      boundaries of decency when you put criminal in front of it. I think
      you owe an apology.


      > In response to Southern Cross Review's
      > recent release (celebrating Harold Pinhead
      > in their Christmas SEdition), I quote Tom
      > Wolfe's recent observation about persons
      > like Noam Chomsky and Harold Pinter:
      >
      > "...[there is a ] difference between an
      > intellectual and a person of intellectual
      > achievement. An intellectual is a person
      > knowledgeable in one field who speaks out
      > only in others...(and) as Marshall McLuhan
      > once put it, "Moral indignation is a standard
      > strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity."
      >
      > Hence Harold Pinter, Idiot Savant.
      >
      > . . . . . . . . . . .
      >
      > I am moved to wonder by the SCR/Christmas Sedition.
      >
      > It leads me to ask --
      >
      > At what point did the hard Left infest Anthroposophy
      > to the degree that they have breached the point that
      > their sympathies to all extents and purposes have
      > become morally criminal?
      >
      > I choose my words carefully.
      >
      > That point was reached when they began to feel confident
      > enough to start celebrating Holocaust deniers (Chomsky)
      > and raging wackos like Harold Pinter.
      >
      > In the moral sense it is epistemologically criminal to
      > feel that persons like a Chomsky or a Harold Pinter are
      > heroes -- as the Fifth Columnists in Anthroposophy do.
      >
      > . . . . . . . . . . .
      >
      > Here is a selection from idiot Savant Harold Pinter:
      >
      > I believe his [Milosevic's] arrest and detention by
      > the international criminal tribunal is unconstitutional,
      > and goes against Yugoslav and international law.
      > They have no right to try him.
      > -- Pinter on the arrest of Slobodan Miloševiæ.
      > Quoted in The Guardian, July 26, 2001.
      >
      > [PINTER WOULD SURELY SUPPORT THE ARREST AND
      > TRIAL OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES...]
      >
      > The U.S. is really beyond reason now…
      > There is only one comparison: Nazi Germany.
      > -- Speech at the National Theatre in London. June 10, 2003.
      >
      > AND NOW, THE CRIMINALLY IMMORAL
      > PIECE DE RESISTANCE FROM HAROLD PINTER --
      >
      > [In Cuba] there has not been a single case
      > of disappearance, torture or extra-judicial
      > execution since 1959…
      > -- Appeal signed by Pinter in The Guardian, March 26, 2005.
      >
      > . . . . . . . . . . .
      >
      > Only those who are morally ill in their souls can
      > assert such untruths. And those that support men
      > like Pinter who say such things come near themselves
      > to partaking of the same moral illness.
      >
      > Or maybe that line has been already breached.
      >
    • dottie zold
      Hey Friends, I just thought to share a little about the Beguines in case there are any interested in learning more about these smart minded women of the 12th
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 27, 2005
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        Hey Friends,

        I just thought to share a little about the Beguines in
        case there are any interested in learning more about
        these smart minded women of the 12th and 13th. It's
        from a review of a book I am trying to locate.

        http://www.h-france.net/vol2reviews/armstrong.html


        "Chapter five wrestles with the issue of religious
        orthodoxy and ecclesiastical authority. Although the
        beguine movement survived for several centuries,
        Simons tries to explain why it was persecuted during
        the fourteenth century. He turns to the distinctive
        character of beguine spirituality for answers,
        suggesting that beguines' self-perception as spiritual
        educators was one reason. The thirteenth-century
        church considered itself the official interpreter of
        religious doctrine. In consequence, the clergy were
        often suspicious of wandering lay preachers such as
        the Waldensians and of any lay reading and
        interpretation of religious texts. The position of
        women in relationship to spiritual authority was even
        more of a concern to ecclesiastical authorities
        because Paul of Tarsus specifically forbade women to
        preach. Church authorities were worried about beguines
        precisely because these women were willing to explain
        Christian teachings to others.

        The thirteenth-century Paris master Peter the Chanter
        believed that some women could edify others on
        religious matters, but his view was hardly
        representative of the clerical establishment. The
        church believed that only men could receive the
        intellectual and spiritual training necessary for such
        an important office as preaching. With a few
        exceptions, beguines did not preach in public, though
        some did exhort other beguines on matters of faith
        within their own communities. Even such private
        exhortations, however, made church authorities nervous
        in the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries. It did not
        help the beguines' cause that they seemed to be
        claiming a distinctly female kind of spiritual
        knowledge--knowledge which they held was no less valid
        than that of the clergy for all that it was intuitive,
        rather than university-trained, in nature. A telling
        sign that the beguines believed in their apostolic
        role was their choice of Mary Magdalen as their patron
        saint. According to the Golden Legend, Mary Magdalen
        proselytized in Gaul.

        Simons shows how this concern about religious
        orthodoxy resulted in the trial of Marguerite Porète
        in 1308 for her contemplative work The Mirror of
        Christian Souls and underlay the formal condemnation
        of the movement at the Council of Vienne (1311-1312).
        He quotes the decree Cum de quibusdam mulieribus,
        which specifically attacked beguine discussion of
        religious matters. Certain beguines, the decree
        states, "discussed and preached about the trinity and
        divine essence and expressed opinions contrary to the
        Catholic faith as if driven by a particular insanity"
        (p. 133). According to Simons, this condemnation
        almost ended the beguine movement in the fourteenth
        century. Ecclesiastical authorities hounded beguine
        communities and forced many to close. Members of those
        that managed to survive often found their mobility and
        intellectual life seriously scrutinized and
        controlled. "

        d





        __________________________________
        Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
        http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
      • dottie zold
        Looking to move further on the Raphael Sophia understanding, I found this in a book just borrowed from the library: The Spiritual Hierarchies and their
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 27, 2005
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          Looking to move further on the Raphael Sophia
          understanding, I found this in a book just borrowed
          from the library: 'The Spiritual Hierarchies and their
          reflection in the physical world'

          I want to share about Mercury and Venus as this is
          where my studies are right now.

          Chapter 7:

          "(...) Then something remarkable happenedd. Lemurian
          human beings were helpless; they could not manage
          their existence on earth; they did not know what they
          were here for. Heavenly beings, the inhabitants of
          Venus, who had an affinity with the physical body, now
          descended to those who dwelt on earth and permeated
          their soul substance. So, we have among the mass of
          Lemurian humanity a few who went about in quite a
          remarkable manner for they had different physical
          bodies from the others.

          " Thus, the Spirits of Personality came down to Earth
          as Venus spirits in the ancient Lemurian times. The
          Venus messengers who had taken on human countenance on
          earth - countenances as they were then - were of
          specific significance for the whole of the universe.
          Cosmically, they reached up to Venus and their deeds
          were able to lead humanity from one place to another
          because they had insight into the connections known to
          those acquainted not only with the earth itself but
          with its cosmic surroundings.

          The development of humanity progressed. The necessity
          arose for Archangels, Mercury Spirits, to intervene in
          evolution. It was now their turn to ensoul and
          permeate what was to be found below on earth. This
          occurred mainly during the Atlantean period. Spiritual
          beings from Mercury, Archangels, descended who were
          able to ensoul and permeate the physical and etheric
          bodies of certain human beings. So we also find among
          the Atlantean human beings who could not outwardly be
          distinguished appreciably from others but who were
          ensouled by an archangel in their physical bodies.
          Now, if you recall that it was said yesterday that
          archangels have the task of guiding whole peoples, you
          will understand that a person who carries an
          archangelic being in himself was simply able to impart
          to a whole Atlantean tribe the appropriate laws
          inscribed in the heavenly world.

          The great leaders of ancient Lemurian times, when it
          was necessary to act more generally, were ensouled by
          spirits from Venus. Those whose task it was to direct
          groups of people were ensouled by archangels. The
          priest-kings of Altantean times were really a maya:
          they were not what they outwardly appeared to be. An
          archangel dwelt in their physical and etheric body and
          this was the actual acting agent. Going back to
          Atlantean times, we find the hidden centers of these
          leaders of humanity. They worked from hidden places
          from which they investigated the mysteries of the
          universe.

          (...) It is important to know that in Atlantean times
          there were human beings who bore an archangel in their
          physical and etheric body. Clairvoyantly, one would
          have seen a physical human being but behind him a
          gigantic form rising far above, losing itself in
          indefinite regions - the figure of the inspiriting
          archangel. Such a personality had a two fold nature.
          At the death of such a being, the physical body was
          destroyed, according to Atlantean practice. The
          physical body, which had been ensouled by the
          archangel, dissolved, but the etheric body did not
          dissolve. There are demands of spiritual econonmy that
          run counter to the general truths of spiritual
          science. We usually say, and in general it is correct,
          that when a man dies, he lays aside his physical body
          and after a certain time also his ether body; apart
          from an extract remains, it dissolves. This, however,
          is only generally the case. There is an enormous
          difference between the etheric body of an initiate of
          the Atlantean Oracles, which was permeated by an
          archangel, and an ordinary one. Such a valuable
          etheric body could not be lost; it was preserved in
          the spiritual world. The seven most important etheric
          bodies of the great founders of the Oracles were
          preserved by the mightiest leader of the Atlantean
          Oracles. These etheric bodies had been woven through
          by archangelic beings who at death had naturally
          returned to higher worlds. Something was preserved
          (not in boxes, of course, but according to spiritual
          laws).

          The Atlantean Initiate of the Sun Oracle is none other
          than Manu, who led the remainder of the Atlantean
          population over to Asia in order to establish the
          post-Atlantean cultures there. He took a handful of
          people with him and led them across Asia. He trained
          people through generations and when the suitable seven
          had been bred and educated sufficiently, he wove into
          their etheric bodies the seven etheric bodies that had
          been preserved and permeated by archangels on ancient
          Atlantis. The seven, sent down by the mighty leader to
          found the first post-Atlantean culture, were the Holy
          Rishis of ancient India. They bore within their
          sheaths the etheric bodies of the great Atlantean
          leaders, who, in turn, had received them from the
          archangelic beings. Thus, past, present, and future
          came together.

          ...() Even in post-Atlantean times, mankind had not
          advanced sufficiently to dispense with ensoulment from
          above. We have seen that in Lemurian times it took
          place through the fact that a Spirit of Personality
          permeated the physical body; in the Atlantean period
          the physical and etheric bodies were ensouled by
          archangelic, beings in post Atlantean times the great
          leaders of humanity were ensouled by angelic beings
          who had descended into their physical, etheric and
          astral bodies. The mighty leaders of the first post
          Atlantean periods did not only have human physical,
          etheric an astral bodies; each leader was permeated by
          an angel. This enable them to look back into their
          former incarnations. The ordinary person is not able
          to do so because he has not yet developed his Manas;
          he must first become an angel.

          Although the course of world development may be
          described as a process of absolute regularity, things
          are constantly overlapping.What is described as a
          process of perfect regularity does not work out in
          fact with perfection. In the main what has been said
          is valid. In Lemurian times, Spirits of Personality
          spoke through human beings; in Atlantean times,through
          archangels,, and through angels in post Atlantean
          periods. But during post Atlantean periods, we still
          find human beings permeated in their physical bodies
          by Spirits of Personality and, although they lived in
          post Atlantean times, there were in the same positions
          in Lemurian times through whom the Spirits of
          Personality were speaking.

          Mankind needed such leaders and so in post-Atlantean
          times we encounter human beings who, though they bore
          the outer characteristics of the people; to whom they
          belonged, harbored a Spirit of Personality in
          themselves. Furthermore, there were men in post
          Atlantean periods who bore an archangel, a Mercury
          spirit, in their physical and etheric bodies. Finally,
          there was s third catagory of human beings; men who
          were inspired in their physical, etheric and astral
          bodies by angelic beings. They were, in fact, men
          through whom angels speak.

          In accordance with traditions of the East, such human
          beings received particular names. Thus, one who
          outwardly appeared like a human being of the post
          Atlantean period but bore a Spirit of Personality in
          his nature and was ensouled right down to his physical
          body by such a spirit, is known in teachings of the
          Orient as a Dhyani-Buddha. Dhyani-Buddha is a generic
          name for such individualities. Beings ensouled in
          their physical, etheric and astral bodies, are called
          human Buddhas. Thus we have three degrees: the
          Dhyani-Buddhas, the Bodhisattvas and the human
          Buddhas. That is the true teaching relating to the
          various degrees of Buddhahood. We have to consider
          this connection with the manner in which the
          hierarchies manifest themselves and fulfill their
          appointed tasks.

          (...) We gaze here into the profound complexities of
          the human being, and that is of capitol importance.
          Many individuals of former ages can only be understood
          when we realize that they represent focal points for a
          number of beings who work and express themselves
          through man. For, indeed, many a period does not
          possess a sufficient number of great men able to be
          inspired by the spirits who have to be active. It is,
          therefore, often the case that various beings of the
          Higher Hierarchies have to ensoul one single
          personality on earth. Sometimes we have not only the
          inhabitants of Mercury, but of Mercury and Venus
          combined, who speaks to us through one person.

          You see, such concepts leads us to an understanding of
          human evolution. We learn to recognize the true nature
          of personalities who, when we meet them in their
          physical form, merely represent a maya."

          d





          __________________________________
          Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
          http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
        • Frank Smith
          ... Where Paul forbade women to preach is in Timothy - and is a Church fabrication. Frank Frank Thomas Smith http://SouthernCrossReview.org
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 27, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            --- dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

            > Hey Friends,
            >
            > I just thought to share a little about the Beguines
            > in
            > case there are any interested in learning more about
            > these smart minded women of the 12th and 13th. It's
            > from a review of a book I am trying to locate.
            >
            > http://www.h-france.net/vol2reviews/armstrong.html
            >
            >
            > "Chapter five wrestles with the issue of religious
            > orthodoxy and ecclesiastical authority. Although the
            > beguine movement survived for several centuries,
            > Simons tries to explain why it was persecuted during
            > the fourteenth century. He turns to the distinctive
            > character of beguine spirituality for answers,
            > suggesting that beguines' self-perception as
            > spiritual
            > educators was one reason. The thirteenth-century
            > church considered itself the official interpreter of
            > religious doctrine. In consequence, the clergy were
            > often suspicious of wandering lay preachers such as
            > the Waldensians and of any lay reading and
            > interpretation of religious texts. The position of
            > women in relationship to spiritual authority was
            > even
            > more of a concern to ecclesiastical authorities
            > because Paul of Tarsus specifically forbade women to
            > preach. Church authorities were worried about
            > beguines
            > precisely because these women were willing to
            > explain
            > Christian teachings to others.

            Where Paul forbade women to preach is in Timothy - and
            is a Church fabrication.
            Frank


            Frank Thomas Smith
            http://SouthernCrossReview.org



            __________________________________________
            Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.
            Just $16.99/mo. or less.
            dsl.yahoo.com
          • adm_anthroposophia
            wow :-D Thanks D for typing this out. The Dhyani-Buddha. Raphael Novalis next. X
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 28, 2005
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              wow :-D

              Thanks D for typing this out.

              The Dhyani-Buddha. Raphael Novalis'next.

