Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: What Ails Thee?

Expand Messages
  • dottie zold
    Hi Ladies, I think for me, I feel an inner pain, which is where the question comes from. I find that when I ask this question it is out of what is hurting you
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 1, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Ladies,

      I think for me, I feel an inner pain, which is where the question
      comes from. I find that when I ask this question it is out of 'what
      is hurting you so much? Not really, 'what is wrong with you' but what
      is hurting you so much'? And then the next question for me
      becomes 'How can I help', 'Is there anything I can be of service
      too'? That' is how it feels in me. It is a heart question and not a
      mind question for me or a judgement one? Although I can see depending
      on the mindsets of both it could be taken either way.

      d


      > > Thanks for this, Val
      >
      > No, thank you Engimi! Of course you are right this was Parcival's
      > question because Parcival was a complete fool, as we all are,
      > being entertained in the castle, being too courteous (bound by
      > convention) to share his perception. He percieved something
      > was off, did he not? But he didn't ask. I was thinking about this
      > after I wrote it and in a way they are two sides of the same
      > question, what ails thee and what cures thee...if you look at it in
      > the sense of the question being what is missing-it's still a
      > question of what's lacking. The difference is that in asking what
      > would restore health and well-being I am assuming that there is
      > something that exists in reality that would, in fact, be available.
      > Be available if I asked the question.
      >
      > So I can look around me and ask "what's wrong with this picture"
      > and I can come up with quiet a few ideas. I think you're right-this
      > is what is going on in the world today-we are living in this world
      > of all these competing theories and people can get lost in them,
      > confused by them, and settle-settle for something that "sounds
      > reasonable". And they don't ask, we don't ask-not out of
      > convention in the honoring tradition sense but out of the context
      > of the answers just being too complex-out of in a sense the new
      > convention of our time-honoring specialization.
      >
      > Anyway, this is something I've been thinking a lot about lately-
      that
      > it might serve to ask what is needed by an individual rather than
      > what is wrong with them and again, like you said, it seems to
      > take the judgement aspect out of the conversation. On the other
      > hand, if you do this, you may find as I have that many people can't
      > tell you, don't know, themselves what their needs are.
      >
      > So now I'm going to tell a tell a tale out of school-something I
      > should not do, would not do-tattle on myself and my fellow
      > anthros but drastic times call for drastic measures and the truth
      > is this is the most dramatic illustration that I can think of-you
      > know makes for good copy.
      >
      > A few years back I was in a meeting and I can't remember what I
      > was bringing that was so infuriating but another member (an
      > anthroposophist) of the group was livid with me, wagging his
      > finger right in my face and spitting at me as he spoke he asked
      > why it was that he perceived that I was a conspiracy theorist. And
      > I said, I had no idea but that this raised a question for me." What
      > is it," I asked, "in your psyche that requires me to wear a black
      > hat so that you are able to wear the white hat?" And at this he
      > almost lept out of his chair, as he burst out with "I don't know,
      > WHAT?" This was a very sincere question-like he wanted to
      > know but I could only respond that I had no idea on that one
      > either-that that was his work to find out. Pretty much I batted the
      > big zero in this exchange.
      >
      > You know, us girls, how we have to sometimes process things
      > so I related this conversation to a good friend, also an
      > anthroposophist, and when I said he asked why he perceived
      > that I was a conspiracy theorist-she said "Well, because you
      > are". And then when I related his next question she asked-"Well,
      > didn't you just love him in that moment, wow don't you just love
      > him now?" And I said NO, I didn't love him in that moment-the
      > man had been spitting like a reptile in my face. And it has taken
      > me years to come to love this man. Years. Actually, I'm just a
      > hair beyond lukewarm now about him.
      >
      > It seems to me that the questions here were the wrong ones.
      > What's wrong with you that I am perceiving this, what's wrong
      > with you that you would perceive this about me seems a
      > distortion of Parzival's question "What Ails Thee". These are the
      > words-three words, NO MORE, no less. The lens that is required
      > is THE OTHER PERSON'S. They are in the position to know what
      > is bugging them, if anything.-Val
      >
    • sky
      Well, eventually you will have to ask WHERE does it hurt , otherwise you might find yourself pulling out a healthy tooth instead of the decayed one... Asking
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 1, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Well, eventually you will have to ask "WHERE does it hurt", otherwise
        you might find yourself pulling out a healthy tooth instead of the
        decayed one...
        Asking "what ails you" is just the beginning - not the end of the
        journey. You will have to muster up the courage to ask why and where as
        well...

