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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] I love a mystery

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  • dottie zold
    Hey Frank, They really have to be looked at as either traveling in the same circle, the same person, or brothers. There really isn t much room for it to be
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 1, 2005
      Hey Frank,

      They really have to be looked at as either traveling
      in the same circle, the same person, or brothers.
      There really isn't much room for it to be much other
      than these possibilities. We get that the same being
      was working through them however, however, it is more
      than that from what I have been able to experience or
      at least from my studies.

      I have one final thing to understand on the Magdalene
      front and then I can move back to the
      Shakespeare/Bacon/King James front. I mean they were
      outing the feminine in a way, they were aware of the
      mysteries.

      See, I am reading a new book called The Secret Book of
      John, The Gnostic Gospel by Stevan Davies. Now in this
      book we are coming upon the fact that some of the
      words were left in the Greek format after having been
      restranslated back into Coptic. So, it gets me to
      wondering how it is that the italics in the Bible came
      to be. I wonder if those words left in Greek was the
      way then to actually denote a mystery and in our day
      it was put into italics.

      I believe Shakespeare, as he travelled in the circle
      of Bacon, would most definitely have been one who
      worked on the King James. I really don't know how else
      it could be beings he was the man of his times as was
      Bacon. And I think they were intimately involved. The
      kicker for me are the key dates of Shakespeare's
      marriage and the death of Bacon. I can't figure out
      for the life of me what is hidden in there but I know
      something is. Everytime I find myself reading a
      scripture or something I wonder 'where or where is
      that Bacons death number, which scripture reveals a
      thing that is waiting to be discovered.

      And it is interesting in that Da Vinci also was around
      during that time period. I mean the fifteen hundreds
      was an incredibly wealthy spiritual resevour that is
      still being felt today.

      love,d

      > Dottie, you're gonna love this one. There was talk a
      > while back about Bacon, Shakespeare and the Kings
      > James Bible. In the forty-sixth Psalm, the 46th word
      > from the beginning is "shake"; and the 46th word
      > from
      > the end is "spear". In 1610, when the translation
      > work
      > was being done, Shakespeare was 46 years old. What
      > could it mean - aside from the possibility that's
      > it's
      > an improbable coincidence? The translation work was
      > a
      > group process; there were 54 translators divided
      > into
      > 6 groups or companies. They consulted with others,
      > one
      > could assume the leading poets, such as Shakespeare
      > and Ben Johnson. The King James Bible, though not
      > always completely accurate, is a wonderful poetic
      > work
      > of art. To what extent was Shakespeare involved?
      > Could
      > be a lot.
      > Frank
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > __________________________________
      > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
      > http://mail.yahoo.com
      >





