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Re: Adams Sister Soul

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  • dottie zold
    ... is ... Pardon my thickness Stephen, I do not understand what you are saying here. Would you please rephrase it? As I understand the those standing at the
    Message 1 of 18 , Aug 3, 2005
      Stephen:
      > Well, for an astral body and an etheric body to be at the head and
      > foot of the empty grave, as perceived by Mary Magdalene, the soul
      is
      > proven to have existed in the Nathan Jesus, correct? And when she
      > sees the gardener who wakes her up, who's he?

      Pardon my thickness Stephen, I do not understand what you are saying
      here. Would you please rephrase it?

      As I understand the those standing at the foot are the
      representations of the Heavenly and Earthly Sophia tending the body.
      I never considered it to be the astral and etheric of Christ. Is that
      what you are getting at? Which would seem to possibly be one part of
      the sevenfold mystery of this picture. And, again, we would have to
      remember that it is not only at the death but also before the death
      that we have these pictures of the Magdalene at the feet and also
      annointing the head. But maybe I misunderstand you.

      As for 'who woke her up', Christ is to have said she was already one
      who could see the Light, and I take that as the Sophia. What 'woke'
      her up is actually the Word. She was the first to hear the 'Word'
      transformed, and that men could now hear it again as in the time of
      old. Well, truth be told I am flying on a wing and a prayer with that
      last comment. But it is a good question as to who or what woke her
      up. I'd say it was the transformed Word.

      All good things,

      Dottie
    • dottie zold
      ... Another thing occurs to me and that is that the Shekinah is at the physical existance of the Godhead or maybe a way to say it is the representation of God
      Message 2 of 18 , Aug 3, 2005
        > As I understand the those standing at the foot are the
        > representations of the Heavenly and Earthly Sophia tending the body.
        > I never considered it to be the astral and etheric of Christ. Is that
        > what you are getting at? Which would seem to possibly be one part of
        > the sevenfold mystery of this picture. And, again, we would have to
        > remember that it is not only at the death but also before the death
        > that we have these pictures of the Magdalene at the feet and also
        > annointing the head. But maybe I misunderstand you.

        Another thing occurs to me and that is that the Shekinah is at the
        physical existance of the Godhead or maybe a way to say it is the
        representation of God manifested. In that She sits at the bottom, it is
        also through Her that the top is infused: it comes from the Earthly
        level to the Heavenly level as we are rising. So, it could be that the
        Magdalene is the very representation of this Shekinah and then again at
        the top of the head as well. At the top She becomes the 'virgin', so
        infused by the bottom. As we are in the earthly realm it might be
        correct to also look at it from that level. When we consider further
        that we have the Magdalene annointing not only the feet but also the
        head I do believe this gives an indication of her earthly capacity of
        representing the fishes (feet) to the scales (virgin). At least this
        seems to be where I have been heading for quite a few years. I guess
        the language is now getting a bit clearer for me.

        Thanks Stephen, for the conversation which leads to further study for
        me.
        Dottie
      • Steve Hale
        ... and ... soul ... she ... saying ... body. ... that ... of ... to ... death ... one ... What woke ... of ... that ... Steiner gave an excellent single
        Message 3 of 18 , Aug 4, 2005
          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "dottie zold"
          <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
          > Stephen:
          > > Well, for an astral body and an etheric body to be at the head
          and
          > > foot of the empty grave, as perceived by Mary Magdalene, the
          soul
          > is
          > > proven to have existed in the Nathan Jesus, correct? And when
          she
          > > sees the gardener who wakes her up, who's he?
          >
          > Pardon my thickness Stephen, I do not understand what you are
          saying
          > here. Would you please rephrase it?
          >
          > As I understand the those standing at the foot are the
          > representations of the Heavenly and Earthly Sophia tending the
          body.
          > I never considered it to be the astral and etheric of Christ. Is
          that
          > what you are getting at? Which would seem to possibly be one part
          of
          > the sevenfold mystery of this picture. And, again, we would have
          to
          > remember that it is not only at the death but also before the
          death
          > that we have these pictures of the Magdalene at the feet and also
          > annointing the head. But maybe I misunderstand you.
          >
          > As for 'who woke her up', Christ is to have said she was already
          one
          > who could see the Light, and I take that as the Sophia.
          What 'woke'
          > her up is actually the Word. She was the first to hear the 'Word'
          > transformed, and that men could now hear it again as in the time
          of
          > old. Well, truth be told I am flying on a wing and a prayer with
          that
          > last comment. But it is a good question as to who or what woke her
          > up. I'd say it was the transformed Word.
          >
          > All good things,
          >
          > Dottie

