Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Lucifer

Expand Messages
  • dottie zold
    ... Book of Changes, namely, Fu Hsi, King Wen, the Duke of Chou, and Confucius. Fu Hsi is a legendary figure representing the era of hunting and fishing and of
    Message 1 of 34 , Feb 1, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      Gisele wrote:
      > In Chinese literature four holy men are cited as the authors of the
      Book of Changes, namely, Fu Hsi, King Wen, the Duke of Chou, and
      Confucius. Fu Hsi is a legendary figure representing the era of
      hunting and fishing and of the invention of cooking. The fact that he
      is designated as the inventor of the linear signs of the Book of
      Changes means that they have been held to be of such antiquity that
      they antedate historical memory...

      Hi Gisele,

      I came back to your post to check the name you have given for the
      supposed Luciferic incarnation. And you have the same as Andrea! I
      have found a few other names besides the ones shared by Kim and they
      are Pao Hsi or Pi Hsi.

      I bought a book a few months back called The I Ching of the Goddess
      by Barbara G. Walker. She seems to be the 'it' woman of the Goddess
      from a scholarly level, similar to Elaine Pagels it seems. It is
      pretty amazing that she actually denotes the I Ching as being of the
      Feminine Divine and that this is what was achieved through Nu Kwa and
      Fu Hsi.

      Ms. Walker has the feminine aspect changing around the time of
      Confucious and turning into a Patriarachel point of view. I am not at
      all familiar with this to really know of what the changes are
      specifically or even if there were any. The other name you mention
      King Wen is noted by Ms. Walker as the chief culprit of the mixing up
      of the natural foundation of the I Ching. She goes onto show how King
      Wen's formations hold no consistancy and that the real I Ching
      proceeds through Fu Hsi's undertaking.

      Once again however we find the world forming from the 'Mother Deep'
      the 'Tao', or in other words the 'Mothers' Womb'. I am having a very
      hard and bothered time by finding once again these things mixed up
      and hidden. I remember this exasperated feeling when finding the
      Magdalene and what had been hidden. I am not even talking about my
      Lazarus understanding rather the fact that she was an absolutely
      stunning individual and the Messenger of Christ thrown away by men
      who used her sexuality to higher their own claims.

      Ms. Walker notes on page 13:
      "There must have been a compelling reason for taking apart so nicely
      balanced an arragement as Fu Hsi's, mixing it up, and destroying all
      its former elegance. It may well have been the same reason that led
      other patriarchal societies to destroy reminders of earlier
      matriarchal works throughout the world: to batten down temples of the
      Goddess despite their beauty, to burn pagan libraries despite the
      value of their books, to deny the sovereignty of nature despite its
      apparent inevitability. Like Jewish, Christian, and Islamic
      patriarchates, China's Confucian hierarchies attacked every aspect of
      the earlier culture that revered motherhood as the world-creating
      principle, established all family names upon the sign for "woman,"
      and practiced sexual worship of the female power that was supposed to
      be the source of all mind, rationality, and inspiration."

      Why oh why oh why,
      Dottie

      p.s. A few months back when I bought this book I had no understanding
      at all when reading it. I didn't have a connection until Fu Hsi and
      Nu Kwa and what a difference today. Maybe my angel knew I would have
      spent my whole vacation on this new stream and decided to let it go
      for the time being. Thank goodeness for Anthroposophy Tomorrow! and
      Kim, Andrea, Gisele and Christine as well as those that hold the
      space for learning. Thank you!
    • Kim Graae Munch
      Dottie, Abel was killed, and I translate it to that he was not incarnated on the Earth, for several reason s. Firstly I see this as a symbolic story, so the
      Message 34 of 34 , Sep 22, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Message
        Dottie, Abel was killed, and I translate it to that he was not incarnated on the Earth, for several reason's. Firstly I see this as a symbolic story, so the deaths means he don't incarnate in the physical world. If it was the real world he would just reincarnate, so it should be no problem if Cain killed him, but there evidently was. Second, was death existing at that time at all, so it must mean something else? Cain was send down to Earth, and we know him as Gilgamesh, as the first and only man on the Earth, the only one incarnating from before Atlantis, preparing the development of the physical body of man. Then Seth is born, and that happens when Enkido inkarnates and becomes man/Gilgamesh's right hand.
        We have Lucifer and Ahriman as the driving powers behind the development on the Earth, and Christ waiting to incarnate at the right time, and the only one that can be is Abel. If it's not Abel, it's hard to find a reasonable explanation for the Abel and Seth pair, at least as good as this.
        Kim


        -----Original Message-----
        From: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com [mailto:anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
        Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 5:47 PM
        To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Lucifer

         

        Kim! why do you have Able as being not? I think this is what is ultimately what is holding your attention to the lines being the opposite of how they are understood. I keep wanting to think its just you are seeing it from a different place looking in but we are looking at and from the same place so that is not the issue...its your consideration of Abel, Cain, and Seth...where do you find that Abel was not incarnated? Can we look at that again....Okay, let's go to the Bible...do you have a Bible? King James Version?  or what? If not can you get one or borrow one?

        "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

        --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:

        From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk>
        Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] Re: Lucifer
        To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
        Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 7:34 AM



        Yes, I have read it long time ago, and I had the same view as her. But I was a little dissatisfied with the disappearing Abel, and Seth, who just to the brothers place. We have a trinity everywhere, also here, but two of them should be the same? We have three, Cain are sendt to the Earth, Seth is sendt to the Earth, but Abel is not, remember spiritual beings don't die, he stays in heaven. Who is coming to the Earth as the equilibrium between Ahriman and Lucifer? Jesus! So Abel is the Son stream, Where Cain is the Mother stream, the Future, where Seth is the Father Stream, History. Cain cannot be the Father stream, as he is created by two Mothers.
        Kim
         
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:anthroposop hy_tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of dottie zold
        Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:45 PM
        To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
        Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] Re: Lucifer

         
        What is it with you and the feminine in your thinking! how do you have Cain as feminine?! oh boy...okay ima look around here....alright we have an article by Adri:
         
         

        "What does the ‘fall of man’ really mean?

