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Re: Continuity

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  • dottie zold
    ... And I will respect that this is what you have found. And I shall say that would not be true for me. And, as far as the committment having gone deeper,I
    Message 1 of 60 , Sep 2, 2005
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      Stephen C.:

      > Now I have made the evaluation both that I have been occultly excluded
      > from the Society and that the Society is outwardly dead. But my
      > commitment has simply gone deeper, into a broader connection with the
      > Movement. Brad calls it the Michael School. Whatever. I still have
      > my commitment to Rudolf Steiner and those connections allow me to
      > weigh in on these issues from a differnt perspective that some of the
      > others here might have.

      And I will respect that this is what you have found. And I shall say
      that would not be true for me. And, as far as the committment having
      gone deeper,I would ask in what respects and towards what? Are you
      speaking of your own committment towards your own growth?

      And, I sense the exclusion that some of y'all speak of. I don't sense
      it from my person as being excluded, although I probably am or don't
      even register on the blip, but that would not be the point. Theosophy
      didn't exclude Dr. STeiner. They chose to renig on a promise or
      committment to allow him to work his own work within the group. Once
      they made it clear that he would have to follow them he made the choice
      to move on. He was always operating as an Anthroposophist within
      Theosophy. He says so in his work The Anthroposophical Movement.

      This exclusion you and a few others have felt is regrettable to a
      certain extent, yet to another it seems that you also have had a very
      clear hand in creating this situation as well. Its not just that you
      were excluded or they, rather it was a mutual exclusion in a sense once
      you and the others realized that some of what you wanted to bring was
      not what the others were wanting to hear: no matter how important you
      or Joel or some of the others felt your work was. And it is here that I
      then sense this great striking out from those who have felt rejected or
      excluded in a sense. And then comes the 'oh they are all Steiner said
      and they are all corrupt and they are this and they are that and yada
      yada ya. Now, some of that may be true and I also sense that those who
      have felt this exclusion are onto something else. That doesn't mean
      that Dr. Steiner's teachings don't count for you all as it is obvious
      he has your respect. However, it does speak to something else and I
      believe that something else is very important to consider: the dying of
      what Dr. Steiner brought as a Soul group of sorts.

      And personally I do not think it is about the personality of Dr.
      Steiner rather I believe it is what he wrought on behalf of mankind;
      Anthroposophy. And if one gives up on it and goes solo, that can be
      what was in the cards, and then on the other hand there are those that
      will remain within and try to continue this Soul force of a movement
      that he brought about because it really is the great hope of hte world.
      And it was this understanding that led me to call all the great
      warriors who have left to return to the table. To return and try to
      work it out. So, its not about being honorable to his personality
      rather it is about being honorable to what Anthroposophy is. And it is
      a teaching like no other in the world. And it can continue to grow and
      it will.

      To be dead to you is quite an interesting point to work from and one
      that I would like you to reconsider. If not for anything other than
      there are many of us looking to take it into the next level, and even
      if you can't come to an agreement that it is worth working with maybe
      you can find a way to lend towards the energy of the change that is
      coming about.

      Again, I haven't seen anything in your post that is not about your
      personal vanity. Not as a slight, but what you need. Now, in this world
      that is what we are taught: we need to take care of ourselves first and
      so forth. And that would be true. But Dr. Steiner held it unto an even
      greater heights: service. John the Baptist beheaded for service, the
      Christ sacraficed for service to something greater than he: us. Dr.
      Steiner did no less.

      I have always been saddened that there has been such a sense of
      rejection from many of my friends on the spiritual science path. But
      its' like Dr. King man, you just can't give up on something that is as
      important as this teaching. You can go off and be by yourself, well you
      can, and that may even be the right choice for you at the time, but the
      stream I come from, its all about service. And truth be told I really
      think the personal rejection is what drives all of this talk of
      corruption and the non understanding, way dejavu right now, of what the
      lesson is for those experiencing such a thing.

      I am facing rejection all over the place but I have to stay. It is my
      duty to see it through during my life time. And so I will. And how much
      easier it would be to leave, but it would be against every single thing
      I stand for because I am in the Michael stream. Listening to our higher
      selves/ that Witness and the angelic beings working with us, prod us to
      be rid of our lower egos. And so we must.

      > Does that explain?

