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Trusting PL.ANS

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  • dottie zold
    It s so funny the faith that is put into Mr. Staudenmaiers work by PLANS. I can only think it has to do with how Mr. Dugan champions Peter Staudenmaier: Mr.
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 30, 2005
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      It's so funny the faith that is put into Mr. Staudenmaiers work by
      PLANS. I can only think it has to do with how Mr. Dugan champions
      Peter Staudenmaier:

      Mr. Dugan 3/30/05:
      "Do you notice how Steiner's position changes?
      Staudenmaier wrote about the periods in Steiner's
      life:"

      The Cult of Peter strikes again. Dan, trusting Staudenamier to be an
      expert on Dr. Steiner is about as trustworthy as you thinking you
      were an expert on Anthroposophy. As the court denies you any
      credibility towards your expertise the same has been shown to
      Staudenmaier trying to hide under a 'historian' label for
      credibility.

      Just because you can fool some of the people some of the time does
      not mean you will fool all the people. And anyone looking at that
      assbackwards argument of 'was an atheist was not, was a racist was
      not, was a pre nazi was not time periods of Dr. Steiner's life goes
      to show all the freaken hoolahoops you cats have to jump through in
      order to get some credibility for your arguments. Again, normal
      rational minded people will see the smoke and mirrors you cats at
      PLANS have tried to put up. Your credibility is shot. Your 'they
      probably were talking about anthroposophy at the dinner table, hence
      their son killing someone' says it all. What a disgrace. And slowly
      this is now happening to all of the anti STeiner people on the list:
      no credibility. And why? Because you had to bring in the most
      assinine accusations that appeal to the hate/fear/mongering mentality
      that others who are in your group are forced to back up or they all
      lose. Too bad.

      Best,
      Dottie
    • dottie zold
      Now we have Walden speaking about Dr. Steiner s obsession with race. I mean even Staudenmaier copps to the fact that the Dutch report denies that
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 31, 2005
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        Now we have Walden speaking about Dr. Steiner's "obsession' with
        race. I mean even Staudenmaier copps to the fact that the Dutch
        report denies that Anthroposophy was racist ridden, and could only
        find 16 possible instances, of all his work supplied by those
        considering it to be racist, let alone obsessive with race. 16
        instances folks that were not even said to be racist rather that one
        could possibly consider that they were, not that they were.

        Walden can disagree with the philosophy of Dr. STeiner that is not a
        problem and I don't know any anthro or student of the Dr., that would
        say it was. To each his own. Anthroposophy has always been a
        difficult subject to share with ones friends as it goes far of the
        mainstream thought of today, and not because of race, rather the
        intense study of getting to know from whence our thoughts come adn
        who we are in relations to that unseen world surrounding us.

        Dr. Steiner did not just speak of Angels, he identified them, Dr.
        Steiner did not just speak on planet Earth, he discected it and got
        to know the inner workings of how things revolve from an inner
        position versus an outer one, Dr. Steiner did not just speak of the
        occult, he outed it. Time and time again it can be shown by those who
        decide to take a spiritual path past the 'feeling' of it, that Dr.
        Steiner was the greatest initiate of our time. Just because Dr.
        Steiner decided to let his little light shine does not mean others
        who choose not to, or have a different version, should tear him down
        with false identifications. The man is a recognized genius and
        definetly not just by his students or anthroposophists. Time and time
        again, when one mentions the name of Dr. Steiner the comment usually
        coming out is 'he was like a genius or something', time and frieken
        time again. And the truth is, he was.

        So, back to Mr. Walden, Steiner is clearly not 'race' obsessesed, if
        anything one has to look high and low for the remarks of race, high
        and low. The other points wherein he discusses cultural epochs have
        nothing to do with race and everything to do with the history of
        mankind. And funny you should keep on harping on race. I think its
        you and PLANS that are obsessed with race. And somehow you think it
        is bypassing the students and other normal rational thinking people,
        that PLANS is trying to tie the cultural comments and then comments
        made on race together. They do not go together Walden. Try try as you
        might, the only people you are going to get on your train ride
        into 'lets not worry about the minor details' non thinking, mind
        bending, flip twisting rants are those that are unwilling to look
        past their noses and read what it is you and PLANS share.