              X



              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
              <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Looking to move further on the Raphael Sophia
              > understanding, I found this in a book just borrowed
              > from the library: 'The Spiritual Hierarchies and their
              > reflection in the physical world'
              >
              > I want to share about Mercury and Venus as this is
              > where my studies are right now.
              >
              > Chapter 7:
              >
              > "(...) Then something remarkable happenedd. Lemurian
              > human beings were helpless; they could not manage
              > their existence on earth; they did not know what they
              > were here for. Heavenly beings, the inhabitants of
              > Venus, who had an affinity with the physical body, now
              > descended to those who dwelt on earth and permeated
              > their soul substance. So, we have among the mass of
              > Lemurian humanity a few who went about in quite a
              > remarkable manner for they had different physical
              > bodies from the others.
              >
              > " Thus, the Spirits of Personality came down to Earth
              > as Venus spirits in the ancient Lemurian times. The
              > Venus messengers who had taken on human countenance on
              > earth - countenances as they were then - were of
              > specific significance for the whole of the universe.
              > Cosmically, they reached up to Venus and their deeds
              > were able to lead humanity from one place to another
              > because they had insight into the connections known to
              > those acquainted not only with the earth itself but
              > with its cosmic surroundings.
              >
              > The development of humanity progressed. The necessity
              > arose for Archangels, Mercury Spirits, to intervene in
              > evolution. It was now their turn to ensoul and
              > permeate what was to be found below on earth. This
              > occurred mainly during the Atlantean period. Spiritual
              > beings from Mercury, Archangels, descended who were
              > able to ensoul and permeate the physical and etheric
              > bodies of certain human beings. So we also find among
              > the Atlantean human beings who could not outwardly be
              > distinguished appreciably from others but who were
              > ensouled by an archangel in their physical bodies.
              > Now, if you recall that it was said yesterday that
              > archangels have the task of guiding whole peoples, you
              > will understand that a person who carries an
              > archangelic being in himself was simply able to impart
              > to a whole Atlantean tribe the appropriate laws
              > inscribed in the heavenly world.
              >
              > The great leaders of ancient Lemurian times, when it
              > was necessary to act more generally, were ensouled by
              > spirits from Venus. Those whose task it was to direct
              > groups of people were ensouled by archangels. The
              > priest-kings of Altantean times were really a maya:
              > they were not what they outwardly appeared to be. An
              > archangel dwelt in their physical and etheric body and
              > this was the actual acting agent. Going back to
              > Atlantean times, we find the hidden centers of these
              > leaders of humanity. They worked from hidden places
              > from which they investigated the mysteries of the
              > universe.
              >
              > (...) It is important to know that in Atlantean times
              > there were human beings who bore an archangel in their
              > physical and etheric body. Clairvoyantly, one would
              > have seen a physical human being but behind him a
              > gigantic form rising far above, losing itself in
              > indefinite regions - the figure of the inspiriting
              > archangel. Such a personality had a two fold nature.
              > At the death of such a being, the physical body was
              > destroyed, according to Atlantean practice. The
              > physical body, which had been ensouled by the
              > archangel, dissolved, but the etheric body did not
              > dissolve. There are demands of spiritual econonmy that
              > run counter to the general truths of spiritual
              > science. We usually say, and in general it is correct,
              > that when a man dies, he lays aside his physical body
              > and after a certain time also his ether body; apart
              > from an extract remains, it dissolves. This, however,
              > is only generally the case. There is an enormous
              > difference between the etheric body of an initiate of
              > the Atlantean Oracles, which was permeated by an
              > archangel, and an ordinary one. Such a valuable
              > etheric body could not be lost; it was preserved in
              > the spiritual world. The seven most important etheric
              > bodies of the great founders of the Oracles were
              > preserved by the mightiest leader of the Atlantean
              > Oracles. These etheric bodies had been woven through
              > by archangelic beings who at death had naturally
              > returned to higher worlds. Something was preserved
              > (not in boxes, of course, but according to spiritual
              > laws).
              >
              > The Atlantean Initiate of the Sun Oracle is none other
              > than Manu, who led the remainder of the Atlantean
              > population over to Asia in order to establish the
              > post-Atlantean cultures there. He took a handful of
              > people with him and led them across Asia. He trained
              > people through generations and when the suitable seven
              > had been bred and educated sufficiently, he wove into
              > their etheric bodies the seven etheric bodies that had
              > been preserved and permeated by archangels on ancient
              > Atlantis. The seven, sent down by the mighty leader to
              > found the first post-Atlantean culture, were the Holy
              > Rishis of ancient India. They bore within their
              > sheaths the etheric bodies of the great Atlantean
              > leaders, who, in turn, had received them from the
              > archangelic beings. Thus, past, present, and future
              > came together.
              >
              > ...() Even in post-Atlantean times, mankind had not
              > advanced sufficiently to dispense with ensoulment from
              > above. We have seen that in Lemurian times it took
              > place through the fact that a Spirit of Personality
              > permeated the physical body; in the Atlantean period
              > the physical and etheric bodies were ensouled by
              > archangelic, beings in post Atlantean times the great
              > leaders of humanity were ensouled by angelic beings
              > who had descended into their physical, etheric and
              > astral bodies. The mighty leaders of the first post
              > Atlantean periods did not only have human physical,
              > etheric an astral bodies; each leader was permeated by
              > an angel. This enable them to look back into their
              > former incarnations. The ordinary person is not able
              > to do so because he has not yet developed his Manas;
              > he must first become an angel.
              >
              > Although the course of world development may be
              > described as a process of absolute regularity, things
              > are constantly overlapping.What is described as a
              > process of perfect regularity does not work out in
              > fact with perfection. In the main what has been said
              > is valid. In Lemurian times, Spirits of Personality
              > spoke through human beings; in Atlantean times,through
              > archangels,, and through angels in post Atlantean
              > periods. But during post Atlantean periods, we still
              > find human beings permeated in their physical bodies
              > by Spirits of Personality and, although they lived in
              > post Atlantean times, there were in the same positions
              > in Lemurian times through whom the Spirits of
              > Personality were speaking.
              >
              > Mankind needed such leaders and so in post-Atlantean
              > times we encounter human beings who, though they bore
              > the outer characteristics of the people; to whom they
              > belonged, harbored a Spirit of Personality in
              > themselves. Furthermore, there were men in post
              > Atlantean periods who bore an archangel, a Mercury
              > spirit, in their physical and etheric bodies. Finally,
              > there was s third catagory of human beings; men who
              > were inspired in their physical, etheric and astral
              > bodies by angelic beings. They were, in fact, men
              > through whom angels speak.
              >
              > In accordance with traditions of the East, such human
              > beings received particular names. Thus, one who
              > outwardly appeared like a human being of the post
              > Atlantean period but bore a Spirit of Personality in
              > his nature and was ensouled right down to his physical
              > body by such a spirit, is known in teachings of the
              > Orient as a Dhyani-Buddha. Dhyani-Buddha is a generic
              > name for such individualities. Beings ensouled in
              > their physical, etheric and astral bodies, are called
              > human Buddhas. Thus we have three degrees: the
              > Dhyani-Buddhas, the Bodhisattvas and the human
              > Buddhas. That is the true teaching relating to the
              > various degrees of Buddhahood. We have to consider
              > this connection with the manner in which the
              > hierarchies manifest themselves and fulfill their
              > appointed tasks.
              >
              > (...) We gaze here into the profound complexities of
              > the human being, and that is of capitol importance.
              > Many individuals of former ages can only be understood
              > when we realize that they represent focal points for a
              > number of beings who work and express themselves
              > through man. For, indeed, many a period does not
              > possess a sufficient number of great men able to be
              > inspired by the spirits who have to be active. It is,
              > therefore, often the case that various beings of the
              > Higher Hierarchies have to ensoul one single
              > personality on earth. Sometimes we have not only the
              > inhabitants of Mercury, but of Mercury and Venus
              > combined, who speaks to us through one person.
              >
              > You see, such concepts leads us to an understanding of
              > human evolution. We learn to recognize the true nature
              > of personalities who, when we meet them in their
              > physical form, merely represent a maya."
              >
              > d
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________
              > Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
              > http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
              >
            • adm_anthroposophia
              http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/SpirHier/SpiHie_index.html
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 28, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/SpirHier/SpiHie_index.html



                --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
                <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
                >
                > Looking to move further on the Raphael Sophia
                > understanding, I found this in a book just borrowed
                > from the library: 'The Spiritual Hierarchies and their
                > reflection in the physical world'
                >
                > I want to share about Mercury and Venus as this is
                > where my studies are right now.
                >
                > Chapter 7:
                >
                > "(...) Then something remarkable happenedd. Lemurian
                > human beings were helpless; they could not manage
                > their existence on earth; they did not know what they
                > were here for. Heavenly beings, the inhabitants of
                > Venus, who had an affinity with the physical body, now
                > descended to those who dwelt on earth and permeated
                > their soul substance. So, we have among the mass of
                > Lemurian humanity a few who went about in quite a
                > remarkable manner for they had different physical
                > bodies from the others.
                >
                > " Thus, the Spirits of Personality came down to Earth
                > as Venus spirits in the ancient Lemurian times. The
                > Venus messengers who had taken on human countenance on
                > earth - countenances as they were then - were of
                > specific significance for the whole of the universe.
                > Cosmically, they reached up to Venus and their deeds
                > were able to lead humanity from one place to another
                > because they had insight into the connections known to
                > those acquainted not only with the earth itself but
                > with its cosmic surroundings.
                >
                > The development of humanity progressed. The necessity
                > arose for Archangels, Mercury Spirits, to intervene in
                > evolution. It was now their turn to ensoul and
                > permeate what was to be found below on earth. This
                > occurred mainly during the Atlantean period. Spiritual
                > beings from Mercury, Archangels, descended who were
                > able to ensoul and permeate the physical and etheric
                > bodies of certain human beings. So we also find among
                > the Atlantean human beings who could not outwardly be
                > distinguished appreciably from others but who were
                > ensouled by an archangel in their physical bodies.
                > Now, if you recall that it was said yesterday that
                > archangels have the task of guiding whole peoples, you
                > will understand that a person who carries an
                > archangelic being in himself was simply able to impart
                > to a whole Atlantean tribe the appropriate laws
                > inscribed in the heavenly world.
                >
                > The great leaders of ancient Lemurian times, when it
                > was necessary to act more generally, were ensouled by
                > spirits from Venus. Those whose task it was to direct
                > groups of people were ensouled by archangels. The
                > priest-kings of Altantean times were really a maya:
                > they were not what they outwardly appeared to be. An
                > archangel dwelt in their physical and etheric body and
                > this was the actual acting agent. Going back to
                > Atlantean times, we find the hidden centers of these
                > leaders of humanity. They worked from hidden places
                > from which they investigated the mysteries of the
                > universe.
                >
                > (...) It is important to know that in Atlantean times
                > there were human beings who bore an archangel in their
                > physical and etheric body. Clairvoyantly, one would
                > have seen a physical human being but behind him a
                > gigantic form rising far above, losing itself in
                > indefinite regions - the figure of the inspiriting
                > archangel. Such a personality had a two fold nature.
                > At the death of such a being, the physical body was
                > destroyed, according to Atlantean practice. The
                > physical body, which had been ensouled by the
                > archangel, dissolved, but the etheric body did not
                > dissolve. There are demands of spiritual econonmy that
                > run counter to the general truths of spiritual
                > science. We usually say, and in general it is correct,
                > that when a man dies, he lays aside his physical body
                > and after a certain time also his ether body; apart
                > from an extract remains, it dissolves. This, however,
                > is only generally the case. There is an enormous
                > difference between the etheric body of an initiate of
                > the Atlantean Oracles, which was permeated by an
                > archangel, and an ordinary one. Such a valuable
                > etheric body could not be lost; it was preserved in
                > the spiritual world. The seven most important etheric
                > bodies of the great founders of the Oracles were
                > preserved by the mightiest leader of the Atlantean
                > Oracles. These etheric bodies had been woven through
                > by archangelic beings who at death had naturally
                > returned to higher worlds. Something was preserved
                > (not in boxes, of course, but according to spiritual
                > laws).
                >
                > The Atlantean Initiate of the Sun Oracle is none other
                > than Manu, who led the remainder of the Atlantean
                > population over to Asia in order to establish the
                > post-Atlantean cultures there. He took a handful of
                > people with him and led them across Asia. He trained
                > people through generations and when the suitable seven
                > had been bred and educated sufficiently, he wove into
                > their etheric bodies the seven etheric bodies that had
                > been preserved and permeated by archangels on ancient
                > Atlantis. The seven, sent down by the mighty leader to
                > found the first post-Atlantean culture, were the Holy
                > Rishis of ancient India. They bore within their
                > sheaths the etheric bodies of the great Atlantean
                > leaders, who, in turn, had received them from the
                > archangelic beings. Thus, past, present, and future
                > came together.
                >
                > ...() Even in post-Atlantean times, mankind had not
                > advanced sufficiently to dispense with ensoulment from
                > above. We have seen that in Lemurian times it took
                > place through the fact that a Spirit of Personality
                > permeated the physical body; in the Atlantean period
                > the physical and etheric bodies were ensouled by
                > archangelic, beings in post Atlantean times the great
                > leaders of humanity were ensouled by angelic beings
                > who had descended into their physical, etheric and
                > astral bodies. The mighty leaders of the first post
                > Atlantean periods did not only have human physical,
                > etheric an astral bodies; each leader was permeated by
                > an angel. This enable them to look back into their
                > former incarnations. The ordinary person is not able
                > to do so because he has not yet developed his Manas;
                > he must first become an angel.
                >
                > Although the course of world development may be
                > described as a process of absolute regularity, things
                > are constantly overlapping.What is described as a
                > process of perfect regularity does not work out in
                > fact with perfection. In the main what has been said
                > is valid. In Lemurian times, Spirits of Personality
                > spoke through human beings; in Atlantean times,through
                > archangels,, and through angels in post Atlantean
                > periods. But during post Atlantean periods, we still
                > find human beings permeated in their physical bodies
                > by Spirits of Personality and, although they lived in
                > post Atlantean times, there were in the same positions
                > in Lemurian times through whom the Spirits of
                > Personality were speaking.
                >
                > Mankind needed such leaders and so in post-Atlantean
                > times we encounter human beings who, though they bore
                > the outer characteristics of the people; to whom they
                > belonged, harbored a Spirit of Personality in
                > themselves. Furthermore, there were men in post
                > Atlantean periods who bore an archangel, a Mercury
                > spirit, in their physical and etheric bodies. Finally,
                > there was s third catagory of human beings; men who
                > were inspired in their physical, etheric and astral
                > bodies by angelic beings. They were, in fact, men
                > through whom angels speak.
                >
                > In accordance with traditions of the East, such human
                > beings received particular names. Thus, one who
                > outwardly appeared like a human being of the post
                > Atlantean period but bore a Spirit of Personality in
                > his nature and was ensouled right down to his physical
                > body by such a spirit, is known in teachings of the
                > Orient as a Dhyani-Buddha. Dhyani-Buddha is a generic
                > name for such individualities. Beings ensouled in
                > their physical, etheric and astral bodies, are called
                > human Buddhas. Thus we have three degrees: the
                > Dhyani-Buddhas, the Bodhisattvas and the human
                > Buddhas. That is the true teaching relating to the
                > various degrees of Buddhahood. We have to consider
                > this connection with the manner in which the
                > hierarchies manifest themselves and fulfill their
                > appointed tasks.
                >
                > (...) We gaze here into the profound complexities of
                > the human being, and that is of capitol importance.
                > Many individuals of former ages can only be understood
                > when we realize that they represent focal points for a
                > number of beings who work and express themselves
                > through man. For, indeed, many a period does not
                > possess a sufficient number of great men able to be
                > inspired by the spirits who have to be active. It is,
                > therefore, often the case that various beings of the
                > Higher Hierarchies have to ensoul one single
                > personality on earth. Sometimes we have not only the
                > inhabitants of Mercury, but of Mercury and Venus
                > combined, who speaks to us through one person.
                >
                > You see, such concepts leads us to an understanding of
                > human evolution. We learn to recognize the true nature
                > of personalities who, when we meet them in their
                > physical form, merely represent a maya."
                >
                > d
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > __________________________________
                > Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
                > http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
                >
              • dottie zold
                Hey Xandor, I m thinking I best be starting to look over there before I type these things out. But then again I think by me typing these things out something
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 28, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hey Xandor,