      In some ways yes and others no. You still have not been clear about
      why all the fuss about the Vorstand. I mean I get lots of y'all are
      upset it has not gone the way y'all think it should've and so forth,
      but I still have not seen anything that approaches anything objective
      versus the feeling of exclusion and then the second step of cutting
      oneself off but not really and yet putting down the others with
      insinuations of not carrying through Dr. Steiner's work. Mostly I sense
      a great frustration that people feel they don't have anyone to take
      them to the next level. And for that you must behead yourself. I mean
      that is what must happen but nobody wants to understand or talk about
      what that kind of sacrafice means. And nobody can do it but you for
      yourself. I mean, that is where the teacher within is taking y'all. We
      are heading to the age where people will feel other peoples hunger and
      pain as their own. What does that mean to anyone? I mean really. If one
      does not sacrafice ones life now how will one understand the future
      unless through grace. And as a Michael student I am so not one looking
      for my own grace, I'd like it to go to another less fortunate than I
      unless it is important for the service of another.

      But nobody gets this it seems. Its not really kosher to talk about it
      seems or people feel judged. I can keep saying over four or five years
      now, well I guess it is in everyones good time that it happens, but I
      am getting this is kinda lame for me to say. Its either you understand
      the need or you do not. Service, the Vorstand is at service. Whether
      you agree with them or not is besides the point. They are in service.

      So, no Stephen, it doesn't explain it. I still have not seen anything
      in your post other than exclusion, which I am not downplaying, as the
      reason why the Vorstand is not a good group of people. I'd like to see
      more of a reason than something subjective that can aid in one
      understanding where you think they have been shown to have been wrong.

      All good things,
    • dottie zold
      Okay, I shall check on it. This book has some serious issues in it as for example the chapter noted as being Chapter 8 has the inside pages noted as Chapter 7.
      Message 60 of 60 , Sep 14, 2005
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        Okay, I shall check on it. This book has some serious
        issues in it as for example the chapter noted as being
        Chapter 8 has the inside pages noted as Chapter 7. And
        I think its going to have to go into reprint as it is
        one that speaks directly to this understanding of the
        Being Anthroposophia in the community and the
        importance of continuing forward as a Society that has


        > dottie zold wrote:
        > > Frank:
        > >
        > >>Dottie and others have recently mentioned the book
        > >>"Isis Mary Sophia". I
        > >>was looking this over and found what I think may
        > be
        > >>serious erroneous
        > >>translations in the last entry: "A Christmas
        > Study:
        > >>The Mystery of the
        > >>Logos". On the first page: "...the unfolding of
        > the
        > >>intellectual or mind
        > >>soul..." 'intellectual' is ok for 'Verstand', but
        > I
        > >>think that Gemüt
        > >>should not be translated as "mind", although it
        > >>often is. The problem is
        > >>that there is no adequate translation for the
        > word.
        > >>I think, however,
        > >>that Steiner didn't mean that Verstand and Gemüt
        > are
        > >>synonymous, but
        > >>rather that they are two parallel paths of
        > >>development - one being
        > >>intellectual or reasoning, the other being through
        > >>heart, emotion or
        > >>soul (Gemüt). I don't recall whether Bernard
        > >>Lievegoed wrote it or I
        > >>heard him say it, but he used the example of a
        > >>kindergarten teacher (or
        > >>assistant)who perhaps wouldn't understand
        > Philosophy
        > >>of Freedom or isn't
        > >>interested in it, but nevertheless intuits
        > >>sufficiently to pass through
        > >>the intellectual/Gemüt phase onward to
        > consciousness
        > >>soul development. I
        > >>think this is appropriate for this list because of
        > >>accusations that
        > >>certain members are stuck in the sentient soul
        > >>stage. Also in the same
        > >>chapter the translator uses "spiritual soul"
        > instead
        > >>of "consciousness
        > >>soul" for some reason.
        > >
        > >
        > > Dear Frank, can we speak to the editors of the
        > > publishing company about this issue you bring up?
        > I
        > > think it is really important to the integrity of
        > Dr.
        > > Steiner's work.
        > I don't think there's much point in that, first
        > because I haven't come
        > up with a suitable translation for "Gemüt, and
        > secondly because they
        > couldn't do anything about it anyway until a new
        > edition came out, which
        > is probably unlikely - and third, I don't have the
        > tme right now.
        > Frank

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