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Re: ok, along with all the other reads given on this list....

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  • heather
    ... when, or ... view. ... thinking. ... double take ... his eyes ... basis for ... or ... his ... to be ... or more ... reason to be ... some one ... dictated
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 1, 2005
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      Tarjei wrote:
      > At 21:56 01.03.2005, Heather wrote:
      >
      > >As in PoF, I am full of naive realism and am not even knowing
      when, or
      > >just what I put between myself and the world I am in, the world I
      view.
      > >Never knowing the 'true nature' of thinking, the true nature of
      thinking.
      >
      > Wait a minute. You're full of naive realism as in PoF? I did a
      double take
      > when I saw that and just had to look up the following:
      >
      > "The naïve man, who acknowledges as real only what he can see with
      his eyes
      > and grasp with his hands, requires for his moral life, also, a
      basis for
      > action that shall be perceptible to the senses. He requires someone
      or
      > something to impart the basis for his action to him in a way that
      his
      > senses can understand. He is ready to allow this basis for action
      to be
      > dictated to him as commandments by any man whom he considers wiser
      or more
      > powerful than himself, or whom he acknowledges for some other
      reason to be
      > a power over him. In this way there arise, as moral principles, the
      > authority of family, state, society, church and God, as previously
      > described. A man who is very narrow minded still puts his faith in
      some one
      > person; the more advanced man allows his moral conduct to be
      dictated by a
      > majority (state, society). It is always on perceptible powers that
      he
      > builds. The man who awakens at last to the conviction that
      basically these
      > powers are human beings as weak as himself, seeks guidance from a
      higher
      > power, from a Divine Being, whom he endows, however, with sense
      perceptible
      > features. He conceives this Being as communicating to him the
      conceptual
      > content of his moral life, again in a perceptible way - whether it
      be, for
      > example, that God appears in the burning bush, or that He moves
      about among
      > men in manifest human shape, and that their ears can hear Him
      telling them
      > what to do and what not to do."
      > (- Die Philosophie der Freiheit 1894, GA #4: kap. 10:
      Freiheitsphilosophie
      > und Monismus.)
      >
      > Is this you, Heather? Do you require someone or something to impart
      the
      > basis for your action to you in a way that your senses can
      understand, and
      > are you ready to allow this basis for action to be dictated to you
      as
      > commandments by any person whom you consider wiser or more powerful
      than
      > yourself, or whom you acknowledge for some other reason to be a
      power over
      > you? Do you build your moral principles on the authority of family,
      state,
      > society, church and God?
      >
      > Tarjei

      *****This is killing my head, I love it but sheesh!!!!! Right, I
      don't require someone to dictate and give me commandments (heck, I
      could even do this as a kid in church)
      My desire is to have a clearer understanding of the pathways of my
      thinking, whatever those pathways may be doing. When I sit and the
      answers don't come then I wonder what (where)is the leap in thinking,
      which I can sometimes 'feel' but cannot articulate. I become 'lost'
      in thought and therefore feel unable (not naive, I see the difference
      now Taz. God I wish I could hug you for this!) to stay within those
      moments of my thoughts, watching what is happening and taking mental
      notes. Yes, practice, practice, I'm sure.
      However, most days you guys put this grand stuff on the table, day
      after day, effortlessly and all enjoying the feast.....I just don't
      think I am digesting, just burping!
      Anyway, thank you, I can't wait to sleep on this!!
      Night, Heather
    • heather
      ... *****^ please read couldn t I drove the folks at church crazy, actually. I would ask them to prove these bible stories to be true, and I told them I
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 1, 2005
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        , "heather" wrote:
        >

        >
        > *****This is killing my head, I love it but sheesh!!!!! Right, I
        > don't require someone to dictate and give me commandments (heck, I
        > could even do this as a kid in church)
        *****^ please read "couldn't"
        I drove the folks at church crazy, actually. I would ask them to
        prove these bible stories to be true, and I told them I wouldn't
        believe in God until I had proof he really existed. I think they only
        let me stay because I was the youngest soprano (about 8)they had who
        could sing on key.
        Getting sleepy:)
        bye
      • Mike helsher
        Tarjei wrote: Do you build your moral principles on the authority of family, ... Thanks for your honesty Heather. I smiled when I read that. I remember
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 2, 2005
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          Tarjei wrote:

          <snip>Do you build your moral principles on the authority of family,
          > state,
          > > society, church and God?
          > >
          > > Tarjei
          >
          And heather answered:

          > *****This is killing my head, I love it but sheesh!!!!!

