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Re: to be brave

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  • Jennifer
    You re welcome, Heather! Sometimes words are just inadequate to express these things, yet I very often smile when reading the postings here. It sometimes
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 1, 2005
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      You're welcome, Heather! Sometimes words are just
      inadequate to express these things, yet I very often
      smile when reading the postings here. It sometimes
      amazes me how very strongly words can affect us.
      I know it might sound trite, but it is very true
      that kind words bring about better results than harsh
      ones. I've just witnessed a very ugly "flame war" on
      another list and wonder, how are the combatants faring
      now that it's all over? I'd be feeling wounded, no doubt.
      I just posted something on my own list, Three Chairs,
      a blog entry by a good friend, and the first thing out
      of the chute was a scathing critique of it. Boom. To this
      person, the blog entry had no redeeming value; all he
      had to say was negative, and deeply insulting. I was
      not quite sure how to respond, so I asked the one who
      said those things: Would you say this to the guy's face?
      Here in "cyberworld," so many things are obscured.

      Well, carry on! And fly your freak flag if ya want. ;)

      Take care,
      Jennifer

      heather wrote:

      > Hi again!
      > thanks Jennifer and Flemming for your warm words.
      > I really appreciate the input.
      > This group is totally what gets me through the day:)
      > Good evening (or morning:)
      > Heather
    • heather
      ... *****I find the idea of type-written rage similar to road rage, (plenty of that out this way unfortunately)in that everyday folks will behave in the
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 1, 2005
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        "Jennifer" wrote:
        >
        > You're welcome, Heather! Sometimes words are just
        > inadequate to express these things, yet I very often
        > smile when reading the postings here. It sometimes
        > amazes me how very strongly words can affect us.
        > I know it might sound trite, but it is very true
        > that kind words bring about better results than harsh
        > ones. I've just witnessed a very ugly "flame war" on
        > another list and wonder, how are the combatants faring
        > now that it's all over? I'd be feeling wounded, no doubt.
        > I just posted something on my own list, Three Chairs,
        > a blog entry by a good friend, and the first thing out
        > of the chute was a scathing critique of it. Boom. To this
        > person, the blog entry had no redeeming value; all he
        > had to say was negative, and deeply insulting. I was
        > not quite sure how to respond, so I asked the one who
        > said those things: Would you say this to the guy's face?
        > Here in "cyberworld," so many things are obscured.
        >
        > Well, carry on! And fly your freak flag if ya want. ;)
        >
        > Take care,
        > Jennifer


        *****I find the idea of type-written rage similar to road rage,
        (plenty of that out this way unfortunately)in that everyday folks
        will behave in the wildest and oftentimes harshest ways while in
        these isolated locations (ones car.) But once the isolation is
        removed (ie. seeing that same person in a coffee shop just moments
        later) there's an embarrassment to what took place on the road. I've
        also had folks say that they don't have any idea what I'm talking
        about.
        As far as cyberworld, the only things I do at the computer is AT,
        anthroposophy, and check my mail. I haven't really 'surfed' yet:)
        Is your list, Three Chairs, similar to what's talked about here? I'll
        have to check it out.
        One last thought, whether it's cars or blogs, I think people lash out
        because they have no connection and will take any kind, whether
        that's just the adrenalin rush they get from their actions or just
        that brief encounter with another.
        Well, anyhoo, good night,
        Heather
      • Jennifer
        Wonderful analogy, Heather! (I am laughing at myself because I m in the midst of grading some papers and this sounds way too much like a teacher comment!)
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 1, 2005
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          Wonderful analogy, Heather! (I am laughing at myself because I'm in
          the midst of grading some papers and this sounds way too much like
          a "teacher" comment!) Yet what you say is so true. And I'm also
          sometimes guilty of shouting obscenities at people who can't hear
          them. :)

          Three Chairs. Well, I've been thinking about WHY I even still have
          this group and wondering whether I shouldn't just abandon it. I get
          very frustrated because conversations often seem to take a wrong
          turn, or just don't go anywhere. I don't know if it's the mix of
          people there (a diverse group, for sure) or if it's my lack of
          initiative, or if it's just an idea that's run its course.
          Nonetheless, you -- and anyone else listening in here -- are more
          than welcome to check it out. The ever-lively Griselda showed some
          interest, too, at one time. (Hint-hint.)

