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  • Stephen Clarke
    ... Fair enough, Dottie. I will tell you why all this rehashing of what went wrong and who did what when and all that is so very important. There is an
    Message 1 of 60 , Sep 2 8:07 AM
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      Dear Dottie:

      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold
      <dottie_z@y...> wrote:

      > Now, the Vorstand may have done this and done that and
      > done this and done that. So the fuck what....

      Fair enough, Dottie. I will tell you why all this rehashing of "what
      went wrong" and "who did what when" and all that is so very important.

      There is an esoteric principle of continuity. If one is working with
      an actual spiritual stream, it is not something that is only "out
      there" and which comes down from the sky in the Now for us to reach
      out and plug into. Yes, it is that, but it will also be something
      that has history in culture, in the biographies of those who took
      repsonsiblity for it, made it their own, and brought it forward into
      the present for us. This is why Rudolf Steiner tried to work within
      the Theosophical Society for as long as he could - until they excluded
      him. This is also why he insisted that his teachings be linked to him
      personally - not out of egotism, but because they bear his personal
      stamp, for better and for worse and it would be Ahrimanic for people
      to get the impression that they were nothing but disembodied cosmic
      wisdom for which he was the channel.

      If we wish to work within anthroposophy we cannot reinvent the wheel
      all by ourselves, even if we go back to First Principles like Joel
      encourages us to do. That is necessary, just as it is necessary for
      each of us be able to cut loose from what is circumstantial and
      eliminate the middlemen and go directly to God. But it is also
      necessary for each of us to understand our precedents in time and
      space; to honor our ancestors, in other words, by taking up what they
      have left for us, to carry forward the burdens that they have carried
      forward for us into our own contemporary circumstances (this also
      Joel does, BTW). In an authentic spiritual path, there is an unwritten
      contract that one will assume responsibility for what has gone before
      and try to heal what others have left undone, or done poorly, for only
      to that extent can one's own work find its own unfoldment within that
      stream. If someone wishes to bring something new into that stream,
      then this obligation is doubled, even if only to earn and demonstrate
      the credilbilty required to those who _are_ competent in the
      methodolgy involved in that particular pathway. Otherwise you are
      just a tourist and a lightweight do-gooder with no necessary
      commitment to what othrs have taken seriously.

      Evolution, not revolution, in other words. Sometimes that later is
      inevitable, but, like war, it shold only be a last resort, and
      something which is forced upon one by circumstances beyond control. In
      the case of esoteric endeavor, that means transpersonal cycles of
      change, for instance. Even then, there is continuity, but it goes

      Now I have made the evaluation both that I have been occultly excluded
      from the Society and that the Society is outwardly dead. But my
      commitment has simply gone deeper, into a broader connection with the
      Movement. Brad calls it the Michael School. Whatever. I still have
      my commitment to Rudolf Steiner and those connections allow me to
      weigh in on these issues from a differnt perspective that some of the
      others here might have.

      Does that explain?

    • dottie zold
      Okay, I shall check on it. This book has some serious issues in it as for example the chapter noted as being Chapter 8 has the inside pages noted as Chapter 7.
      Message 60 of 60 , Sep 14 8:47 AM
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        Okay, I shall check on it. This book has some serious
        issues in it as for example the chapter noted as being
        Chapter 8 has the inside pages noted as Chapter 7. And
        I think its going to have to go into reprint as it is
        one that speaks directly to this understanding of the
        Being Anthroposophia in the community and the
        importance of continuing forward as a Society that has


        > dottie zold wrote:
        > > Frank:
        > >
        > >>Dottie and others have recently mentioned the book
        > >>"Isis Mary Sophia". I
        > >>was looking this over and found what I think may
        > be
        > >>serious erroneous
        > >>translations in the last entry: "A Christmas
        > Study:
        > >>The Mystery of the
        > >>Logos". On the first page: "...the unfolding of
        > the
        > >>intellectual or mind
        > >>soul..." 'intellectual' is ok for 'Verstand', but
        > I
        > >>think that Gemüt
        > >>should not be translated as "mind", although it
        > >>often is. The problem is
        > >>that there is no adequate translation for the
        > word.
        > >>I think, however,
        > >>that Steiner didn't mean that Verstand and Gemüt
        > are
        > >>synonymous, but
        > >>rather that they are two parallel paths of
        > >>development - one being
        > >>intellectual or reasoning, the other being through
        > >>heart, emotion or
        > >>soul (Gemüt). I don't recall whether Bernard
        > >>Lievegoed wrote it or I
        > >>heard him say it, but he used the example of a
        > >>kindergarten teacher (or
        > >>assistant)who perhaps wouldn't understand
        > Philosophy
        > >>of Freedom or isn't
        > >>interested in it, but nevertheless intuits
        > >>sufficiently to pass through
        > >>the intellectual/Gemüt phase onward to
        > consciousness
        > >>soul development. I
        > >>think this is appropriate for this list because of
        > >>accusations that
        > >>certain members are stuck in the sentient soul
        > >>stage. Also in the same
        > >>chapter the translator uses "spiritual soul"
        > instead
        > >>of "consciousness
        > >>soul" for some reason.
        > >
        > >
        > > Dear Frank, can we speak to the editors of the
        > > publishing company about this issue you bring up?
        > I
        > > think it is really important to the integrity of
        > Dr.
        > > Steiner's work.
        > I don't think there's much point in that, first
        > because I haven't come
        > up with a suitable translation for "Gemüt, and
        > secondly because they
        > couldn't do anything about it anyway until a new
        > edition came out, which
        > is probably unlikely - and third, I don't have the
        > tme right now.
        > Frank

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