Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Adams Sister Soul

Expand Messages
  • Steve Hale
    ... converged ... prepare ... passions ... stream ... be ... to ... this ... because I ... Rather, I ... Jesus ... seems to ... own ... states ... that ... the
    Message 1 of 18 , Aug 3, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "dottie zold"
      <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
      > Stephen:
      > > We know that the Buddha stream and the Zarathurstra stream
      converged
      > in
      > > the young boy at twelve, and he retained his soul in order to
      prepare
      > > it for the greater experiences to come, and to realize the
      passions
      > > that would quicken this soul for the redemption.
      >
      > Dr. Steiner states that teh Buddha stream and the Zarathusthra
      stream
      > converge on the Nathan Jesus at twelve? And if he did, wouldn't it
      be
      > in two completely different manners as the Zarathusthra soul came
      to
      > live within the Nathan Jesus?
      >
      > I have not come to the same understanding as you have regarding
      this
      > sister soul of Adam remaining in the body. But that could be
      because I
      > have not contemplated this nor have been inspired about it.
      Rather, I
      > have been inspired to understand that the soul of this Nathan
      Jesus
      > left the body at the incoming of the Christ or just before. It
      seems to
      > me that Dr. Steiner relates the body as being specifically on its
      own
      > and living off the Zarathusthra forces. I mean he specifically
      states
      > this but he never does state what happens to this Nathan soul.
      >
      > If you are correct in your inspirations than it would seem to me
      that
      > the spirit of the Nathan soul is the spirit that is seen fleeing
      the
      > scene at the Judas kiss. And then that could also possibly explain
      how
      > it is that the being Anthroposophia is an invisible human being
      that
      > walks amongst men. But that seems a bit to easy for me in a way. I
      am
      > tending to contemplate that when Dr. STeiner speaks of the
      MarySophia
      > being coming from the cosmos hence making the 'stepmother' a
      virgin,
      > what we really are led to is the idea that the SophiaMary or what
      I am
      > calling the sister soul of Adam leaves Jesus and enters into the
      step
      > mother. Dr. STeiner is not explicit although he does say she comes
      from
      > the spiritual worlds and not specifically from the Nathan Jesus.
      >
      > Are you open to the idea that you may be incorrect or are you sure
      of
      > this understanding as to the soul remaining in the Nathan Jesus? I
      > would like to present something from the Fifth Gospel, for you or
      for
      > others who want to look at this, that speaks to the body being by
      > itself. Maybe from there you can share how it is that it has come
      to
      > your inspirations that this sister soul of Adam remains within the
      > body. I have to say it does not feel correct to me but I am open
      minded
      > to the possibility. It is a big point to consider and I think that
      is
      > more important in fact than what happened to the body, and even
      more
      > important that we get it right.
      >
      > Best,
      > Dottie

      Well, for an astral body and an etheric body to be at the head and
      foot of the empty grave, as perceived by Mary Magdalene, the soul is
      proven to have existed in the Nathan Jesus, correct? And when she
      sees the gardener who wakes her up, who's he?

      Steve
    • dottie zold
      Friends I just have to share this little piece from Dennis Klocek s book Knowledge, Teaching and teh Death of thy Mysteries: Adult Education: 2000 You take a
      Message 2 of 18 , Aug 3, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Friends I just have to share this little piece from
        Dennis Klocek's book Knowledge, Teaching and teh Death
        of thy Mysteries:

        Adult Education: 2000

        "You take a picture from teh natural world, you hold
        it and try to unfold it sequence to sequence. A
        picture will form in you as a process of becoming.
        When you do that, you have directly entered your
        etheric body, that is imagination. In the beginning it
        is an imagination with a little i. If it is taken as a
        practice - a regular, rhythmical practice - and again
        and again you form a leaf and try to see how the leaf
        would grow, growing it in your inner eye, that is
        meditation. It is an etheric meditation on the formal
        principle behind the leaf.

        If it is incorrect, and you keep persisting in the
        rhythm, it will be corrected. It will be corrected by
        the beings who stand behind those ether forces in the
        natural world. They will come to you because suddenly
        here is a human being who is showing an extraordinary
        interest in their activity. Just think how you would
        feel if you ahd been laboring your whole life to do
        something in obscurity, and suddenly some being poked
        his head through into the space where you were working
        and said, "Wow! That is really cool, what you are
        doing!" What would you do? You would turn to him and
        say, 'Hey! Where have you been all my life?" That is
        just what the beings who are serving the Christ Being
        and teh Hierarchies in nature will do when you start
        to pay attention to them in the way they need to be
        paid attention to, which is in a lawful way.