        And then you leave it to Dan to do the deciphering of Keith's post
        for you and chicken out of discussing them. How very PLANS of you.
        Address them Walden if you have any kind of honest debate within you.
        Note that cultureal and race are two different things. And yes
        Walden, Anthroposophists and students have been saying for years, on
        that logical mind forsaken list, that Steiner did say things on race
        that were difficult. But that in no way shape or form shows the man
        to be racist. And the reason is, because he wasn't.

        Best,
        Dottie
      • Deborah
        ... PLANS has been yelling about Steiner as racist for ten years now. Have they convinced anyone but the lunatic fringe? Can they come up with one scholar
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 31, 2005
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          --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "dottie zold"
          <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Now we have Walden speaking about Dr. Steiner's "obsession' with
          > race.

          PLANS has been yelling about Steiner as racist for ten years now. Have
          they convinced anyone but the lunatic fringe? Can they come up with
          one scholar (real scholar not dear PS) who has published anything in a
          reputable scholarly journal on Steiner's racism?

          Can they come up with a single reputable cult critiqing organization
          that will call anthroposophy a cult?

          If they have a real case it shouldn't be that hard to convince the
          normal mainstream folks that there is something wrong in anthroposophy
          land...

          Nana
        • dottie zold
          ... organization ... anthroposophy ... Do you know Nana, the Jews I have read about on line, do not agree with the nazi stamp PLANS is trying to put on Dr.
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 31, 2005
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            Nana:
            > Can they come up with a single reputable cult critiqing
            organization
            > that will call anthroposophy a cult?
            >
            > If they have a real case it shouldn't be that hard to convince the
            > normal mainstream folks that there is something wrong in
            anthroposophy
            > land...

            Do you know Nana, the Jews I have read about on line, do not agree
            with the nazi stamp PLANS is trying to put on Dr. Steiner. Do you
            know, well I am sure you do but I will say it anyway, that the
            Kaballah of the Hebrews is the very understanding down to almost the
            T of what Dr. Steiner teaches as well as what the Jews TEACH their
            children in the schools?

            PLANS can't even convince the Jews that Steiner was racist against
            them. And according to the mind bending fliptwisting logic of
            Staudenmaier, Dugan and Diana, the Jews don't know any better as they
            probably don't know their own history. I mean if we go by the logic
            that the students of Dr. STeiner don't understand him I guess the
            same would have to be said about the Jews if we follow their logic.
            Oy vey! And the only ones they can convince are themselves.

            Best,
            Dottie
          • Deborah
            ... they probably don t know their own history. There is a Jewish organization called the Anti-Defamation League. They track anti-semitism. Anthroposophy is
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 31, 2005
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              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "dottie zold"
              <dottie_z@y...> wrote:
              >> Do you know Nana, the Jews I have read about on line, do not agree
              > with the nazi stamp PLANS is trying to put on Dr. Steiner. Do you
              > know, well I am sure you do but I will say it anyway, that the
              > Kaballah of the Hebrews is the very understanding down to almost the
              > T of what Dr. Steiner teaches as well as what the Jews TEACH their
              > children in the schools?
              >
              > PLANS can't even convince the Jews that Steiner was racist against
              > them. And according to the mind bending fliptwisting logic of
              > Staudenmaier, Dugan and Diana, the Jews don't know any better as
              they probably don't know their own history.

              There is a Jewish organization called the Anti-Defamation League. They
              track anti-semitism. Anthroposophy is not on their radar. Why? Because
              Anthroposophy is not anti-semitic. Steiner, when alive, was usually
              attacked as a "Jew," by the anti-semites of his own time. That is when
              he wasn't being attacked as a Jesuit :)

              Yes, I think that the Jews have a very good sense for anti-semitism,
              and now I am speaking as someone of Jewish descent and background.

              Nana
            • Brad Martin
              ... They ... Boy, is that a good point that devastates the PLANS nonsense. Given the events of the 20th century, the ADL is a major organization committed to,
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 31, 2005
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                >Nana said:
                > There is a Jewish organization called the Anti-Defamation League.
                They
                > track anti-semitism. Anthroposophy is not on their radar.

