Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: occult lodges and islam
- Hello Everyone,
I tried to send a (somewhat lengthy) introduction when I signed up for this
group, but it disappeared when I hit the send button. At some point, I will try
again. In the meantime, I would like to jump into this discussion about
Islam. I hear over and over again so many platitudes about Islam being a beautiful
religion. Well, after 911 I decided to see for myself and I downloaded most of
the Koran and started to read it. I haven't read it through and I can't say
100% that it is what I think it is, but my impression so far is that it is a
mish-mash of old testament stories combined with the kind of hell and brimstone
stuff that would make a Southern Baptist pale in comparison. There is no
forgiveness, no flexibility. Everything is totally black and white, us and them,
heaven and hell. No possiblility of interpretation or redemption.
And even if that were not enough, one must have a critical eye toward any
religion in its practice as well as its theory. There is nothing of love or
understanding or forgiveness in any of its practices, either. There is only power
and oppression, and I mean particularly to its own people, especially women.
Of course, the same can certainly be said about Christianity in practice
throughout the ages. I am embarrassed to consider myself any kind of Christian,
even though I am, because it puts me on such a wicked team. No one was right in
the Crusades. Everyone was out for power. And all power ploys involve gaining
the support of the masses through emotional indoctrination.
I disagree wholeheartedly with the lady who called Sophia of the past and the
Christ of the Future. It is God the Father who is of the eternal past, the
ground of being from which all eminates. Christ is of the now. He lives in every
breath and every heartbeat. The Sophia is the Holy Spirit, the "female" of
the Trinity - she is the force of transformation, an impulse which can only come
from the future. There can be no change without an archetype of that change
coming from the future.
I am as afraid of the "Christians" as I am of the "Moslems" and the "Jews". I
am afraid of any people who identify themselves with a religious belief
system that comes with laws and a singular path to God. When Christ said "I AM the
Way and the Truth and the Light, no one comes to the Father except through
Me." He was referring to the "I AM" of which he was at the time a physical
embodiment. After His Death and Resurrection, the "I AM" was fully incarnated into
the individual human being through the transformative power of Mary at the
first Pentecost. It was through Her incarnation of the Holy Spirit that the true
"I AM" came into the people in the upper room (Men & Women) and from there
began to spread to all of humanity. This spreading was not through the
proselytizing, preaching and converting that the disciples did, but rather, as a
homeopathic remedy, from their mere presence in the human community.
Just as Christ's blood flowed from the cross into the Earth body, acting as a
homeopathic remedy for the fatal illness the Earth was infected with (see the
Fifth Gospel), the presence of human beings carrying the flame of the Holy
Spirit was enough to heal the body, soul and spirit of all who they touched.
These people then went out and healed all who they had contact with.
The process which then began to manifest itself as a "church" after the fall
of the Temple of Jerusalem was an early Arhimanic imitation of this healing
process. Come to us and we will absolve your sins and fit you for heaven became
a slogan for the power elite. Mohammed just adapted it to fit the sons of
Ishmael. Both of these power structures are in place and thriving and both seek
to keep individual human beings from experiencing the reality of the Etheric
Christ who manifests in every moment, in every heartbeat.
This "war" is not about Christianity and Islam or Judaism and Islam or
Christianity and Judaism or any other combination. They are all the same in their
manifestation as power structures. And the true powers of this earth reside in
none of them. The true powers of the earth just use them as emotional tools to
gather masses of humanity and enslave them to their purpose. The conflict
itself is of that purpose. To believe anyone right or wrong in what you see and
hear over the media is a fool's game. There are sources of the truth still,
although for how long, we have to wonder.
To hear Anthroposophists back General Boykin (?) is just as bad as saying
that the Crusades were "holy wars". Of course they were not holy. Nothing
associated with fear is holy. Spiritually necessary? I don't think so. Although an
initiate may look back on any event (even the incarnation of Hitler) and see
some positive long range spiritual energies set in motion as sort of a back lash
effect, one has to take a moment and say "But did it REALLY have to be that
way?" "Could mankind have done it differently and achieved the same or even a
What would this country be like today if we had met the native populations in
the same spirit that they, for the most part, met us? What if European man
had come only searching for freedom and new experiences of life, rather than
gold and slaves (Columbus' expressed intentions and no other!) I refuse to
believe that Columbus was an initiate, and if he really was, then I do not want to
be associated with any initiate!
What WOULD this country today be like if we hadn't committed unimaginable
terrorism on millions of unsuspecting human beings, if the very ground beneath
our feet was not still running with psychic blood? What kind of "New World"
would we have found?? Utopia? Maybe not, but something far better than what we
live with now.
