The Secret Stream
- Dear Friends,
I have begun reading The Secret Stream by Dr. Steiner and I jumped
quickly to see a thing pertaining to a poem by Goethe. And I shall
share it quickly as I think it pertains to the conversation as to how
the Doctor sees the evolution of a thing.
December 25, 1907
page 100 +:
(...) this poem, indeed, reamined a fragment, but one that shows us
in a deeply significant way the inner spiritual developement of an
individual who is penetrated and convinced by the feelings and ideas
I have just described.
Goethe invites us first to follow the pilgrim path of such an
individual. He indicates that this pilgrim path may lead us far
astray, that it is not easy to find it, and that one must have
patience and devotion to reach the goal. Whoever possesses these will
find the light that he or she seeks.
Let us hear the beginning of the poem:
I have made a wonderful song for you -
Hear it gladly! Call everyone t listen!
The way leads you through mountains and valleys,
Now your view is restricted,now it is free again.
If the path gently disappears into the bushes,
Don't think it's a mistake -
When the time is right, when we have climbed enough,
We shall approach our goal.
Let no one think, no matter how deeply they reflect,
That they will unravel all the wonders hidden here.
Nevertheless, many people will gain many things on this way
For Mother Earth produces many flowers.
Some may leave with downcast eyes,
But others, with cheerful gestures, will stay:
This way will bring everyone a different pleasure.
For the spring flows for many pilgrims.
This is the situation to which we are introduced. Then, we are
shown "Brother Mark," a pilgrim who, if we were to ask him, would not
be able to express formally what we have just seen to be the esoteric
Christian idea, but in whose heart and soul these ideas live,
transformed into feeling. It is not easy to discover everything that
has been secreted into this poem called 'The Mysteries'. In it,
Goethe has clearly indicated a process ocurring in human life in
which the highest ideas, thoughts, and conceptions are transformed
into feelings and perceptions.
How does this tranformation take place?
We live through many embodiments, from incarnation to incarnation. In
each, we learn many things, each full of opportunities for gathering
new experiences. We cannot carry over everything in every detail from
one incarnation to the another. When we are born again it is not
necessary for everything that we have learned a great deal in one
incarnatin and then die and are born anew, although there is no need
for all our ideas to live again, we come to life with the fruits of
our former life, with the fruits of what we have learned. Our powers
of perception and feeling are in accord with our earlier incarnations.
In this poem, we have a wonderful phenomenon: an individual who, in
the simplist words - as a child might speak, not in definite
intellectual or abstract terms - shows us the highest wisdom, which
is a fruit of a former knowledge. He has transformed this knowledge
into feeling and experience and is thereby qualified to lead others
who have perhaps learned more in the form of concepts.'
Well of course he goes on but I stop here. One must include former
lives when looking into a soul state of a person. And if you can not
know that then one would hope one would be dilligent in what is
concluded about a person and thier soul state today.
- Hi Dottie,
>I found the Goethe poem/Steiner commentary excerpt interesting,
> Well of course he goes on but I stop here. One must include former
> lives when looking into a soul state of a person. And if you can not
> know that then one would hope one would be dilligent in what is
> concluded about a person and thier soul state today."
Dottie. Yeah, it does seem likely that a past incarnation provides a
tone or sensibility in the next life in the form of feeling.
When you suggest that an appreciation of those legacies in the soul
helps our understanding of that soul - whether past lives or current
soul development state - do you believe this is possible at any time
in a given life, and would it be more fruitful to develop this
understanding of a person earlier in their life or in their more
mature years? I ask this because I seem to remember Steiner saying
that a human is influenced by the prior lifetime up to the point their
of the early 30s (32 to be exact...I think), after which the soul
develops it's course in terms of the present lifetimes experiences.
> I found the Goethe poem/Steiner commentary excerptHey Keith,
> Dottie. Yeah, it does seem likely that a past
> incarnation provides a
> tone or sensibility in the next life in the form of
I don't know that one has to appreciate them, rather I
think it should be taken into consideration, previous
incarnated learnings, when judging a man's soul state
in the here and now. And I also believe that one must
take in not just the last life of learning but that of
others as well, as I understand from some of Dr.
Steiners teachings, that one incarnation can be a
great one and another one a time off in a sense.
> When you suggest that an appreciation of thoseI don't know that one needs to look at the soul state
> legacies in the soul
> helps our understanding of that soul - whether past
> lives or current
> soul development state - do you believe this is
> possible at any time
> in a given life, and would it be more fruitful to
> develop this
> understanding of a person earlier in their life or
> in their more
> mature years?
of another man in the first place without the other
persons consent on a level that was done to Mr.
Prokofieff. I mean how can you judge a mans soul state
without knowing his particular bio of today and
previous lifetimes. How can one know what a man has
chosen as his purpose of soul?
I think it is superficial and speaks of the person so
doing a bio on another because they do not like the
direction of the way a thing is going. In the case of
Mr. Prokofieff one can always write to counter his
books and so forth but to counter him in such a way as
to 'out' him without the prerequesit data is
vindictive to me.