                  I'm thinking I best be starting to look over there
                  before I type these things out. But then again I think
                  by me typing these things out something is working in
                  me as I read these things for the second and third
                  time. I am glad though that y'all can now read the
                  whole lecture. It is pretty amazing. Lemuria is where
                  it's at I'll tell you. :)

                  d

                  >
                  http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/SpirHier/SpiHie_index.html
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com,
                  > dottie zold
                  > <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Looking to move further on the Raphael Sophia
                  > > understanding, I found this in a book just
                  > borrowed
                  > > from the library: 'The Spiritual Hierarchies and
                  > their
                  > > reflection in the physical world'
                  > >
                  > > I want to share about Mercury and Venus as this is
                  > > where my studies are right now.
                  > >
                  > > Chapter 7:
                  > >
                  > > "(...) Then something remarkable happenedd.
                  > Lemurian
                  > > human beings were helpless; they could not manage
                  > > their existence on earth; they did not know what
                  > they
                  > > were here for. Heavenly beings, the inhabitants of
                  > > Venus, who had an affinity with the physical body,
                  > now
                  > > descended to those who dwelt on earth and
                  > permeated
                  > > their soul substance. So, we have among the mass
                  > of
                  > > Lemurian humanity a few who went about in quite a
                  > > remarkable manner for they had different physical
                  > > bodies from the others.
                  > >
                  > > " Thus, the Spirits of Personality came down to
                  > Earth
                  > > as Venus spirits in the ancient Lemurian times.
                  > The
                  > > Venus messengers who had taken on human
                  > countenance on
                  > > earth - countenances as they were then - were of
                  > > specific significance for the whole of the
                  > universe.
                  > > Cosmically, they reached up to Venus and their
                  > deeds
                  > > were able to lead humanity from one place to
                  > another
                  > > because they had insight into the connections
                  > known to
                  > > those acquainted not only with the earth itself
                  > but
                  > > with its cosmic surroundings.
                  > >
                  > > The development of humanity progressed. The
                  > necessity
                  > > arose for Archangels, Mercury Spirits, to
                  > intervene in
                  > > evolution. It was now their turn to ensoul and
                  > > permeate what was to be found below on earth. This
                  > > occurred mainly during the Atlantean period.
                  > Spiritual
                  > > beings from Mercury, Archangels, descended who
                  > were
                  > > able to ensoul and permeate the physical and
                  > etheric
                  > > bodies of certain human beings. So we also find
                  > among
                  > > the Atlantean human beings who could not outwardly
                  > be
                  > > distinguished appreciably from others but who were
                  > > ensouled by an archangel in their physical bodies.
                  > > Now, if you recall that it was said yesterday
                  > that
                  > > archangels have the task of guiding whole peoples,
                  > you
                  > > will understand that a person who carries an
                  > > archangelic being in himself was simply able to
                  > impart
                  > > to a whole Atlantean tribe the appropriate laws
                  > > inscribed in the heavenly world.
                  > >
                  > > The great leaders of ancient Lemurian times, when
                  > it
                  > > was necessary to act more generally, were ensouled
                  > by
                  > > spirits from Venus. Those whose task it was to
                  > direct
                  > > groups of people were ensouled by archangels. The
                  > > priest-kings of Altantean times were really a
                  > maya:
                  > > they were not what they outwardly appeared to be.
                  > An
                  > > archangel dwelt in their physical and etheric body
                  > and
                  > > this was the actual acting agent. Going back to
                  > > Atlantean times, we find the hidden centers of
                  > these
                  > > leaders of humanity. They worked from hidden
                  > places
                  > > from which they investigated the mysteries of the
                  > > universe.
                  > >
                  > > (...) It is important to know that in Atlantean
                  > times
                  > > there were human beings who bore an archangel in
                  > their
                  > > physical and etheric body. Clairvoyantly, one
                  > would
                  > > have seen a physical human being but behind him a
                  > > gigantic form rising far above, losing itself in
                  > > indefinite regions - the figure of the inspiriting
                  > > archangel. Such a personality had a two fold
                  > nature.
                  > > At the death of such a being, the physical body
                  > was
                  > > destroyed, according to Atlantean practice. The
                  > > physical body, which had been ensouled by the
                  > > archangel, dissolved, but the etheric body did not
                  > > dissolve. There are demands of spiritual econonmy
                  > that
                  > > run counter to the general truths of spiritual
                  > > science. We usually say, and in general it is
                  > correct,
                  > > that when a man dies, he lays aside his physical
                  > body
                  > > and after a certain time also his ether body;
                  > apart
                  > > from an extract remains, it dissolves. This,
                  > however,
                  > > is only generally the case. There is an enormous
                  > > difference between the etheric body of an initiate
                  > of
                  > > the Atlantean Oracles, which was permeated by an
                  > > archangel, and an ordinary one. Such a valuable
                  > > etheric body could not be lost; it was preserved
                  > in
                  > > the spiritual world. The seven most important
                  > etheric
                  > > bodies of the great founders of the Oracles were
                  > > preserved by the mightiest leader of the Atlantean
                  > > Oracles. These etheric bodies had been woven
                  > through
                  > > by archangelic beings who at death had naturally
                  > > returned to higher worlds. Something was preserved
                  > > (not in boxes, of course, but according to
                  > spiritual
                  > > laws).
                  > >
                  > > The Atlantean Initiate of the Sun Oracle is none
                  > other
                  > > than Manu, who led the remainder of the Atlantean
                  > > population over to Asia in order to establish the
                  > > post-Atlantean cultures there. He took a handful
                  > of
                  > > people with him and led them across Asia. He
                  > trained
                  > > people through generations and when the suitable
                  > seven
                  > > had been bred and educated sufficiently, he wove
                  > into
                  > > their etheric bodies the seven etheric bodies that
                  > had
                  > > been preserved and permeated by archangels on
                  > ancient
                  > > Atlantis. The seven, sent down by the mighty
                  > leader to
                  > > found the first post-Atlantean culture, were the
                  > Holy
                  > > Rishis of ancient India. They bore within their
                  > > sheaths the etheric bodies of the great Atlantean
                  > > leaders, who, in turn, had received them from the
                  > > archangelic beings. Thus, past, present, and
                  > future
                  > > came together.
                  > >
                  > > ...() Even in post-Atlantean times, mankind had
                  > not
                  > > advanced sufficiently to dispense with ensoulment
                  > from
                  > > above. We have seen that in Lemurian times it took
                  > > place through the fact that a Spirit of
                  > Personality
                  > > permeated the physical body; in the Atlantean
                  > period
                  > > the physical and etheric bodies were ensouled by
                  > > archangelic, beings in post Atlantean times the
                  > great
                  > > leaders of humanity were ensouled by angelic
                  > beings
                  > > who had descended into their physical, etheric and
                  > > astral bodies. The mighty leaders of the first
                  > post
                  > > Atlantean periods did not only have human
                  > physical,
                  > > etheric an astral bodies; each leader was
                  > permeated by
                  > > an angel. This enable them to look back into their
                  > > former incarnations. The ordinary person is not
                  > able
                  >
                  === message truncated ===





                  __________________________________
                  Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
                  http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
                • adm_anthroposophia
                  It s the story of the watchers. These Venus people mated with human women. X
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 28, 2005
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                    It's the story of the watchers. These Venus people mated with human women.

                    X

                    --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
                    <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hey Xandor,
                    >
                    > I'm thinking I best be starting to look over there
                    > before I type these things out. But then again I think
                    > by me typing these things out something is working in
                    > me as I read these things for the second and third
                    > time. I am glad though that y'all can now read the
                    > whole lecture. It is pretty amazing. Lemuria is where
                    > it's at I'll tell you. :)
                    >
                    > d
                    >
                    > >
                    > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/SpirHier/SpiHie_index.html
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com,
                    > > dottie zold
                    > > <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Looking to move further on the Raphael Sophia
                    > > > understanding, I found this in a book just
                    > > borrowed
                    > > > from the library: 'The Spiritual Hierarchies and
                    > > their
                    > > > reflection in the physical world'
                    > > >
                    > > > I want to share about Mercury and Venus as this is
                    > > > where my studies are right now.
                    > > >
                    > > > Chapter 7:
                    > > >
                    > > > "(...) Then something remarkable happenedd.
                    > > Lemurian
                    > > > human beings were helpless; they could not manage
                    > > > their existence on earth; they did not know what
                    > > they
                    > > > were here for. Heavenly beings, the inhabitants of
                    > > > Venus, who had an affinity with the physical body,
                    > > now
                    > > > descended to those who dwelt on earth and
                    > > permeated
                    > > > their soul substance. So, we have among the mass
                    > > of
                    > > > Lemurian humanity a few who went about in quite a
                    > > > remarkable manner for they had different physical
                    > > > bodies from the others.
                    > > >
                    > > > " Thus, the Spirits of Personality came down to
                    > > Earth
                    > > > as Venus spirits in the ancient Lemurian times.
                    > > The
                    > > > Venus messengers who had taken on human
                    > > countenance on
                    > > > earth - countenances as they were then - were of
                    > > > specific significance for the whole of the
                    > > universe.
                    > > > Cosmically, they reached up to Venus and their
                    > > deeds
                    > > > were able to lead humanity from one place to
                    > > another
                    > > > because they had insight into the connections
                    > > known to
                    > > > those acquainted not only with the earth itself
                    > > but
                    > > > with its cosmic surroundings.
                    > > >
                    > > > The development of humanity progressed. The
                    > > necessity
                    > > > arose for Archangels, Mercury Spirits, to
                    > > intervene in
                    > > > evolution. It was now their turn to ensoul and
                    > > > permeate what was to be found below on earth. This
                    > > > occurred mainly during the Atlantean period.
                    > > Spiritual
                    > > > beings from Mercury, Archangels, descended who
                    > > were
                    > > > able to ensoul and permeate the physical and
                    > > etheric
                    > > > bodies of certain human beings. So we also find
                    > > among
                    > > > the Atlantean human beings who could not outwardly
                    > > be
                    > > > distinguished appreciably from others but who were
                    > > > ensouled by an archangel in their physical bodies.
                    > > > Now, if you recall that it was said yesterday
                    > > that
                    > > > archangels have the task of guiding whole peoples,
                    > > you
                    > > > will understand that a person who carries an
                    > > > archangelic being in himself was simply able to
                    > > impart
                    > > > to a whole Atlantean tribe the appropriate laws
                    > > > inscribed in the heavenly world.
                    > > >
                    > > > The great leaders of ancient Lemurian times, when
                    > > it
                    > > > was necessary to act more generally, were ensouled
                    > > by
                    > > > spirits from Venus. Those whose task it was to
                    > > direct
                    > > > groups of people were ensouled by archangels. The
                    > > > priest-kings of Altantean times were really a
                    > > maya:
                    > > > they were not what they outwardly appeared to be.
                    > > An
                    > > > archangel dwelt in their physical and etheric body
                    > > and
                    > > > this was the actual acting agent. Going back to
                    > > > Atlantean times, we find the hidden centers of
                    > > these
                    > > > leaders of humanity. They worked from hidden
                    > > places
                    > > > from which they investigated the mysteries of the
                    > > > universe.
                    > > >
                    > > > (...) It is important to know that in Atlantean
                    > > times
                    > > > there were human beings who bore an archangel in
                    > > their
                    > > > physical and etheric body. Clairvoyantly, one
                    > > would
                    > > > have seen a physical human being but behind him a
                    > > > gigantic form rising far above, losing itself in
                    > > > indefinite regions - the figure of the inspiriting
                    > > > archangel. Such a personality had a two fold
                    > > nature.
                    > > > At the death of such a being, the physical body
                    > > was
                    > > > destroyed, according to Atlantean practice. The
                    > > > physical body, which had been ensouled by the
                    > > > archangel, dissolved, but the etheric body did not
                    > > > dissolve. There are demands of spiritual econonmy
                    > > that
                    > > > run counter to the general truths of spiritual
                    > > > science. We usually say, and in general it is
                    > > correct,
                    > > > that when a man dies, he lays aside his physical
                    > > body
                    > > > and after a certain time also his ether body;
                    > > apart
                    > > > from an extract remains, it dissolves. This,
                    > > however,
                    > > > is only generally the case. There is an enormous
                    > > > difference between the etheric body of an initiate
                    > > of
                    > > > the Atlantean Oracles, which was permeated by an
                    > > > archangel, and an ordinary one. Such a valuable
                    > > > etheric body could not be lost; it was preserved
                    > > in
                    > > > the spiritual world. The seven most important
                    > > etheric
                    > > > bodies of the great founders of the Oracles were
                    > > > preserved by the mightiest leader of the Atlantean
                    > > > Oracles. These etheric bodies had been woven
                    > > through
                    > > > by archangelic beings who at death had naturally
                    > > > returned to higher worlds. Something was preserved
                    > > > (not in boxes, of course, but according to
                    > > spiritual
                    > > > laws).
                    > > >
                    > > > The Atlantean Initiate of the Sun Oracle is none
                    > > other
                    > > > than Manu, who led the remainder of the Atlantean
                    > > > population over to Asia in order to establish the
                    > > > post-Atlantean cultures there. He took a handful
                    > > of
                    > > > people with him and led them across Asia. He
                    > > trained
                    > > > people through generations and when the suitable
                    > > seven
                    > > > had been bred and educated sufficiently, he wove
                    > > into
                    > > > their etheric bodies the seven etheric bodies that
                    > > had
                    > > > been preserved and permeated by archangels on
                    > > ancient
                    > > > Atlantis. The seven, sent down by the mighty
                    > > leader to
                    > > > found the first post-Atlantean culture, were the
                    > > Holy
                    > > > Rishis of ancient India. They bore within their
                    > > > sheaths the etheric bodies of the great Atlantean
                    > > > leaders, who, in turn, had received them from the
                    > > > archangelic beings. Thus, past, present, and
                    > > future
                    > > > came together.
                    > > >
                    > > > ...() Even in post-Atlantean times, mankind had
                    > > not
                    > > > advanced sufficiently to dispense with ensoulment
                    > > from
                    > > > above. We have seen that in Lemurian times it took
                    > > > place through the fact that a Spirit of
                    > > Personality
                    > > > permeated the physical body; in the Atlantean
                    > > period
                    > > > the physical and etheric bodies were ensouled by
                    > > > archangelic, beings in post Atlantean times the
                    > > great
                    > > > leaders of humanity were ensouled by angelic
                    > > beings
                    > > > who had descended into their physical, etheric and
                    > > > astral bodies. The mighty leaders of the first
                    > > post
                    > > > Atlantean periods did not only have human
                    > > physical,
                    > > > etheric an astral bodies; each leader was
                    > > permeated by
                    > > > an angel. This enable them to look back into their
                    > > > former incarnations. The ordinary person is not
                    > > able
                    > >
                    > === message truncated ===
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > __________________________________
                    > Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
                    > http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
                    >
                  • dottie zold
                    Hey X, I was thinking to understand what you meant by the Watchers and what this has to do with Venus. This morning I was looking through the book of
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 29, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hey X,

                      I was thinking to understand what you meant by the
                      Watchers and what this has to do with Venus. This
                      morning I was looking through the book of
                      correspondences between Rudolf Steiner and Marie and
                      found this:

                      " Two events are of significance for the next stage.
                      One is the creation of the two sexes for the reasons
                      given above. The form this takes originates4es with
                      the Spirits of Form. But t his does not yet contain
                      the attraction of the two sexes for one another, or
                      their affection for each other. This has its origins
                      in the embodiment of specific beings in the life of
                      both sexes, beings who come down from a foreign place,
                      from Venus. They incorporate into the Earth LOVE in
                      its lowest form as the attraction between the sexes.
                      This love is called upon to ennoble itself
                      increasingly and, at a later time, to take on its
                      highest forms."