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    • Steve Hale
      You re blathering, Dottie. Da Vinci died in 1519. And Shakey died ten years before Bacon! But keep asking Frank, and you can keep getting more confused; or
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 1, 2005
        You're blathering, Dottie. Da Vinci died in 1519. And Shakey died
        ten years before Bacon! But keep asking Frank, and you can keep
        getting more confused; or better yet, keep getting led down a blind
        alley. Whew. -S
        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
        <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Hey Frank,
        >
        > They really have to be looked at as either traveling
        > in the same circle, the same person, or brothers.
        > There really isn't much room for it to be much other
        > than these possibilities. We get that the same being
        > was working through them however, however, it is more
        > than that from what I have been able to experience or
        > at least from my studies.
        >
        > I have one final thing to understand on the Magdalene
        > front and then I can move back to the
        > Shakespeare/Bacon/King James front. I mean they were
        > outing the feminine in a way, they were aware of the
        > mysteries.
        >
        > See, I am reading a new book called The Secret Book of
        > John, The Gnostic Gospel by Stevan Davies. Now in this
        > book we are coming upon the fact that some of the
        > words were left in the Greek format after having been
        > restranslated back into Coptic. So, it gets me to
        > wondering how it is that the italics in the Bible came
        > to be. I wonder if those words left in Greek was the
        > way then to actually denote a mystery and in our day
        > it was put into italics.
        >
        > I believe Shakespeare, as he travelled in the circle
        > of Bacon, would most definitely have been one who
        > worked on the King James. I really don't know how else
        > it could be beings he was the man of his times as was
        > Bacon. And I think they were intimately involved. The
        > kicker for me are the key dates of Shakespeare's
        > marriage and the death of Bacon. I can't figure out
        > for the life of me what is hidden in there but I know
        > something is. Everytime I find myself reading a
        > scripture or something I wonder 'where or where is
        > that Bacons death number, which scripture reveals a
        > thing that is waiting to be discovered.
        >
        > And it is interesting in that Da Vinci also was around
        > during that time period. I mean the fifteen hundreds
        > was an incredibly wealthy spiritual resevour that is
        > still being felt today.
        >
        > love,d
        >
        > > Dottie, you're gonna love this one. There was talk a
        > > while back about Bacon, Shakespeare and the Kings
        > > James Bible. In the forty-sixth Psalm, the 46th word
        > > from the beginning is "shake"; and the 46th word
        > > from
        > > the end is "spear". In 1610, when the translation
        > > work
        > > was being done, Shakespeare was 46 years old. What
        > > could it mean - aside from the possibility that's
        > > it's
        > > an improbable coincidence? The translation work was
        > > a
        > > group process; there were 54 translators divided
        > > into
        > > 6 groups or companies. They consulted with others,
        > > one
        > > could assume the leading poets, such as Shakespeare
        > > and Ben Johnson. The King James Bible, though not
        > > always completely accurate, is a wonderful poetic
        > > work
        > > of art. To what extent was Shakespeare involved?
        > > Could
        > > be a lot.
        > > Frank
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > __________________________________
        > > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
        > > http://mail.yahoo.com
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
        > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
      • dottie zold
        ... Hey Stephen, it s all good man. They were here in the 1500 s and I find that really astounding. Sir Bacon died 1616 and these numbers coincide with
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 1, 2005
          Stephen:
          > You're blathering, Dottie. Da Vinci died in 1519.
          > And Shakey died
          > ten years before Bacon! But keep asking Frank, and
          > you can keep
          > getting more confused; or better yet, keep getting
          > led down a blind
          > alley. Whew. -S

          Hey Stephen, it's all good man. They were here in the
          1500's and I find that really astounding. Sir Bacon
          died 1616 and these numbers coincide with something to
          do with the marriage of Sir Shakespeare to a woman 28
          years or so his senior. And my friend Frank has not
          jumped on the bandwagon when it comes to the whole
          Shakespeare/Bacon mystery that I had partaken of
          earlier this year, so I really appreciate him looking
          at the mystery of Sir Shakespeare being involved with
          the King James version. And I think he would be on the
          money its just that I can't get past them being the
          same being yet. But i will be working on it. And it
          requires an open hand which is not really your strong
          point it seems. But then again we all have our
          strenghts and our weaknesses.

          And sometimes Stephen, you remind me of Lightsearcher
          in the way you berate others for no reason at all
          other than they have questions that you seem to think
          are imbecilic. Well, unless you find this type of
          conversing amusing. If so than I guess it will
          continue.

