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Re: Ph.of Freedom - shamans journey

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  • elf
    Having thinked on this twice, wiv no judgements on I can telled that its the bearded vulture. He s mine. He s the one I fly on the back of. He s my bird
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 1, 2005
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      Having thinked on this twice, wiv no judgements on I can telled that
      its the bearded vulture. He's mine. He's the one I fly on the back
      of. He's my bird friend.

      I can get a picture of him if you like.
      Ooooh he's very beautiful. He's got feathery legs like an eagle and
      a most beautiful face. Also feathers on. Not a long skinny bald
      neck to dig in to the pie.
      And I can tell you so many stories about him.

      Because I love him so much.

      Got to go.
      Think once
      Think twice
      then what
      >
      > For a shaman, in understand, it's this process of entering a
      whole
      > and going for a journey finding your power animal etc. So, what
      I'm
      > interested in: where is this kind of whole within the
      Ph.o.Freedom.
      > And as I mentioned it yesterday, I have the suspicion (is that
      > english?) it's there, where you have to do something different
      with
      > your thoughts, than what usually happens. That seems to be me an
      > important moment, where one gains strength of overcome ahrimanic
      > thought patterns.
      > > So I was wondering, if there is anyone here - having done this
      > journey already and could share some practical advice....
      >
      > I'd like to telled hallo. You can call me Cimi if you like,
      > pronounced Kee-mee. White Lunar World Bridger.
      >
      > I can telled you more things when time is giving me more and more.
      > Can't got time to fly everysingle where right now.
      > No.
      >
      > So I have to wait.
      > Mine could be an eagle. It could be, its definately a bird. But
      > also it might be the lammervanger. It doesn't eat lambs, it
      doesn't
      > it loves marrow its best. And whats there to eat after marrows.
      > Mmmm another thing the bushman telled is you can't suck the marrow
      > from the bones in one sitting. It means you can't telled the
      > stories of your life all in one go. Mmmm
      > Now the eagle I telled this. Once there was another elf, before
      > me. He died. He had to beed the wasp to take the seed to a new
      > world so another Bushman woman could be borned fron the lily.
      > MMmmm
      >
      > Love elf
      >
      > S
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Right now I'm in Florida trying to earn up some cold cash, so
      > that I
      > > can go home to my family in Flagstaff AZ. and not have to
      worry
      > about
      > > money for a while.
      > > It must be very cold out there - isn't it close to the Hopi
      etc
      > country?
      > > Good day, to you
      > > michael
    • elf
      Having thinked on this twice, wiv no judgements on I can telled that its the bearded vulture. He s mine. He s the one I fly on the back of. He s my bird
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 1, 2005
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        Having thinked on this twice, wiv no judgements on I can telled that
        its the bearded vulture. He's mine. He's the one I fly on the back
        of. He's my bird friend.

        I can get a picture of him if you like.
        Ooooh he's very beautiful. He's got feathery legs like an eagle and
        a most beautiful face. Also feathers on. Not a long skinny bald
        neck to dig in to the pie.
        And I can tell you so many stories about him.

        Because I love him so much.