                      Dottie:
                      This also calls to mind the quote by Virginia Sease
                      regarding at one point the beings were all 'women'.
                      And I have found this in Rudolf Steiner's work
                      pertaining that at one point they gave birth of
                      themselves as one. This is what is considered the
                      females ability here on earth. So, when looking at
                      what the androgynous being was able to do it was also
                      able to birth and hence I imagine this is how we have
                      the phrase 'they were all female beings' in the
                      beginning. :) yeah, that sounds about right ey? And
                      so we are all returning to being females again :)))
                      that is so funny. You were all wombmen or women...what
                      a good year this is going to be. :)

                      d


                      > It's the story of the watchers. These Venus people
                      > mated with human women.
                      >
                      > X
                      >
                      > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com,
                      > dottie zold
                      > <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hey Xandor,
                      > >
                      > > I'm thinking I best be starting to look over there
                      > > before I type these things out. But then again I
                      > think
                      > > by me typing these things out something is working
                      > in
                      > > me as I read these things for the second and third
                      > > time. I am glad though that y'all can now read the
                      > > whole lecture. It is pretty amazing. Lemuria is
                      > where
                      > > it's at I'll tell you. :)
                      > >
                      > > d
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/SpirHier/SpiHie_index.html
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com,
                      > > > dottie zold
                      > > > <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Looking to move further on the Raphael Sophia
                      > > > > understanding, I found this in a book just
                      > > > borrowed
                      > > > > from the library: 'The Spiritual Hierarchies
                      > and
                      > > > their
                      > > > > reflection in the physical world'
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I want to share about Mercury and Venus as
                      > this is
                      > > > > where my studies are right now.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Chapter 7:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > "(...) Then something remarkable happenedd.
                      > > > Lemurian
                      > > > > human beings were helpless; they could not
                      > manage
                      > > > > their existence on earth; they did not know
                      > what
                      > > > they
                      > > > > were here for. Heavenly beings, the
                      > inhabitants of
                      > > > > Venus, who had an affinity with the physical
                      > body,
                      > > > now
                      > > > > descended to those who dwelt on earth and
                      > > > permeated
                      > > > > their soul substance. So, we have among the
                      > mass
                      > > > of
                      > > > > Lemurian humanity a few who went about in
                      > quite a
                      > > > > remarkable manner for they had different
                      > physical
                      > > > > bodies from the others.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > " Thus, the Spirits of Personality came down
                      > to
                      > > > Earth
                      > > > > as Venus spirits in the ancient Lemurian
                      > times.
                      > > > The
                      > > > > Venus messengers who had taken on human
                      > > > countenance on
                      > > > > earth - countenances as they were then - were
                      > of
                      > > > > specific significance for the whole of the
                      > > > universe.
                      > > > > Cosmically, they reached up to Venus and their
                      > > > deeds
                      > > > > were able to lead humanity from one place to
                      > > > another
                      > > > > because they had insight into the connections
                      > > > known to
                      > > > > those acquainted not only with the earth
                      > itself
                      > > > but
                      > > > > with its cosmic surroundings.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The development of humanity progressed. The
                      > > > necessity
                      > > > > arose for Archangels, Mercury Spirits, to
                      > > > intervene in
                      > > > > evolution. It was now their turn to ensoul and
                      > > > > permeate what was to be found below on earth.
                      > This
                      > > > > occurred mainly during the Atlantean period.
                      > > > Spiritual
                      > > > > beings from Mercury, Archangels, descended who
                      > > > were
                      > > > > able to ensoul and permeate the physical and
                      > > > etheric
                      > > > > bodies of certain human beings. So we also
                      > find
                      > > > among
                      > > > > the Atlantean human beings who could not
                      > outwardly
                      > > > be
                      > > > > distinguished appreciably from others but who
                      > were
                      > > > > ensouled by an archangel in their physical
                      > bodies.
                      > > > > Now, if you recall that it was said yesterday
                      > > > that
                      > > > > archangels have the task of guiding whole
                      > peoples,
                      > > > you
                      > > > > will understand that a person who carries an
                      > > > > archangelic being in himself was simply able
                      > to
                      > > > impart
                      > > > > to a whole Atlantean tribe the appropriate
                      > laws
                      > > > > inscribed in the heavenly world.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The great leaders of ancient Lemurian times,
                      > when
                      > > > it
                      > > > > was necessary to act more generally, were
                      > ensouled
                      > > > by
                      > > > > spirits from Venus. Those whose task it was to
                      > > > direct
                      > > > > groups of people were ensouled by archangels.
                      > The
                      > > > > priest-kings of Altantean times were really a
                      > > > maya:
                      > > > > they were not what they outwardly appeared to
                      > be.
                      > > > An
                      > > > > archangel dwelt in their physical and etheric
                      > body
                      > > > and
                      > > > > this was the actual acting agent. Going back
                      > to
                      > > > > Atlantean times, we find the hidden centers of
                      > > > these
                      > > > > leaders of humanity. They worked from hidden
                      > > > places
                      > > > > from which they investigated the mysteries of
                      > the
                      > > > > universe.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > (...) It is important to know that in
                      > Atlantean
                      > > > times
                      > > > > there were human beings who bore an archangel
                      > in
                      > > > their
                      > > > > physical and etheric body. Clairvoyantly, one
                      > > > would
                      > > > > have seen a physical human being but behind
                      > him a
                      > > > > gigantic form rising far above, losing itself
                      > in
                      > > > > indefinite regions - the figure of the
                      > inspiriting
                      > > > > archangel. Such a personality had a two fold
                      > > > nature.
                      > > > > At the death of such a being, the physical
                      > body
                      > > > was
                      > > > > destroyed, according to Atlantean practice.
                      > The
                      > > > > physical body, which had been ensouled by the
                      > > > > archangel, dissolved, but the etheric body did
                      > not
                      > > > > dissolve. There are demands of spiritual
                      > econonmy
                      > > > that
                      > > > > run counter to the general truths of spiritual
                      > > > > science. We usually say, and in general it is
                      > > > correct,
                      > > > > that when a man dies, he lays aside his
                      > physical
                      > > > body
                      > > > > and after a certain time also his ether body;
                      > > > apart
                      > > > > from an extract remains, it dissolves. This,
                      > > > however,
                      > > > > is only generally the case. There is an
                      > enormous
                      > > > > difference between the etheric body of an
                      > initiate
                      > > > of
                      > > > > the Atlantean Oracles, which was permeated by
                      > an
                      >
                      === message truncated ===





                      __________________________________
                      Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
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                    • adm_anthroposophia
                      hahhahhah...you got it all planned eej D. I love women :-) Still, why is Eve so ill ;-) X
                      Message 10 of 25 , Dec 29, 2005
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                        hahhahhah...you got it all planned eej D. I love women :-) Still, why
                        is Eve so ill ;-)

                        X

                        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
                        <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hey X,
                        >
                        > I was thinking to understand what you meant by the
                        > Watchers and what this has to do with Venus. This
                        > morning I was looking through the book of
                        > correspondences between Rudolf Steiner and Marie and
                        > found this:
                        >
                        > " Two events are of significance for the next stage.
                        > One is the creation of the two sexes for the reasons
                        > given above. The form this takes originates4es with
                        > the Spirits of Form. But t his does not yet contain
                        > the attraction of the two sexes for one another, or
                        > their affection for each other. This has its origins
                        > in the embodiment of specific beings in the life of
                        > both sexes, beings who come down from a foreign place,
                        > from Venus. They incorporate into the Earth LOVE in
                        > its lowest form as the attraction between the sexes.
                        > This love is called upon to ennoble itself
                        > increasingly and, at a later time, to take on its
                        > highest forms."
                        >
                        >
                        > Dottie:
                        > This also calls to mind the quote by Virginia Sease
                        > regarding at one point the beings were all 'women'.
                        > And I have found this in Rudolf Steiner's work
                        > pertaining that at one point they gave birth of
                        > themselves as one. This is what is considered the
                        > females ability here on earth. So, when looking at
                        > what the androgynous being was able to do it was also
                        > able to birth and hence I imagine this is how we have
                        > the phrase 'they were all female beings' in the
                        > beginning. :) yeah, that sounds about right ey? And
                        > so we are all returning to being females again :)))
                        > that is so funny. You were all wombmen or women...what
                        > a good year this is going to be. :)
                        >
                        > d
                        >
                        >
                        > > It's the story of the watchers. These Venus people
                        > > mated with human women.
                        > >
                        > > X
                        > >
                        > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com,
                        > > dottie zold
                        > > <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Hey Xandor,
                        > > >
                        > > > I'm thinking I best be starting to look over there
                        > > > before I type these things out. But then again I
                        > > think
                        > > > by me typing these things out something is working
                        > > in
                        > > > me as I read these things for the second and third
                        > > > time. I am glad though that y'all can now read the
                        > > > whole lecture. It is pretty amazing. Lemuria is
                        > > where
                        > > > it's at I'll tell you. :)
                        > > >
                        > > > d
                        > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/SpirHier/SpiHie_index.html
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com,
                        > > > > dottie zold
                        > > > > <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Looking to move further on the Raphael Sophia
                        > > > > > understanding, I found this in a book just
                        > > > > borrowed
                        > > > > > from the library: 'The Spiritual Hierarchies
                        > > and
                        > > > > their
                        > > > > > reflection in the physical world'
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I want to share about Mercury and Venus as
                        > > this is
                        > > > > > where my studies are right now.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Chapter 7:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > "(...) Then something remarkable happenedd.
                        > > > > Lemurian
                        > > > > > human beings were helpless; they could not
                        > > manage
                        > > > > > their existence on earth; they did not know
                        > > what
                        > > > > they
                        > > > > > were here for. Heavenly beings, the
                        > > inhabitants of
                        > > > > > Venus, who had an affinity with the physical
                        > > body,
                        > > > > now
                        > > > > > descended to those who dwelt on earth and
                        > > > > permeated
                        > > > > > their soul substance. So, we have among the
                        > > mass
                        > > > > of
                        > > > > > Lemurian humanity a few who went about in
                        > > quite a
                        > > > > > remarkable manner for they had different
                        > > physical
                        > > > > > bodies from the others.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > " Thus, the Spirits of Personality came down
                        > > to
                        > > > > Earth
                        > > > > > as Venus spirits in the ancient Lemurian
                        > > times.
                        > > > > The
                        > > > > > Venus messengers who had taken on human
                        > > > > countenance on
                        > > > > > earth - countenances as they were then - were
                        > > of
                        > > > > > specific significance for the whole of the
                        > > > > universe.
                        > > > > > Cosmically, they reached up to Venus and their
                        > > > > deeds
                        > > > > > were able to lead humanity from one place to
                        > > > > another
                        > > > > > because they had insight into the connections
                        > > > > known to
                        > > > > > those acquainted not only with the earth
                        > > itself
                        > > > > but
                        > > > > > with its cosmic surroundings.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > The development of humanity progressed. The
                        > > > > necessity
                        > > > > > arose for Archangels, Mercury Spirits, to
                        > > > > intervene in
                        > > > > > evolution. It was now their turn to ensoul and
                        > > > > > permeate what was to be found below on earth.
                        > > This
                        > > > > > occurred mainly during the Atlantean period.
                        > > > > Spiritual
                        > > > > > beings from Mercury, Archangels, descended who
                        > > > > were
                        > > > > > able to ensoul and permeate the physical and
                        > > > > etheric
                        > > > > > bodies of certain human beings. So we also
                        > > find
                        > > > > among
                        > > > > > the Atlantean human beings who could not
                        > > outwardly
                        > > > > be
                        > > > > > distinguished appreciably from others but who
                        > > were
                        > > > > > ensouled by an archangel in their physical
                        > > bodies.
                        > > > > > Now, if you recall that it was said yesterday
                        > > > > that
                        > > > > > archangels have the task of guiding whole
                        > > peoples,
                        > > > > you
                        > > > > > will understand that a person who carries an
                        > > > > > archangelic being in himself was simply able
                        > > to
                        > > > > impart
                        > > > > > to a whole Atlantean tribe the appropriate
                        > > laws
                        > > > > > inscribed in the heavenly world.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > The great leaders of ancient Lemurian times,
                        > > when
                        > > > > it
                        > > > > > was necessary to act more generally, were
                        > > ensouled
                        > > > > by
                        > > > > > spirits from Venus. Those whose task it was to
                        > > > > direct
                        > > > > > groups of people were ensouled by archangels.
                        > > The
                        > > > > > priest-kings of Altantean times were really a
                        > > > > maya:
                        > > > > > they were not what they outwardly appeared to
                        > > be.
                        > > > > An
                        > > > > > archangel dwelt in their physical and etheric
                        > > body
                        > > > > and
                        > > > > > this was the actual acting agent. Going back
                        > > to
                        > > > > > Atlantean times, we find the hidden centers of
                        > > > > these
                        > > > > > leaders of humanity. They worked from hidden
                        > > > > places
                        > > > > > from which they investigated the mysteries of
                        > > the
                        > > > > > universe.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > (...) It is important to know that in
                        > > Atlantean
                        > > > > times
                        > > > > > there were human beings who bore an archangel
                        > > in
                        > > > > their
                        > > > > > physical and etheric body. Clairvoyantly, one
                        > > > > would
                        > > > > > have seen a physical human being but behind
                        > > him a
                        > > > > > gigantic form rising far above, losing itself
                        > > in
                        > > > > > indefinite regions - the figure of the
                        > > inspiriting
                        > > > > > archangel. Such a personality had a two fold
                        > > > > nature.
                        > > > > > At the death of such a being, the physical
                        > > body
                        > > > > was
                        > > > > > destroyed, according to Atlantean practice.
                        > > The
                        > > > > > physical body, which had been ensouled by the
                        > > > > > archangel, dissolved, but the etheric body did
                        > > not
                        > > > > > dissolve. There are demands of spiritual
                        > > econonmy
                        > > > > that
                        > > > > > run counter to the general truths of spiritual
                        > > > > > science. We usually say, and in general it is
                        > > > > correct,
                        > > > > > that when a man dies, he lays aside his
                        > > physical
                        > > > > body
                        > > > > > and after a certain time also his ether body;
                        > > > > apart
                        > > > > > from an extract remains, it dissolves. This,
                        > > > > however,
                        > > > > > is only generally the case. There is an
                        > > enormous
                        > > > > > difference between the etheric body of an
                        > > initiate
                        > > > > of
                        > > > > > the Atlantean Oracles, which was permeated by
                        > > an
                        > >
                        > === message truncated ===
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > __________________________________
                        > Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
                        > http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
                        >
                      • dottie zold
                        Well, Emil Bock is amazing. So we find he connects Manu-Noah to the first healer of the world. That as man began his physical humanness there was a greater
                        Message 11 of 25 , Dec 29, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Well, Emil Bock is amazing. So we find he connects
                          Manu-Noah to the first 'healer' of the world. That as
                          man began his physical humanness there was a greater
                          call for healing.