          Steiner gave an excellent single lecture entitled: Jesus and Christ,
          on Oct. 4, 1911, just before the major lecture course, "From Jesus
          To Christ", at Karslruhe from Oct. 5-14, 1911. And in this single
          lecture he expresses the important fact that when the Buddha and
          Zarathustra Streams converge in Jesus at the age of twelve, that the
          two mystery streams of the ancients also converged therein. One was
          an etheric path wherein the neophyte was taken into his inner self
          in order to find the God man, and the other took the student out of
          his body for an astral communion with the macrocosm, and the
          experience of "that thou art". Thus, the one path was the path of
          the microcosm and the other the path of the macrocosm. Both led to
          the experience of Universal Human. And the disciple took on his
          white garment; his nainsook to use a fine biblical term for it. And
          as a result of his initiation, he knew he bore an immortal soul, as
          his past lives were now there within this fine white garment that he
          now consciously possessed. And he became a warrior of the fourth
          stage of initiation.

          When Mary Magdalene sees two Angels at the foot and head of the
          empty tomb, she asks: "Where have they taken him"? And then, in
          seeing the gardener while weeping, a voice coming from the gardener
          says: "Mary!" And only then does she know Who the gardener is; The
          Risen Christ. Now, this is all covered quite well in Steiner's
          lectures on the Gospel of St. John, and the explanation of who the
          two Angels are, i.e., the etheric and astral bodies of Jesus having
          vacated the physical corpse. The Gospel of Mark lectures even say
          that the two Mary's see the young man from the night before, wearing
          the fine linen garment that had fallen to the ground when Jesus was
          taken into custody, but herein no reference is made to a gardener.
          And only the Luke gospel refers to the young man of Nain, which
          Steiner describes in his lecture cycle on the Gospel of Luke as
          being the Linga Sharira of the Matthew Jesus. And the Gospel of
          Matthew lectures make a profound imapct in emphasizing the two great
          streams flowing down out of the Godhead; the stream of 77
          generations to Joseph, and the stream of 42 generations to Joseph.
          And how the Hebrews are the chosen ones to prepare the physical
          hereditary bloodline for the incarnation of Zarathustra Himself into
          the boy born in a house in Bethlehem.

          Now, these two streams were originally vested in the first two
          students of Zarathustra; the one student being of contemporaneous
          space, and the other student being the student of uncreated time.
          Then, uncreated time got broken into creation, and the 42
          generations of Abraham commenced the specific downward tendency to
          the Matthew Jesus, while the spatial stream remained unabated. So,
          of necessity, the time stream and the space streams had to flow
          together for the future evolution of mankind. The Fifth Gospel is
          the supersensible gospel, known to the Hebrew priests even before
          the Gospel of Matthew was written, and restored two thousand years
          later by Rudolf Steiner. It fills in what the others can't discern,
          and gives us a fuller christology than has ever been known.

          Steve
        • gaelman58
          ... should ... have. ... home, ... the ... Had an experience years ago...encountered a beautiful woman who, after I did a specific thing, directed my attention
          Message 4 of 18 , Aug 4, 2005
            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "dottie zold"
            <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
            > Gaelman:
            > > I was struck by your mention of the "visitation" by Miss
            > Magdalene.
            > > With experiences like that it seems to me that one should get
            > > immediately "practical" and grounded.
            >
            > You know what's interesting Gaelman? People thinking what it
            should
            > mean or should happen once a person experiences somethings as I
            have.
            > I have seen the Christ in my room, and once in a box guiding me
            home,
            > I have seen his form in the clouds as well as that of Michael and
            > know they were for me to specifically see. But the only one who
            > appeared as a physical moving exsistance as in a bodily force was
            the
            > Magdalene.