        Got to go.
        Think once
        Think twice
        then what
        >
        > For a shaman, in understand, it's this process of entering a
        whole
        > and going for a journey finding your power animal etc. So, what
        I'm
        > interested in: where is this kind of whole within the
        Ph.o.Freedom.
        > And as I mentioned it yesterday, I have the suspicion (is that
        > english?) it's there, where you have to do something different
        with
        > your thoughts, than what usually happens. That seems to be me an
        > important moment, where one gains strength of overcome ahrimanic
        > thought patterns.
        > > So I was wondering, if there is anyone here - having done this
        > journey already and could share some practical advice....
        >
        > I'd like to telled hallo. You can call me Cimi if you like,
        > pronounced Kee-mee. White Lunar World Bridger.
        >
        > I can telled you more things when time is giving me more and more.
        > Can't got time to fly everysingle where right now.
        > No.
        >
        > So I have to wait.
        > Mine could be an eagle. It could be, its definately a bird. But
        > also it might be the lammervanger. It doesn't eat lambs, it
        doesn't
        > it loves marrow its best. And whats there to eat after marrows.
        > Mmmm another thing the bushman telled is you can't suck the marrow
        > from the bones in one sitting. It means you can't telled the
        > stories of your life all in one go. Mmmm
        > Now the eagle I telled this. Once there was another elf, before
        > me. He died. He had to beed the wasp to take the seed to a new
        > world so another Bushman woman could be borned fron the lily.
        > MMmmm
        >
        > Love elf
        >
        > S
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Right now I'm in Florida trying to earn up some cold cash, so
        > that I
        > > can go home to my family in Flagstaff AZ. and not have to
        worry
        > about
        > > money for a while.
        > > It must be very cold out there - isn't it close to the Hopi
        etc
        > country?
        > > Good day, to you
        > > michael
      • elf
        But I can t tell them now. I can t do a mystery now. No I have two jobs here on earth and when you doing a real mystery then you are livin in the land of
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 1, 2005
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          But I can't tell them now. I can't do a mystery now. No I have two
          jobs here on earth and when you doing a real mystery then you are
          livin in the land of shiny moons and time is not a here or there.

          Then thats when the dream state and the waking state are all one.

          But I can't do it now.
          Its not time.
          Elf who needs rest.
          Elf who needs more

          And the bearded vulture does lay two eggs but she isn't pecked to
          death..She is not a bird of prey.

          Mmmm Cimi is not my whole name, just one of my whole names.

          I am Cimi - the magical child





          > Having thinked on this twice, wiv no judgements on I can telled
          that
          > its the bearded vulture. He's mine. He's the one I fly on the
          back
          > of. He's my bird friend.
          >
          > I can get a picture of him if you like.
          > Ooooh he's very beautiful. He's got feathery legs like an eagle
          and
          > a most beautiful face. Also feathers on. Not a long skinny bald
          > neck to dig in to the pie.
          > And I can tell you so many stories about him.
          >
          > Because I love him so much.
          >
          > Got to go.
          > Think once
          > Think twice
          > then what
          > >
          > > For a shaman, in understand, it's this process of entering a
          > whole
          > > and going for a journey finding your power animal etc. So, what
          > I'm
          > > interested in: where is this kind of whole within the
          > Ph.o.Freedom.
          > > And as I mentioned it yesterday, I have the suspicion (is that
          > > english?) it's there, where you have to do something different
          > with
          > > your thoughts, than what usually happens. That seems to be me an
          > > important moment, where one gains strength of overcome
          ahrimanic
          > > thought patterns.
          > > > So I was wondering, if there is anyone here - having done
          this
          > > journey already and could share some practical advice....
          > >
          > > I'd like to telled hallo. You can call me Cimi if you like,
          > > pronounced Kee-mee. White Lunar World Bridger.
          > >
          > > I can telled you more things when time is giving me more and
          more.
          > > Can't got time to fly everysingle where right now.
          > > No.
          > >
          > > So I have to wait.
          > > Mine could be an eagle. It could be, its definately a bird.
          But
          > > also it might be the lammervanger. It doesn't eat lambs, it
          > doesn't
          > > it loves marrow its best. And whats there to eat after marrows.
          > > Mmmm another thing the bushman telled is you can't suck the
          marrow
          > > from the bones in one sitting. It means you can't telled the
          > > stories of your life all in one go. Mmmm
          > > Now the eagle I telled this. Once there was another elf, before
          > > me. He died. He had to beed the wasp to take the seed to a new
          > > world so another Bushman woman could be borned fron the lily.
          > > MMmmm
          > >
          > > Love elf
          > >
          > > S
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Right now I'm in Florida trying to earn up some cold cash,
          so
          > > that I
          > > > can go home to my family in Flagstaff AZ. and not have to
          > worry
          > > about
          > > > money for a while.
          > > > It must be very cold out there - isn't it close to the Hopi
          > etc
          > > country?
          > > > Good day, to you
          > > > michael
        • shireesatsing
          And a man said, Speak to us of Self-Knowledge. And he answered, saying: Your hearts know in silence the secrets of the days and the nights. But your ears
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 1, 2005
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            And a man said, "Speak to us of Self-Knowledge."