                          " The most profound reference to the secret of the
                          Noah figure is, however, the name given him by all
                          traditions, 'Menahem', usually translated as
                          'comforter'. This name also becomes apparent in the
                          interpretation of the Old Testament gives of the word
                          Noah: 'He (Lamech) became the father of a son and
                          called his name Noah, saying, 'Out of the ground which
                          the Lord has cursed this one shall bring us relief
                          (comfort) from our work and from the toil of our
                          hands."' (Gen. 5:29). Menahem is the Hebrew word for
                          the Greek ......, 'the Paraclete'. The words of
                          Christ, according to St. John, which promise the
                          coming of the 'Councilor'. But Menahem or Paraclete is
                          more than a comforter or of the Holy Spirit through
                          the name Manahem. Like the dove, which spiritually
                          appeared at the Baptism in the Jordan as the image of
                          the being overshadowing Jesus of Jesus of Nazareth,
                          the dove that brought the olive branch was the image
                          of an actual spiritual figure hovering over Noah. For
                          this reason, the dove over the receding waters of the
                          Flood was always perceived by ancient imaginative
                          theology as an analogy and prophecy of the dove over
                          the waters of the Jordan.

                          From Seth and Enoch, the Book of Adam goes to Noah. He
                          was the figure o the continuation of the primal
                          revelation. One thing becomes clear through all the
                          traditions: Noah was to guide the stream of revelation
                          in a certain direction. The first point that is
                          depicted as an essential part of the teaching which
                          Noah imparted to humanity from the holy book arose
                          from the new condition of the cosmos, since now the
                          clearly observable rhythms of the stars and of the
                          time emerged: it was the start of a knowledge of
                          numbers, proportions and measures.

                          "Noah learned from Adam... the true art of counting
                          and took over from him the book of the signs, the book
                          of knowledge of the stars...This book was written on a
                          sapphire stone, clearly and distinctly, and from it
                          Noah learned to know the work of the miracles as well
                          as the secrets and treasures of reason...so that he
                          was now capable of fathoming the stages of the upper
                          regions, to roam through all seven spheres and circle
                          all the planets. He could observe their paths and
                          explore the course of the moon, as well as the paths
                          of Aldebaran, Orion and Sirius. Noah knew the name of
                          each heaven and what its function consisted of."

                          The second part of Noah's teaching was related to the
                          new condition of human nature:

                          " The ancient sages copied a book about the art of
                          healing from a book...which had been transmitted to
                          Noah after the Flood...God sent one of his angels by
                          the name of Raphael...and the angel revealed to Noah
                          the remedies that heal sickness, and showed him the
                          medicines to be taken from trees, herb, and
                          roots...From this book, the first sages gathered their
                          knowledge and then wrote many books on healing, each
                          in his own tongue. Thus the art of healing spread to
                          all peoples of the earth; the sages from India, from
                          Macedonia and from Egypt all made use of it."

                          The origin of medical art presupposes the spread of
                          disease. Noah could become the inaugurator of the art
                          of healing, the Asclepius of mankind, for, after death
                          had become a reality, illness also invaded mankind.
                          The cosmos cleared, and human consciousness also
                          filled with clarity and wake fullness, but man lost
                          his cosmic powers. He became weak in order to be able
                          to become free. The yet unfree man of sleepfilled
                          ancient times required healing no more than does the
                          plant kingdom. But the freer he became, the more man
                          was in need of help and healing, the more he required
                          the helping healer. Through the primeval wisdom that
                          permeated him and the healing spirit hovering over
                          him, Noah was the first healer of humanity.'

                          Dottie:

                          Now a few things come to me and I am wondering who was
                          Tobiah's father who was blind? Also, I find it
                          extraordinary interesting that it is said that Noah
                          married the 'daughter of Enoch'. And that Enoch had
                          three daughters and seven sons and this is all applied
                          to the Tree of the Kabbalah. I mean I find that to be
                          astounding. Who is this Enoch? Well, whoever he is,
                          and I still have a bit more to read in this book
                          Genesis by Emil Bock, he is connected clearly to Adam
                          and to Noah. And he is connected to Manu who is
                          connected to Zarathustra. He says that Noah was the
                          tenth after Adam and that Enoch was the seventh. And
                          then we head up to Moses by the very designation that
                          'both Noah's ark and Moses' basket of bulrushes with
                          one and the same word, 'tebbah'.

                          So I think I can find Enoch Manu Noah Zarathustra
                          Raphael......

                          Whew,
                          d






                          __________________________________
                          Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
                          http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
                        • dottie zold
                          X; ... She ss illin with all you frieken hard heads around her. I mean really, if you woulda just listened it wouldna taken this long to get to where we need
                          Message 12 of 25 , Dec 29, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            X;
                            > hahhahhah...you got it all planned eej D. I love
                            > women :-) Still, why
                            > is Eve so ill ;-)

                            She'ss illin with all you frieken hard heads around
                            her. I mean really, if you woulda just listened it
                            wouldna taken this long to get to where we need to be
                            going. How much longer do we have to do this? Depends
                            on the hard heads, its a mans world after all:))) I am
                            going to make myself submissive when I come back as a
                            man...it's all gonna be 'yesm' :)

                            d







                            > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com,
                            > dottie zold
                            > <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Hey X,
                            > >
                            > > I was thinking to understand what you meant by the
                            > > Watchers and what this has to do with Venus. This
                            > > morning I was looking through the book of
                            > > correspondences between Rudolf Steiner and Marie
                            > and
                            > > found this:
                            > >
                            > > " Two events are of significance for the next
                            > stage.
                            > > One is the creation of the two sexes for the
                            > reasons
                            > > given above. The form this takes originates4es
                            > with
                            > > the Spirits of Form. But t his does not yet
                            > contain
                            > > the attraction of the two sexes for one another,
                            > or
                            > > their affection for each other. This has its
                            > origins
                            > > in the embodiment of specific beings in the life
                            > of
                            > > both sexes, beings who come down from a foreign
                            > place,
                            > > from Venus. They incorporate into the Earth LOVE
                            > in
                            > > its lowest form as the attraction between the
                            > sexes.
                            > > This love is called upon to ennoble itself
                            > > increasingly and, at a later time, to take on its
                            > > highest forms."
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Dottie:
                            > > This also calls to mind the quote by Virginia
                            > Sease
                            > > regarding at one point the beings were all
                            > 'women'.
                            > > And I have found this in Rudolf Steiner's work
                            > > pertaining that at one point they gave birth of
                            > > themselves as one. This is what is considered the
                            > > females ability here on earth. So, when looking at
                            > > what the androgynous being was able to do it was
                            > also
                            > > able to birth and hence I imagine this is how we
                            > have
                            > > the phrase 'they were all female beings' in the
                            > > beginning. :) yeah, that sounds about right ey?
                            > And
                            > > so we are all returning to being females again
                            > :)))
                            > > that is so funny. You were all wombmen or
                            > women...what
                            > > a good year this is going to be. :)
                            > >
                            > > d
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > > It's the story of the watchers. These Venus
                            > people
                            > > > mated with human women.
                            > > >
                            > > > X
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com,
                            > > > dottie zold
                            > > > <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Hey Xandor,
                            > > > >
                            > > > > I'm thinking I best be starting to look over
                            > there
                            > > > > before I type these things out. But then again
                            > I
                            > > > think
                            > > > > by me typing these things out something is
                            > working
                            > > > in
                            > > > > me as I read these things for the second and
                            > third
                            > > > > time. I am glad though that y'all can now read
                            > the
                            > > > > whole lecture. It is pretty amazing. Lemuria
                            > is
                            > > > where
                            > > > > it's at I'll tell you. :)
                            > > > >
                            > > > > d
                            > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                            http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/SpirHier/SpiHie_index.html
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > --- In
                            > anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com,
                            > > > > > dottie zold
                            > > > > > <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > Looking to move further on the Raphael
                            > Sophia
                            > > > > > > understanding, I found this in a book
                            > just
                            > > > > > borrowed
                            > > > > > > from the library: 'The Spiritual
                            > Hierarchies
                            > > > and
                            > > > > > their
                            > > > > > > reflection in the physical world'
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > I want to share about Mercury and Venus as
                            > > > this is
                            > > > > > > where my studies are right now.
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > Chapter 7:
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > "(...) Then something remarkable
                            > happenedd.
                            > > > > > Lemurian
                            > > > > > > human beings were helpless; they could not
                            > > > manage
                            > > > > > > their existence on earth; they did not
                            > know
                            > > > what
                            > > > > > they
                            > > > > > > were here for. Heavenly beings, the
                            > > > inhabitants of
                            > > > > > > Venus, who had an affinity with the
                            > physical
                            > > > body,
                            > > > > > now
                            > > > > > > descended to those who dwelt on earth and
                            > > > > > permeated
                            > > > > > > their soul substance. So, we have among
                            > the
                            > > > mass
                            > > > > > of
                            > > > > > > Lemurian humanity a few who went about in
                            > > > quite a
                            > > > > > > remarkable manner for they had different
                            > > > physical
                            > > > > > > bodies from the others.
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > " Thus, the Spirits of Personality came
                            > down
                            > > > to
                            > > > > > Earth
                            > > > > > > as Venus spirits in the ancient Lemurian
                            > > > times.
                            > > > > > The
                            > > > > > > Venus messengers who had taken on human
                            > > > > > countenance on
                            > > > > > > earth - countenances as they were then -
                            > were
                            > > > of
                            > > > > > > specific significance for the whole of the
                            > > > > > universe.
                            > > > > > > Cosmically, they reached up to Venus and
                            > their
                            > > > > > deeds
                            > > > > > > were able to lead humanity from one place
                            > to
                            > > > > > another
                            > > > > > > because they had insight into the
                            > connections
                            > > > > > known to
                            > > > > > > those acquainted not only with the earth
                            > > > itself
                            > > > > > but
                            > > > > > > with its cosmic surroundings.
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > The development of humanity progressed.
                            > The
                            > > > > > necessity
                            > > > > > > arose for Archangels, Mercury Spirits, to
                            > > > > > intervene in
                            > > > > > > evolution. It was now their turn to ensoul
                            > and
                            > > > > > > permeate what was to be found below on
                            > earth.
                            > > > This
                            > > > > > > occurred mainly during the Atlantean
                            > period.
                            > > > > > Spiritual
                            > > > > > > beings from Mercury, Archangels, descended
                            > who
                            > > > > > were
                            >
                            === message truncated ===





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                          • dottie zold
                            Yeah, it feels like something moves closer: Genesis Emil Bock The apocryphal writings touch upon the deepest mysteries concerning the figure of Enoch, where
                            Message 13 of 25 , Dec 29, 2005
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                              Yeah, it feels like something moves closer: Genesis
                              Emil Bock

                              'The apocryphal writings touch upon the deepest
                              mysteries concerning the figure of Enoch, where they
                              designate him as the bearer of the being whom Paul
                              later called 'the second Adam'.

                              "The light of the loftiest soul, which flew away from
                              Adam when he was driven from the garden of Eden,
                              ascended again and was preserved in a treasure
                              chamber until Enoch was to come. Then this highest
                              light of the holy soul came into Enoch, and Enoch
                              attained to the same greatness that Adam possessed
                              before the Fall."

                              XANDOR!, what is that exactly saying? do you know? I
                              mean, well, what does that say to you? d


                              --- dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

                              > Well, Emil Bock is amazing. So we find he connects
                              > Manu-Noah to the first 'healer' of the world. That
                              > as
                              > man began his physical humanness there was a greater
                              > call for healing.
                              >
                              > " The most profound reference to the secret of the
                              > Noah figure is, however, the name given him by all
                              > traditions, 'Menahem', usually translated as
                              > 'comforter'. This name also becomes apparent in the
                              > interpretation of the Old Testament gives of the
                              > word
                              > Noah: 'He (Lamech) became the father of a son and
                              > called his name Noah, saying, 'Out of the ground
                              > which
                              > the Lord has cursed this one shall bring us relief
                              > (comfort) from our work and from the toil of our
                              > hands."' (Gen. 5:29). Menahem is the Hebrew word for
                              > the Greek ......, 'the Paraclete'. The words of
                              > Christ, according to St. John, which promise the
                              > coming of the 'Councilor'. But Menahem or Paraclete
                              > is
                              > more than a comforter or of the Holy Spirit through
                              > the name Manahem. Like the dove, which spiritually
                              > appeared at the Baptism in the Jordan as the image
                              > of
                              > the being overshadowing Jesus of Jesus of Nazareth,
                              > the dove that brought the olive branch was the image
                              > of an actual spiritual figure hovering over Noah.
                              > For
                              > this reason, the dove over the receding waters of
                              > the
                              > Flood was always perceived by ancient imaginative
                              > theology as an analogy and prophecy of the dove over
                              > the waters of the Jordan.
                              >
                              > From Seth and Enoch, the Book of Adam goes to Noah.
                              > He
                              > was the figure o the continuation of the primal
                              > revelation. One thing becomes clear through all the
                              > traditions: Noah was to guide the stream of
                              > revelation
                              > in a certain direction. The first point that is
                              > depicted as an essential part of the teaching which
                              > Noah imparted to humanity from the holy book arose
                              > from the new condition of the cosmos, since now the
                              > clearly observable rhythms of the stars and of the
                              > time emerged: it was the start of a knowledge of
                              > numbers, proportions and measures.
                              >
                              > "Noah learned from Adam... the true art of counting
                              > and took over from him the book of the signs, the
                              > book
                              > of knowledge of the stars...This book was written on
                              > a
                              > sapphire stone, clearly and distinctly, and from it
                              > Noah learned to know the work of the miracles as
                              > well
                              > as the secrets and treasures of reason...so that he
                              > was now capable of fathoming the stages of the upper
                              > regions, to roam through all seven spheres and
                              > circle
                              > all the planets. He could observe their paths and
                              > explore the course of the moon, as well as the paths
                              > of Aldebaran, Orion and Sirius. Noah knew the name
                              > of
                              > each heaven and what its function consisted of."
                              >
                              > The second part of Noah's teaching was related to
                              > the
                              > new condition of human nature:
                              >
                              > " The ancient sages copied a book about the art of
                              > healing from a book...which had been transmitted to
                              > Noah after the Flood...God sent one of his angels by
                              > the name of Raphael...and the angel revealed to Noah
                              >
                              > the remedies that heal sickness, and showed him the
                              > medicines to be taken from trees, herb, and
                              > roots...From this book, the first sages gathered
                              > their
                              > knowledge and then wrote many books on healing, each
                              > in his own tongue. Thus the art of healing spread to
                              > all peoples of the earth; the sages from India, from
                              > Macedonia and from Egypt all made use of it."
                              >
                              > The origin of medical art presupposes the spread of
                              > disease. Noah could become the inaugurator of the
                              > art
                              > of healing, the Asclepius of mankind, for, after
                              > death
                              > had become a reality, illness also invaded mankind.
                              > The cosmos cleared, and human consciousness also
                              > filled with clarity and wake fullness, but man lost
                              > his cosmic powers. He became weak in order to be
                              > able
                              > to become free. The yet unfree man of sleepfilled
                              > ancient times required healing no more than does the
                              > plant kingdom. But the freer he became, the more man
                              > was in need of help and healing, the more he
                              > required
                              > the helping healer. Through the primeval wisdom that
                              > permeated him and the healing spirit hovering over
                              > him, Noah was the first healer of humanity.'
                              >
                              > Dottie:
                              >
                              > Now a few things come to me and I am wondering who
                              > was
                              > Tobiah's father who was blind? Also, I find it
                              > extraordinary interesting that it is said that Noah
                              > married the 'daughter of Enoch'. And that Enoch had
                              > three daughters and seven sons and this is all
                              > applied
                              > to the Tree of the Kabbalah. I mean I find that to
                              > be
                              > astounding. Who is this Enoch? Well, whoever he is,
                              > and I still have a bit more to read in this book
                              > Genesis by Emil Bock, he is connected clearly to
                              > Adam
                              > and to Noah. And he is connected to Manu who is
                              > connected to Zarathustra. He says that Noah was the
                              > tenth after Adam and that Enoch was the seventh. And
                              > then we head up to Moses by the very designation
                              > that
                              > 'both Noah's ark and Moses' basket of bulrushes with
                              > one and the same word, 'tebbah'.
                              >
                              > So I think I can find Enoch Manu Noah Zarathustra
                              > Raphael......
                              >
                              > Whew,
                              > d
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > __________________________________
                              > Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
                              > http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
                              >





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                            • Frank Smith
                              ... You ain t gonna have no choice, honey. By that time the women (us) will be ruling the world and 20th century MArgaret Thatcher and Evita will seem like
                              Message 14 of 25 , Dec 29, 2005
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                                --- dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

                                > X;
                                > > hahhahhah...you got it all planned eej D. I love
                                > > women :-) Still, why
                                > > is Eve so ill ;-)
                                >
                                > She'ss illin with all you frieken hard heads around
                                > her. I mean really, if you woulda just listened it
                                > wouldna taken this long to get to where we need to
                                > be
                                > going. How much longer do we have to do this?
                                > Depends
                                > on the hard heads, its a mans world after all:))) I
                                > am
                                > going to make myself submissive when I come back as
                                > a
                                > man...it's all gonna be 'yesm' :)
                                >
                                > d
                                >
                                You ain't gonna have no choice, honey. By that time
                                the women (us) will be ruling the world and 20th
                                century MArgaret Thatcher and Evita will seem like
                                kindergaten teachers.