          Here is a page describing the group: http://home.comcast.net/~jenlsk

          You make a good point about why people lash out. Yet I fail to
          understand why someone would want to cause another person pain for
          no reason other than a need for an adrenaline rush.

          Take care,
          Jennifer

          heather wrote:

          > *****I find the idea of type-written rage similar to road rage,
          > (plenty of that out this way unfortunately)in that everyday folks
          > will behave in the wildest and oftentimes harshest ways while in
          > these isolated locations (ones car.) But once the isolation is
          > removed (ie. seeing that same person in a coffee shop just moments
          > later) there's an embarrassment to what took place on the road.
          I've
          > also had folks say that they don't have any idea what I'm talking
          > about.
          > As far as cyberworld, the only things I do at the computer is AT,
          > anthroposophy, and check my mail. I haven't really 'surfed' yet:)
          > Is your list, Three Chairs, similar to what's talked about here?
          I'll
          > have to check it out.
          > One last thought, whether it's cars or blogs, I think people lash
          out
          > because they have no connection and will take any kind, whether
          > that's just the adrenalin rush they get from their actions or just
          > that brief encounter with another.
          > Well, anyhoo, good night,
          > Heather
        • holderlin66
          Jennifer wrote: I ve just witnessed a very ugly flame war on another list and wonder, how are the combatants faring now that it s all over? I d be feeling
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 1, 2005
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            Jennifer wrote:

            "I've just witnessed a very ugly "flame war" on
            another list and wonder, how are the combatants faring
            now that it's all over? I'd be feeling wounded, no doubt."

            Bradford comments;

            Flame wars...shoot, flame wars.. You wanna see some flaming, you
            gotta check out the pop chute of the wily Bush Brain himself. We got
            ourselves such a scandal and all the kids at the monkey palace are
            trying to keep the lid on this monster. I certainly would rather
            everyone get along, but right now, in the West, we have a quasi
            human being sending people to kill and inventing terrorists and
            bombing and car bombing and killing so that Amerika can keep the lie
            alive. Flame Wars. No, this is what we would like to say to these
            people. The point is, that Flaming queens say it so much better. I
            just could hope that this flame torches GWB's ass and fat Karl is
            given his exit from beltway life.

            Flame Wars...just check out this blazing saddles.

            http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a1417.htm

            " If you thought I was going to slink away - then you don't know
            much about me. Someone still has to battle the Left and now that
            I've emerged from the crucible, I'm stronger than before. (My God,
            what an egomaniac! This sleazy male whore thinks that he is a Saint
            George battling the dragon of the liberals! Jeff sweetie, there is
            only one Saint George in the White House and he occupies the Oval
            Office. Along with Fat Karl Rove, the co-ruler and your very good
            friend and supporter. It's better that he supports you than you try
            to support him. You'd get a hernia trying that one. Or you could try
            a fork lift)"
          • Jennifer
            Dear Bradford, I think the Gris Almighty should appoint YOU Flaming Gonzo Guru. Cheers, Jennifer ... got ... lie ... Saint ... try ... try
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 2, 2005
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              Dear Bradford,

              I think the Gris Almighty should appoint YOU Flaming Gonzo Guru.