          Best,
          Dottie







          > >
          > > Hey Frank,
          > >
          > > They really have to be looked at as either
          > traveling
          > > in the same circle, the same person, or brothers.
          > > There really isn't much room for it to be much
          > other
          > > than these possibilities. We get that the same
          > being
          > > was working through them however, however, it is
          > more
          > > than that from what I have been able to experience
          > or
          > > at least from my studies.
          > >
          > > I have one final thing to understand on the
          > Magdalene
          > > front and then I can move back to the
          > > Shakespeare/Bacon/King James front. I mean they
          > were
          > > outing the feminine in a way, they were aware of
          > the
          > > mysteries.
          > >
          > > See, I am reading a new book called The Secret
          > Book of
          > > John, The Gnostic Gospel by Stevan Davies. Now in
          > this
          > > book we are coming upon the fact that some of the
          > > words were left in the Greek format after having
          > been
          > > restranslated back into Coptic. So, it gets me to
          > > wondering how it is that the italics in the Bible
          > came
          > > to be. I wonder if those words left in Greek was
          > the
          > > way then to actually denote a mystery and in our
          > day
          > > it was put into italics.
          > >
          > > I believe Shakespeare, as he travelled in the
          > circle
          > > of Bacon, would most definitely have been one who
          > > worked on the King James. I really don't know how
          > else
          > > it could be beings he was the man of his times as
          > was
          > > Bacon. And I think they were intimately involved.
          > The
          > > kicker for me are the key dates of Shakespeare's
          > > marriage and the death of Bacon. I can't figure
          > out
          > > for the life of me what is hidden in there but I
          > know
          > > something is. Everytime I find myself reading a
          > > scripture or something I wonder 'where or where is
          > > that Bacons death number, which scripture reveals
          > a
          > > thing that is waiting to be discovered.
          > >
          > > And it is interesting in that Da Vinci also was
          > around
          > > during that time period. I mean the fifteen
          > hundreds
          > > was an incredibly wealthy spiritual resevour that
          > is
          > > still being felt today.
          > >
          > > love,d
          > >
          > > > Dottie, you're gonna love this one. There was
          > talk a
          > > > while back about Bacon, Shakespeare and the
          > Kings
          > > > James Bible. In the forty-sixth Psalm, the 46th
          > word
          > > > from the beginning is "shake"; and the 46th word
          > > > from
          > > > the end is "spear". In 1610, when the
          > translation
          > > > work
          > > > was being done, Shakespeare was 46 years old.
          > What
          > > > could it mean - aside from the possibility
          > that's
          > > > it's
          > > > an improbable coincidence? The translation work
          > was
          > > > a
          > > > group process; there were 54 translators divided
          > > > into
          > > > 6 groups or companies. They consulted with
          > others,
          > > > one
          > > > could assume the leading poets, such as
          > Shakespeare
          > > > and Ben Johnson. The King James Bible, though
          > not
          > > > always completely accurate, is a wonderful
          > poetic
          > > > work
          > > > of art. To what extent was Shakespeare involved?
          > > > Could
          > > > be a lot.
          > > > Frank
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > __________________________________
          > > > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
          > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > __________________________________
          > > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
          > > http://mail.yahoo.com
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >




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        • dottie zold
          Ooops, Da Vinci s numbers come up to 16. oh man here we go again. Frank, I think we should review the notes I brought earlier this year as I put down a lot of
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 1, 2005
            Ooops, Da Vinci's numbers come up to 16. oh man here we go again.
            Frank, I think we should review the notes I brought earlier this year
            as I put down a lot of information that really boggles the mind and
            spoke to the '46' you just note. But this whole things does a spiral
            like and .............hmmmm, I wonder if I have to look at it as if
            from afar instead of zooming in on a thing......hmmmmm Kinda pulling
            back nice and easy.........