        Human beings fall, as it were, to the earth. That is, when Lucifer entered into man’s Astral body, the human being was then suddenly able to see the world around him, independent of himself, he became an ego bearing being and for the first time was capable of acquiring knowledge of the world. This is what is meant by eating the apple from the ‘Tree of knowledge’ or the Astral body and the physical senses.

        This intervention was necessary. Without it humanity could not have developed freedom, it would always have been subject to higher beings and its advancement would not be won through the dint of personal effort. Death also became possible for the first time and alternating times between sleep and wakefulness.

        Humanity however, fell a little further than intended. That is, Lucifer’s influence was stronger than had been expected. Now, Higher spiritual beings were concerned lest this influence enter too far into the human sheaths. The Etheric or Life body was protected from Luciferic influence by higher beings in order that this might be prevented. In order to do this it was necessary for the human being’s Etheric body to be lifted out of his physical body. This meant that from that time on humanity began to lose its connection or cognition of Etheric forces or  ‘The tree of life’. This was taken away by lifting out of the Etheric body.

        We are told then that after this momentous event a sun Elohim that had sacrificed its female nature united with Eve and produced Cain, a representative of the Male stream.

        Then Eve is said to have united with Adam and produced Abel whose Etheric body being the opposite of his physical body was feminine and became the representative of the Female stream.

        Jehova not too pleased with a creation he had nothing to do with did not accept Cain’s sacrifice only Abel’s. Cain then kills Abel and is banished after which Adam and Eve have another child whom they call Seth.

        In this killing of Abel by Cain we can see the beginnings of egoism. When Cain is asked concerning his brother he asks, ‘Am I my brother’s keeper?’

         

        So we have two Streams – Cain and Abel."

         
         


        "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner

        --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk> wrote:

        From: Kim Graae Munch <kimgm@yahoo. co.uk>
        Subject: RE: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] Re: Lucifer
        To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
        Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 5:23 AM



        Dear Simone,
        I am not sure it was Lucifer who was father of Cain, Steiner writes this at Tarjei's place:

        There was a time when one of the Elohim created a human being whom he called Eve. That Elohim united himself with Eve and she gave birth to Cain. After this, another Elohim, named Yahveh, created Adam. Adam also united himself with Eve and from this union came Abel.

        Thus we see that Cain is a direct descendant of the gods, but Abel is a descendant of Adam and Eve who are human. Now the myth proceeds:

        The sacrifices which Abel made to Yahveh were pleasing to him, but the sacrifices brought by Cain did not please him because the birth of Cain was not ordained by him. The result was that Cain committed fratricide. He killed Abel and for this he was excluded from communion with Yahveh. He went away into distant lands and founded his own race there.

        Adam again united himself with Eve and from this union came Seth, also mentioned in the Bible, who took over the role of Abel. Thus we have two generations of mankind; the race of Cain, who was a descentant of Eve and one of the Elohim, and the other race which had human parentage and was brought into existence at the commad of Yahveh.

         I see Eva as Sophia, and she was created/Emanated from a higher godly form of the feminine, the Elohim, which is higher than Yahveh. Eva created Cain with the Elohim, so Cain was of feminine ancestry.
        Yahve created Adam, so he is masculine. Adam is the sistersoul to Jesus, he is the highest developed 'man' of the angels of the Old Moon, who chose to stay at the level of man to act as template for mankind.
         
        I hope this picture helps with the relation of Lucifer and Ahriman in relation to the tree. The Earthly Triangle is the material world, the earthly aspect of the Heavenly Triangle. You could symbolically replace Ahriman with Cain, Lucifer with Seth, and Son of Man with Abel. The Mother/Sophia/ Shekinah gives form to the physical world, and the mental soul, where lucifer gives drive, and sentient soul, and the Son gives Life and consciousness soul.
         

        Love, Kim
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:anthroposop hy_tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of sim1dmg
        Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:21 AM
        To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
        Subject: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] Re: Lucifer

         

        --- In anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com, "Kim" <kimgm@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dottie, If Ahriman is not part of the three, should Cain not be in the
        > bible. Christ, Lucifer, and Ahriman is a trinity, matching the tree.
        >
        > Ahriman is part of this world, he is this world, he is the most
        > materialistic part of this world, he is the material we are living in.
        > If you take a stone, it's Ahriman.
        >
        > Ahriman is the Moon, the forming power, Lucifer is the Sun, the creative
        > power, Christ is the Earth, Life.
        >
        > When Steiner worked in Theosophical context he used Jehova, instead of
        > Ahriman, as it was custom there. Later Steiner used Ahriman to talk
        > about the physical manifestation and Jahve to talk about the spiritual
        > being.
        >
        > Kim
        >
         
        Dear Kim,
        But according to the temple legend, isn't Cain supposed to be son of Lucifer? Also, if Ahriman is one aspect of Jehova and Jehova is on the right side of the tree, how would Ahriman be on the other side? For if Jehova= Jahve+Ahriman, and Jehova is on the right side, supposedly Ahriman  would be there too. And how Lucifer, who's on the left side of the Jewish Kaballah tree moved to the same side of Jehova?
        Love, Simone (almost falling sleep but puzzled…:)
         






      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.