              Cheers,
              Jennifer

              holderlin66 wrote:

              > Bradford comments;
              >
              > Flame wars...shoot, flame wars.. You wanna see some flaming, you
              > gotta check out the pop chute of the wily Bush Brain himself. We
              got
              > ourselves such a scandal and all the kids at the monkey palace are
              > trying to keep the lid on this monster. I certainly would rather
              > everyone get along, but right now, in the West, we have a quasi
              > human being sending people to kill and inventing terrorists and
              > bombing and car bombing and killing so that Amerika can keep the
              lie
              > alive. Flame Wars. No, this is what we would like to say to these
              > people. The point is, that Flaming queens say it so much better. I
              > just could hope that this flame torches GWB's ass and fat Karl is
              > given his exit from beltway life.
              >
              > Flame Wars...just check out this blazing saddles.
              >
              > http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a1417.htm
              >
              > " If you thought I was going to slink away - then you don't know
              > much about me. Someone still has to battle the Left and now that
              > I've emerged from the crucible, I'm stronger than before. (My God,
              > what an egomaniac! This sleazy male whore thinks that he is a
              Saint
              > George battling the dragon of the liberals! Jeff sweetie, there is
              > only one Saint George in the White House and he occupies the Oval
              > Office. Along with Fat Karl Rove, the co-ruler and your very good
              > friend and supporter. It's better that he supports you than you
              try
              > to support him. You'd get a hernia trying that one. Or you could
              try
              > a fork lift)"
            • yogidahl2000
              Bradford Pushed: The point is, that Flaming queens say it so much better. Yes,yes – Still,they re no match for Dame Dottie ! Vibes, Flemming
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 3, 2005
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                Bradford Pushed:

                "The point is, that Flaming queens say it so much better."

                Yes,yes – Still,they're no match for Dame Dottie !
                Vibes,
                Flemming
              • heather
                ... And I m also ... ******oh yes, here too. I try to get creative with my comments to other drivers so that my kids don t pick up on (copy) my attitude:)
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 3, 2005
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                  "Jennifer" wrote:
                  >
                  And I'm also
                  > sometimes guilty of shouting obscenities at people who can't hear
                  > them. :)
                  ******oh yes, here too. I try to get creative with my 'comments' to
                  other drivers so that my kids don't pick up on (copy) my attitude:)
                  and, no, I don't mean sign language (much, anyway) I just try to stay
                  goofy rather than mean, you know?
                  >
                  > Three Chairs. Well, I've been thinking about WHY I even still have
                  > this group and wondering whether I shouldn't just abandon it. I get
                  > very frustrated because conversations often seem to take a wrong
                  > turn, or just don't go anywhere. I don't know if it's the mix of
                  > people there (a diverse group, for sure) or if it's my lack of
                  > initiative, or if it's just an idea that's run its course.
                  > Nonetheless, you -- and anyone else listening in here -- are more
                  > than welcome to check it out. The ever-lively Griselda showed some
                  > interest, too, at one time. (Hint-hint.)
                  >
                  > Here is a page describing the group: http://home.comcast.net/~jenlsk

                  ***I'll go check your group soon, really, I will:) Thanks for the
                  link.
                  ~Heather
                • holderlin66
                  For anthros with research and grounded thinking ability, here is a word study of Tuttle and Buttle and transferal and rendition. Or, why you we are
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 20, 2005
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                    For anthros with research and grounded thinking ability, here is a
                    word study of Tuttle and Buttle and "transferal" and "rendition."
                    Or, "why you we are sluggish, uncreative pouters". Lessons in dying
                    for those who are afraid to live.

                    heather wrote:

                    YOu brave anthros (or what title suits) who, like Pacino (I think?)
                    in "Brazil" enter my cold, gray, sterile apartment without detection
                    form big brother (I pray!). You take me to vast horizons, warm alive
                    seneries, show growing possibilities. Teach one not to forget ones
                    true being and how to look through, beyond the gray unliving, fear-
                    based hamster wheels that cover the landscape..."

                    earlyfire wrote:

                    "One cannot merely define Anthroposophy, one must Author it.
                    Anthroposophy is not a noun, it's a verb, a doing hallowed by
                    thinking. Ergo get to be be King Arthur, one does not acquire a
                    Ph.D. writing and defending a lofty dissertation/instruction manual
                    on how to extract Excalibur from a stone. Each of us is an
                    embryonic, sub-angelic would-be mirror of Anthroposophia's Presence,
                    Her Influence. So it is that one rather acquires bravery in the face
                    of risk, and presents his thoughts as quickening to the complacence
                    of the status quo, and thus enters the Progressive Stream, the
                    Michaelic Theater. That' it seems to me the first evidence that one
                    is coming to spiritual responsibility, entering the river
                    called "Not by bread alone" Anyone who inspires the dissolving of
                    laziness, of prejudice, of the attitude of "Been there, Done That",
                    practices and perfects Anthroposophy."

                    Bradford examines the Sorathian connection;

                    The Sorathian connection is subtle. It has been presented here many
                    times, but it literally has to do with how the reawakenings of the
                    torture of the Templars by Philip the Fair out and beyond the years
                    of 1332 that has resurfaced in 1998 and out and beyond the years
                    into 2005. Oh and this subject and its thinking direction is very
                    specific. And as an added bonus this particular piece of research
                    also has to do with understanding the film, "Brazil" Orwell and
                    fascism. Who wooodah thunk it?

                    Gonzo Anthroposophy, with depth, is able to look into research
                    developments outlined from the School of Spiritual Science and
                    connect the dots. It should be our job in the Michael School to
                    connect the specific dots because thinking, our thinking, most
                    Anthro thinking, remains in a sluggish uncreative sulk since the
                    death of Dr. Steiner and frankly we can't afford such sluggishness.
                    But Dr. Steiner apparently must have left his stunning research to
                    pouting babies who prefer to suck their thumbs. It is not rocket
                    science here to connect memory functions with historical events. It
                    is brave of us to understand the depth of Steiner's research and be
                    able to objectify it. That is our damned job.

                    It is knowing what we are looking for and allowing the observations
                    to speak to us in a Goethean interconnectedness. I posed with
                    absolute justification that comets and their clocked orbits, whether
                    they be 11,000 year clock work of hyakataki, or the clock work Hale
                    Bopp or Halley's comet, all have a built in mathematical cosmic
                    memory as for humanity s they pass on a close fly bys with the
                    memory and cosmic development of our Earth. Steiner truly tackles
                    some of the history of comets in the cosmos, but how do these things
                    connect to Cosmic Intelligence and how do we track deep history, are
                    all jumbled in the dust bin of Anthro lore. Now, right away we ask
                    ourselves, memory, comets and how does this relate to Philip the
                    Fair and the movie Brazil? Well that is the problem with sluggish
                    uncreative sulking Anthros...they can't think understand and leap to
                    stunning connections, but must be prodded and pulled to view what is
                    seen from the cliff.

                    Phillip the Fair is part of an inner field memory, just as comets
                    evoke an outer field memory of Earth evolution, by recalling what
                    was transpiring on the Earth when the clock of the cosmos last
                    struck with a comet fly by, so as well, with Philip the Fair and the
                    Sorathian impulse born on a six hundred and sixty six year rhythm we
                    have a built in clock rhythm to follow.

                    It is an internal rhythm pattern that must be monitored if we are to
                    remain attentive in the Michael School. The next problem is exactly
                    what is the signature and what do we monitor? Right here is where
                    Anthros get 'tangled in the blue' and like certain newbies,
                    constantly ask, does this mean we should take Steiner literally.
                    This is one of the most annoying constnat whines from an unconscious
                    anthro student that I constantly hear. Mind you, it is not Heather
                    who has keeps saying this, but it is constantly said by at least one
                    Anthro and if there is one Anthro there are a dozen with
                    such 'thought denied' stamped on their soul credit card.