            Had an experience years ago...encountered a beautiful woman who,
            after I did a specific thing, directed my attention to a symbol
            representing a principle...that experience is clear in my memory
            whenever I summon it...almost photographic...but I really don't know
            who the woman was or why she reminded me of the "principle"...I
            don't know what simply arose out of me or what might have been
            objective reality...so I'm not concluding anything...but I can
            describe her countenance and color and "fashion" of her "garb".
            >
            > Now, I never gave it any thought as to what that means or even
            that
            > there was a difference in my experience of these Beings. But with
            > your question it ocurrs to me that it was the Magdalene that I was
            > clearly able to experience as a seeing and a real physical
            existance.
            > The others were for me to 'believe' in the possibilities, or even
            > maybe a 'shoring up' a bit for what is in store for me. Like a
            little
            > bit at a time so as not to overwhelm me.
            >
            > But the Magdalene came straight at me in physical movement and
            from
            > above me. Almost as if one could close ones eyes and feel or even
            see
            > a sparkly energetic thingy moving at you. And you would open your
            > eyes and truly what you thought was coming at you unseen was
            actually
            > truly coming at you. And she came with a thinking possibility,
            like a
            > real possibility to interact with one on one. Like, right there in
            > your face. I never wondered what she thought about me 'batting'
            her
            > away. I did a few weeks back think on this but never before. I
            > actually try not to imagine if she understood that I thought she
            was
            > saying she was truly me in the sense that I was that incarnation.
            I
            > didn't understand that she was showing me to myself as she will
            show
            > others to themselves. Now I understand.

            Not for me to muck about with other folk's experiences...but with
            regard to the Magdalene I don't think I be forgetting that she's a
            human being...and would observe the amenities...that is, she
            wouldn't come unless summoned...whereas those other deceiving
            buggers would show up as they determined and would probably put on a
            hell of a light show for purposes of impression...and she'd probably
            have something to say to another human being which would be exactly
            germane to the business at hand.
            >
            > But I want to say there is a very grave misundertanding as to who
            can
            > see her and also the Christ and what that must mean for their
            moral
            > lives and such. It is not as others say. It really is a weeping
            > heart that calls them forth. My heart weeps in a sense for wanting
            to
            > serve. It always has and I imagine it always will. I am not
            perfect
            > as can be seen by this list however I do have such a perfect
            heart. I
            > do so love everyone. And I do so stand at the service of the
            Queen.
            > And I think that my deep desire, which must come from the
            beginning
            > of time, is what calls them to me

            What you say here is essentially what Steiner says in the
            Lecture, "The Mission of Reverence", 28 Oct 1909...."The
            Consciousness Soul will never gain a knowledge of external objects
            unless love and devotion inspire its quest; otherwise the objects
            will not be truly observed."




            It's not that I have acheived
            > Consciousness Soul or Spirit Self, or have attained the three
            > whatever it was that Terence spoke on, it is none of that. It is
            my
            > pure desire to serve and to grow to learn how to better serve.
            >
            > So, I may not seem practical but I am very. I may not seem
            > intellectual but I am very. I may not seem balanced but I am very.
            > And the reason is because the grace that has been bestowed upon me
            to
            > experience the Christ and the Magdalene and the Sophia and the
            > Michael have pulled me to the center of my core. And I still make
            > great mistakes. But I do try so very very hard. And that is what I
            > think it takes: a trying, weeping, swashbuckling, sailor swearing
            > heart that is very meek within.
            >
            > Doesn't your heart weep Gaelman? I sense that it does.

            But Dottie, Oi'm an Oirishman...what would ye expect?...Katy Feeny
            sings a song, "The Most of All", Mother Mary singing to her infant
            son knowing full well what's in store for Him...I can't listen to it
            without weeping.


