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Do it on-list, mr. SH.

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  • Tarjei Straume
    A person who calls himself Steve Hale writes to me off-list. I don t like to be contacted off-list by strangers, especially not by wannabe moderators. Steve
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 31, 2004
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      A person who calls himself Steve Hale writes to me off-list. I don't like
      to be contacted off-list by strangers, especially not by wannabe moderators.

      "Steve Hale" refers to my comments on Christine's chicken-crossing-road and
      writes:

      >Taz, it is getting to be alot of bullshit, isn't it? Consider
      >Steiner saying: What does all this mean!! Is that what you had in
      >mind? Does Anthro_Tomorrow have a chance with all this hyperbole?
      >Christine, try relating to what really matters.
      >
      >There is a forum in the works that seeks to relate to what really
      >matters. It will be called, Spiritual Science Today.
      >
      >Steve Hale

      And I respond politely:

      I appreciate your concern, but it is Sophia's task to criticize what others
      post when and if necessary. She is the moderator.

      Tarjei

      But then "Steve Hale" decides to bug me once more and writes:

      >She is the moderator? I guess I didn't know this. Why would I know
      >this? Why would I care about this forum?
      >
      >I only suspect exasperation on your part. Maybe I'm wrong, but forwarding
      >"horsepucky" seems ridiculous, considering the prevalent issues. I know
      >that I should keep my nose out of it unless I join. My apologies.

      I don't know why you're writing me off-list like this, but from now on,
      I'll Duganize you, i.e. publish everything you send to me.

      I have my doubts about the future of a forum run by someone throwing eggs
      through private email, but I wish "Steve Hale" and his "Spiritual Science
      Today" all the luck in the world.

      (Incidentally, I have not forwarded anything, and I am not exasperated either.)

      God bless you pal,


      Tarjei
      http://uncletaz.com/
    • golden3000997@cs.com
      Hi Taz et al! This person, Steve Hale aka Sardisian has been communicating with me, Dottie (she asked me about him) and someone on the Steiner Group list, too
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 31, 2004
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        Hi Taz et al!

        This person, Steve Hale aka Sardisian has been communicating with me, Dottie
        (she asked me about him) and someone on the Steiner Group list, too (by his
        statement). He used me when starting to contact Dottie by saying that I "knew"
        him. She was trying to verify this because she felt uncomfortable. I told her
        that I had corresponded with him a few times, but didn't "know" him or who he
        was or what his agenda was.

        I have to say that I have felt VERY uncomfortable with many things that he
        has said in our "conversations." I told him so. I wanted to forward to the
        group, but also wanted to protect his privacy. He hasn't criticized anyone else on
        the group with me, but he has said things about the Jews that I didn't like
        and I told him so and why.

        Just like in the Steiner Group, where I was burned at the stake for being a
        sexual witch, there are many Anthroposophists who have Rudolf Steiner in their
        back pockets and feel they can dictate what is and what is not appropriate
        conversation. They should all get together and start a Fundamental Anthroposophy
        group.

        I understood at the start of Anthroposophy Tomorrow that the conversation
        would be open to everything, politics included. I have found that the folks in
        the Anthroposophy Group are just as cool. I'm not sure why there are two groups
        - probably some past history that I really don't care to know. But I often
        pass things on and speak to both groups and I say that I do because I feel I have
        "loved ones" on both lists. (And I can't remember who is on which list)
        (remember Dory the fish?)

        Anyway, I have also signed up for several other groups and I find lots of
        similar ideas and information pertaining to things we are discussing here also.
        I also think that the people that I have "met" here have a great sense of
        humor and I try to pass along things I think y'all would enjoy.

        To me, the exciting part of Rudolf Steiner and his work is his RELEVANCE,
        both to the world that he lived in and to the world as it is now. As I have said
        before, he could have sat literally up in a high tower and written a whole
        library of books and left it up to others to find the applications, but he
        didn't. He was very involved in the political and social and practical concerns of
        his day and gave us ideas and practical work that is still totally relevant
        today. Of course, as he himself said, it is up to us to adapt these ideas to fit
        the reality as it changes around us. This is the creativity involved. There
        are no Anthro-Robots. There is no Anthro-Borg. I have never met anywhere else in
        the world such a disparate collection of eccentric individualists as I have
        in Anthro and Waldorf communities.