                Boy, is that a good point that devastates the PLANS nonsense. Given
                the events of the 20th century, the ADL is a major organization
                committed to, "Never again."

                'Anthro is not on their radar screen' nails the lid on the PLANS
                coffin.
                Brad
              • earlyfire@earthlink.net
                Dear Dottie, At this point in time, it becomes evident that the key linkage binds the Plans Group Think to the malicious intent to depotentiate Anthroposophy
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 31, 2005
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                  Dear Dottie,
                  At this point in time, it becomes evident that the key linkage binds the Plans Group Think to the malicious intent to depotentiate Anthroposophy lies in their communally-addictive terror which repels rather than welcomes confronting, exploring and embracing spiritual experience. For though it may not stand to rehearsed overpublished reason, it becomes apparent to bold intuition that this is the age when the cultivation and vehement promulgation of ideology has become outgrown, and its reputation as a trustworthy path to enlightenment turned, twisted-turned utterly sterile as a means to venture one's quest forward into Higher Spheres. For when it's time to molt a husk of world-view-about-to-become-past, no funeral other than an daggery exclamation point be required, and so comes an exhale of bright green celebration to punctuate at long last the moment of renewal and deliverance as one starts to manifest courage from which a Christ Presence blossoms within the maturing individual.

                  Most participants in the WC are, judged by their apparent indifference to, disenchantment with, or downright springloaded repulsion for investigating mysterious, subtle notions as viable, germane and vital to acquiring a vibrant, cosmic consciousness, are people who demonstrate and ferociously model time and time again what it means to be imagination-dead, unable to penetrate what lies below the surface of the literal and logical.

                  Which means, essentially as a collective, indeed as a 21st-century Borg, they, bearing, over-bearing Darth Vader's armor, are scabbed over in metal skin, cut off from air and sun, and are a group which exists in order to berate, to source unnoble derision, and so, much to the chagrin of their own guardian angels, and many of us here, they would feel comfortable, even relieved were there to be brass laws passed which mandate blowing off the entire realm of subtle and creative consciousness which indwells, and for thousands of years of collective mythology and individualized art, has been core-essential Aqua Vita to embracing religious, philosophical and aesthetic dimensions bravely woven into human mortality, and which alone redeem it, upward gather it into the place He prepares for us.

                  Theirs is another chapter of Auto-da-fe, 16th century Spain, and these, 'twould likely seem - such be their pale and jaded dream, one and all withered Torquemadas intent, strangely rhymes with hell-bent, upon the recrucifixion of a Christ within. And now kneel to weep therefore the telltale evidence of such self-condemning indictment, such resentment-inspired auto-imposed excommunication with the Elusive Worlds, such black light as reveals scorpions in the dark, which is our observation that many on the WC, no less than other Fundamentalist Straight-and-Narrow-Jacketed bandwagons equate as congruent, rather than distinguish as polar, belief systems and spiritual consciousness. How very incredulous an error for any esoteric student! That a knowledge system would be thought as potent as and equatable to phenomenological self-evidencing. For the first is but professed, knee-jerk-like emanating from the instinct currents of the "Chimpan-zone", ----- and while we're at it, I believe we'll coin it, "Chimpanzonical-canonical understanding", more 'under' than 'standing' ;-), ----- whilest the second evidences at every turn, a courageous ability to live into and interpret life without resort to pre-existing "thought-and-ought" templates.


                  To illustrate the sheer depravity and tragic pathology of this collective entrenchment in an unworkable world-view, a nightmarish world view unworkable because it neither seeks, nor nurtures, much less seeks to perfect development of components of awareness which arise silent and soliloquy-like from beneath or if raising the roof is more thrilling, streamlike pour down from realms of fiery ecstasy from beyond the devout prison of the solemn, precise, labcoat-hygiene'd senses; consider then Mohammad's "He is a true believer who lives in both this world and the world to come." This statement, if one reflects upon it, cracks time, as if destroying notions of before and after, offering instead simultaniety. And breaks for all time the Christian Curse of Pie in the Sky, which be the deferment of rewards of paradise as a dangling-carrot, an extrinsic paradise as a reward for amassing Frequent-Flyer morality, or conserving Anytime-Redemption Minutes.