        Goethe called this practice 'exact sense perception'.
        It is a great tool for the Waldorf teachers. Take
        anything that you are struggling with in a block, in a
        science block especially, and just try to picture it.
        But don't picture it as a dead thing; picture it with
        a sensitivity towards how it looked just before it got
        to where it is now. Then take that a step back, and
        then a step back. If you can get two or three steps
        back, you are in your ether body. That is right from
        Rudolf Steiner'. You are in your ether body if you can
        begin to see this process inwardly in an exact way. It
        has to be exact - and there is a danger. The danger is
        that when you do that, and you start to actually see
        pictures, you will think: one, that you made them; and
        two, that they are correct. So we have to make that
        more rigorous.

        What we do is to go from the ether body into the
        astral body, because the astral body is where the
        action is. Taht is where the adversaries are building
        little fast food places where they hang out, waiting
        for lunch. WE need to find a way in there, and teh way
        we find in, which osunds paradoxical, is that 'after'
        we form the exact picture we have to think it away
        into complete and utter silence. When we think it away
        into complete utter silence, we have entered directly
        into our astral body, according to Rudolf Steiner.
        When we participate in the astral body, the danger is
        that in the astral body we hvae the experiencces that
        we have no form, because the form comes from the
        etheric pole."

        Dottie:

        This man is so amazing. Really. It's like reading
        Rudolf Steiner it is so simplistic yet so very deep
        and oh so very very funny. Dr. Steiner makes me laugh,
        he always has, and now so does Mr. Klocek. He has a
        great thought on how we 'turn the will' and a great
        ongoing conversation with the hiearchies asking 'why
        are they following those retarded beings with
        everything we give them?:))))) Oh God it is so
        wonderful to read a modern day man after the likes of
        Dr. Steiner. Truly it is.

        I think this is a great book for people who want to
        know what Dr. Steiner' teachings are about. I mean Mr.
        Klocek expresses Dr. Steiner's thoughts in such
        simplistic terms that I can hear Dr. Steiner saying
        'hey, why didn't I think to say it like that, thanks
        Dennis' :)) Really it is that good and simplified.
        Maybe I will share a part of his thoughts on the
        'turning of the will' tomorrow. It's pretty stunning
        and again simplistic.

        All good things,
        Dottie



        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        http://mail.yahoo.com
      • dottie zold
        ... is ... Pardon my thickness Stephen, I do not understand what you are saying here. Would you please rephrase it? As I understand the those standing at the
        Message 3 of 18 , Aug 3, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Stephen:
          > Well, for an astral body and an etheric body to be at the head and
          > foot of the empty grave, as perceived by Mary Magdalene, the soul
          is
          > proven to have existed in the Nathan Jesus, correct? And when she
          > sees the gardener who wakes her up, who's he?

          Pardon my thickness Stephen, I do not understand what you are saying
          here. Would you please rephrase it?

          As I understand the those standing at the foot are the
          representations of the Heavenly and Earthly Sophia tending the body.
          I never considered it to be the astral and etheric of Christ. Is that
          what you are getting at? Which would seem to possibly be one part of
          the sevenfold mystery of this picture. And, again, we would have to
          remember that it is not only at the death but also before the death
          that we have these pictures of the Magdalene at the feet and also
          annointing the head. But maybe I misunderstand you.

          As for 'who woke her up', Christ is to have said she was already one
          who could see the Light, and I take that as the Sophia. What 'woke'
          her up is actually the Word. She was the first to hear the 'Word'
          transformed, and that men could now hear it again as in the time of
          old. Well, truth be told I am flying on a wing and a prayer with that
          last comment. But it is a good question as to who or what woke her
          up. I'd say it was the transformed Word.

          All good things,

          Dottie
        • dottie zold
          ... Another thing occurs to me and that is that the Shekinah is at the physical existance of the Godhead or maybe a way to say it is the representation of God
          Message 4 of 18 , Aug 3, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            > As I understand the those standing at the foot are the
            > representations of the Heavenly and Earthly Sophia tending the body.
            > I never considered it to be the astral and etheric of Christ. Is that
            > what you are getting at? Which would seem to possibly be one part of
            > the sevenfold mystery of this picture. And, again, we would have to
            > remember that it is not only at the death but also before the death
            > that we have these pictures of the Magdalene at the feet and also
            > annointing the head. But maybe I misunderstand you.