Rudolf Steiner was a revolutionary. He was a political revolutionary who put
together the most radical approach to social order that exists yet on this
planet. And he placed it on the table in front of Winston Churchill and Woodrow
Wilson at the Treaty of Versailles. And he stated afterward that the fact that
it was not adopted as the right solution to the world's conflicts of 1918/
1919 was proof that mankind was not spiritually, mentally and even physically
ready for the Threefold Social Order. Then he brought forward Waldorf Education
as a revolutionary act, a subversive act - it has the express intention of
making at least a homeopathic element of society ready for the Threefold Social
Order. To say otherwise is a lie. Many Waldorf schools, teachers and promoters
are liars and I will say that to their faces. The time for politely hiding the
truth from the parents and even teachers who come to them and to deny that
what they are doing may be very dangerous in the future is a real crime.
Does that mean that Waldorf schools shouldn't exist? Of course not - they
must exist as long as the powers of this earth decide to allow it (which may not
be much longer). But the work should be done in the clear light of day.
Everyone should understand the real WAR that is raging around us as we sit in our
comfortable houses with food on our tables. By the time we go to stand in line
for our chips and bar codes that will allow us to keep paying our mortgage and
buying our groceries, we should be prepared to recognize it as just the
sense-perceptible result of the supersensible battle going on right now.
YOU may not believe that you are personally affected yet. But people all
around you are being rounded up and killed right now in the name of the "holy" the
"good" the "American way of life." YOU will be next. You will succumb or die,
one way or another. You can succumb to the truth and die physically, or can
succumb to the powers of this earth and die spiritually. You have the choice to
make. It is the ONLY choice that you will have to make in the days to come.
I apologize for the ranting, but this talk of "little words in "soft voices"
so that we can all see how lovely each other's religions are makes me sick.
Dottie, please don't take this personally - YOU don't make me sick - I know that
you are well intentioned and desiring above all else to work for love and
make a difference and this is completely valid on a one to one, interpersonal
basis. But it won't do in the larger arena. "Love" will heal us but it won't
shield us. We must have Truth also. "Love" didn't keep Christ off the cross - it
put Him there!
Understand this. We must see "face to face" and not "as children" as Paul
said (sorry for the truncation). Humanity is no longer in its infancy, when it
was expected to follow its leaders unquestioning as a young child does its
parents, right or wrong. It is no longer in its childhood or teens. We have come
far along the way toward being able to discover ourselves as individuals. I
believe that we have reached 21 and we must understand that from here on out we
will be expected to act out of our Egos and to bear the full weight of
responsibility for each and every one of our thoughts, words and deeds. We can no more
take refuge in ignorance or common habit. We can't say "Well, he did it
first." We will be punished for breaking the spiritual laws just as surely as we
will be arrested for killing someone while driving drunk. But "God" won't punish
us - "Allah" won't punish us - "Yaweh" won't punish us - we will punish
ourselves. We will just find the instant karma come boomeranging back on us and know
that we were the ones who threw the stick in the first place.
Wake up sleepers, awake! The time is at hand and we cannot rest in dreams.
Follow the trail of truth on the internet while it is still there to see. I will
post links to important sites. We can not stop Ahriman's incarnation - it has
already happened. But we can look him in the eye just before we die and say
"I KNOW who you are - you cannot fool me! At least one human being knows who
you really are." It's not much, but it is on this that the world hangs in the
With love and hope,
To Walk on Water
I want to learn, in time, to walk on water.
My faith, constantly being put to the test
Fails me most often, tossed on the waves
Of our reasonable and unholy age.
It is not true that we are never given
More than our souls can grasp
Or rise above. We often sink beneath
The thunderous waves of unforeseen misfortunes.
The broken masts wash ashore each day
And wreckage is a common sight along
These beaches; yet in the silence of grey
Morning fog, I stalwartly lift my sail again.
I cannot swim well, and fear the creatures
Of the deep, unknown and hideous companions
Who are with me always, even unto the end of time,
And for whom I am responsible.
White mountains on a farther shore are calling me.
The day is clear but windy, cold and rough.
I'll try again to reach the distant courses
Where hope and faith fail not in winter's measures.
For thought I sink and break upon the waters-
Denied the saving angel's last minute solace;
Life has not yet overturned for me the truth
That someday we shall learn to walk on water.