                  Now people who are, discourtesy of their own Inner Jabbas, frozen as Han Solo in the carbonite of 'If its not literal, it's Mysterious, HENCE, unreliable", and no Prince Skywalker in sight to disarm their entrenched greed with purity ascending, who bear the same pained scream look in their faces as he, are going to reject out of hand any notions that the Kingdom of Heaven is Brickless. Unless, of course one becomes a Slave-Mason and cultivates a heart of stone. And such Borg would, by denial of the value of aspiring to cosmic consciousness as viable human task, bereft of buoyant daring, seek instead in graveyard tread, a non-experience-able Christ, a "Coming-Attraction Christ", a "Read-All-About-It Messiah"

                  Now, we'll fast forward this statement into more turbulent times as these, and reveal it in a stereoscopic point of view, 1200 years downriver of its debut entry point into the stream of time upon the pages of the Quran. Consider now Steiner's statement that an initiate is one who is able to experience within the confines of a lifetime what others can perform only after death.

                  And from these two currents, both fractals off the same diamond, there emerges an exalting notion filled with wonder and promise, that in the unsuperimposed free-embrace by individuals, by assumption of a level of responsibility which kindles and develops dimensions of genius, we achieve the "not by bread alone" invitation, which when it evolves, renders by incremental growth the evolving functionality of imagination, inspiration and intuition.

                  Thus it is true that as the Christ descends within human consciousness, dissolving our outmoded conception of death as a genre of joyless, inevitable cosmic blackmail out to steal our pleasure and rob us of our opportunism and exploitive ecstasies such as (interchangable in intent! -American Indian, Jewish and Iraqi) Genocide, as the Word is made Flesh, not in King James, but in the Individual, courage transforms terror.

                  All evidence of Untheoretical Love at work. And Earlyfire thus suspects that the Church-State split, which at this point in history, has become an incestuous Church-State Wedding, the real Carbonite, which like an interior Monroe Doctrine, isolates us in some dark Vatican Labyrinths, in a gilded Sepulchre, or a Hummer, or 500 channels of Cable TV, and we are, one and all alike an Amerikan WC-Borg, at the black mercy of our Bias.

                  Have a good day.
                  Welcome to ancient Greece. Sir, Your hemlock is on backorder.

                  warm regards,
                  Harvey


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
                  Sent: Mar 31, 2005 8:05 AM
                  To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Trusting PL.ANS



                  Nana:
                  > Can they come up with a single reputable cult critiqing
                  organization
                  > that will call anthroposophy a cult?
                  >
                  > If they have a real case it shouldn't be that hard to convince the
                  > normal mainstream folks that there is something wrong in
                  anthroposophy
                  > land...

                  Do you know Nana, the Jews I have read about on line, do not agree
                  with the nazi stamp PLANS is trying to put on Dr. Steiner. Do you
                  know, well I am sure you do but I will say it anyway, that the
                  Kaballah of the Hebrews is the very understanding down to almost the
                  T of what Dr. Steiner teaches as well as what the Jews TEACH their
                  children in the schools?

                  PLANS can't even convince the Jews that Steiner was racist against
                  them. And according to the mind bending fliptwisting logic of
                  Staudenmaier, Dugan and Diana, the Jews don't know any better as they
                  probably don't know their own history. I mean if we go by the logic
                  that the students of Dr. STeiner don't understand him I guess the
                  same would have to be said about the Jews if we follow their logic.
                  Oy vey! And the only ones they can convince are themselves.

                  Best,
                  Dottie
                • dottie zold
                  Harvey, can you give us a prayer for my Pope? Something from the Bahai book? I am overwhelmed with love and grace as he transitions, and it actually reminds me
                  Message 8 of 8 , Apr 1, 2005
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                    Harvey, can you give us a prayer for my Pope? Something from the Bahai
                    book? I am overwhelmed with love and grace as he transitions, and it
                    actually reminds me of how I felt when chanting that most wonderful
                    prayer you gave to me when my sister was missing. She is actually two
                    years off the streets now, thanks be to God.

                    love,d
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