            And he answered, saying:

            Your hearts know in silence the secrets of the days and the nights.

            But your ears thirst for the sound of your heart's knowledge.

            You would know in words that which you have always know in thought.

            You would touch with your fingers the naked body of your dreams.

            And it is well you should.

            The hidden well-spring of your soul must needs rise and run
            murmuring to the sea;

            And the treasure of your infinite depths would be revealed to your
            eyes.

            But let there be no scales to weigh your unknown treasure;

            And seek not the depths of your knowledge with staff or sounding
            line.

            For self is a sea boundless and measureless.

            Say not, "I have found the truth," but rather, "I have found a
            truth."

            Say not, "I have found the path of the soul." Say rather, "I have
            met the soul walking upon my path."

            For the soul walks upon all paths.

            The soul walks not upon a line, neither does it grow like a reed.

            The soul unfolds itself, like a lotus of countless petals.
































            .
          • Mike helsher
            ... is a ... might try ... France, in the cathar country. You might have heard about it. There have been some questions and observations about Mary Magdala on
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 1, 2005
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              --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Knaak" <mi-
              chael@w...> wrote:
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Mike helsher
              >
              > Wow, Your asking some huge questions. Going along for the ride
              is a
              > bit different than driving ay? Sounds like something that I
              might try
              > after living, studying, and practicing alone in the woods for a
              > couple of months.
              >
              > Yes, I did that. I left central Europe to live here in Southern
              France, in the cathar country. You might have heard about it. There
              have been some questions and observations about Mary Magdala on this
              list.
              > Here, her story is well known and lives, sort of in the woods,
              the rocks - the elements.
              > After hearing and studying so much - I came to this country
              here, on my own, just to find my own doorway to things.
              > Right now, I have almost read the Ph.o.Freedom and I will
              immediately start to read it anew. Sort of trying to find the right
              path through it - although it's very much linked to thinking, I like
              to take it like in a kind of shamanistic way. For a shaman, in
              understand, it's this process of entering a whole and going for a
              journey finding your power animal etc. So, what I'm interested in:
              where is this kind of whole within the Ph.o.Freedom. And as I
              mentioned it yesterday, I have the suspicion (is that english?) it's
              there, where you have to do something different with your thoughts,
              than what usually happens. That seems to be me an important moment,
              where one gains strength of overcome ahrimanic thought patterns.
              > So I was wondering, if there is anyone here - having done this
              journey already and could share some practical advice....

              As Dottie always says...Whew!

              There in might lie the eternal moment. Seems to me that ahrimanic
              thought patterns are mostly lineal, where everything sort of adds up
              in what looks like a logical fashion. I call them "logical
              Phallicies" with which we usually depict some kind
              of "charactoroligical disposition" for ourselves, if we are even
              prone to thinking about such things. This is face to face with the
              lesser guardian for me, and perhaps this idea of "doing something
              different with your thoughts" for some, requires focused attention
              on the transformation of this self created aspect of ourselves.
              This requires effort and courage and above all reverence, which is
              different kind of thinking for allot of us. My maya definately
              varies form yours though. The marrige of Cana depicts Christ turning
              water into wine. For me the wine has been slowly and painfully been
              turned into water, and it took a bit more that just cash register
              honesty to kick start this process. KHW blew my socks off cause it
              really puts the spotlight where it belongs, I think. "The kingdom of
              heaven is within you."

              I know allot about my own ignorance and arrogance, and sometimes I
              sling a bit of it in the faces of those that I suspect are coming
              form a similar place in their own souls. Again - My maya.