                                f

                                Frank Thomas Smith
                                http://SouthernCrossReview.org



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                              • dottie zold
                                ... Oh boy, oh boy oh boy, well, it is said that I have been a female in all my incarnations, although I do recall one male warrior, so maybe I shall luck out
                                Message 15 of 25 , Dec 29, 2005
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                                  --- Frank Smith <eltrigal78@...> wrote:

                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > X;
                                  > > > hahhahhah...you got it all planned eej D. I love
                                  > > > women :-) Still, why
                                  > > > is Eve so ill ;-)
                                  > >
                                  > > She'ss illin with all you frieken hard heads
                                  > around
                                  > > her. I mean really, if you woulda just listened it
                                  > > wouldna taken this long to get to where we need to
                                  > > be
                                  > > going. How much longer do we have to do this?
                                  > > Depends
                                  > > on the hard heads, its a mans world after all:)))
                                  > I
                                  > > am
                                  > > going to make myself submissive when I come back
                                  > as
                                  > > a
                                  > > man...it's all gonna be 'yesm' :)
                                  > >
                                  > > d

                                  Frank:
                                  > You ain't gonna have no choice, honey. By that time
                                  > the women (us) will be ruling the world and 20th
                                  > century MArgaret Thatcher and Evita will seem like
                                  > kindergaten teachers.
                                  >
                                  > f


                                  Oh boy, oh boy oh boy, well, it is said that I have
                                  been a female in all my incarnations, although I do
                                  recall one male warrior, so maybe I shall luck out and
                                  be a female again??? Prokofieff says that the ones who
                                  will be born as females will be blessed to be born so.
                                  I am thinking, I am thinking, that maybe as women are
                                  the best 'thinking warriors', if I am male, I will be
                                  able to protect your honor in the next:) He says that
                                  as well will be something really important for the
                                  girls: that the men create a space of holiness for the
                                  women. I can do that, look for me will ya:)

                                  d




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                                • Frank Smith
                                  ... Right, and you look for me - and I WON T be wearin pants. f Frank Thomas Smith http://SouthernCrossReview.org __________________________________ Yahoo! for
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Dec 29, 2005
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                                    --- dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

                                    > Oh boy, oh boy oh boy, well, it is said that I have
                                    > been a female in all my incarnations, although I do
                                    > recall one male warrior, so maybe I shall luck out
                                    > and
                                    > be a female again??? Prokofieff says that the ones
                                    > who
                                    > will be born as females will be blessed to be born
                                    > so.
                                    > I am thinking, I am thinking, that maybe as women
                                    > are
                                    > the best 'thinking warriors', if I am male, I will
                                    > be
                                    > able to protect your honor in the next:) He says
                                    > that
                                    > as well will be something really important for the
                                    > girls: that the men create a space of holiness for
                                    > the
                                    > women. I can do that, look for me will ya:)
                                    >
                                    > d
                                    >
                                    Right, and you look for me - and I WON'T be wearin
                                    pants.
                                    f



                                    Frank Thomas Smith
                                    http://SouthernCrossReview.org




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                                  • dottie zold
                                    ... You re gonna exploit that to the farthest aren t you? miininininnini I can see it now, whew. it ll take an army to protect your holiness :))) d happy new
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Dec 29, 2005
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                                      d:
                                      > > I am thinking, I am thinking, that maybe as women
                                      > > are
                                      > > the best 'thinking warriors', if I am male, I will
                                      > > be
                                      > > able to protect your honor in the next:) He says
                                      > > that
                                      > > as well will be something really important for the
                                      > > girls: that the men create a space of holiness for
                                      > > the
                                      > > women. I can do that, look for me will ya:)

                                      f:
                                      > Right, and you look for me - and I WON'T be wearin
                                      > pants.

                                      You're gonna exploit that to the farthest aren't you?
                                      miininininnini I can see it now, whew. it'll take an
                                      army to protect your holiness :))) d happy new year to
                                      you too friend:) may it be a most magnificent one for
                                      all of us!



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                                    • dottie zold
                                      Okay Xandor, now check this out: (...) The it says: Gabriel then tore me away like a leaf stripped by a storm and placed me before the Lord. Michael takes
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Dec 29, 2005
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                                        Okay Xandor, now check this out:

                                        "(...) The it says: 'Gabriel then tore me away like a
                                        leaf stripped by a storm and placed me before the
                                        Lord.'

                                        Michael takes off Enoch's earthly garments and robes
                                        him in glory. And then Enoch has to inscribe all that
                                        was revealed to him in books fragrant with myrrh, 'all
                                        things in heaven, upon the earth and in the sea, the
                                        courses and places of all the elements, the seasons,
                                        the days' courses and changes, the commandments and
                                        teachings.

                                        Finally, he is directed to take the three hundred and
                                        sixty books to mankind, 'as the intercessor of my
                                        commander Michael; for thy handwriting and that of
                                        they father Adam and Seth will not be destroyed until
                                        the end of time.'

                                        Dottie:

                                        I am really feeling this whole 'my commander Michael'
                                        and his being the intercessor and also his being
                                        'robed by Michael'. I'm thinking Raphael, yeah, I'm
                                        thinking the ascension to the Sun sphere if it be true
                                        that Raphael takes over for Michael as it has been
                                        found lately. What do you think of that? And if we
                                        take into consideration also that he is apart of what
                                        is considered the 'second Adam' we would have the
                                        Nathan Soul, the Sophia and the Raphael in one body
                                        which would also be able to hook up with the
                                        Baptizer:)

                                        And earlier in the book we find this:

                                        " Behind the name Enoch, we sense a lofty divine-human
                                        individuality, a leader of men, who guided and taught
                                        mankind through long eras of time. He was either
                                        incarnated himself, or inspired his followers and
                                        successors from out of the spiritual world. The
                                        abundant apocryphal traditions dealing with him
                                        contain a touching personal colouring. Still, in those
                                        ancient tales of Enoch, descriptions of an individual
                                        destiny intermingled with imaginations of a common
                                        fate. Human and superhuman elements meet in human
                                        images.

                                        Enoch is described as representing an important new
                                        beginning. It says that until the days of his father
                                        Jared, the angels themselves descended from heaven to
                                        guide mankind on its path. Then, Enoch, who had
                                        dedicated himself in seclusion to the 'divine life, to
                                        dialog with God, for a long time far from men, was
                                        called to go forth to humanity, and to assume the
                                        office of angel among them.

                                        Enoch had to leave the restricted realm of the
                                        mysteries. Human leaders had to continue to direct
                                        divine guidance. Starting with Enoch, human initiates
                                        began to guide humanity's destinies. In pictures
                                        gleaned from much later earth conditions, the legend
                                        looks back into the distant past:

                                        "The spirit of God hovered over Enoch, and he
                                        instructed men in the wisdom of the Lord and showed
                                        them his ways. Men also served the Lord all the days
                                        that Enoch was among them, and all came to listen to
                                        his wisdom. All the kings of men, the first as well as
                                        the last, and their princes and judges, came to Enoch
                                        when they heard his wisdom, and prostrated themselves
                                        on the ground before him."

                                        (...) Then the times that he spent in seclusion grew
                                        longer and longer. And when he reappeared among me,
                                        the traces of divine life that shone on his
                                        countenance like rays of light became more and more
                                        powerful. At first he still appeared to men one day a
                                        week; then one day in the month; and finally one day a
                                        year, 'until all kings and princes and all human
                                        beings longed to behold Enoch's face and hear his
                                        words'. But the greater their yearning for Enoch's
                                        countenance, the less could human beings endure the
                                        sight of the ever more brilliant light. Many died from
                                        the light, and finally only listeners with eyes cast
                                        down upon the earth gathered around the one who came
                                        more and more rarely.

                                        Then Enoch became detached by one more degree from
                                        me.And angle assigned him to be a leader and teacher
                                        among celestial beings as he was hitherto among men.
                                        Once more, he powerfully addressed the people gathered
                                        around. His bequest to them was a lofty teaching of
                                        peace. 'And it came about as the people sat around
                                        Enoch and he spoke to them, they raised their eyes and
                                        saw the form of a horse descending from heaven, and
                                        the horse came down to earth in a tempest.

                                        Enoch mounted the horse and rode away. The crowd
                                        followed him, but day after day some remained behind
                                        until only a few were left who could follow him. 'On
                                        the seventh day it happened that Enoch drove to heaven
                                        in the tempest in a fiery chariot with fiery horses.'
                                        The group of the surviving faithful was found dead in
                                        the snow of the high mountains."

                                        Dottie: Isn't this just amazing? really. It's
                                        interesting to me because it calls to mind also my man
                                        Babaji. I saw Him ascending in the clouds on a horse.
                                        I mean just like what is being said about Enoch. And
                                        it was in a cloud formation like how it says a
                                        'tempest'.

                                        d




                                        > Yeah, it feels like something moves closer: Genesis
                                        > Emil Bock
                                        >
                                        > 'The apocryphal writings touch upon the deepest
                                        > mysteries concerning the figure of Enoch, where they
                                        > designate him as the bearer of the being whom Paul
                                        > later called 'the second Adam'.
                                        >
                                        > "The light of the loftiest soul, which flew away
                                        > from
                                        > Adam when he was driven from the garden of Eden,
                                        > ascended again and was preserved in a treasure
                                        > chamber until Enoch was to come. Then this highest
                                        > light of the holy soul came into Enoch, and Enoch
                                        > attained to the same greatness that Adam possessed
                                        > before the Fall."
                                        >
                                        > XANDOR!, what is that exactly saying? do you know? I
                                        > mean, well, what does that say to you? d
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > Well, Emil Bock is amazing. So we find he connects
                                        > > Manu-Noah to the first 'healer' of the world. That
                                        > > as
                                        > > man began his physical humanness there was a
                                        > greater
                                        > > call for healing.
                                        > >
                                        > > " The most profound reference to the secret of the
                                        > > Noah figure is, however, the name given him by all
                                        > > traditions, 'Menahem', usually translated as
                                        > > 'comforter'. This name also becomes apparent in
                                        > the
                                        > > interpretation of the Old Testament gives of the
                                        > > word
                                        > > Noah: 'He (Lamech) became the father of a son and
                                        > > called his name Noah, saying, 'Out of the ground
                                        > > which
                                        > > the Lord has cursed this one shall bring us relief
                                        > > (comfort) from our work and from the toil of our
                                        > > hands."' (Gen. 5:29). Menahem is the Hebrew word
                                        > for
                                        > > the Greek ......, 'the Paraclete'. The words of
                                        > > Christ, according to St. John, which promise the
                                        > > coming of the 'Councilor'. But Menahem or
                                        > Paraclete
                                        > > is
                                        > > more than a comforter or of the Holy Spirit
                                        > through
                                        > > the name Manahem. Like the dove, which spiritually
                                        > > appeared at the Baptism in the Jordan as the image
                                        > > of
                                        > > the being overshadowing Jesus of Jesus of
                                        > Nazareth,
                                        > > the dove that brought the olive branch was the
                                        > image
                                        > > of an actual spiritual figure hovering over Noah.
                                        > > For
                                        > > this reason, the dove over the receding waters of
                                        > > the
                                        > > Flood was always perceived by ancient imaginative
                                        > > theology as an analogy and prophecy of the dove
                                        > over
                                        > > the waters of the Jordan.
                                        > >
                                        > > From Seth and Enoch, the Book of Adam goes to
                                        > Noah.
                                        > > He
                                        > > was the figure o the continuation of the primal
                                        > > revelation. One thing becomes clear through all
                                        > the
                                        > > traditions: Noah was to guide the stream of
                                        > > revelation
                                        > > in a certain direction. The first point that is
                                        > > depicted as an essential part of the teaching
                                        > which
                                        > > Noah imparted to humanity from the holy book arose
                                        > > from the new condition of the cosmos, since now
                                        > the
                                        > > clearly observable rhythms of the stars and of the
                                        > > time emerged: it was the start of a knowledge of
                                        > > numbers, proportions and measures.
                                        > >
                                        > > "Noah learned from Adam... the true art of
                                        > counting
                                        > > and took over from him the book of the signs, the
                                        > > book
                                        > > of knowledge of the stars...This book was written
                                        > on
                                        > > a
                                        > > sapphire stone, clearly and distinctly, and from
                                        > it
                                        > > Noah learned to know the work of the miracles as
                                        > > well
                                        > > as the secrets and treasures of reason...so that
                                        > he
                                        > > was now capable of fathoming the stages of the
                                        > upper
                                        > > regions, to roam through all seven spheres and
                                        > > circle
                                        > > all the planets. He could observe their paths and
                                        > > explore the course of the moon, as well as the
                                        > paths
                                        > > of Aldebaran, Orion and Sirius. Noah knew the name
                                        > > of
                                        > > each heaven and what its function consisted of."
                                        > >
                                        > > The second part of Noah's teaching was related to
                                        > > the
                                        > > new condition of human nature:
                                        > >
                                        > > " The ancient sages copied a book about the art of
                                        > > healing from a book...which had been transmitted
                                        > to
                                        > > Noah after the Flood...God sent one of his angels
                                        > by
                                        > > the name of Raphael...and the angel revealed to
                                        > Noah
                                        > >
                                        > > the remedies that heal sickness, and showed him
                                        > the
                                        > > medicines to be taken from trees, herb, and
                                        > > roots...From this book, the first sages gathered
                                        > > their
                                        > > knowledge and then wrote many books on healing,
                                        > each
                                        > > in his own tongue. Thus the art of healing spread
                                        > to
                                        > > all peoples of the earth; the sages from India,
                                        > from
                                        > > Macedonia and from Egypt all made use of it."
                                        > >
                                        > > The origin of medical art presupposes the spread
                                        > of
                                        > > disease. Noah could become the inaugurator of the
                                        > > art
                                        > > of healing, the Asclepius of mankind, for, after
                                        > > death
                                        > > had become a reality, illness also invaded
                                        > mankind.
                                        > > The cosmos cleared, and human consciousness also
                                        > > filled with clarity and wake fullness, but man
                                        > lost
                                        > > his cosmic powers. He became weak in order to be
                                        > > able
                                        > > to become free. The yet unfree man of sleepfilled
                                        > > ancient times required healing no more than does
                                        > the
                                        > > plant kingdom. But the freer he became, the more
                                        > man
                                        > > was in need of help and healing, the more he
                                        > > required
                                        > > the helping healer. Through the primeval wisdom
                                        > that
                                        > > permeated him and the healing spirit hovering over
                                        > > him, Noah was the first healer of humanity.'
                                        > >
                                        > > Dottie:
                                        > >
                                        > > Now a few things come to me and I am wondering who
                                        > > was
                                        > > Tobiah's father who was blind? Also, I find it
                                        > > extraordinary interesting that it is said that
                                        > Noah
                                        > > married the 'daughter of Enoch'. And that Enoch
                                        > had
                                        > > three daughters and seven sons and this is all
                                        > > applied
                                        > > to the Tree of the Kabbalah. I mean I find that to
                                        > > be
                                        > > astounding. Who is this Enoch? Well, whoever he
                                        > is,
                                        > > and I still have a bit more to read in this book
                                        > > Genesis by Emil Bock, he is connected clearly to
                                        > > Adam
                                        > > and to Noah. And he is connected to Manu who is
                                        > > connected to Zarathustra. He says that Noah was
                                        > the
                                        > > tenth after Adam and that Enoch was the seventh.
                                        > And
                                        > > then we head up to Moses by the very designation
                                        > > that
                                        > > 'both Noah's ark and Moses' basket of bulrushes
                                        > with
                                        > > one and the same word, 'tebbah'.
                                        > >
                                        > > So I think I can find Enoch Manu Noah Zarathustra
                                        > > Raphael......
                                        > >
                                        > > Whew,
                                        > > d
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > __________________________________
                                        > > Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
                                        >
                                        === message truncated ===





