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Re: Catharsis and Cognition

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  • val2160
    ... Dear Terence, Well, I think I understand what you re saying here and I feel that if this process works for 20% or so of the population then it serves me
    Message 1 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
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      Terence wrote:
      >
      > Both Anthroposophy as a Path of Cognition and
      > Cognitive Therapy definitely assist in the process
      > of Catharsis, which is my main focus as a counselor
      > and mentor. Otherwise the enchantment of spiritual
      > by-pass looms on the horizon.


      > BTW, what is your background and service in life?

      Dear Terence,
      Well, I think I understand what you're saying here and I feel that if this
      process works for 20% or so of the population then it serves me as an
      educator and as a Mother to understand what the alternatives are. I've
      worked the past sixteen years with young children who respond to curative
      eurythmy for example-versus catharsis.

      What my concern is here specificaly about catharsis is the notion that one
      must extract the event, file, root, whathaveyou from the psyche in order for the
      system to heal. I see this belief as being consistent with allopathic medicine
      as is the sugical removal of cancerous cells whether they be in a person's
      body or in the body of humanity. I don't see the connection with or a basis for
      this within anthroposophy.

      Best regards,

      Val
    • Terence
      ... that if this ... an ... I ve ... curative ... that one ... order for the ... allopathic medicine ... person s ... a basis for ... I do not see catharsis as
      Message 2 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
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        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "val2160"
        <wdenval@a...> wrote:
        > Terence wrote:
        > >
        > > Both Anthroposophy as a Path of Cognition and
        > > Cognitive Therapy definitely assist in the process
        > > of Catharsis, which is my main focus as a counselor
        > > and mentor. Otherwise the enchantment of spiritual
        > > by-pass looms on the horizon.
        >
        >
        > > BTW, what is your background and service in life?
        >
        > Dear Terence,
        > Well, I think I understand what you're saying here and I feel
        that if this
        > process works for 20% or so of the population then it serves me as
        an
        > educator and as a Mother to understand what the alternatives are.
        I've
        > worked the past sixteen years with young children who respond to
        curative
        > eurythmy for example-versus catharsis.
        >
        > What my concern is here specificaly about catharsis is the notion
        that one
        > must extract the event, file, root, whathaveyou from the psyche in
        order for the
        > system to heal. I see this belief as being consistent with
        allopathic medicine
        > as is the sugical removal of cancerous cells whether they be in a
        person's
        > body or in the body of humanity. I don't see the connection with or
        a basis for
        > this within anthroposophy.

        I do not see catharsis as psychic 'surgery' in the
        way you are presenting it, but rather an awareness
        that one receives through cleansing and purging
        dysfunctional habits, be they physical, emotional,
        mental or social. Nothing is extracted, but rather
        something is brought into light so that one can not
        only see it, but can also feel the depth of its
        roots in the psyche. It is not a belief! It is a
        reality, albeit an illusion, that binds one to
        tradition, the past, sorrow and suffering. This
        bondage is off an astral nature. Catharsis is a
        method, means and mode of purifying the astral. To
        move well beyond its influence, one needs to find a
        place of security in concepts, once the initial
        emotional purging takes place.

        Steiner, Isis Mary Sophia pages 68-69:
        "We may call the refashioning of the
        astral body indirectly through meditation and
        concentration by the ancient name katharsis, or
        purification. Katharsis or purification, seeks to
        discard from the astral body all that hinders it
        from becoming harmoniously and regularly organized
        and so able to acquire higher organs. The astral
        body is endowed with the germ of these higher
        organs. It is only necessary to bring forth the
        forces present in it. We have said that the most
        varied methods can be employed for bringing about
        katharsis. You can advance quite far in this matter
        of katharsis if, for example, you have gone through
        and inwardly experienced everything in my book
        Intuitive Thinking as a Spiritual Path."

        Catharsis and cognition would not be of any value
        for children primarily because they, in the main,
        do not have the ability to conceptualize. I do see
        great value in curative eurythmy for both adults
        and children, althought admittedly, my knowledge on
        eurythmy is scant.

        Terence
      • val2160
        ... Dear Terrence, Thanks for this explanation-I think I was responding to an image of weeding which implied to me a pulling of the roots into the light-and as
        Message 3 of 19 , Sep 7, 2005
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          Terrence wrote:
          >
          > I do not see catharsis as psychic 'surgery' in the
          > way you are presenting it, but rather an awareness
          > that one receives through cleansing and purging
          > dysfunctional habits, be they physical, emotional,
          > mental or social. Nothing is extracted, but rather
          > something is brought into light so that one can not
          > only see it, but can also feel the depth of its
          > roots in the psyche.

