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Re: Joel/Prophey/post 20445

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  • gaelman58
    Joel: I appreciate your response particularly your speaking of your spiritual experiences...the interpretation of which is entirely your personal business. I
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 15, 2005
      Joel: I appreciate your response particularly your speaking of your
      spiritual experiences...the interpretation of which is entirely your
      personal business.
      I don't take great issue with your prophetic views...I just don't see
      it going that way. I'm inclined to consider prophetic indications of
      the "bad times" ahead alluding more to states of individual being than
      actual terrestrial events. The mother who lost her son last night in
      an automobile accident is experiencing the hopelessness of hell this
      morning. That is her holocaust...and it's palpably real.
      Thermonuclear explosions and imps with pitchforks are unnecessary...

      I think you're doing good work, Joel....regards, Gaelman

      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Joel Wendt
      <hermit@t...> wrote:
      > Dear Gaelman,
      > In 1991, around September, I recevied a telephone call from my
      > eldest daughter (she just turned 39, but at that time was in her late
      > twenties), informing me that she had just started talking the class:
      > Rite of Catholic Initiation of Adults. After hearing her out, I then
      > asked here if she would care to guess where I was going that night (she
      > was living in Sonoma, California, and I was living in Lyndeborough, New
      > Hampshire). She couldn't guess, but was not suprised when I informed
      > her that I was going that evening to the same class, which was then
      > starting in St. Patricks parish in nearby Milford, NH.
      > I took my first communion the following Easter in 1992. All of
      > was in connection with the following, which is how I described it in my
      > book the Way of the Fool:
      > [In reference to the idea above, that Christ only enters the Catholic
      > Church during the Mass (while always remaining available to
      > I am here only reflecting on what He does with regards to the organized
      > Church), I want to tell the following story. Again, it is conscience
      > that requires this, so that the reader may know from where I obtain
      > thoughts. In about 1986, while I was first studying Meditations on the
      > Tarot: a Journey into Christian Hermeticism, I had an early morning
      > dream (vision), which came to me by Grace {"And it shall come to pass
      > after this that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons
      > and your daughters shall prophesy; your old men shall dream dreams, and
      > your young men shall see visions." Joel 2:28.}
      > The following was like a dream: I was walking in a garden, to one
      > side of which was the house in which I was then living, and on the
      > side of which was a Catholic Church. I was walking with a priest of
      > Church, and explaining to him why I wanted to become a Catholic (I had
      > not yet done this, or thought of doing this, although 5 years later I
      > did do this). I said to the priest that there were basically two
      > Churches, a pure Heavenly Church, and a fallen Earthly Church, and that
      > during the Mass Christ Descends and brings the two churches into direct
      > contact with each other, and this fact was why I was becoming a
      > (I did later tell the story of this dream to the priest that oversaw my
      > experience of the Rite of Catholic Initiation of Adults, a 9 month
      > process ending with first communion on Easter - so in every way the
      > dream was prophetic)
      > While I was saying/speaking in the latter part of the dream, I
      > simultaneously had the by Grace vision aspect. Christ had taken me
      > Himself and then taken me with Him, while He performed this act of
      > Descent and by Grace reintegration, in which temporarily He united the
      > two otherwise separated Churches, the pure Heavenly Church and the
      > fallen Earthly Church, during the Mass.
      > At this point, I opened my eyes and discovered myself fully awake
      > and lying in bed on my back. I stayed there, without moving, without
      > even thinking, for about a half hour, at rest and completely at peace.
      > I have never before or after experienced such peace.]
      > So please be assured, I am not in anyway speaking of
      > To give a concrete example of what I mean....
      > About a year ago, while watching the C-Span book channel, I
      > for about four hours a discussion of the Church's stand on modern
      > political issues, in which there were a variety of speakers, some who
      > had written books, and others who just represented one or another of
      > divisions within the Church. A typical example was a bishop, who