                                        __________________________________
                                        Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
                                        http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
                                      • dottie zold
                                        In pictures ... See, doesn t this call to mind Solomon? This seems to be the one that the Queen of Sheba comes to meet. d
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Dec 29, 2005
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                                          In pictures
                                          > gleaned from much later earth conditions, the legend
                                          > looks back into the distant past:
                                          >
                                          > "The spirit of God hovered over Enoch, and he
                                          > instructed men in the wisdom of the Lord and showed
                                          > them his ways. Men also served the Lord all the days
                                          > that Enoch was among them, and all came to listen to
                                          > his wisdom. All the kings of men, the first as well
                                          > as
                                          > the last, and their princes and judges, came to
                                          > Enoch
                                          > when they heard his wisdom, and prostrated
                                          > themselves
                                          > on the ground before him."

                                          See, doesn't this call to mind Solomon? This seems to
                                          be the one that the Queen of Sheba comes to meet.

                                          d



                                          __________________________________________
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                                        • adm_anthroposophia
                                          but D, who has written this stuff. The first part about genesis and healing is from Emil Bock. But this text about Enoch. Who wrote this? The piece about
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Dec 30, 2005
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                                            but D, who has written this stuff. The first part about genesis and
                                            healing is from Emil Bock. But this text about Enoch. Who wrote this?

                                            The piece about genesis and the first healer I find very interesting.
                                            You ask me what I think of it. Well, I can think a lot of it, though I
                                            have conscious bond with Emil Bock yet to accept all of his words. But
                                            it are words that clarify a lot of what we have been diggin for. Then
                                            again, what we have been digging for has not been that obvious. So
                                            Emil writing this stuff should mean that he was inspired to do so.

                                            X

                                            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
                                            <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Okay Xandor, now check this out:
                                            >
                                            > "(...) The it says: 'Gabriel then tore me away like a
                                            > leaf stripped by a storm and placed me before the
                                            > Lord.'
                                            >
                                            > Michael takes off Enoch's earthly garments and robes
                                            > him in glory. And then Enoch has to inscribe all that
                                            > was revealed to him in books fragrant with myrrh, 'all
                                            > things in heaven, upon the earth and in the sea, the
                                            > courses and places of all the elements, the seasons,
                                            > the days' courses and changes, the commandments and
                                            > teachings.
                                            >
                                            > Finally, he is directed to take the three hundred and
                                            > sixty books to mankind, 'as the intercessor of my
                                            > commander Michael; for thy handwriting and that of
                                            > they father Adam and Seth will not be destroyed until
                                            > the end of time.'
                                            >
                                            > Dottie:
                                            >
                                            > I am really feeling this whole 'my commander Michael'
                                            > and his being the intercessor and also his being
                                            > 'robed by Michael'. I'm thinking Raphael, yeah, I'm
                                            > thinking the ascension to the Sun sphere if it be true
                                            > that Raphael takes over for Michael as it has been
                                            > found lately. What do you think of that? And if we
                                            > take into consideration also that he is apart of what
                                            > is considered the 'second Adam' we would have the
                                            > Nathan Soul, the Sophia and the Raphael in one body
                                            > which would also be able to hook up with the
                                            > Baptizer:)
                                            >
                                            > And earlier in the book we find this:
                                            >
                                            > " Behind the name Enoch, we sense a lofty divine-human
                                            > individuality, a leader of men, who guided and taught
                                            > mankind through long eras of time. He was either
                                            > incarnated himself, or inspired his followers and
                                            > successors from out of the spiritual world. The
                                            > abundant apocryphal traditions dealing with him
                                            > contain a touching personal colouring. Still, in those
                                            > ancient tales of Enoch, descriptions of an individual
                                            > destiny intermingled with imaginations of a common
                                            > fate. Human and superhuman elements meet in human
                                            > images.
                                            >
                                            > Enoch is described as representing an important new
                                            > beginning. It says that until the days of his father
                                            > Jared, the angels themselves descended from heaven to
                                            > guide mankind on its path. Then, Enoch, who had
                                            > dedicated himself in seclusion to the 'divine life, to
                                            > dialog with God, for a long time far from men, was
                                            > called to go forth to humanity, and to assume the
                                            > office of angel among them.
                                            >
                                            > Enoch had to leave the restricted realm of the
                                            > mysteries. Human leaders had to continue to direct
                                            > divine guidance. Starting with Enoch, human initiates
                                            > began to guide humanity's destinies. In pictures
                                            > gleaned from much later earth conditions, the legend
                                            > looks back into the distant past:
                                            >
                                            > "The spirit of God hovered over Enoch, and he
                                            > instructed men in the wisdom of the Lord and showed
                                            > them his ways. Men also served the Lord all the days
                                            > that Enoch was among them, and all came to listen to
                                            > his wisdom. All the kings of men, the first as well as
                                            > the last, and their princes and judges, came to Enoch
                                            > when they heard his wisdom, and prostrated themselves
                                            > on the ground before him."
                                            >
                                            > (...) Then the times that he spent in seclusion grew
                                            > longer and longer. And when he reappeared among me,
                                            > the traces of divine life that shone on his
                                            > countenance like rays of light became more and more
                                            > powerful. At first he still appeared to men one day a
                                            > week; then one day in the month; and finally one day a
                                            > year, 'until all kings and princes and all human
                                            > beings longed to behold Enoch's face and hear his
                                            > words'. But the greater their yearning for Enoch's
                                            > countenance, the less could human beings endure the
                                            > sight of the ever more brilliant light. Many died from
                                            > the light, and finally only listeners with eyes cast
                                            > down upon the earth gathered around the one who came
                                            > more and more rarely.
                                            >
                                            > Then Enoch became detached by one more degree from
                                            > me.And angle assigned him to be a leader and teacher
                                            > among celestial beings as he was hitherto among men.
                                            > Once more, he powerfully addressed the people gathered
                                            > around. His bequest to them was a lofty teaching of
                                            > peace. 'And it came about as the people sat around
                                            > Enoch and he spoke to them, they raised their eyes and
                                            > saw the form of a horse descending from heaven, and
                                            > the horse came down to earth in a tempest.
                                            >
                                            > Enoch mounted the horse and rode away. The crowd
                                            > followed him, but day after day some remained behind
                                            > until only a few were left who could follow him. 'On
                                            > the seventh day it happened that Enoch drove to heaven
                                            > in the tempest in a fiery chariot with fiery horses.'
                                            > The group of the surviving faithful was found dead in
                                            > the snow of the high mountains."
                                            >
                                            > Dottie: Isn't this just amazing? really. It's
                                            > interesting to me because it calls to mind also my man
                                            > Babaji. I saw Him ascending in the clouds on a horse.
                                            > I mean just like what is being said about Enoch. And
                                            > it was in a cloud formation like how it says a
                                            > 'tempest'.
                                            >
                                            > d
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > > Yeah, it feels like something moves closer: Genesis
                                            > > Emil Bock
                                            > >
                                            > > 'The apocryphal writings touch upon the deepest
                                            > > mysteries concerning the figure of Enoch, where they
                                            > > designate him as the bearer of the being whom Paul
                                            > > later called 'the second Adam'.
                                            > >
                                            > > "The light of the loftiest soul, which flew away
                                            > > from
                                            > > Adam when he was driven from the garden of Eden,
                                            > > ascended again and was preserved in a treasure
                                            > > chamber until Enoch was to come. Then this highest
                                            > > light of the holy soul came into Enoch, and Enoch
                                            > > attained to the same greatness that Adam possessed
                                            > > before the Fall."
                                            > >
                                            > > XANDOR!, what is that exactly saying? do you know? I
                                            > > mean, well, what does that say to you? d
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > > Well, Emil Bock is amazing. So we find he connects
                                            > > > Manu-Noah to the first 'healer' of the world. That
                                            > > > as
                                            > > > man began his physical humanness there was a
                                            > > greater
                                            > > > call for healing.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > " The most profound reference to the secret of the
                                            > > > Noah figure is, however, the name given him by all
                                            > > > traditions, 'Menahem', usually translated as
                                            > > > 'comforter'. This name also becomes apparent in
                                            > > the
                                            > > > interpretation of the Old Testament gives of the
                                            > > > word
                                            > > > Noah: 'He (Lamech) became the father of a son and
                                            > > > called his name Noah, saying, 'Out of the ground
                                            > > > which
                                            > > > the Lord has cursed this one shall bring us relief
                                            > > > (comfort) from our work and from the toil of our
                                            > > > hands."' (Gen. 5:29). Menahem is the Hebrew word
                                            > > for
                                            > > > the Greek ......, 'the Paraclete'. The words of
                                            > > > Christ, according to St. John, which promise the
                                            > > > coming of the 'Councilor'. But Menahem or
                                            > > Paraclete
                                            > > > is
                                            > > > more than a comforter or of the Holy Spirit
                                            > > through
                                            > > > the name Manahem. Like the dove, which spiritually
                                            > > > appeared at the Baptism in the Jordan as the image
                                            > > > of
                                            > > > the being overshadowing Jesus of Jesus of
                                            > > Nazareth,
                                            > > > the dove that brought the olive branch was the
                                            > > image
                                            > > > of an actual spiritual figure hovering over Noah.
                                            > > > For
                                            > > > this reason, the dove over the receding waters of
                                            > > > the
                                            > > > Flood was always perceived by ancient imaginative
                                            > > > theology as an analogy and prophecy of the dove
                                            > > over
                                            > > > the waters of the Jordan.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > From Seth and Enoch, the Book of Adam goes to
                                            > > Noah.
                                            > > > He
                                            > > > was the figure o the continuation of the primal
                                            > > > revelation. One thing becomes clear through all
                                            > > the
                                            > > > traditions: Noah was to guide the stream of
                                            > > > revelation
                                            > > > in a certain direction. The first point that is
                                            > > > depicted as an essential part of the teaching
                                            > > which
                                            > > > Noah imparted to humanity from the holy book arose
                                            > > > from the new condition of the cosmos, since now
                                            > > the
                                            > > > clearly observable rhythms of the stars and of the
                                            > > > time emerged: it was the start of a knowledge of
                                            > > > numbers, proportions and measures.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > "Noah learned from Adam... the true art of
                                            > > counting
                                            > > > and took over from him the book of the signs, the
                                            > > > book
                                            > > > of knowledge of the stars...This book was written
                                            > > on
                                            > > > a
                                            > > > sapphire stone, clearly and distinctly, and from
                                            > > it
                                            > > > Noah learned to know the work of the miracles as
                                            > > > well
                                            > > > as the secrets and treasures of reason...so that
                                            > > he
                                            > > > was now capable of fathoming the stages of the
                                            > > upper
                                            > > > regions, to roam through all seven spheres and
                                            > > > circle
                                            > > > all the planets. He could observe their paths and
                                            > > > explore the course of the moon, as well as the
                                            > > paths
                                            > > > of Aldebaran, Orion and Sirius. Noah knew the name
                                            > > > of
                                            > > > each heaven and what its function consisted of."
                                            > > >
                                            > > > The second part of Noah's teaching was related to
                                            > > > the
                                            > > > new condition of human nature:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > " The ancient sages copied a book about the art of
                                            > > > healing from a book...which had been transmitted
                                            > > to
                                            > > > Noah after the Flood...God sent one of his angels
                                            > > by
                                            > > > the name of Raphael...and the angel revealed to
                                            > > Noah
                                            > > >
                                            > > > the remedies that heal sickness, and showed him
                                            > > the
                                            > > > medicines to be taken from trees, herb, and
                                            > > > roots...From this book, the first sages gathered
                                            > > > their
                                            > > > knowledge and then wrote many books on healing,
                                            > > each
                                            > > > in his own tongue. Thus the art of healing spread
                                            > > to
                                            > > > all peoples of the earth; the sages from India,
                                            > > from
                                            > > > Macedonia and from Egypt all made use of it."
                                            > > >
                                            > > > The origin of medical art presupposes the spread
                                            > > of
                                            > > > disease. Noah could become the inaugurator of the
                                            > > > art
                                            > > > of healing, the Asclepius of mankind, for, after
                                            > > > death
                                            > > > had become a reality, illness also invaded
                                            > > mankind.
                                            > > > The cosmos cleared, and human consciousness also
                                            > > > filled with clarity and wake fullness, but man
                                            > > lost
                                            > > > his cosmic powers. He became weak in order to be
                                            > > > able
                                            > > > to become free. The yet unfree man of sleepfilled
                                            > > > ancient times required healing no more than does
                                            > > the
                                            > > > plant kingdom. But the freer he became, the more
                                            > > man
                                            > > > was in need of help and healing, the more he
                                            > > > required
                                            > > > the helping healer. Through the primeval wisdom
                                            > > that
                                            > > > permeated him and the healing spirit hovering over
                                            > > > him, Noah was the first healer of humanity.'
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Dottie:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Now a few things come to me and I am wondering who
                                            > > > was
                                            > > > Tobiah's father who was blind? Also, I find it
                                            > > > extraordinary interesting that it is said that
                                            > > Noah
                                            > > > married the 'daughter of Enoch'. And that Enoch
                                            > > had
                                            > > > three daughters and seven sons and this is all
                                            > > > applied
                                            > > > to the Tree of the Kabbalah. I mean I find that to
                                            > > > be
                                            > > > astounding. Who is this Enoch? Well, whoever he
                                            > > is,
                                            > > > and I still have a bit more to read in this book
                                            > > > Genesis by Emil Bock, he is connected clearly to
                                            > > > Adam
                                            > > > and to Noah. And he is connected to Manu who is
                                            > > > connected to Zarathustra. He says that Noah was
                                            > > the
                                            > > > tenth after Adam and that Enoch was the seventh.
                                            > > And
                                            > > > then we head up to Moses by the very designation
                                            > > > that
                                            > > > 'both Noah's ark and Moses' basket of bulrushes
                                            > > with
                                            > > > one and the same word, 'tebbah'.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > So I think I can find Enoch Manu Noah Zarathustra
                                            > > > Raphael......
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Whew,
                                            > > > d
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > __________________________________
                                            > > > Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
                                            > >
                                            > === message truncated ===
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > __________________________________
                                            > Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
                                            > http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
                                            >
                                          • dottie zold
                                            ... The non quotes are from Emil Bock and the quoted things are from either the Book of Adam or the Book of Enoch. It seems that these books were used from the
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Dec 30, 2005
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                                              Xandor:
                                              > but D, who has written this stuff. The first part
                                              > about genesis and
                                              > healing is from Emil Bock. But this text about
                                              > Enoch. Who wrote this?

