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Re: my take on Prokoffief - Dottie

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  • Stephen Clarke
    Hi Dottie: ... I just want to say thank you reading me and responding in the way that you do. We agree and we disagree and that s fin and maybe some of that
    Message 1 of 55 , Jan 1, 2005
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      Hi Dottie:

      dottie zold <dottie_z@y...> wrote:

      > Dear Stephen,
      >
      > If you...

      I just want to say thank you reading me and responding in the way that
      you do. We agree and we disagree and that's fin and maybe some of
      that can be cleared up. But for now, since I used up so much of my
      time in writing my first post to you, I just want to say that I do not
      base my case about P. on _anything_ other that what I read in his many
      books and in the few correspondence exchanges which I have had with
      him (he is polite but declines to discuss anything about the content
      or sources of his work in anything other than the most general terms.)

      So let us please not waste our precious time on those red herring
      distractions. You do credit to him that you support him in such fiery
      fashion. If he had more like you on his side I would think better of him.

      I'll answer in detail later, if you can be patient!

      Stephen
    • Stephen Clarke
      Dear Brad: Wonderful stuff! In my no doubt exasperating fashion, I say but : ... Oh Brad, but it is! This is the secret of America that no one recognizes,
      Message 55 of 55 , Jan 10, 2005
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        Dear Brad:

        Wonderful stuff! In my no doubt exasperating fashion, I say "but":


        "holderlin66" <holderlin66@h...> wrote:
        > ...We like to think of ourselves
        > so advanced and raise up, rightly, various Joseph Campbell Native
        > American myths and realities... I love to integrate their researches
        > with the depths of Occult Science, but I stand to differ with
        > Stephen, that I think amazing substantiation and credit is due, but
        > like the wonderful Hindu myths and occult vision, Spiritual and
        > mythic history, it must be caught up the current Christology Event
        > of Golgotha and the clear depths of Occult Science an Outline.


        Oh Brad, but it is! This is the secret of America that no one
        recognizes, or, recognizing, admits: that Jesus/Christ, who went down
        to ignominous overt failure in the Middle East - tortured and executed
        like scum, risen to only a secret few, his message coopted by
        political empire, the true disciples mostly martyrs at the hand of the
        Church erected to fossilize the impulse, etc., etc. - this Christ was
        openly honored by those in the Americas who recognized him and served
        him in has passage through the human dimension, and who kept his
        active message alive for half a millenium in what might just have been
        the one true utopia that mankind has ever known.

        Yet this _successful_ impulse continues to be marginalized and
        ignored. Perhaps the racial guilt incured by the events of 1492 (as
        Malcom X said about a similar instance" "We didn't land on Plymouth
        Rock, Plymouth rock landed on US!") is responsible for our culture's
        reluctance to appreciate the glory of what we destroyed.

        In spite of Steiner's explicit indications, and revealing of our own
        disposition, only the dark echo of what was confronted and redeemed is
        emphasized.

        I submit that true christianity flourished in the Land of the Far West
        and is still remembered in the Mythos of the Traditions that contain
        it. Not myths, but accurate and vital Imaginations still live in the
        physical Land of America. This is true.

        Brad, you are a true American, along with Joel, Dottie, and some
        others here, (anyone who is half crazy qualifies!) but I would like to
        ask you to try and ground yourself just a little bit more in what has
        always been alive here. Read Stiener's GA 171: the elib has a copy of
        the Sept. 18 and Sept. 24, 1916 lectures in which Stiener describes
        how the arch-shaman Vitzliputzli, Palladin of Christ, opens the way
        for Christ into the UnderWorld, the womb-body of the Earth. This is a
        _real_ christinity, one that is still taboo for its European-oriented
        variants.

        Most Sincerely,

        Stephen
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