        My three cents, -sky-




        On Dec 1, 2005, at 7:28 PM, dottie zold wrote:

        > Hi Ladies,
        >
        > I think for me, I feel an inner pain, which is where the question
        > comes from. I find that when I ask this question it is out of 'what
        > is hurting you so much? Not really, 'what is wrong with you' but what
        > is hurting you so much'? And then the next question for me
        > becomes 'How can I help', 'Is there anything I can be of service
        > too'? That' is how it feels in me. It is a heart question and not a
        > mind question for me or a judgement one? Although I can see depending
        > on the mindsets of both it could be taken either way.
        >
        > d
        >
        >
        > > > Thanks for this, Val
        > >
        > > No, thank you Engimi!  Of course you are right this was Parcival's
        > > question because Parcival was a complete fool, as we all are,
        > > being entertained in the castle, being too courteous (bound by
        > > convention) to share his perception. He percieved something
        > > was off, did he not? But he didn't ask. I was thinking about this
        > > after I wrote it and in a way they are two sides of the same
        > > question, what ails thee and what cures thee...if you look at it in
        > > the sense of the question being what is missing-it's still a
        > > question of what's lacking. The difference is that in asking what
        > > would restore health and well-being I am assuming that there is
        > > something that exists in reality that would, in fact, be available.
        > > Be available if I asked the question.
        > >
        > > So I can look around me and ask "what's wrong with this picture"
        > > and I can come up with quiet a few ideas. I think you're right-this
        > > is what is going on in the world today-we are living in this world
        > > of all these competing theories and people can get lost  in them,
        > > confused by them, and settle-settle for something that "sounds
        > > reasonable". And they don't ask, we don't ask-not out of
        > > convention in the honoring tradition sense but out of the context
        > > of the answers just being too complex-out of in a sense the new
        > > convention of our time-honoring specialization.
        > >
        > > Anyway, this is something I've been thinking a lot about lately-
        > that
        > > it might serve to ask what is needed by an individual rather than
        > > what is wrong with them and again, like you said, it seems to
        > > take the judgement aspect out of the conversation. On the other
        > > hand, if you do this, you may find as I have that many people can't
        > > tell you, don't know, themselves what their needs are.
        > >
        > > So now I'm going to tell a tell a tale out of school-something I
        > > should not do, would not do-tattle on myself and my fellow
        > > anthros but drastic times call for drastic measures and the truth
        > > is this is the  most dramatic illustration that I can think of-you
        > > know makes for good copy.
        > >
        > > A few years back I was in a meeting and I can't remember what I
        > > was bringing that was so infuriating but another member (an
        > > anthroposophist) of the group was livid with me, wagging his
        > > finger right in my face and spitting at me as he spoke he asked
        > > why it was that he perceived  that I was a conspiracy theorist. And
        > > I said, I had no idea but that this raised a question for me." What
        > > is it," I asked, "in your psyche that requires me to wear a black
        > > hat so that you are able to wear the white hat?" And at this he
        > > almost lept out of his chair, as he burst out with "I don't know,
        > > WHAT?" This was a very sincere question-like he wanted to
        > > know but I could only respond that I had no idea on that one
        > > either-that that was his work to find out. Pretty much I batted the
        > > big zero in this exchange.
        > >
        > > You know, us girls, how we have to sometimes process things
        > > so I related this conversation to a good friend, also an
        > > anthroposophist, and when I said he asked why he perceived
        > > that I was a conspiracy theorist-she said "Well, because you
        > > are". And then when I related his next question she asked-"Well,
        > > didn't you just love him in that moment, wow don't you just love
        > > him now?" And I said NO, I didn't love him in that moment-the
        > > man had been spitting like a reptile in my face. And it has taken
        > > me years to come to love this man. Years.  Actually, I'm just a
        > > hair beyond lukewarm now about him.
        > >
        > > It seems to me that the questions here were the wrong ones.
        > > What's wrong with you that I am perceiving this, what's wrong
        > > with you that you would perceive this about me seems a
        > > distortion of Parzival's question "What Ails Thee". These are the
        > > words-three words, NO MORE, no less. The lens that is required
        > > is THE OTHER PERSON'S. They are in the position to know what 
        > > is bugging them, if anything.-Val
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        >
        > ▪  Visit your group "anthroposophy_tomorrow" on the web.
        >  
        > ▪  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >  anthroposophy_tomorrow-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >  
        > ▪  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        > Service.
        >
        >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.