          Thanks for your honesty Heather. I smiled when I read that. I
          remember getting to a point where I asked myself:

          "Why does thinking seem so strenious?" I mean, does it actually
          require allot of physical effort? Why do I feel tired after trying
          to think about noble thoughts? You'ld think that I was going to the
          gym and bench pressing 400 lbs or something, every time I had to
          think about something worth thinking about....


          Right, I
          > don't require someone to dictate and give me commandments (heck, I
          > could even do this as a kid in church)
          > My desire is to have a clearer understanding of the pathways of my
          > thinking, whatever those pathways may be doing. When I sit and the
          > answers don't come then I wonder what (where)is the leap in
          thinking,
          > which I can sometimes 'feel' but cannot articulate. I
          become 'lost'
          > in thought and therefore feel unable (not naive, I see the
          difference
          > now Taz. God I wish I could hug you for this!) to stay within
          those
          > moments of my thoughts, watching what is happening and taking
          mental
          > notes. Yes, practice, practice, I'm sure.
          > However, most days you guys put this grand stuff on the table, day
          > after day, effortlessly and all enjoying the feast.....I just
          don't
          > think I am digesting, just burping!
          > Anyway, thank you, I can't wait to sleep on this!!
          > Night, Heather

          Well, a really loud burp can stirr up allot of attention ay! Just
          think if you let one fly (preferrably after some good mexican food)
          on a crowded elevator!!!

          Now, lets apply some "thinking with the power of Love, in spiritual
          form" to this situation. You don't know anyone on the elevator.
          First off, your body just doesn't care, and will rebel in the form
          of some sort of pain if you don't adhear to it's demands. Now, your
          soul, much depending on your biography, will have all sorts of inner
          workings in this particular situation, swinging between self hatred,
          to embarresment, to pride. But if we stop to let what thinks in us,
          have some space, I'm thinking that our response to this interesting
          situation would be something like:

          "BUUUUURRRRRRPPPPP" [wide eyed look on face during moment of
          reflection]

          "Wow! did you hear that! woah, man, that was a good one...gotta
          love that Mexican food man!"

          Ok, let's exit the elevator.

          In all seriousness, the bazillion dollar anthroposophical question
          for me, is:

          "What is thinking?"

          And recently, something that has helped calm my terbulant soul with
          answers to this elusive question, has been another tough question:

          "What is time?"

          Thanks for your input Heather.

          Mike
        • Jennifer
          This brings to mind a time when I was sitting beside a lake, very peaceful, ducks waddling around, birds flying, birdsounds, ducksounds, ... okay, you get the
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 2, 2005
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            This brings to mind a time when I was sitting beside a lake, very
            peaceful, ducks waddling around, birds flying, birdsounds,
            ducksounds, ... okay, you get the picture. A serene place, a PERFECT
            place to collect and ruminate upon one's thoughts, right? Well, I was
            sitting there reading a book (don't remember which one because this
            was years ago, but the memory still stands out) and it just wasn't
            making sense! I'd read, then reread, then finally closed the book in
            frustration. Well, what I finally figured out was that the problem
            was in the fact that I had forgotten what had been said previously
            and because of this, the present text was making no sense at all. I
            opened the book again and turned back a few pages and began reading
            again, from the beginning of the chapter. The part that eluded me
            before now made sense! So, if you (not necessarily you personally but
            any individual) are having trouble thinking about something, perhaps
            it's because you don't have enough information to make the concept
            come together in a coherent way.

            Jennifer

            Mike helsher wrote:

            > "Why does thinking seem so strenious?" I mean, does it actually
            > require allot of physical effort? Why do I feel tired after trying
            > to think about noble thoughts? You'ld think that I was going to the
            > gym and bench pressing 400 lbs or something, every time I had to
            > think about something worth thinking about....
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