              I suspect that Harvey and Bradford and many others on this list
              might have deeper insights and practical experience to share, but I
              don't think that they would put it in the form of advice.

              I am still trying to understand a post that harvey wrote last year
              adn that I put up on my web site,

              http://www.freewebs.com/thefishercat/

              click on "heresy" at the top of the page or just scroll down. To me
              this message really speaks to what I think your talking about.

              I also wrote "the sea of Love" when thinking like I've never thought
              before (sounds a bit like star trek ay?) that is at the end bottom
              of the page. Wierd for me because I have never written anything like
              that before.

              >
              >
              >
              > Right now I'm in Florida trying to earn up some cold cash, so
              that I
              > can go home to my family in Flagstaff AZ. and not have to worry
              about
              > money for a while.
              > It must be very cold out there - isn't it close to the Hopi etc
              country?
              > Good day, to you
              > michael

              There are lots of reservations around Flagstaff, not sure if Hpoi is
              one of them.

              It does get cold there, but not like it did in New Hampshire. It
              will snow sometimes but then the Sun will melt it all away. I think
              there are about 300 on average sunny days a year out there and the
              air is dry for the most part. Not like here in florida where the
              humidity can be stifling at times.

              The Grand Canyon is a couple of hours away, and then there is Sedona
              about an hour south. Both always take my breath away. Flagstaff is
              at 7000 feet elevation and I found it hard to breath till I got used
              to it. Neat thing is that we can drive a couple hours south and
              experience a 20 to 30 degree difference in warmth. So we're not as
              trapped by the cold like we were in NH.

              Speaking of Sedona: Before I came to FL about a month ago, one of
              our wonderful list mates went there recently and came up to
              Flagstaff to visit another member of this list and didn't even come
              to visit me.... :( [sound of elbow in the side, and look of shit
              eating grin on my face]

              All the best

              Mike
            • Michael Knaak
              ... From: Mike helsher To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 10:15 PM Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Ph.of Freedom
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 2, 2005
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                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 10:15 PM
                Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Ph.of Freedom - shamans journey



                There in might lie the eternal moment. Seems to me that ahrimanic
                thought patterns are mostly lineal, where everything sort of adds up
                in what looks like a logical fashion. I call them "logical
                Phallicies" with which we usually depict some kind
                of "charactoroligical disposition" for ourselves, if we are even
                prone to thinking about such things. This is face to face with the
                lesser guardian for me, and perhaps this idea of "doing something
                different with your thoughts" for some, requires focused attention
                on the transformation of this self created aspect of ourselves.
                Hello Mike -  what I have noticed in re-reading the PhoF is, that Ahriman is attacked by the way, Steiner is guiding you through this "architecture". Although german is my mother tongue and I can read the original without problem, it's tough to follow every sentence - because it demands  constant focus - and  maybe that's an important element, to stop him interfering.
                By a couple of elements, I found myself suddenly capable to a certain degree of transforming this self created aspect of ourselves.
                This requires effort and courage and above all reverence, which is 
                different kind of thinking for allot of us.
                Yesterday I finished the last chapters of PhoF and I just love it. My soul felt always related to certain warriors - but I never was able to bring the anthroposophical aspect and the warrior aspect together. For the first time, I realize, that PhoF incarnates the spiritual warrior. In deeper contemplation about thinking, feeling and willing - we learn, that willing rises up, enters the thoughts, I suppose transforms the old patterns, thus the spirit world can enter.
                And again: here comes the "demand" that thinking about the thinking process opens a door.
                Now I wonder, what that is. Obviously it's the door, Steiner could enter - and this is a process that everyone could do today, doesn't need a special initiation.... - but if I look around, reading books by anthroposophical authors, talking to "well educated" anthroposophists, they usually answer me in a way, which I identify as everyday thinking that adds spiritual information to it.
                But is that, what Steiner talks about? Or is this a problem, that stops the unfolding of the being Sophia/Michael (etc) ?
                 
                My maya definately
                varies form yours though.
                What do you mean by -maya-?
                ......"The kingdom of heaven is within you."  : that is the meassage of the PhoFreedom.