            > You're blathering, Dottie. Da Vinci died in 1519. And Shakey died
            > ten years before Bacon! But keep asking Frank, and you can keep
            > getting more confused; or better yet, keep getting led down a blind
            > alley. Whew. -S
            > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
            > <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hey Frank,
            > >
            > > They really have to be looked at as either traveling
            > > in the same circle, the same person, or brothers.
            > > There really isn't much room for it to be much other
            > > than these possibilities. We get that the same being
            > > was working through them however, however, it is more
            > > than that from what I have been able to experience or
            > > at least from my studies.
            > >
            > > I have one final thing to understand on the Magdalene
            > > front and then I can move back to the
            > > Shakespeare/Bacon/King James front. I mean they were
            > > outing the feminine in a way, they were aware of the
            > > mysteries.
            > >
            > > See, I am reading a new book called The Secret Book of
            > > John, The Gnostic Gospel by Stevan Davies. Now in this
            > > book we are coming upon the fact that some of the
            > > words were left in the Greek format after having been
            > > restranslated back into Coptic. So, it gets me to
            > > wondering how it is that the italics in the Bible came
            > > to be. I wonder if those words left in Greek was the
            > > way then to actually denote a mystery and in our day
            > > it was put into italics.
            > >
            > > I believe Shakespeare, as he travelled in the circle
            > > of Bacon, would most definitely have been one who
            > > worked on the King James. I really don't know how else
            > > it could be beings he was the man of his times as was
            > > Bacon. And I think they were intimately involved. The
            > > kicker for me are the key dates of Shakespeare's
            > > marriage and the death of Bacon. I can't figure out
            > > for the life of me what is hidden in there but I know
            > > something is. Everytime I find myself reading a
            > > scripture or something I wonder 'where or where is
            > > that Bacons death number, which scripture reveals a
            > > thing that is waiting to be discovered.
            > >
            > > And it is interesting in that Da Vinci also was around
            > > during that time period. I mean the fifteen hundreds
            > > was an incredibly wealthy spiritual resevour that is
            > > still being felt today.
            > >
            > > love,d
            > >
            > > > Dottie, you're gonna love this one. There was talk a
            > > > while back about Bacon, Shakespeare and the Kings
            > > > James Bible. In the forty-sixth Psalm, the 46th word
            > > > from the beginning is "shake"; and the 46th word
            > > > from
            > > > the end is "spear". In 1610, when the translation
            > > > work
            > > > was being done, Shakespeare was 46 years old. What
            > > > could it mean - aside from the possibility that's
            > > > it's
            > > > an improbable coincidence? The translation work was
            > > > a
            > > > group process; there were 54 translators divided
            > > > into
            > > > 6 groups or companies. They consulted with others,
            > > > one
            > > > could assume the leading poets, such as Shakespeare
            > > > and Ben Johnson. The King James Bible, though not
            > > > always completely accurate, is a wonderful poetic
            > > > work
            > > > of art. To what extent was Shakespeare involved?
            > > > Could
            > > > be a lot.
            > > > Frank
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > __________________________________
            > > > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
            > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > __________________________________
            > > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
            > > http://mail.yahoo.com
            > >
            >
          • dottie zold
            Okay Frank, here is one of my posts from before. It is a link from December of last year. I didn t realize it denotes the date of 1611 as the outing of the
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 1, 2005
              Okay Frank, here is one of my posts from before. It is a link from
              December of last year. I didn't realize it denotes the date of 1611 as
              the outing of the King James version. Very interesting numbers as it
              does correspond with the stream of 1616 as the death: 11 as the twins
              as well as the John 11:1 for the raising of Lazarus. Whew. anyhow, here
              it is and it refers to the '46th'.

              http://www.sirbacon.org/links/bible.html

              d
            • Steve Hale
              ... I wouldn t call it berating. And Bacon died in 1626, Shakespeare in 1616, and James in 1625. Now, a definite relationship between Bacon and James can be
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 2, 2005
                --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
                <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
                >
                > Stephen:
                > > You're blathering, Dottie. Da Vinci died in 1519.
                > > And Shakey died
                > > ten years before Bacon! But keep asking Frank, and
                > > you can keep
                > > getting more confused; or better yet, keep getting
                > > led down a blind
                > > alley. Whew. -S
                >
                > Hey Stephen, it's all good man. They were here in the
                > 1500's and I find that really astounding. Sir Bacon
                > died 1616 and these numbers coincide with something to
                > do with the marriage of Sir Shakespeare to a woman 28
                > years or so his senior. And my friend Frank has not
                > jumped on the bandwagon when it comes to the whole
                > Shakespeare/Bacon mystery that I had partaken of
                > earlier this year, so I really appreciate him looking
                > at the mystery of Sir Shakespeare being involved with
                > the King James version. And I think he would be on the
                > money its just that I can't get past them being the
                > same being yet. But i will be working on it. And it
                > requires an open hand which is not really your strong
                > point it seems. But then again we all have our
                > strenghts and our weaknesses.
                >
                > And sometimes Stephen, you remind me of Lightsearcher
                > in the way you berate others for no reason at all
                > other than they have questions that you seem to think
                > are imbecilic. Well, unless you find this type of
                > conversing amusing. If so than I guess it will
                > continue.
                >
                > Best,
                > Dottie