                    So, for the benefit of those who labor under the sluggish,
                    uncreative sulking Anthro star, who think everything is a symbol for
                    reality...lets give you a dose of reality so that you can understand
                    the difference between your inner undeveloped embryonic thinking and
                    the thinking stature of an Initiate like Steiner. Mind you, just
                    because we might put the issues in front of our eyes, doesn't mean
                    that the sluggish anthro will grasp the meaning of what is compared
                    here.

                    Published on Saturday, March 19, 2005 by CommonDreams.org
                    The Object of Torture is Torture
                    by Christopher Brauchli

                    http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0319-22.htm

                    The object of torture is torture
                    George Orwell, 1984

                    "Instead of beginning today's column with a discussion of world
                    events, we begin with a vocabulary lesson. The lesson is inspired by
                    the confluence of two words that seem to have nothing in common.
                    They are "transferal" and "rendition." The first word means, among
                    other things, to move from one situation or place to another.
                    Transferals are innocuous events that say nothing about the society
                    in which they take place.

                    A rendition is, among other things, a version of a familiar tune
                    performed in a manner that is slightly different from the version to
                    which the listener is accustomed. Renditions are innocuous events
                    that say nothing about the society in which they take place although
                    if the rendition is a bad one, it may say something about the
                    performer.

                    From the foregoing the reader may conclude that the two words have
                    nothing in common. Such a conclusion would demonstrate that I have
                    tricked the reader. That is because in fact, these words have two
                    things in common. Each is a euphemism and each conceals dark
                    secrets. The dark secrets are death and torture. "Transferal"
                    and "rendition" are forever joined together to describe actions one
                    would not have thought could possibly spring from societies that
                    consider themselves civilized.

                    In Argentina "transferal" referred to the process of taking a person
                    from the Naval Mechanics' School in Buenos Aires known locally as
                    ESMA. In an earlier incarnation it was an officers' casino. In its
                    later incarnation it was one of the detention centers to which
                    political dissidents, leaders of the opposition and those considered
                    a threat to the military dictatorship were taken from March 1976
                    until the end of 1983. Its name notwithstanding, it would only have
                    been considered a "school" by those who consider the use of torture
                    as a teaching device to educate people as to what they should say to
                    the torturer.

                    According to a description by Larry Rohter of the New York Times,
                    the building had a long hall the name of which had something in
                    common with "transferal" and "rendition." Its name was a euphemism.
                    It was called "Happiness Avenue." There were no stores on Happiness
                    Avenue as there are on some of the elegant avenues in Buenos Aires.
                    There were just rooms in which acts of torture took
                    place. "Happiness Avenue" was not a one-way street. Once the
                    authorities completed the torture, which could go on for extended
                    periods, the victim was drugged and participated in what the
                    Argentine navy called "transferal." The victim was taken to the
                    airport, placed in an airplane, flown over and then thrown into the
                    ocean. Drowning was much pleasanter than the activities on Happiness
                    Avenue. It had an end.

                    The United States uses "rendition" which loosely translated
                    means "we provide the body, you perform the torture." "We" is the
                    United States government in the guise of the CIA and "you" is the
                    country to which those the soon-to-be-tortured are sent. Those who
                    participate in rendition are sent to countries where torture is an
                    accepted way of extracting information. That is not, however, why
                    they are sent there. According to a report in the New York Times
                    prisoners are moved to other countries in order to help the United
                    States with budgetary problems. Administration officials have said
                    that sending prisoners to Egypt, for example, is an alternative to
                    the "costly, manpower-intensive process of housing them in the
                    United States or in American-run facilities in other countries." The
                    fact that those countries engage in torture is nothing more than a
                    coincidence.

                    Even though rendition is primarily a money saving device, a number
                    of individuals were tortured following their rendition. Maher Ara is
                    a Canadian citizen who was arrested at Kennedy airport, transferred
                    to and tortured in Syria before being released without being charged
                    with a crime. Khaled el-Masri was arrested on the Serbia-Macedonia
                    border, held and tortured for five months and then released without
                    being charged. His captors told him it was a case of mistaken
                    identity. They meant to torture someone else with his name. He was
                    an incidental beneficiary of the torture rather than its intended
                    target.