            Another thing occurs to me and that is that the Shekinah is at the
            physical existance of the Godhead or maybe a way to say it is the
            representation of God manifested. In that She sits at the bottom, it is
            also through Her that the top is infused: it comes from the Earthly
            level to the Heavenly level as we are rising. So, it could be that the
            Magdalene is the very representation of this Shekinah and then again at
            the top of the head as well. At the top She becomes the 'virgin', so
            infused by the bottom. As we are in the earthly realm it might be
            correct to also look at it from that level. When we consider further
            that we have the Magdalene annointing not only the feet but also the
            head I do believe this gives an indication of her earthly capacity of
            representing the fishes (feet) to the scales (virgin). At least this
            seems to be where I have been heading for quite a few years. I guess
            the language is now getting a bit clearer for me.

            Thanks Stephen, for the conversation which leads to further study for
            me.
            Dottie
          • Steve Hale
            ... and ... soul ... she ... saying ... body. ... that ... of ... to ... death ... one ... What woke ... of ... that ... Steiner gave an excellent single
            Message 5 of 18 , Aug 4, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "dottie zold"
              <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
              > Stephen:
              > > Well, for an astral body and an etheric body to be at the head
              and
              > > foot of the empty grave, as perceived by Mary Magdalene, the
              soul
              > is
              > > proven to have existed in the Nathan Jesus, correct? And when
              she
              > > sees the gardener who wakes her up, who's he?
              >
              > Pardon my thickness Stephen, I do not understand what you are
              saying
              > here. Would you please rephrase it?
              >
              > As I understand the those standing at the foot are the
              > representations of the Heavenly and Earthly Sophia tending the
              body.
              > I never considered it to be the astral and etheric of Christ. Is
              that
              > what you are getting at? Which would seem to possibly be one part
              of
              > the sevenfold mystery of this picture. And, again, we would have
              to
              > remember that it is not only at the death but also before the
              death
              > that we have these pictures of the Magdalene at the feet and also
              > annointing the head. But maybe I misunderstand you.
              >
              > As for 'who woke her up', Christ is to have said she was already
              one
              > who could see the Light, and I take that as the Sophia.
              What 'woke'
              > her up is actually the Word. She was the first to hear the 'Word'
              > transformed, and that men could now hear it again as in the time
              of
              > old. Well, truth be told I am flying on a wing and a prayer with
              that
              > last comment. But it is a good question as to who or what woke her
              > up. I'd say it was the transformed Word.
              >
              > All good things,
              >
              > Dottie

              Steiner gave an excellent single lecture entitled: Jesus and Christ,
              on Oct. 4, 1911, just before the major lecture course, "From Jesus
              To Christ", at Karslruhe from Oct. 5-14, 1911. And in this single
              lecture he expresses the important fact that when the Buddha and
              Zarathustra Streams converge in Jesus at the age of twelve, that the
              two mystery streams of the ancients also converged therein. One was
              an etheric path wherein the neophyte was taken into his inner self
              in order to find the God man, and the other took the student out of
              his body for an astral communion with the macrocosm, and the
              experience of "that thou art". Thus, the one path was the path of
              the microcosm and the other the path of the macrocosm. Both led to
              the experience of Universal Human. And the disciple took on his
              white garment; his nainsook to use a fine biblical term for it. And
              as a result of his initiation, he knew he bore an immortal soul, as
              his past lives were now there within this fine white garment that he
              now consciously possessed. And he became a warrior of the fourth
              stage of initiation.

              When Mary Magdalene sees two Angels at the foot and head of the
              empty tomb, she asks: "Where have they taken him"? And then, in
              seeing the gardener while weeping, a voice coming from the gardener
              says: "Mary!" And only then does she know Who the gardener is; The
              Risen Christ. Now, this is all covered quite well in Steiner's
              lectures on the Gospel of St. John, and the explanation of who the
              two Angels are, i.e., the etheric and astral bodies of Jesus having
              vacated the physical corpse. The Gospel of Mark lectures even say
              that the two Mary's see the young man from the night before, wearing
              the fine linen garment that had fallen to the ground when Jesus was
              taken into custody, but herein no reference is made to a gardener.
              And only the Luke gospel refers to the young man of Nain, which
              Steiner describes in his lecture cycle on the Gospel of Luke as
              being the Linga Sharira of the Matthew Jesus. And the Gospel of
              Matthew lectures make a profound imapct in emphasizing the two great
              streams flowing down out of the Godhead; the stream of 77
              generations to Joseph, and the stream of 42 generations to Joseph.
              And how the Hebrews are the chosen ones to prepare the physical
              hereditary bloodline for the incarnation of Zarathustra Himself into
              the boy born in a house in Bethlehem.

