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Re: Spiritual Hierarchies - Lecture 9

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  • holderlin66
    Common Sense Is Anathema To Bible-believing Creationists By Lee Salisbury Feb 26, 2005, 19:51 http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_15949.shtml Is
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 27, 2005
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      Common Sense Is Anathema To Bible-believing Creationists
      By Lee Salisbury
      Feb 26, 2005, 19:51

      http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_15949.shtml

      "Is the public well served when clergy and legislators promote ideas
      defying logic and science and for which there is no better evidence
      for than a literal Snow White or a literal Peter Pan?

      The religious-right and its advocates, mainly fundamentalist clergy
      and their legislator-favorites believe the Genesis creation story is
      factually accurate, literal truth. Does science affirm this
      creationist view? Is a literal creationist account something a
      rational person accepts? Let's look at the Book of Genesis and
      consider a few of the many questions an honest inquirer should ask.

      On the first day, God created light calling it day and darkness
      calling it night with a morning and an evening. There is yet no sun.
      Science tells us that the sun is the primary source of light in our
      universe. Mr. Creationist, please explain where does light come from
      when there is no sun? If you say the light came from God, than you
      acknowledge darkness came from God. Why did God create darkness when
      the universe was already dark? Without a sun for earth to rotate
      around, how could there be a morning and evening, a day and night?

      On the second day, God created a firmament or expanse to divide the
      waters below the firmament from the waters above the firmament. God
      called the firmament Heaven. Mr. Creationist, of what was the
      firmament comprised that enabled it to overrule the force of gravity
      and keep the waters above from crashing down on the earth? Why
      hasn't the Hubbell Space Telescope that sees 15 billion light-years
      into space ever detected a firmament, a heaven, or this heavenly
      ocean of water? Creationists say the water came down in Noah's
      flood. If Noah's flood is historically accurate, why do
      archaeological and geological finds show no Flood indicators in
      ancient settlements like the 9,000 year old Catalhoyuk in Turkey, a
      short distance from Mt. Ararat? Humans were just as wicked after the
      Flood as before the Flood. What did the Flood accomplish? Does the
      Flood reveal an all-wise, omniscient God?

      On the third day, God gathered the waters and the land under the
      firmament and called them Sea and Earth. Then God created grass,
      herbs, fruit trees, and their respective seeds. At this point in
      creation there was no sun. Biology teaches that plants need
      photosynthesis for the sun's light energy to convert carbon dioxide
      and water into nutrients. If the creation days are epochs biology
      tells us the plants would die without the sun and photosynthesis.
      Mr. Creationist, if God is an intelligent designer, why didn't God
      create the sun before He created the plants?

      On the fourth day, God created the sun, moon, and stars in the
      heavens for signs, seasons, days, and years. Some suggest this was
      the Big Bang? Astronomers estimate the Big Bang was 15 billion years
      ago. Adding Luke's 4,000-year genealogical record from Adam to Jesus
      and the 2,000 years from Jesus to the present suggest the universe
      is about 6,000 years old. Mr. Creationist, how do you reconcile the
      huge difference of the Bible's 6,000 year age of the universe and
      the astronomer's 15 billion years? Astronomy contradicts the Bible's
      reliability.

      Astronomers tell us there are billions of other galaxies in the
      universe each with billions and billions of stars. The Bible tells
      us God named every star. Is it rational or logical to accept that
      the God who supposedly: 1) created days and nights without a sun; 2)
      created plants without the sun's needed photosynthesis; 3) punished
      humanity with a Flood knowing humanity would continue in the same
      wickednessÂ…created and named all those stars in a 24 hour day just
      6,000 years ago?

      Mr. Creationist, today we know the earth is spherical. You teach
      that when Jesus comes a second time, Christians are raptured and go
      up to meet Jesus in the air. How do Christians from the United
      States going up to meet Jesus and Christians from Australia going up
      to meet Jesus ever all meet this Jesus when they are going in
      opposite directions from opposite sides of the earth?

      Without considering the 5th and 6th days of creation in which Adam
      and Eve eat from a tree of knowledge and converse with talking
      snakes, these are a few preliminary questions that any person with a
      wee bit of common sense should ask believers in a literally factual
      Bible. Amazingly, creationists have no rational, evidence-based
      answers for these questions. Even more amazing, the media sits bye
      and never challenges their specious answers concocted solely to
      justify their theological wet dreams.

      Is the public well served when clergy and legislators promote ideas
      defying logic and science and for which there is no better evidence
      for than a literal Snow White or a literal Peter Pan? Should such
      people be respected especially when they are in positions that frame
      public policy and law? You decide!"