      > presented the more fundamentalist view as regards abortion and other
      > issues such as whether a politician who had not spoken against
      > could be denied communion. Alternating with this kind of speaking,
      > mostly lay individuals (including some religious) who basically spoke
      > out of some form of the social gospel, or something akin to "liberation
      > theology".
      > In observing this, having as I already did an intimate
      connection to
      > the Consciousness Soul, I could hear in the latter speakers this
      > intimation of the Consciousness Soul - a free moral conscience that
      > still believed in the Church as having a relationship, not so much to
      > the hierarchies of priest, bishops and popes, but to Christ.
      > In working inwardly with this during the time of writing my book, I
      > was able to have an Imagination of the dying away of the hierarchical
      > structure of the Church, as is happening as a general phenomena in this
      > the 5th post-Atlantean epoch. In the 5th epoch, hierarchical
      > institutions no longer have any real authority (real authority being
      > connected to the actual intentions of higher worlds), while the
      > inspirational support is being offered to the social commons, via the
      > moral intutions of the Consciousness Soul.
      > Much of this kind of thing is being observed and reported by
      > Following this dying away of hierarchical social forms, the social
      > future is appearing out of the social commons, such that for the
      > the laity will more and more become dependent upon itself. A further,
      > though darker, aspect of this is the social chaos that is coming, such
      > that the very lines of communication which would otherwise support the
      > hierarchies of the Church in seeking to enforce its edicts, will be
      > lost. Catholics will literally be on their own, as the world convulses
      > in the End of Western Civilization.
      > In fact, it appears that the Third Fatima Prophecy concerned the
      > reality that Pope John Paul II was to be the last true Pope, in that
      > institutional Church will fall in the near future through the forces of
      > the coming chaos. Benedict XVI is simply a Nero playing the fiddle
      > while Rome burns.
      > The very structure on which institutional authority now depends
      > be washed away. Catholic communities will not only not be able to
      > contact authorities for guidance, but will find that they need to reach
      > across to not only protestants, but others of different faiths in order
      > to survive the coming trials by fire and ice.
      > At the same time, living in Catholics are certain true aspects of
      > the Christian Mysteries, and these true elements will have an
      > opportunity to play a role in the survival of many human beings. A
      > prophetic presentment of this can be found in the novel "A Canticle for
      > Leibowitz", written by Walter M. Miller Jr. and published in 1959.
      > is a nice long academic review of this book:
      > http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~brians/science_fiction/canticle.html
      > <http://www.wsu.edu:8080/%7Ebrians/science_fiction/canticle.html>
      > This has had to be short, but I hope you will consider the
      > possibility that a great deal more stands behind what has been
      written here.
      > warm regards,
      > joel
      > gaelman58 wrote:
      > > Joel: Your presentation about the future of the Church and the
      > > "living aspect of the laity" has already happened. It's called
      > > Protestantism. So, according to your view the Church will "evolve"
      > > into something similar to the present mishmash of Christian
      > > confessions where "every little drummer has his rights". The meaning
      > > of the sacraments will be put to a vote of the various congregations,
      > > the clergy will run for office and all moral points will be subject to
      > > personal interpretation. No offense intended here Joel, but at
      > > present you're simply a Protestant. Since that's the case, why do you
      > > think it necessary to give forth about Catholicism? See, with the
      > > apostate it's different...with him it's personal...in an oblique way
      > > he's entitled.
      > > No one here on this list ever deals with Catholicism honestly. They
      > > just bullshit away with whatever crap comes into their mind at the
      > > moment. No one is dealing with my citation from the Catechism, are
      > > they? No, they avoid that because they'd have to do some serious
      > > thinking, wouldn't they? My impression over time is that they simply
      > > don't have that kind of spiritual juice...always inclined to sink into
      > > some kind of ideological/sociological/political garbage.
      > >
      > > You present yourself as a thoughtful man, ok, maybe you're different
      > > from the rest of them...you interpret the citation, eh?....regards,
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