              Now, these two streams were originally vested in the first two
              students of Zarathustra; the one student being of contemporaneous
              space, and the other student being the student of uncreated time.
              Then, uncreated time got broken into creation, and the 42
              generations of Abraham commenced the specific downward tendency to
              the Matthew Jesus, while the spatial stream remained unabated. So,
              of necessity, the time stream and the space streams had to flow
              together for the future evolution of mankind. The Fifth Gospel is
              the supersensible gospel, known to the Hebrew priests even before
              the Gospel of Matthew was written, and restored two thousand years
              later by Rudolf Steiner. It fills in what the others can't discern,
              and gives us a fuller christology than has ever been known.

              Steve
            • gaelman58
              ... should ... have. ... home, ... the ... Had an experience years ago...encountered a beautiful woman who, after I did a specific thing, directed my attention
              Message 6 of 18 , Aug 4, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "dottie zold"
                <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
                > Gaelman:
                > > I was struck by your mention of the "visitation" by Miss
                > Magdalene.
                > > With experiences like that it seems to me that one should get
                > > immediately "practical" and grounded.
                >
                > You know what's interesting Gaelman? People thinking what it
                should
                > mean or should happen once a person experiences somethings as I
                have.
                > I have seen the Christ in my room, and once in a box guiding me
                home,
                > I have seen his form in the clouds as well as that of Michael and
                > know they were for me to specifically see. But the only one who
                > appeared as a physical moving exsistance as in a bodily force was
                the
                > Magdalene.

                Had an experience years ago...encountered a beautiful woman who,
                after I did a specific thing, directed my attention to a symbol
                representing a principle...that experience is clear in my memory
                whenever I summon it...almost photographic...but I really don't know
                who the woman was or why she reminded me of the "principle"...I
                don't know what simply arose out of me or what might have been
                objective reality...so I'm not concluding anything...but I can
                describe her countenance and color and "fashion" of her "garb".
                >
                > Now, I never gave it any thought as to what that means or even
                that
                > there was a difference in my experience of these Beings. But with
                > your question it ocurrs to me that it was the Magdalene that I was
                > clearly able to experience as a seeing and a real physical
                existance.
                > The others were for me to 'believe' in the possibilities, or even
                > maybe a 'shoring up' a bit for what is in store for me. Like a
                little
                > bit at a time so as not to overwhelm me.
                >
                > But the Magdalene came straight at me in physical movement and
                from
                > above me. Almost as if one could close ones eyes and feel or even
                see
                > a sparkly energetic thingy moving at you. And you would open your
                > eyes and truly what you thought was coming at you unseen was
                actually
                > truly coming at you. And she came with a thinking possibility,
                like a
                > real possibility to interact with one on one. Like, right there in
                > your face. I never wondered what she thought about me 'batting'
                her
                > away. I did a few weeks back think on this but never before. I
                > actually try not to imagine if she understood that I thought she
                was
                > saying she was truly me in the sense that I was that incarnation.
                I
                > didn't understand that she was showing me to myself as she will
                show
                > others to themselves. Now I understand.

                Not for me to muck about with other folk's experiences...but with
                regard to the Magdalene I don't think I be forgetting that she's a
                human being...and would observe the amenities...that is, she
                wouldn't come unless summoned...whereas those other deceiving
                buggers would show up as they determined and would probably put on a
                hell of a light show for purposes of impression...and she'd probably
                have something to say to another human being which would be exactly
                germane to the business at hand.
                >
                > But I want to say there is a very grave misundertanding as to who
                can
                > see her and also the Christ and what that must mean for their
                moral
                > lives and such. It is not as others say. It really is a weeping
                > heart that calls them forth. My heart weeps in a sense for wanting
                to
                > serve. It always has and I imagine it always will. I am not
                perfect
                > as can be seen by this list however I do have such a perfect
                heart. I
                > do so love everyone. And I do so stand at the service of the
                Queen.
                > And I think that my deep desire, which must come from the
                beginning
                > of time, is what calls them to me

                What you say here is essentially what Steiner says in the
                Lecture, "The Mission of Reverence", 28 Oct 1909...."The
                Consciousness Soul will never gain a knowledge of external objects
                unless love and devotion inspire its quest; otherwise the objects
                will not be truly observed."




                It's not that I have acheived
                > Consciousness Soul or Spirit Self, or have attained the three
                > whatever it was that Terence spoke on, it is none of that. It is
                my
                > pure desire to serve and to grow to learn how to better serve.
                >
                > So, I may not seem practical but I am very. I may not seem
                > intellectual but I am very. I may not seem balanced but I am very.
                > And the reason is because the grace that has been bestowed upon me
                to
                > experience the Christ and the Magdalene and the Sophia and the
                > Michael have pulled me to the center of my core. And I still make
                > great mistakes. But I do try so very very hard. And that is what I
                > think it takes: a trying, weeping, swashbuckling, sailor swearing
                > heart that is very meek within.
                >
                > Doesn't your heart weep Gaelman? I sense that it does.