                I know allot about my own ignorance and arrogance, and sometimes I
                sling a bit of it in the faces of those that I suspect are coming
                form a similar place in their own souls. Again - My maya.

                I suspect that Harvey and Bradford and many others on this list
                might have deeper insights and practical experience to share, but I
                don't think that they would put it in the form of advice.
                I'll watch out ....

                I am still trying to understand a post that harvey wrote last year
                adn that I put up on my web site,

                http://www.freewebs.com/thefishercat/

                click on "heresy" at the top of the page or just scroll down. To me
                this message really speaks to what I think your talking about.
                Thank you - I will do that as soon as possible.

                Heard a lot about Sedona - and Grand Canyon must be sacred too.
                I visited the Black Hills SD - that's the only region I know in the US.
                Did you just use drugs "for fun" ( I read some of your other e-mail) or did you work with it?
                mmmm we've got 300 and more sunny days, too.
                michael
                 
              • Mike helsher
                ... that Ahriman is attacked by the way, Steiner is guiding you through this architecture . Although german is my mother tongue and I can read the original
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 2, 2005
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                  --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Knaak" <mi-
                  chael@w...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Mike - what I have noticed in re-reading the PhoF is,
                  that Ahriman is attacked by the way, Steiner is guiding you through
                  this "architecture". Although german is my mother tongue and I can
                  read the original without problem, it's tough to follow every
                  sentence - because it demands constant focus - and maybe that's an
                  important element, to stop him interfering.

                  I think so. Every time that I read through the POF I sense a
                  different kind of thinking being nurtured in me. The demands on my
                  focus and attention are high. I think that thhinking "with the power
                  of love, in spiritual form" is definately a hinderance to the normal
                  ahrimanic thinking.

                  You know, I am really considering learning how to read German, so
                  that I can ponder Steiner in hsi native language.

                  > By a couple of elements, I found myself suddenly capable to a
                  certain degree of transforming this self created aspect of ourselves.


                  > This requires effort and courage and above all reverence, which
                  is
                  > different kind of thinking for allot of us.
                  >

                  Yesterday I finished the last chapters of PhoF and I just love it.
                  My soul felt always related to certain warriors - but I never was
                  able to bring the anthroposophical aspect and the warrior aspect
                  together. For the first time, I realize, that PhoF incarnates the
                  spiritual warrior. In deeper contemplation about thinking, feeling
                  and willing - we learn, that willing rises up, enters the thoughts,
                  I suppose transforms the old patterns, thus the spirit world can
                  enter.
                  > And again: here comes the "demand" that thinking about the
                  thinking process opens a door.
                  > Now I wonder, what that is. Obviously it's the door, Steiner
                  could enter - and this is a process that everyone could do today,
                  doesn't need a special initiation.... - but if I look around,
                  reading books by anthroposophical authors, talking to "well
                  educated" anthroposophists, they usually answer me in a way, which I
                  identify as everyday thinking that adds spiritual information to it.
                  > But is that, what Steiner talks about? Or is this a problem,
                  that stops the unfolding of the being Sophia/Michael (etc) ?

                  I often wonder about patience. And vigilance. I have faith in the
                  idea that with the right attitude and effort, that we will all find
                  what it is that we are looking for - when we least expect it.
                  >
                  > My maya definately
                  > varies form yours though.

                  > What do you mean by -maya-?

                  My personal biographical illusions about reality.

                  >> ......"The kingdom of heaven is within you." :

                  >that is the meassage of the PhoFreedom.

                  I agree. I've also heard that the POF is in a sense a re-writing
                  of "the Gospel of St. John."



                  > Did you just use drugs "for fun" ( I read some of your other e-
                  mail) or did you work with it?

                  Well, I'm certianly working with in now, in that I have a rich bed
                  of tilled soil from which to grow from. And no I wouldn't say that I
                  used drugs for fun. I mostly used them to escape pain.