I ask this because I seem to remember
> Steiner sayingCould be Kim, I don't know these things for myself.
> that a human is influenced by the prior lifetime up
> to the point their
> of the early 30s (32 to be exact...I think), after
> which the soul
> develops it's course in terms of the present
> lifetimes experiences.
Either way I am a believer in that one soul's state is
not open for public discussion if you do not have all
the tools. And from what I can see of how this was
handled it was not known and I find that
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- Hey Keith, sorry about the Kim thing. There used to be a Kim here and
then with the first letters of your signinname I keep writing Kim.
- Ho problem, Dottie. You know, I've been called Kevin by some now and
then. Must be a syllabic thing.
--- In email@example.com, "dottie zold"
> Hey Keith, sorry about the Kim thing. There used to be a Kim here and
> then with the first letters of your signinname I keep writing Kim.
> Thanks, Dottie
- Well, I've been thinking about this Christian Rosenkruex a bit and I
picked up Dr. Steiner's book The Secret Stream. While reading a
chapter it ocurred to me to think back to the Nathan Jesus soul and
how this is really never explained by the Dr. or at least not to my
readings or understandings or rememberences of his work.
I am wont to share what may seem like a far fetched idea that may put
me in the laughing stock again but I'm kinda used to it by now. If we
look at what Dr. Steiner says about how the etheric body of this
child was in the earthly realm and how it returned again almost
completely intact when he died in the thirteenth century and actually
that is what we are kinda impacted by today I keep coming back to the
Mary/Eve soul within the Nathan Jesus boy line. And beings this
switched over to the other 'Mary' I can say this is how the Magdalene
keeps coming up for me in all these works: she is involved with this
etheric line somehow through the Sophian soul of this Mary/Eve.
Something is in that mix somehow and I don't know how to rightly say
So, the picture I get is the Nathan boy soul either leaving at the
entrance of the Zarathusthra soul at the age of thirteen and thereby
staying within the earthly etheric realm or..................well I
can't hold it.
Point being, I can see this naked youth/soul as the expression of the
Mary soul that then flees at the capture of Jesus the Christ. I still
can find no Lazarus within this as of yet. And it is going to be
quite interesting to read this book and see wherein this Lazarus idea
is brought into the Secret Stream.
- Well, looking at the secrecy surrounding where the story originally
takes place and contemplating as to why that can not be told, well it
could not be told during Dr. Steiner's time on earth, I think it has
to do with what this 'secret place' would reveal about the history of
those that supposedly left Palestine and headed for the shores of
France. That's what I think.
But I think it can be told today, as to where. I think the shepards
have already gotten it and then it will be up to the Magi to fill us
in. But it seems that the Magi are so caught up in their intelligence
that they can not sense what it is that the Shepards are feeling. And
I think the editor of many of these books that I am reading Bramford
is extremely gifted in the spiritual Light. Light of Sophia that is.
God, there really is such a lamguage in Dr. STeiner's work that once
one catches on one can see ever deeper into what he was bringing. He
was a shepard and a magi at the same time: A Michaelic intelligence,
with a Sophian Wisdom, and a Christ's love. That must be the mix of
the two streams somehow.
Dr. Steiner has a beautiful understanding as to the differences
between these two streams. What I love most wonderfully are his words
about the Shepards: they 'felt' the changes in the earth as the
Christ neared. They knew the earth so well that they felt it within
the sphere with their whole beings and then this rose to Imagination.
So, I think it is possible that the place we are speaking of is
France. And I think it is tied to those wonderful journeymen who are
considered to have journedy there, and there are SEVEN of them
mentioned in the boat: the Magdalene, Mary, Martha, Lazarus, Joseph
of Arimethea, and the body of Anne, the Mother of the Virgin. This
SEVEN could indeed be the seven, that meet the five Rishis. I am
still not in the place of holding to the idea that these seven left
in a boat with no oars and so forth. I think it is an explaantion as
to the msytery although I do not know for sure. Somehow it could be
that the people were trying to express a new 'feeling' of sorts that
came from Palestine to France by way of the spirit, water. I do not
know as I am not looking yet.
Upon waking this morning I found my self looking for Paulo Cuelo's
book The Pilgrimage. And sure enough it was from France to Spain. And
it is considered to be the road to be guided by one St. James and the
Magdalene. We spoke on this before here at AT but I never connected
the people in the boat with the story of the Rosecrucians. And that
would make sense to me as to why it is a hidden secret: people would
directly connect the Feminine Mysteries at a time before it was
planted securely in the hearts of those that would awaken to it
today. Well, these are my thoughtx as to a possibility as to why.
All good things,
> So, I think it is possible that the place we are speaking of isconsidered to have journedy there, and there are SEVEN of them
> France. And I think it is tied to those wonderful journeymen who are
> mentioned in the boat: the Magdalene, Mary, Martha, Lazarus, JosephOoops, I forgot the handmaiden: Sarai, whether in body or spirit I have
> of Arimethea, and the body of Anne, the Mother of the Virgin. This
> SEVEN could indeed be the seven, that meet the five Rishis.