                But Dottie, Oi'm an Oirishman...what would ye expect?...Katy Feeny
                sings a song, "The Most of All", Mother Mary singing to her infant
                son knowing full well what's in store for Him...I can't listen to it
                without weeping.


                >
                > And I will tell you a secret: I don't tell these things to make
                > myself look good: if anything it makes me look unbalanced,
                boastful,
                > and I catch a lot of slack for just suggesting it. But I do it for
                > Them. They want people to know that They are about. And I am fine
                > with that.

                Ride light in the saddle and laugh at solemnity,eh?...regards,
                Gaelman
                >
                > All good things,
                > Dottie
              • adm_anthroposophia
                Queen of Red. King of White. Unite! Turn the Universe into Pink. Xandor ... have. ... home, ... the ... existance. ... little ... see ... actually ... a ...
                Message 7 of 18 , Aug 4, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Queen of Red. King of White. Unite! Turn the Universe into Pink.

                  Xandor




                  --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "dottie zold"
                  <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
                  > Gaelman:
                  > > I was struck by your mention of the "visitation" by Miss
                  > Magdalene.
                  > > With experiences like that it seems to me that one should get
                  > > immediately "practical" and grounded.
                  >
                  > You know what's interesting Gaelman? People thinking what it should
                  > mean or should happen once a person experiences somethings as I
                  have.
                  > I have seen the Christ in my room, and once in a box guiding me
                  home,
                  > I have seen his form in the clouds as well as that of Michael and
                  > know they were for me to specifically see. But the only one who
                  > appeared as a physical moving exsistance as in a bodily force was
                  the
                  > Magdalene.
                  >
                  > Now, I never gave it any thought as to what that means or even that
                  > there was a difference in my experience of these Beings. But with
                  > your question it ocurrs to me that it was the Magdalene that I was
                  > clearly able to experience as a seeing and a real physical
                  existance.
                  > The others were for me to 'believe' in the possibilities, or even
                  > maybe a 'shoring up' a bit for what is in store for me. Like a
                  little
                  > bit at a time so as not to overwhelm me.
                  >
                  > But the Magdalene came straight at me in physical movement and from
                  > above me. Almost as if one could close ones eyes and feel or even
                  see
                  > a sparkly energetic thingy moving at you. And you would open your
                  > eyes and truly what you thought was coming at you unseen was
                  actually
                  > truly coming at you. And she came with a thinking possibility, like
                  a
                  > real possibility to interact with one on one. Like, right there in
                  > your face. I never wondered what she thought about me 'batting' her
                  > away. I did a few weeks back think on this but never before. I
                  > actually try not to imagine if she understood that I thought she
                  was
                  > saying she was truly me in the sense that I was that incarnation. I
                  > didn't understand that she was showing me to myself as she will
                  show
                  > others to themselves. Now I understand.
                  >
                  > But I want to say there is a very grave misundertanding as to who
                  can
                  > see her and also the Christ and what that must mean for their moral
                  > lives and such. It is not as others say. It really is a weeping
                  > heart that calls them forth. My heart weeps in a sense for wanting
                  to
                  > serve. It always has and I imagine it always will. I am not perfect
                  > as can be seen by this list however I do have such a perfect heart.
                  I
                  > do so love everyone. And I do so stand at the service of the Queen.
                  > And I think that my deep desire, which must come from the beginning
                  > of time, is what calls them to me. It's not that I have acheived
                  > Consciousness Soul or Spirit Self, or have attained the three
                  > whatever it was that Terence spoke on, it is none of that. It is my
                  > pure desire to serve and to grow to learn how to better serve.
                  >
                  > So, I may not seem practical but I am very. I may not seem
                  > intellectual but I am very. I may not seem balanced but I am very.
                  > And the reason is because the grace that has been bestowed upon me
                  to
                  > experience the Christ and the Magdalene and the Sophia and the
                  > Michael have pulled me to the center of my core. And I still make
                  > great mistakes. But I do try so very very hard. And that is what I
                  > think it takes: a trying, weeping, swashbuckling, sailor swearing
                  > heart that is very meek within.
                  >
                  > Doesn't your heart weep Gaelman? I sense that it does.
                  >
                  > And I will tell you a secret: I don't tell these things to make
                  > myself look good: if anything it makes me look unbalanced,
                  boastful,
                  > and I catch a lot of slack for just suggesting it. But I do it for
                  > Them. They want people to know that They are about. And I am fine
                  > with that.
                  >
                  > All good things,
                  > Dottie
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.