        In my own makeup as an individual, I feel that I have had a wide and varied
        life experience so far. I came into contact with Rudolf Steiner and
        Anthroposophy at age 16 and, although I have read lots of other philosophies and
        spiritual paths and even participated in various spiritual things like the Catholic
        church and the Krishna temple, I always use Steiner as my "yardstick." So far, I
        have never found anything that even comes close to the breadth and depth of
        his world view and knowledge of the spiritual world and his ability to make
        both clear to others. But there are sparks and pieces of the puzzle spread out
        everywhere in the world and it is exciting and wonderful to me to find them and
        bring them home and add another bit to the picture. Like Mike finding a
        greeting card from God on a rubbish heap, so there are treasures and messages from
        the Angels and others sprinkled about everywhere if we keep our eyes, ears and
        hearts open.

        In my opinion, the wonderfulness of this kind of forum is exactly that - to
        share these bits and pieces of treasure, whether from Steiner himself or
        others. There will be tragedy and comedy involved as long as we are discussing
        anything that pertains to human beings. I admire the Amish for their (supposed)
        dedication to a spiritual point of view and lifestyle. But the way they meet
        together without humor and color (at least, as they are portrayed to the rest of
        us) is a horror to me. The idea of a humorless and colorless "heaven" is a
        horror to me. Dante's circles of Hell and Purgatory were streaks ahead of those
        boring circles of Heaven.

        As long as a person views the world and the spiritual world with an "us and
        them" attitude. Wrong and Right - Good and Evil. Then, that person is failing
        to see him or herself as a complete human being. The Statue of the
        Representative of Man does not show the Christ Being slaying either Lucifer or Ahriman. He
        is striding forth, with the Power to keep each in his rightful place.
        Obtaining knowledge of the Light and the Darkness - bringing what lives in the
        Darkness into the Light - redeeming the Darkness through the Power of Light - this
        is my definition of the Spiritual Battle. Trying to lock the Darkness away in a
        cupboard is not very effective when you turn out the light at night. We must
        each be a Strider in both the Light and the Darkness.

        So, my point is that if an entire group (or most of it) wants to set up
        definitions of what will and won't be shared or discussed, that is to be respected.
        Otherwise they would all be "Yahoo Everything Groups." If a group says "we
        only wish to study Rudolf Steiner's books and lectures and to stay on a
        particular topic." that is certainly acceptable. But if a group says "we wish to
        explore the world and ourselves in the light of Rudolf Steiner and Anthroposophy"
        then there is a given openness to information coming from the world through
        various sources.

        I personally could never sit in a face to face study group with a bunch of
        Anthroposophists who did not want what they were reading to be connected to the
        outside world (except as criticism). I have no use for people who want to
        study the Bible that way either. I want to be connected with a group of people who
        see the world around them and inside of them as a fit subject for study in
        the Light of Rudolf Steiner and the Anthroposophy that he gave to the world.

        What I am so grateful for is that I have "met" so many people here (on both
        groups) that seem to feel the same way.

        Thank you!
        Christine
      • Mike Helsher
        What a beautiful post Christine, I kinda hated to snip some of it because it all flowed so nicely. I just watched Under World last light, and I can identify
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 31, 2004
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          What a beautiful post Christine, I kinda hated to snip some of it because it all flowed so nicely. I just watched "Under World" last light, and I can identify with not locking our dark sides in the closet. In Hesses's book "Damien" There was a guy that tried to become a saint, and it drove him to attempt suicide.
           
          I love this group because it is a free speech forum. I think there is room for everyone that way. I loved my Steiner study group too, in which we studied the POF. But at times it seemed that the "small dogs" had trouble participating. Not all of us can expound eloquently about "Kant soup" and the like. And what is Anthroposophy anyway? except what we each experience it to be as individuals, in a hopefully evolving way. And no two people read the same sentence that same way. So how in the heck can anyone expect anyone else to experience it the same way-- sounds like a recipe for Dogma to me. However our experiences do have something in common, but to me that is kind of a homeless thing.
           