          Dear Terrence,

          Thanks for this explanation-I think I was responding to an image of weeding
          which implied to me a pulling of the roots into the light-and as an avid
          gardener I must protest.

          It is not a belief! It is a
          > reality, albeit an illusion, that binds one to
          > tradition, the past, sorrow and suffering. This
          > bondage is off an astral nature. Catharsis is a
          > method, means and mode of purifying the astral. To
          > move well beyond its influence, one needs to find a
          > place of security in concepts, once the initial
          > emotional purging takes place.

          I believe it is a belief in the sense that it is something accepted as true. Which
          is Dottie's question, I think, how do we move past these illusions, as you call
          them, to what is actually present. I see the basic exercises of anthroposophy
          as one methodology. There are certainly others, as Steiner mentions below. I
          have come across a couple new modalities, based on the Essene texts.
          >
          > Steiner, Isis Mary Sophia pages 68-69:
          > "We may call the refashioning of the
          > astral body indirectly through meditation and
          > concentration by the ancient name katharsis, or
          > purification. Katharsis or purification, seeks to
          > discard from the astral body all that hinders it
          > from becoming harmoniously and regularly organized
          > and so able to acquire higher organs.

          Would one of those higher organs be the sense of truth? Seems like a higher
          organ of perception to me-higher, at least, than the filter of my cummulative
          past experience. Because, not to get stuck on the gardening metaphor, but a
          rose by any other name would truly smell as sweet...Val


          The astral
          > body is endowed with the germ of these higher
          > organs. It is only necessary to bring forth the
          > forces present in it. We have said that the most
          > varied methods can be employed for bringing about
          > katharsis. You can advance quite far in this matter
          > of katharsis if, for example, you have gone through
          > and inwardly experienced everything in my book
          > Intuitive Thinking as a Spiritual Path."
          >
        • Terence
          ... weeding ... avid ... Tis curious about the roots of plants compared to the roots of humanity...humanities roots are grounded in the light, while the
          Message 4 of 19 , Sep 7, 2005
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            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "val2160"
            <wdenval@a...> wrote:

            > Dear Terrence,
            >
            > Thanks for this explanation-I think I was responding to an image of
            weeding
            > which implied to me a pulling of the roots into the light-and as an
            avid
            > gardener I must protest.

            Tis curious about the 'roots' of plants compared to
            the 'roots' of humanity...humanities 'roots' are
            grounded in the light, while the plants has its
            roots in the darkness. We recognize the light when
            we "lift up our eyes" toward the 'soil' of the
            cosmos.

            > I believe it is a belief in the sense that it is something accepted
            as true.

            When I use the word "belief" or "believe" what I am
            communicating is that I do not KNOW... that I am
            taking some else's word for it, that I have not
            experienced it first hand. For me any belief can
            not be true until I have ascertained that for
            myself. I can say though that it is an interesting
            theory or a working hypo-thesis, but not the truth
            until I know it to be the truth for me. In time, I
            will be able to also know if what I consider to be
            true is true for others, but that is neither here
            not there, as firstly it needs to be cognized as
            being true for me. This all starts with "I."

            >Which
            > is Dottie's question, I think, how do we move past these illusions,
            as you call them, to what is actually present.

            My experience teaches me that the first thing is
            for me to know what illusions are and then to
            become aware of the substance of illusion as I can
            perceive them. Until this is cognized I am unable
            to move past that which I do not know as being
            illusion. Steiner has presented for our individual
            consideration the nature of maya and illusion.

            >I see the basic exercises of anthroposophy
            > as one methodology. There are certainly others, as Steiner mentions
            below. I have come across a couple new modalities, based on the
            Essene texts.

            Yes! Anthroposophy offers us a basic methodology.
            What I find is that life experience is a great
            teacher. There is nothing like thinking you are
            some body only to find out that one of the major
            illusions is one's own sense of self-importance.
            Humility. Awe. Wonder. Lead us to the threshold
            wherein one can see oneself in the Light.

            > Would one of those higher organs be the sense of truth? Seems like
            a higher
            > organ of perception to me-higher, at least, than the filter of my
            cummulative
            > past experience. Because, not to get stuck on the gardening
            metaphor, but a
            > rose by any other name would truly smell as sweet...Val

            Sounds correct to me. Question is how can one
            arrive at a sense of truth if they are believers?

            Terence
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