                    Because of the apparent confusion that exists as to what it is the
                    United States wants these countries to do with the prisoners they
                    are sent I have a modest proposal. There are a number of jails in
                    the U.S. that are not filled to capacity. Instead of sending
                    prisoners abroad send them to jails in this country where torture is
                    less likely to be inflicted. The prisoners and all who favor human
                    rights will be grateful. Since most renditions take place on
                    chartered aircraft moving prisoners around the country instead of
                    around the world will also save money. It's a win-win solution."

                    http://www.ram.org/ramblings/movies/brazil.html

                    "Brazil is borne out of doom-based fiction such as George Orwell's
                    1984; Aldous Huxley's Brave New World; and Franz Kafka's The Trial,
                    chronicling a story where a reluctant bureaucrat is dragged into a
                    web of conspiracy in a society of automatons.

                    Sam Lowry (Jonathan Price) is a civil servant working for the
                    Ministry of Information. The Ministry is divided into two parts,
                    both operating at peak efficiency. The first part has to do with the
                    recording (and disbursement) of information (and that is the
                    currency in the world depicted in Brazil); the other has to do with
                    its acquisition. The former is where Sam works, and the latter is
                    where his close friend (Michael Pain) has chosen to offer his
                    services as an information extractor.

                    Sam is unambitious, to the chagrin of his plastic surgery-obsessed
                    mother (Katherine Helmond). That is until he runs into a beautiful
                    girl, Jill Layton (Kim Greist), while trying to correct a mistake
                    about her neighbour's false arrest and execution (caused by a fly in
                    a typewriter changing the last name from Tuttle to Buttle). An
                    unchallenged Sam decides to help Jill, the girl he has been
                    fantasising about in his dreams. In doing so, he ends up taking on
                    the entire Ministry and morphs from a public servant to an enemy of
                    the state. Ironically, as Sam goes about his business to clear
                    Buttle's name, he aids and is aided by Archibald "Harry" Tuttle
                    (Robert De Niro), a subversive who is bent on destroying the
                    bureaucratic state.
                  • holderlin66
                    earlyfire wrote: One cannot merely define Anthroposophy, one must Author it. Anthroposophy is not a noun, it s a verb, a doing hallowed by thinking. Ergo get
                    Message 9 of 13 , Apr 9, 2005
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                      earlyfire wrote:

                      "One cannot merely define Anthroposophy, one must Author it.
                      Anthroposophy is not a noun, it's a verb, a doing hallowed by
                      thinking. Ergo get to be be King Arthur, one does not acquire a
                      Ph.D. writing and defending a lofty dissertation/instruction manual
                      on how to extract Excalibur from a stone. Each of us is an
                      embryonic, sub-angelic would-be mirror of Anthroposophia's Presence,
                      Her Influence. So it is that one rather acquires bravery in the face
                      of risk, and presents his thoughts as quickening to the complacence
                      of the status quo, and thus enters the Progressive Stream, the
                      Michaelic Theater. That' it seems to me the first evidence that one
                      is coming to spiritual responsibility, entering the river
                      called "Not by bread alone" Anyone who inspires the dissolving of
                      laziness, of prejudice, of the attitude of "Been there, Done That",
                      practices and perfects Anthroposophy."

                      http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19171106p01.html

                      "Human beings must embark upon the unpleasant task of abandoning the
                      mode of thinking which the universities produce in the so-called
                      educated classes today; a time must come when a number of human
                      beings declare themselves ready to accept this uncomfortable world-
                      conception which takes its direction, its concepts, its ideas, from
                      the spiritual world. For men must not, dare not, linger in the
                      condition of sleep that is so congenial to those abstract concepts
                      for which the age of materialism strives and then calls "noble."
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