          So here we are on the AT list where almost anything goes -- Trauma and drama, trolls and scrolls of ancient wisdom, Love and light and arrogance and ignorance, all in the same boat.
           
          I'm very grateful too.
           
          Truth and Love
           
          Mike
          So, my point is that if an entire group (or most of it) wants to set up
          definitions of what will and won't be shared or discussed, that is to be respected.
          Otherwise they would all be "Yahoo Everything Groups." If a group says "we
          only wish to study Rudolf Steiner's books and lectures and to stay on a
          particular topic." that is certainly acceptable. But if a group says "we wish to
          explore the world and ourselves in the light of Rudolf Steiner and Anthroposophy"
          then there is a given openness to information coming from the world through
          various sources.

          I personally could never sit in a face to face study group with a bunch of
          Anthroposophists who did not want what they were reading to be connected to the
          outside world (except as criticism). I have no use for people who want to
          study the Bible that way either. I want to be connected with a group of people who
          see the world around them and inside of them as a fit subject for study in
          the Light of Rudolf Steiner and the Anthroposophy that he gave to the world.

          What I am so grateful for is that I have "met" so many people here (on both
          groups) that seem to feel the same way.

          Thank you!
          Christine
        • dottie zold
          Christine wrote: This person, Steve Hale aka Sardisian has been ... Hey Steve, Steve, I think you had some interesting thoughts to the posts here and I think
          Message 4 of 5 , Jan 31, 2004
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            Christine wrote:
            This person, Steve Hale aka Sardisian has been
            > communicating with me, Dottie
            > (she asked me about him) and someone on the Steiner
            > Group list, too (by his
            > statement). He used me when starting to contact
            > Dottie by saying that I "knew"
            > him. She was trying to verify this because she felt
            > uncomfortable. I told her
            > that I had corresponded with him a few times, but
            > didn't "know" him or who he
            > was or what his agenda was.


            Hey Steve,

            Steve, I think you had some interesting thoughts to
            the posts here and I think it would be better served
            if you brought them here on list. It was through your
            conversation, even that I was a bit uncomfortable not
            knowing who you are, that allowed me to sift through
            to where the differences were with my understanding of
            the John stream discussed here on list.

            I would like to say that I do think if one contacts a
            person off list it would be good to introduce yourself
            first and then head into the conversation. And then
            again it would be good if you were on list to start
            out with. A little trust issue seeps in when either of
            these things have not been handled. (Left or right
            makes no difference:)

            Steve, I have a question: Are you the same Steve that
            has written for the Church in Tennessee? In looking to
            see whom I was conversing with I was directed to this
            page and found a few conservative writings regarding
            womens role in the church. Are you that same Steve
            Hale?

            Interesting thing having ones writings on the web. A
            lady I met on the train told me she looked up my name
            and found a Peak Performance quote that I had never
            seen before and then that I was mentioned with
            Waldorf. Now being mentioned with Waldorf I was a wee
            bit worried what she had read due to the fact that Dan
            Dugan reprints and makes available archives all over
            the web. Luckily for me it was something positive with
            other pro Steiner students and their quotes to the
            critics. Whew.

            Anyhow Steve, join the list and introduce yourself.
            Its a great list as you can see.

            Peace,
            Dottie

            p.s. And why must Ishtar die?



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          • Tarjei Straume
            ... Maybe Steve Hale is supercybertroll Theodor Grekenquist, but who gives a damn? Tarjei
            Message 5 of 5 , Jan 31, 2004
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              At 00:25 01.02.2004, Dottie wrote:

              >Steve, I have a question: Are you the same Steve that has written for the
              >Church in Tennessee? In looking to see whom I was conversing with I was
              >directed to this page and found a few conservative writings regarding
              >womens role in the church. Are you that same Steve Hale?

              Maybe Steve Hale is supercybertroll Theodor Grekenquist, but who gives a damn?

              Tarjei
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