            >
            > And I will tell you a secret: I don't tell these things to make
            > myself look good: if anything it makes me look unbalanced,
            boastful,
            > and I catch a lot of slack for just suggesting it. But I do it for
            > Them. They want people to know that They are about. And I am fine
            > with that.

            Ride light in the saddle and laugh at solemnity,eh?...regards,
            Gaelman
            >
            > All good things,
            > Dottie
          • adm_anthroposophia
            Queen of Red. King of White. Unite! Turn the Universe into Pink. Xandor ... have. ... home, ... the ... existance. ... little ... see ... actually ... a ...
            Message 5 of 18 , Aug 4, 2005
              Queen of Red. King of White. Unite! Turn the Universe into Pink.

              Xandor




              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "dottie zold"
              <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
              > Gaelman:
              > > I was struck by your mention of the "visitation" by Miss
              > Magdalene.
              > > With experiences like that it seems to me that one should get
              > > immediately "practical" and grounded.
              >
              > You know what's interesting Gaelman? People thinking what it should
              > mean or should happen once a person experiences somethings as I
              have.
              > I have seen the Christ in my room, and once in a box guiding me
              home,
              > I have seen his form in the clouds as well as that of Michael and
              > know they were for me to specifically see. But the only one who
              > appeared as a physical moving exsistance as in a bodily force was
              the
              > Magdalene.
              >
              > Now, I never gave it any thought as to what that means or even that
              > there was a difference in my experience of these Beings. But with
              > your question it ocurrs to me that it was the Magdalene that I was
              > clearly able to experience as a seeing and a real physical
              existance.
              > The others were for me to 'believe' in the possibilities, or even
              > maybe a 'shoring up' a bit for what is in store for me. Like a
              little
              > bit at a time so as not to overwhelm me.
              >
              > But the Magdalene came straight at me in physical movement and from
              > above me. Almost as if one could close ones eyes and feel or even
              see
              > a sparkly energetic thingy moving at you. And you would open your
              > eyes and truly what you thought was coming at you unseen was
              actually
              > truly coming at you. And she came with a thinking possibility, like
              a
              > real possibility to interact with one on one. Like, right there in
              > your face. I never wondered what she thought about me 'batting' her
              > away. I did a few weeks back think on this but never before. I
              > actually try not to imagine if she understood that I thought she
              was
              > saying she was truly me in the sense that I was that incarnation. I
              > didn't understand that she was showing me to myself as she will
              show
              > others to themselves. Now I understand.
              >
              > But I want to say there is a very grave misundertanding as to who
              can
              > see her and also the Christ and what that must mean for their moral
              > lives and such. It is not as others say. It really is a weeping
              > heart that calls them forth. My heart weeps in a sense for wanting
              to
              > serve. It always has and I imagine it always will. I am not perfect
              > as can be seen by this list however I do have such a perfect heart.
              I
              > do so love everyone. And I do so stand at the service of the Queen.
              > And I think that my deep desire, which must come from the beginning
              > of time, is what calls them to me. It's not that I have acheived
              > Consciousness Soul or Spirit Self, or have attained the three
              > whatever it was that Terence spoke on, it is none of that. It is my
              > pure desire to serve and to grow to learn how to better serve.
              >
              > So, I may not seem practical but I am very. I may not seem
              > intellectual but I am very. I may not seem balanced but I am very.
              > And the reason is because the grace that has been bestowed upon me
              to
              > experience the Christ and the Magdalene and the Sophia and the
              > Michael have pulled me to the center of my core. And I still make
              > great mistakes. But I do try so very very hard. And that is what I
              > think it takes: a trying, weeping, swashbuckling, sailor swearing
              > heart that is very meek within.
              >
              > Doesn't your heart weep Gaelman? I sense that it does.
              >
              > And I will tell you a secret: I don't tell these things to make
              > myself look good: if anything it makes me look unbalanced,
              boastful,
              > and I catch a lot of slack for just suggesting it. But I do it for
              > Them. They want people to know that They are about. And I am fine
              > with that.
              >
              > All good things,
              > Dottie
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