                I wouldn't call it berating. And Bacon died in 1626, Shakespeare in
                1616, and James in 1625. Now, a definite relationship between Bacon
                and James can be found. Just look at their official portraits. And
                Shakespeare was too much of a drunk to write inspired plays, but
                enough of a drunk to receive these great works of inspired astral
                travels through the annals of history. Now we know Bacon was a
                magi; a practitioner of the black arts. An occultist he was. And
                very much interested in being both influential and highly
                comfortable in his own time. Who else but Bacon could be spurned
                into obscurity by Queen Elizabeth, who could not understand this
                man's love for Spain even as England was fighting Spain, and he
                continually sought concessions with Spain. So, as long as she was
                alive, he was trounced for his treasonist thinking and patriotic
                feelings for Spain. Then, in 1603 she dies, and no sooner does
                James the VI of Scotland, son of Mary Stuart, the half sister of
                Elizabeth, who was held prisoner in the Tower of London for 19 years
                until beheaded for treason, become James I of England by the order
                of Robert Cecil, chancellor of the Crown, who was Francis Bacon's
                cousin, then Francis becomes Sir Bacon, and is resurrected in order
                to be a key member and confidante of the new king.

                But it's a deeper mystery and pivotal chapter in English history
                than most people suspect, and has been touched on here before; about
                a year ago. Bacon was instrumental in creating a certain tumult in
                English society, largely through the ideas running through
                Shakespeare's plays, as well as his hand in having those fourteen
                books removed from the Old Testament. These both had the effect of
                greater dissent, discord, and a new feeling among people that maybe
                the monarchy, and the anglican church, and the prevalent aristocracy
                needed to be dissolved, or at least, a change was in order. Thus,
                interest grew for settling the New World. Bacon's clever plan was
                to create a schism that would see this happen, and particularly
                because he saw this new world of America as the place where the
                ideas of his visionary treatise, "The New Atlantis", could be made a
                reality. And, as a magi, he new that the new world was populated
                with the direct descendants of Atlantis, and that Atlantis had been
                the place where a highly powerful, but ultimately destructive form
                of germinal knowledge arose. He needed to know that his new
                atlantis, the final act of his Novum Organum, would be realized at
                some point in time. And it has, leaving his legacy stamped on
                America forever.

                Steve
              • Frank Smith
                Dottie, Bacon may have been involved in the King James version of the Bible, but please forget about the Baconian heresy, i.e., that he really wrote
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 2, 2005
                  Dottie, Bacon may have been involved in the King James
                  version of the Bible, but please forget about the
                  Baconian heresy, i.e., that he really wrote
                  Shakespeare's plays and poems:
                  "It comes down to this: Shakespeare could not make
                  himself a supreme man of letters without benefit of
                  something better than a free grammar school education.
                  And that he had nothing more than this seems evident.
                  There is no record of his going to the university. He
                  was married in his teens and, besides, where was the
                  money to come from? But it is nonsense to suppose that
                  high art needs high learning. Any peasant can teach
                  himself to write, and write well. Any peasant can, by
                  reading the appropriate books and by keeping his
                  senses alert, give the illusion of great knowledge of
                  the world. The plays of Shakespeare, through the
                  trickery of the artist, give the illusion that their
                  creator has travelled widely, practiced all the
                  learned professions, bent his supple knee in courts
                  domestic and foreign. The brilliant surface suggests
                  an erudition and an expeerience that need not, in
                  fact, be there: the artist does not have to be a
                  courtier, teveller or scholar, though it may be his
                  task to create such men out of his imagination. The
                  Baconians and the rest of the heretics are deluded
                  into thinking that a work of art is of the same order
                  as a work of scholarship: this play shows a knowledge
                  of the law, therefore the playwright must have studied
                  the law; that play is set in Upper Mongolia, therefore
                  the playwright must have travelled thither. There are
                  no baconians among practising literary artists, and
                  there never have been: they no too much about the
                  workings of the minds of professional writers..."
                  Anthony Burgess: "Shakespeare"
                  to be continued.
                  Frank
                  --- dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