Christine Natale 2000 all rights reserved
New World Center
How deep the grave to hold
Our world which has grown old
With countless lives untold
Earth, cloven to the core
Reveals the precious ore
Those gone forevermore
So fill the grave with tears
Our hopes, our dreams, our fears
The memories of lost years
Let living waters rise
And fill the void inside
Renewing hope and pride
And from the water's deep
Arising from death's sleep
All those for whom we weep
Together we will see
What we are meant to be
When all the world is free
A new world shining bright
Alive with freedom's might
True love and wisdom's light
Christine Natale 2000 all rights reserved
- Hi Tarjei,
In reading this book by Karen Armstrong I am getting a
better 'feel' for Muhammed and what he endeavored to
bring to his people.
One of the things that strikes me is that its path was
similar to that of Judiasm: in order to get to one God
they had to take down the 'daughters of God'. That was
the missing piece for Muhammed on the way to
monotheism as it was for the Jews.
Interestingly as well is that what he was working on
was a change of consciousness from family blood ties
to spirit ties that outgrow the familial bounds
similar to Jesus' concepts in a way.
I find that Muhammed was very much inspired by the
story of Mary and Jesus. There is a reference to them
early on that actually insinuates to the exoteric way
of reading her being a virgin. However when reading it
from an esoteric level the 'veil' being lifted is
Well, what I am coming to is that Muhammed seems to
have brought a religion that centered on surrendering
(islam) ones total self to God. And the way to show
that was through letting go of worldly goods and
giving to the poor and taking care of them. But what
strikes me is this absolute 'feel' I have about the
self (nafas) getting its house in order. So, in a way
although it is one religion it seems to be made up of
singular people on a quest for God. Although they call
themselves Muslims as one their quest is really each
one by themselves. It kind of reminds me a wee bit of
Self Realization Fellowship by Paramahansa Yogananda.
It has that sense of righting oneself before God.
Almost like he took the Christ revelation and and then
became one of the men that achieved a self
revelation. Almost reminds me of the snake.
At one point the book speaks of 'exciting' the hatred
of the Jews. It is pretty apparant that they were
considered 'trash' among the peoples in that region.
And it seems they truly never recovered even unto this
day their own sense of worth. Almost as if they are
always in the place of having to defend their honor.
And not really only their own but that of their
Prophet as well. They know he is not what the Western
world says and they are always fighting some uphill
battle in their minds.
One last thing before I go. I find it extremely
interesting that the Satanic Versus as related by
Rushdie actually speak to two lines where Muhammed
gave credence to the 'daughters of God'. He then tried
to and actually did take the versus back and claimed
that they were slaves just as the everyday people
were, and that one could not look to them for guidance
Well, maybe this is the last piece before I go:) They
have the most remarkable references to Satan that I
have ever seen. To them their was no original sin.
Muhammed believed that this was all a part of Gods
plan. That in the end Satan will be the last to be
saved but he will be. Also he states that it is Satan
who loved God the most. I think of Lucifer here.
Anyway, the more I read of this Muhammed the more I
come to understand how he was able to achieve what he
did in such a short time. He truly had his face on God
and inspired others to do the same.
Tarjei you wrote:
> This point of yours was actually corroborated byTarjei
> Rudolf Steiner when he
> said that Arabic materialism was blunted by the
> emergence of Islam. So RS
> implies that this religion was a progressive force
> when it was introduced
> in the 7th century. Apparently, the destructive
> forces inherent in
> "Arabism" and connected with 666, Sorath and so on,
> has hijacked this
> religious stream because it has outlived its alotted
> era long ago.
> Specific manifestations of egoism. When a young manDottie
> kills men, women, and
> children at random by blowing himself to pieces with
> them in the firm
> belief that he will be rewarded with 70 virgins in
> Paradise for such a
> deed, we're not only talking about merciless egoism,
> but a specific variety
> of it, probably exclusively found among Muslims.
Yeah, this thing with the virgins bothers me a bit. I
think it is ridiculing them and this is not what
Muhammed had in mind physically. When I sink into the
Koran I will see what that means. In the mean time I
am going to speak to my friend about this.
I am not so sure it is found exclusively among Muslims
but I do not know how to make the argument. What comes
to mind are the 'fundies' of the world. We have people
here in the states killing doctors who perform
abortions in recent years. And I believe it will only
get worse as the right gets more power in regards to
other segments of society as well. We are about to
face the 'gay rights to marriage issue' and this is a
powder keg waiting to go. And they believe they are
doing what God would want them to do. Its pretty
And I wonder what is the difference regarding the ego
of having 70 virgins versus doing an evil thing for
p.s. I know I am not the best one to converse on this
subject however I would like to say it has inspired me
to become more knowledgable regarding a group of
people who are going to light the world on fire.
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