      Tarjei Straume wrote:

      Rudolf Steiner:

      > ><http://makeashorterlink.com/?
      G2F51547A>http://makeashorterlink.com/?G2F51547A

      Now that's really something for NASA and the observatories I'd say.

      Now we have seen that guiding Beings are everywhere. We have seen
      with the earth, how the higher spiritual Beings - Angels,
      Archangels, Archai - descended, and at a time when humanity could
      not as yet help itself, they guided it until it reached a certain
      height. These are the spiritual beings of the Hierarchies who had
      reached their maturity in earlier times; but when this height is
      reached, when those Beings who had descended from the heights reach
      their goal, then other Beings have to become the leaders and guides
      of the said nations. When nations have to rise in a certain way
      still higher than their highest point, leading personalities have to
      give themselves up of their own free will to become the bearers of
      higher spiritual Beings; only then does it become possible to lead
      the nation a few stages beyond that which was originally planned for
      it. But in such cases one thing must happen; those who descend into
      the beings who have to lead the nation to a still higher point of
      civilisation, must take upon themselves all the Karma which the
      nation has been accumulating. This is the important law as regards
      taking upon oneself the Karma of nations and of races. From a
      definite point of time the guiding personalities have themselves to
      bear all the Karma of those nations and races.

      Now this is really something. Imagine a higher spiritual Being, a
      Spirit of Personality, for instance, and Archai, ensouling George W.
      Bush and taking upon himself all of America's karma. Wow.

      And now for the real fire, folks. Pay very close attention to this:

      Thus we build up our idea of evolution from the point when it
      begins, up to the time when one can give out, can create. The idea
      of the creator rises before our spiritual sight, and we say to
      ourselves, each separate being develops from the creature to the
      creator. The Archangels developed to the human stage on ancient Sun,
      the Spirits of Personality on ancient Saturn, the Angels on the
      ancient Moon, we men, upon the earth; and so it will continue
      always, in all times, Beings will be developing into men.

      This insight has been paid for with blood, my friends. This is
      heresy! People have been murdered by the church for suggesting that
      Christ is a created, evolving being, that the gods are created,
      evolving beings just like you and me - that they were *all*
      once "human like the rest of us." So this comes to us at a great
      price.

      And now for the big, big, big questions:

      Does all that continue endlessly? Is it really only a succession of
      circles, in which is repeated on the Sun that which previously took
      place on Saturn, only that a number of beings are added to the
      former ones with each circle? Is it really all, that out of
      originally helpless creatures beings should ever be developing into
      those who can sacrifice themselves? This is not at all the case! But
      the great question arises: Is the humanity which was experienced on
      Saturn by the Spirits of Personality, the humanity experienced on
      the Sun by the Archangels, and that experienced by the Angels on
      Mars, are these all the same kind of humanity as that which we are
      now experiencing upon earth? When we consider the nature of the
      Angels, for instance, do we see in them the image of what we shall
      be in our next Jupiter epoch? Do we see in the spirits of fire on1y
      the image of those beings we shall ourselves be in Venus? Can it
      really be said with reason that, in reaching to higher stages in the
      evolution of the world, and rising even into the Hierarchies, we
      shall develop only into Beings which exist already? Has our path of
      evolution been trod already by others ? These are the great
      questions which each of you may ask who has let these lectures act
      impartially upon his soul. Have we only to do with a humanity which
      is externally repeated in the same way, so that we are now as the
      Spirits of Personality were on the Saturn, the Fire Spirits or
      Archangels on the Sun, the Angels on the Moon? For us this might be
      important, but for the higher Gods it would only be a multiplication
      of their own creations, and they would not have achieved any special
      progress. But there is another question: Will men, just because they
      have become men upon the earth, be enabled some day, perhaps, to
      develop into beings capable of something of which the Angels are
      incapable, something of which also the Archangels and the Spirits of
      Personality are incapable? Has the whole of Creation learnt
      something through having produced men after the Archangels, and
      after the Angels? Has Creation made progress through that? Is it
      possible that man, because he was fitted to descend deeper, will,
      therefore, have gained the possibility, the right, to rise still
      higher? We ask ourselves this as a sort of consequential question.
      The remainder of our considerations must be dedicated to this
      question: What is the whole significance and importance of man in
      the Cosmos and his relation to the Hierarchies? What will Man become
      in the succeeding stages of the Hierarchies?

      These are very grand questions, and of the greatest importance for
      our understanding of freedom and free will, and for spiritualized
      anarchism, anarchosophy. The final bomb is coming up in Lecture 10,
      so stay tuned!"
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