                  > Okay Frank, here is one of my posts from before. It
                  > is a link from
                  > December of last year. I didn't realize it denotes
                  > the date of 1611 as
                  > the outing of the King James version. Very
                  > interesting numbers as it
                  > does correspond with the stream of 1616 as the
                  > death: 11 as the twins
                  > as well as the John 11:1 for the raising of Lazarus.
                  > Whew. anyhow, here
                  > it is and it refers to the '46th'.
                  >
                  > http://www.sirbacon.org/links/bible.html
                  >
                  > d
                  >





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                • Frank Smith
                  ... Sir Bacon ... *8* years his senior. Frank __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 2, 2005
                    --- dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

                    Sir Bacon
                    > died 1616 and these numbers coincide with something
                    > to
                    > do with the marriage of Sir Shakespeare to a woman
                    > 28
                    > years or so his senior.

                    *8* years his senior.
                    Frank







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                  • dottie zold
                    I think it was 28 years but I shall check again. I think I was also wrong on the death of Bacon. It s been a while. d __________________________________ Yahoo!
                    Message 9 of 16 , Nov 2, 2005
                      I think it was 28 years but I shall check again. I
                      think I was also wrong on the death of Bacon. It's
                      been a while.
                      d




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                    • dottie zold
                      Hey Frank, the 1616 date is actually Shakespeare s death that I attributed to Lord Bacon. And, yes, you are right that she was 8 years older. I think the 28
                      Message 10 of 16 , Nov 2, 2005
                        Hey Frank,

                        the 1616 date is actually Shakespeare's death that I
                        attributed to Lord Bacon. And, yes, you are right that
                        she was 8 years older. I think the 28 came from the
                        date they were married which was the 28th of November.


                        Well I have to say, I had never heard that Shakespeare
                        and Bacon were one until I had found that Bacon was
                        involved with the King James version of the bible. And
                        I don't know if I read it first or intuited it first.
                        I am wont to believe that I intuited it first and then
                        went and looked for the goods. That is the same way
                        that the Magdalene appeared in my search of the Sophia
                        mystery which I didn't know even existed.

                        Anyhow, I feel a bit tender inside and as I tend to go
                        in head first and with all fours I think I shall just
                        contemplate these things from afar. I find myself not
                        ready for a new mystery that has such angst around it
                        as the Magdalene did. I mean to knowingly go into
                        something where everyone already has difinitive views
                        and where insult punches get thrown left and right
                        seem not to be my cup of tea today.

                        I've done a lot of research on those two men and
                        inwardly they suggest one being although Dr. STeiner
                        did say that one being worked through the three of
                        them specifically, so that could be it. And I guess
                        we can know that this Being was of the Sophian nature
                        or so it appears to me. I've said it before and I
                        shall say it again, there is no way those two men
                        lived in such close quarters and did not know of one
                        another and did not work together in some fashion. The
                        works and words of both are intermingled and I can not
                        put it down to 'that was the way they spoke in those
                        days'. There seems to be a working relationship
                        between the two of them if they are indeed two. I am
                        of the mind at this point that they are indeed two but
                        closely linked. I think that is what all the
                        Rosecrucian imagery stands for in Bacons work: Twins.
                        And that would put Bacon as the thinker(Aristotle) and
                        Shakespeare as the feeler(Plato) although maybe with
                        the two together as one we find the Anthroposophia
                        working through her timeline. They both seemed to have
                        harkened unto Sophia and yet they did so in very
                        different yet the same outward manner.

                        love, d




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                      • Frank Smith
                        ... A snapper-up of unconsidered trifles - that is Autolycus in The Winter s Tale; it is also Shakespeare and, indeed, any writer of drama or narrative
                        Message 11 of 16 , Nov 2, 2005
                          "...'A snapper-up of unconsidered trifles' - that is
                          Autolycus in The Winter's Tale; it is also Shakespeare
                          and, indeed, any writer of drama or narrative fiction.
                          The writer needs a scrap of psycho-analytical
                          terminology: he does not have to read the whole of
                          Freud; he merely has to filch something from a
                          paperback glossary or a learned man met on a bus. He
                          needs to know somethjing about Madagasgar of Cipango,
                          so he asks a sailor who has been there. You may know
                          the fiction writer by his library, whose contents
                          flatter neither the eye nor the owner's capacity for
                          systematic reading. Instead of phalanges of rich
                          uniform bindings, there are old racing guides,
                          dog-eared astrological almanacs, comic periodicals.
                          second-hand dictionaries, un-scholarly history books,
                          notebooks full of odd facts, picked up in Lying-in
                          hospitas or taxidermist's shops. When Shakespeare
                          achieved a library, if he ever did, we can be sure it
                          was not like Bacon's..." to be continued.