                                              The non quotes are from Emil Bock and the quoted
                                              things are from either the Book of Adam or the Book of
                                              Enoch. It seems that these books were used from the
                                              very early days of Christianity and are actually
                                              almost one and the same books. It is said in here that
                                              the Book of Enoch is a variation of the Book of Adam.
                                              Also this term is regulary found in the notes: Gorion,
                                              Sagen der Juden. Can you tell me what that means?

                                              And I misspoke it came to me about Enochs sons and
                                              daughters in relation to the Kabbala, it is actually a
                                              reference to Job and his seven sons and three
                                              daughters that speak to the ten sephiroth of the
                                              members of mans being.

                                              There is a phenominal reckoning of Jobs trials with
                                              those of Amfortas if you would like me to bring it
                                              forth. It really helps to show, I think how it is that
                                              Enoch is the one who knows the answers to God's
                                              questions proffered to Job. Well, for me, it shed new
                                              light on this story in the good book.

                                              X:
                                              > The piece about genesis and the first healer I find
                                              > very interesting.
                                              > You ask me what I think of it. Well, I can think a
                                              > lot of it, though I
                                              > have conscious bond with Emil Bock yet to accept all
                                              > of his words. But
                                              > it are words that clarify a lot of what we have been
                                              > diggin for. Then
                                              > again, what we have been digging for has not been
                                              > that obvious. So
                                              > Emil writing this stuff should mean that he was
                                              > inspired to do so.

                                              Well, maybe you do not have time with the new year
                                              celebrations and such but maybe next week you can look
                                              at the quote pertaining to the 'second Adam' that is
                                              the one I am interested in.

                                              d





                                              > > Okay Xandor, now check this out:
                                              > >
                                              > > "(...) The it says: 'Gabriel then tore me away
                                              > like a
                                              > > leaf stripped by a storm and placed me before the
                                              > > Lord.'
                                              > >
                                              > > Michael takes off Enoch's earthly garments and
                                              > robes
                                              > > him in glory. And then Enoch has to inscribe all
                                              > that
                                              > > was revealed to him in books fragrant with myrrh,
                                              > 'all
                                              > > things in heaven, upon the earth and in the sea,
                                              > the
                                              > > courses and places of all the elements, the
                                              > seasons,
                                              > > the days' courses and changes, the commandments
                                              > and
                                              > > teachings.
                                              > >
                                              > > Finally, he is directed to take the three hundred
                                              > and
                                              > > sixty books to mankind, 'as the intercessor of my
                                              > > commander Michael; for thy handwriting and that of
                                              > > they father Adam and Seth will not be destroyed
                                              > until
                                              > > the end of time.'
                                              > >
                                              > > Dottie:
                                              > >
                                              > > I am really feeling this whole 'my commander
                                              > Michael'
                                              > > and his being the intercessor and also his being
                                              > > 'robed by Michael'. I'm thinking Raphael, yeah,
                                              > I'm
                                              > > thinking the ascension to the Sun sphere if it be
                                              > true
                                              > > that Raphael takes over for Michael as it has been
                                              > > found lately. What do you think of that? And if we
                                              > > take into consideration also that he is apart of
                                              > what
                                              > > is considered the 'second Adam' we would have the
                                              > > Nathan Soul, the Sophia and the Raphael in one
                                              > body
                                              > > which would also be able to hook up with the
                                              > > Baptizer:)
                                              > >
                                              > > And earlier in the book we find this:
                                              > >
                                              > > " Behind the name Enoch, we sense a lofty
                                              > divine-human
                                              > > individuality, a leader of men, who guided and
                                              > taught
                                              > > mankind through long eras of time. He was either
                                              > > incarnated himself, or inspired his followers and
                                              > > successors from out of the spiritual world. The
                                              > > abundant apocryphal traditions dealing with him
                                              > > contain a touching personal colouring. Still, in
                                              > those
                                              > > ancient tales of Enoch, descriptions of an
                                              > individual
                                              > > destiny intermingled with imaginations of a common
                                              > > fate. Human and superhuman elements meet in human
                                              > > images.
                                              > >
                                              > > Enoch is described as representing an important
                                              > new
                                              > > beginning. It says that until the days of his
                                              > father
                                              > > Jared, the angels themselves descended from heaven
                                              > to
                                              > > guide mankind on its path. Then, Enoch, who had
                                              > > dedicated himself in seclusion to the 'divine
                                              > life, to
                                              > > dialog with God, for a long time far from men, was
                                              > > called to go forth to humanity, and to assume the
                                              > > office of angel among them.
                                              > >
                                              > > Enoch had to leave the restricted realm of the
                                              > > mysteries. Human leaders had to continue to direct
                                              > > divine guidance. Starting with Enoch, human
                                              > initiates
                                              > > began to guide humanity's destinies. In pictures
                                              > > gleaned from much later earth conditions, the
                                              > legend
                                              > > looks back into the distant past:
                                              > >
                                              > > "The spirit of God hovered over Enoch, and he
                                              > > instructed men in the wisdom of the Lord and
                                              > showed
                                              > > them his ways. Men also served the Lord all the
                                              > days
                                              > > that Enoch was among them, and all came to listen
                                              > to
                                              > > his wisdom. All the kings of men, the first as
                                              > well as
                                              > > the last, and their princes and judges, came to
                                              > Enoch
                                              > > when they heard his wisdom, and prostrated
                                              > themselves
                                              > > on the ground before him."
                                              > >
                                              > > (...) Then the times that he spent in seclusion
                                              > grew
                                              > > longer and longer. And when he reappeared among
                                              > me,
                                              > > the traces of divine life that shone on his
                                              > > countenance like rays of light became more and
                                              > more
                                              > > powerful. At first he still appeared to men one
                                              > day a
                                              > > week; then one day in the month; and finally one
                                              > day a
                                              > > year, 'until all kings and princes and all human
                                              > > beings longed to behold Enoch's face and hear his
                                              > > words'. But the greater their yearning for Enoch's
                                              > > countenance, the less could human beings endure
                                              > the
                                              > > sight of the ever more brilliant light. Many died
                                              > from
                                              > > the light, and finally only listeners with eyes
                                              > cast
                                              > > down upon the earth gathered around the one who
                                              > came
                                              > > more and more rarely.
                                              > >
                                              > > Then Enoch became detached by one more degree from
                                              > > me.And angle assigned him to be a leader and
                                              > teacher
                                              > > among celestial beings as he was hitherto among
                                              > men.
                                              > > Once more, he powerfully addressed the people
                                              > gathered
                                              > > around. His bequest to them was a lofty teaching
                                              > of
                                              > > peace. 'And it came about as the people sat around
                                              > > Enoch and he spoke to them, they raised their eyes
                                              > and
                                              > > saw the form of a horse descending from heaven,
                                              > and
                                              > > the horse came down to earth in a tempest.
                                              > >
                                              > > Enoch mounted the horse and rode away. The crowd
                                              > > followed him, but day after day some remained
                                              > behind
                                              > > until only a few were left who could follow him.
                                              > 'On
                                              > > the seventh day it happened that Enoch drove to
                                              > heaven
                                              > > in the tempest in a fiery chariot with fiery
                                              > horses.'
                                              > > The group of the surviving faithful was found dead
                                              > in
                                              > > the snow of the high mountains."
                                              > >
                                              > > Dottie: Isn't this just amazing? really. It's
                                              > > interesting to me because it calls to mind also my
                                              > man
                                              > > Babaji. I saw Him ascending in the clouds on a
                                              > horse.
                                              > > I mean just like what is being said about Enoch.
                                              > And
                                              > > it was in a cloud formation like how it says a
                                              > > 'tempest'.
                                              > >
                                              > > d
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > > Yeah, it feels like something moves closer:
                                              > Genesis
                                              > > > Emil Bock
                                              > > >
                                              > > > 'The apocryphal writings touch upon the deepest
                                              > > > mysteries concerning the figure of Enoch, where
                                              > they
                                              >
                                              === message truncated ===





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                                            • dottie zold
                                              ... You are right it is that we have found words verses the experience of it but I think this is how it must work. We are looking at Lemurian times as well as
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Dec 30, 2005
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                                                X:
                                                > You ask me what I think of it. Well, I can think a
                                                > lot of it, though I
                                                > have conscious bond with Emil Bock yet to accept all
                                                > of his words. But
                                                > it are words that clarify a lot of what we have been
                                                > diggin for. Then
                                                > again, what we have been digging for has not been
                                                > that obvious. So
                                                > Emil writing this stuff should mean that he was
                                                > inspired to do so.

                                                You are right it is that we have found words verses
                                                the experience of it but I think this is how it must
                                                work. We are looking at Lemurian times as well as the
                                                beginnings of Atlantean times and we have to find the
                                                roots of knowledge of these times. They are not
                                                readily apparent to us in our minds I think because so
                                                much time has passed. But I will tell you that from
                                                these the inspirations will come, because it will come
                                                from the esoteric to the esoteric in a way. This
                                                morning I woke up with knowing where the Pentagram is
                                                on the body. Now, that may have already been told and
                                                the whole world knows it, but I did not. And so then I
                                                am looking for the Tetragram as well.

                                                So, point being that if we sense into these words
                                                with all that we have already gathered we shall be
                                                treading the footsteps of the angels and their
                                                knowledge.

                                                My thoughts,
                                                d



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                                              • Frank Smith
                                                ... Won t need an army - you ll do. ... Right. Same to you and all. Frank Frank Thomas Smith http://SouthernCrossReview.org __________________________________
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Dec 30, 2005
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                                                  --- dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

                                                  > f:
                                                  > > Right, and you look for me - and I WON'T be wearin
                                                  > > pants.
                                                  >
                                                  d:
                                                  > You're gonna exploit that to the farthest aren't
                                                  > you?
                                                  > miininininnini I can see it now, whew. it'll take an
                                                  > army to protect your holiness :)))


                                                  Won't need an army - you'll do.

                                                  >happy new year to
                                                  > you too friend:) may it be a most magnificent one
                                                  > for
                                                  > all of us!

                                                  Right. Same to you and all.

                                                  Frank

                                                  Frank Thomas Smith
                                                  http://SouthernCrossReview.org




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                                                • dottie zold
                                                  Hey Xandor, It seems that this Sager der Juden which I think means stories of the jews...isn t this your language? Anyhow, this man I think can be traced back
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Dec 31, 2005
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                                                    Hey Xandor,

                                                    It seems that this Sager der Juden which I think means stories of the
                                                    jews...isn't this your language? Anyhow, this man I think can be
                                                    traced back to Josephus who brought the great book called The History
                                                    of the Jews in the early hundreds ad (?) Anyhow that was my
                                                    inspiration of him for some reason. It is he whom Emil Bock references
                                                    throughout his book Genesis. He is also considered the founder of the
                                                    Study of Jewish Folklore. He was born in 1865 and died in 1921 in or
                                                    around Germany. It's really interesting that he was trying to get his
                                                    people to look to a new way of being. Here is his biography. He seems
                                                    to have won the Jews over although they felt he was working the fence
                                                    so to dottie speak:)

                                                    u= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micha_Josef_Berdyczewski

                                                    d
                                                  • dottie zold
                                                    Hey Friends, I want to share the aspect of how Love works to being ennobled. I am further inspired to understand why I keep expressing that I am trying to
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Dec 31, 2005
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                                                      Hey Friends,

                                                      I want to share the aspect of how Love works to being
                                                      ennobled. I am further inspired to understand why I
                                                      keep expressing that I am trying to 'push up' to love
                                                      or to a higher understanding of love through my
                                                      relationships. I have been in this mode for about
                                                      seven years now, I guess as long as I have been
                                                      working with the mystery of the Feminine. But, yeah,
                                                      it is a pushing up of the feelings in a sense. I feel
                                                      the feeling of this 'love' stop right in the middle of
                                                      my chest, or maybe in the heart region if I consider
                                                      it closely. And when a thought comes over me and it is
                                                      of a human love feeling I literally almost use my
                                                      hands to pull it up in a way. Like I am trying to push
                                                      it up. But I never really thought of why I do that or
                                                      even what the heck I am doing. And now I get it
                                                      through reading a piece in the Correspondences and
                                                      Documents book pertaining to Rudolf Steiner and his
                                                      wife Marie.

                                                      " The development of this physical state in the three
                                                      kingdoms quoted in the task of the 'Spirits of Form'.
                                                      They transform the previous 'embryonic forms of the
                                                      senses' into truly 'formed' sense organs, particularly
                                                      in the highest kingdom, the animal kingdom. In all the
                                                      earlier physical states through which the human being
                                                      passed, the sense organ did not yet possess their set
                                                      form.

                                                      Because these organs have received a set form they
                                                      cease to be 'active', they lose their productivity,
                                                      they become purely passive, suitable only for the
                                                      perception of externally presented objects. The
                                                      productive forces withdraw from the sense organs; they
                                                      become more internalized and form the intellectual
                                                      organ. However, this organ cannot be formed without
                                                      again pushing down to a lower level a certain section
                                                      of man's fellow-beings. But instead, the human being
                                                      pushes a part of his own being into a lower region. He
                                                      separates out a part of his being as his own lower
                                                      nature. And this lower nature preserves the productive
                                                      forces which have been lost by the sense organs. The
                                                      productive force which has been pushed to his lower
                                                      level becomes the force of sexual reproduction as it
                                                      appears on Earth. The 'Spirits of Form' would freeze
                                                      all reproductive forces thus all life, which would
                                                      harden into pure form, if they did not concentrate
                                                      these forces in one part of the human being. That is
                                                      why the Spirits of Form created the sexes. Without
                                                      this, statues would be created, not living beings.

                                                      (...) The intellectual organ, although present, is
                                                      still completely inactive at that time. It is only
                                                      able to unfold its activity once the sexual
                                                      productive forces have been reduced by half, so that
                                                      each being is only in possession of half of its former
                                                      productive forces. This, then produces the two sexes.
                                                      ...The representative of the 'Spirits of Form' is
                                                      Jehovah. Thus he brings the formation of the sense
                                                      organs.

                                                      Dottie: So I guess what resonates within me is the
                                                      idea that we have pushed something lower, although
                                                      needed, it seems that something within me calls me to
                                                      pull this up once again. And it feels really physical
                                                      in a way in my own mind, and maybe it is in the way
                                                      that we are moving up to either a higher vibratory
                                                      level or that we are working towards the higher
                                                      chakras. And we can use this I guess in all parts of
                                                      our thinking selves, or that which allows us to purify
                                                      our thoughts actions and reactions.

                                                      My thoughts,
                                                      Dottie

                                                      p.s. And I tell you, what a pain in the ssssssss to
                                                      keep doing this. I mean it feels like that saying that
                                                      one has to drive oneself out of ones mind: we have to
                                                      move it higher. sheesh man its good to have a sense of
                                                      humor about these things, specially when someones
                                                      watching :) up up up

                                                      p.s.s but its also funny to understand when you hear
                                                      girls telling the boys to stop thinking with their
                                                      peepers.




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