                  > mmmm we've got 300 and more sunny days, too.
                  > michael

                  Sound like a nice place that your in. I forgot to comment on you
                  saying that the Magdalene was in the soil, so to speak. I've heard
                  lots of stuff like that about sedona too.

                  all the best

                  Mike
                • Frank Thomas Smith
                  You know, I am really considering learning how to read German, so that I can ponder Steiner in hsi native language. Good luck - it s pretty difficult. But for
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 3, 2005
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                    You know, I am really considering learning how to read German, so
                    that I can ponder Steiner in hsi native language.
                    Good luck - it's pretty difficult. But for understanding Steiners teaching it might be worthwhile. Sometimes its hard for me to understand, how Steiners german can be translated. He often uses phrases which we wouldn't use like that today - but I'll guess, that's where spiritual thinking enters the language.

                    This may surprise some people, but imo a good translation is easier to understand that Steiner's original, because the translator will avoid archaic words and expressions and do his/her best to make Steiner's sometimes tortuously long and convoluted sentences clear. Speaking of PhoF, Michael Wilson's translation is a good example of this where, just as an example, he uses "mental picture" for "Vorstellung", instead of the literal "representation".
                    Frank
                  • Michael Knaak
                    ... From: Mike helsher I think so. Every time that I read through the POF I sense a different kind of thinking being nurtured in me. The demands on my focus
                    Message 9 of 12 , Feb 3, 2005
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                      ----- Original Message -----


                      I think so. Every time that I read through the POF I sense a
                      different kind of thinking being nurtured in me. The demands on my 
                      focus and attention are high. I think that thhinking "with the power
                      of love, in spiritual form" is definately a hinderance to the normal
                      ahrimanic thinking.
                      Isn't that great! I will re-read the POF in order to find a shorter way through it. As far as I remember, Steiner told students at the time, that the POF could/should be rewritten some decades later. Would be wonderful to concentrate the text to a kind of contemplation.

                      You know, I am really considering learning how to read German, so
                      that I can ponder Steiner in hsi native language.
                      Good luck - it's pretty difficult. But for understanding Steiners teaching it might be worthwhile. Sometimes its hard for me to understand, how Steiners german can be translated. He often uses phrases which we wouldn't use like that today - but I'll guess, that's where spiritual thinking enters the language.



                      I often wonder about patience. And vigilance. I have faith in the
                      idea that with the right attitude and effort, that we will all find
                      what it is that we are looking for - when we least expect it.
                       
                      You're right. - This morning I tried it again. Took a word (Begriff) from a meditation and then I just activated my will in order to "travel" with the word. Were would it take me? So I experienced a lot of light, light-structure - but nothing I could understand in terms of words .... just mighty feelings.
                      >
                      >   My maya definately
                      >   varies form yours though.

                      >   What do you mean by -maya-?

                      My personal biographical illusions about reality.
                      Isn't that part of your own "program", your own wish to go through all of this, in order to gain strength? Would it thus be maya?



                      I agree. I've also heard that the POF is in a sense a re-writing
                      of "the Gospel of St. John."
                      Wow - could you give me a hint, were I could find some more background.
                      Last night I "found out", that spiritual thinking still is alive until puberty, sort of kind of a present from pre-earthly live. Thus education would be so important - that this element isn't killed, destroyed....



                      Well, I'm certianly working with in now, in that I have a rich bed
                      of tilled soil from which to grow from. And no I wouldn't say that I
                      used drugs for fun. I mostly used them to escape pain.
                      I thought, you might be involved with Don Juans teachings.


                      >   mmmm we've got 300 and more sunny days, too.
                      >   michael

                      Sound like a nice place that your in.
                      The Pyrenees (westwards they reach out to Santiago di Compostella)  have been spiritual "clean" for a long time. Thus the etheric is very rich and often unspoiled.
                       
                       I've heard
                      lots of stuff like that about sedona too.
                      Sedona initiation would take you through all the chakras, isn't it?

                      all the best
                      michael




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