                          --- Frank Smith <eltrigal78@...> wrote:

                          > Dottie, Bacon may have been involved in the King
                          > James
                          > version of the Bible, but please forget about the
                          > Baconian heresy, i.e., that he really wrote
                          > Shakespeare's plays and poems:
                          > "It comes down to this: Shakespeare could not make
                          > himself a supreme man of letters without benefit of
                          > something better than a free grammar school
                          > education.
                          > And that he had nothing more than this seems
                          > evident.
                          > There is no record of his going to the university.
                          > He
                          > was married in his teens and, besides, where was the
                          > money to come from? But it is nonsense to suppose
                          > that
                          > high art needs high learning. Any peasant can teach
                          > himself to write, and write well. Any peasant can,
                          > by
                          > reading the appropriate books and by keeping his
                          > senses alert, give the illusion of great knowledge
                          > of
                          > the world. The plays of Shakespeare, through the
                          > trickery of the artist, give the illusion that their
                          > creator has travelled widely, practiced all the
                          > learned professions, bent his supple knee in courts
                          > domestic and foreign. The brilliant surface suggests
                          > an erudition and an expeerience that need not, in
                          > fact, be there: the artist does not have to be a
                          > courtier, teveller or scholar, though it may be his
                          > task to create such men out of his imagination. The
                          > Baconians and the rest of the heretics are deluded
                          > into thinking that a work of art is of the same
                          > order
                          > as a work of scholarship: this play shows a
                          > knowledge
                          > of the law, therefore the playwright must have
                          > studied
                          > the law; that play is set in Upper Mongolia,
                          > therefore
                          > the playwright must have travelled thither. There
                          > are
                          > no baconians among practising literary artists, and
                          > there never have been: they no too much about the
                          > workings of the minds of professional writers..."
                          > Anthony Burgess: "Shakespeare"
                          > to be continued.
                          > Frank
                          > --- dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > Okay Frank, here is one of my posts from before.
                          > It
                          > > is a link from
                          > > December of last year. I didn't realize it denotes
                          > > the date of 1611 as
                          > > the outing of the King James version. Very
                          > > interesting numbers as it
                          > > does correspond with the stream of 1616 as the
                          > > death: 11 as the twins
                          > > as well as the John 11:1 for the raising of
                          > Lazarus.
                          > > Whew. anyhow, here
                          > > it is and it refers to the '46th'.
                          > >
                          > > http://www.sirbacon.org/links/bible.html
                          > >
                          > > d
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
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                        • Frank Smith
                          What no amount of academic training can bestow on a potential writer is the gift of words. It can add to his vocabulary, as can a sojourn among Billingsgate
                          Message 12 of 16 , Nov 2, 2005
                            "What no amount of academic training can bestow on a
                            potential writer is the gift of words. It can add to
                            his vocabulary, as can a sojourn among Billingsgate
                            porters or beatniks, but it cannot teach the
                            fundamental skill of putting words together in new and
                            surprising patterns which, miraculously, reflect some
                            previously unguessed truth about life. Shakespeare's
                            supreme power in the exploitation of his native tongue
                            sprang from a natural endowment, but it could only be
                            fostered by the use and observation and love of
                            English, a subject not taught in schools."
                            (to be continued)

                            --- Frank Smith <eltrigal78@...> wrote:

                            > "...'A snapper-up of unconsidered trifles' - that is
                            > Autolycus in The Winter's Tale; it is also
                            > Shakespeare
                            > and, indeed, any writer of drama or narrative
                            > fiction.
                            > The writer needs a scrap of psycho-analytical
                            > terminology: he does not have to read the whole of
                            > Freud; he merely has to filch something from a
                            > paperback glossary or a learned man met on a bus. He
                            > needs to know somethjing about Madagasgar of
                            > Cipango,
                            > so he asks a sailor who has been there. You may know
                            > the fiction writer by his library, whose contents
                            > flatter neither the eye nor the owner's capacity for
                            > systematic reading. Instead of phalanges of rich
                            > uniform bindings, there are old racing guides,
                            > dog-eared astrological almanacs, comic periodicals.
                            > second-hand dictionaries, un-scholarly history
                            > books,
                            > notebooks full of odd facts, picked up in Lying-in
                            > hospitas or taxidermist's shops. When Shakespeare
                            > achieved a library, if he ever did, we can be sure
                            > it
                            > was not like Bacon's..." to be continued.
                            >
                            > --- Frank Smith <eltrigal78@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > Dottie, Bacon may have been involved in the King
                            > > James
                            > > version of the Bible, but please forget about the
                            > > Baconian heresy, i.e., that he really wrote
                            > > Shakespeare's plays and poems:
                            > > "It comes down to this: Shakespeare could not make
                            > > himself a supreme man of letters without benefit
                            > of
                            > > something better than a free grammar school
                            > > education.
                            > > And that he had nothing more than this seems
                            > > evident.
                            > > There is no record of his going to the university.
                            > > He
                            > > was married in his teens and, besides, where was
                            > the
                            > > money to come from? But it is nonsense to suppose
                            > > that
                            > > high art needs high learning. Any peasant can
                            > teach
                            > > himself to write, and write well. Any peasant can,
                            > > by
                            > > reading the appropriate books and by keeping his
                            > > senses alert, give the illusion of great knowledge
                            > > of
                            > > the world. The plays of Shakespeare, through the
                            > > trickery of the artist, give the illusion that
                            > their
                            > > creator has travelled widely, practiced all the
                            > > learned professions, bent his supple knee in
                            > courts
                            > > domestic and foreign. The brilliant surface
                            > suggests
                            > > an erudition and an expeerience that need not, in
                            > > fact, be there: the artist does not have to be a
                            > > courtier, teveller or scholar, though it may be
                            > his
                            > > task to create such men out of his imagination.
                            > The
                            > > Baconians and the rest of the heretics are deluded
                            > > into thinking that a work of art is of the same
                            > > order
                            > > as a work of scholarship: this play shows a
                            > > knowledge
                            > > of the law, therefore the playwright must have
                            > > studied
                            > > the law; that play is set in Upper Mongolia,
                            > > therefore
                            > > the playwright must have travelled thither. There
                            > > are
                            > > no baconians among practising literary artists,
                            > and
                            > > there never have been: they no too much about the
                            > > workings of the minds of professional writers..."
                            > > Anthony Burgess: "Shakespeare"
                            > > to be continued.
                            > > Frank
                            > > --- dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > Okay Frank, here is one of my posts from before.
                            > > It
                            > > > is a link from
                            > > > December of last year. I didn't realize it
                            > denotes
                            > > > the date of 1611 as
                            > > > the outing of the King James version. Very
                            > > > interesting numbers as it
                            > > > does correspond with the stream of 1616 as the
                            > > > death: 11 as the twins
                            > > > as well as the John 11:1 for the raising of
                            > > Lazarus.
                            > > > Whew. anyhow, here
                            > > > it is and it refers to the '46th'.
                            > > >
                            > > > http://www.sirbacon.org/links/bible.html
                            > > >
                            > > > d
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > __________________________________
                            > > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
                            > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                            > > --------------------~-->
                            > > Click here to rescue a little child from a life of
                            > > poverty.
                            > >
                            >
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                            > >
                            >
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                            > >
                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/anthroposophy_tomorrow/
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > anthroposophy_tomorrow-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > __________________________________
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                            > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                            >
                            >
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                            > poverty.
                            >
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                            >
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                            >
                            >
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                            >
                            >
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                            > anthroposophy_tomorrow-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                            >




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