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Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: occult lodges and islam

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  • golden3000997@cs.com
    Hello Everyone, I tried to send a (somewhat lengthy) introduction when I signed up for this group, but it disappeared when I hit the send button. At some
    Message 1 of 31 , Nov 6, 2003
      Hello Everyone,

      I tried to send a (somewhat lengthy) introduction when I signed up for this
      group, but it disappeared when I hit the send button. At some point, I will try
      again. In the meantime, I would like to jump into this discussion about
      Islam. I hear over and over again so many platitudes about Islam being a beautiful
      religion. Well, after 911 I decided to see for myself and I downloaded most of
      the Koran and started to read it. I haven't read it through and I can't say
      100% that it is what I think it is, but my impression so far is that it is a
      mish-mash of old testament stories combined with the kind of hell and brimstone
      stuff that would make a Southern Baptist pale in comparison. There is no
      forgiveness, no flexibility. Everything is totally black and white, us and them,
      heaven and hell. No possiblility of interpretation or redemption.

      And even if that were not enough, one must have a critical eye toward any
      religion in its practice as well as its theory. There is nothing of love or
      understanding or forgiveness in any of its practices, either. There is only power
      and oppression, and I mean particularly to its own people, especially women.

      Of course, the same can certainly be said about Christianity in practice
      throughout the ages. I am embarrassed to consider myself any kind of Christian,
      even though I am, because it puts me on such a wicked team. No one was right in
      the Crusades. Everyone was out for power. And all power ploys involve gaining
      the support of the masses through emotional indoctrination.

      I disagree wholeheartedly with the lady who called Sophia of the past and the
      Christ of the Future. It is God the Father who is of the eternal past, the
      ground of being from which all eminates. Christ is of the now. He lives in every
      breath and every heartbeat. The Sophia is the Holy Spirit, the "female" of
      the Trinity - she is the force of transformation, an impulse which can only come
      from the future. There can be no change without an archetype of that change
      coming from the future.

      I am as afraid of the "Christians" as I am of the "Moslems" and the "Jews". I
      am afraid of any people who identify themselves with a religious belief
      system that comes with laws and a singular path to God. When Christ said "I AM the
      Way and the Truth and the Light, no one comes to the Father except through
      Me." He was referring to the "I AM" of which he was at the time a physical
      embodiment. After His Death and Resurrection, the "I AM" was fully incarnated into
      the individual human being through the transformative power of Mary at the
      first Pentecost. It was through Her incarnation of the Holy Spirit that the true
      "I AM" came into the people in the upper room (Men & Women) and from there
      began to spread to all of humanity. This spreading was not through the
      proselytizing, preaching and converting that the disciples did, but rather, as a
      homeopathic remedy, from their mere presence in the human community.

      Just as Christ's blood flowed from the cross into the Earth body, acting as a
      homeopathic remedy for the fatal illness the Earth was infected with (see the
      Fifth Gospel), the presence of human beings carrying the flame of the Holy
      Spirit was enough to heal the body, soul and spirit of all who they touched.
      These people then went out and healed all who they had contact with.

      The process which then began to manifest itself as a "church" after the fall
      of the Temple of Jerusalem was an early Arhimanic imitation of this healing
      process. Come to us and we will absolve your sins and fit you for heaven became
      a slogan for the power elite. Mohammed just adapted it to fit the sons of
      Ishmael. Both of these power structures are in place and thriving and both seek
      to keep individual human beings from experiencing the reality of the Etheric
      Christ who manifests in every moment, in every heartbeat.

      This "war" is not about Christianity and Islam or Judaism and Islam or
      Christianity and Judaism or any other combination. They are all the same in their
      manifestation as power structures. And the true powers of this earth reside in
      none of them. The true powers of the earth just use them as emotional tools to
      gather masses of humanity and enslave them to their purpose. The conflict
      itself is of that purpose. To believe anyone right or wrong in what you see and
      hear over the media is a fool's game. There are sources of the truth still,
      although for how long, we have to wonder.

      To hear Anthroposophists back General Boykin (?) is just as bad as saying
      that the Crusades were "holy wars". Of course they were not holy. Nothing
      associated with fear is holy. Spiritually necessary? I don't think so. Although an
      initiate may look back on any event (even the incarnation of Hitler) and see
      some positive long range spiritual energies set in motion as sort of a back lash
      effect, one has to take a moment and say "But did it REALLY have to be that
      way?" "Could mankind have done it differently and achieved the same or even a
      better effect?"

      What would this country be like today if we had met the native populations in
      the same spirit that they, for the most part, met us? What if European man
      had come only searching for freedom and new experiences of life, rather than
      gold and slaves (Columbus' expressed intentions and no other!) I refuse to
      believe that Columbus was an initiate, and if he really was, then I do not want to
      be associated with any initiate!

      What WOULD this country today be like if we hadn't committed unimaginable
      terrorism on millions of unsuspecting human beings, if the very ground beneath
      our feet was not still running with psychic blood? What kind of "New World"
      would we have found?? Utopia? Maybe not, but something far better than what we
      live with now.

      Rudolf Steiner was a revolutionary. He was a political revolutionary who put
      together the most radical approach to social order that exists yet on this
      planet. And he placed it on the table in front of Winston Churchill and Woodrow
      Wilson at the Treaty of Versailles. And he stated afterward that the fact that
      it was not adopted as the right solution to the world's conflicts of 1918/
      1919 was proof that mankind was not spiritually, mentally and even physically
      ready for the Threefold Social Order. Then he brought forward Waldorf Education
      as a revolutionary act, a subversive act - it has the express intention of
      making at least a homeopathic element of society ready for the Threefold Social
      Order. To say otherwise is a lie. Many Waldorf schools, teachers and promoters
      are liars and I will say that to their faces. The time for politely hiding the
      truth from the parents and even teachers who come to them and to deny that
      what they are doing may be very dangerous in the future is a real crime.

      Does that mean that Waldorf schools shouldn't exist? Of course not - they
      must exist as long as the powers of this earth decide to allow it (which may not
      be much longer). But the work should be done in the clear light of day.
      Everyone should understand the real WAR that is raging around us as we sit in our
      comfortable houses with food on our tables. By the time we go to stand in line
      for our chips and bar codes that will allow us to keep paying our mortgage and
      buying our groceries, we should be prepared to recognize it as just the
      sense-perceptible result of the supersensible battle going on right now.

      YOU may not believe that you are personally affected yet. But people all
      around you are being rounded up and killed right now in the name of the "holy" the
      "good" the "American way of life." YOU will be next. You will succumb or die,
      one way or another. You can succumb to the truth and die physically, or can
      succumb to the powers of this earth and die spiritually. You have the choice to
      make. It is the ONLY choice that you will have to make in the days to come.

      I apologize for the ranting, but this talk of "little words in "soft voices"
      so that we can all see how lovely each other's religions are makes me sick.
      Dottie, please don't take this personally - YOU don't make me sick - I know that
      you are well intentioned and desiring above all else to work for love and
      make a difference and this is completely valid on a one to one, interpersonal
      basis. But it won't do in the larger arena. "Love" will heal us but it won't
      shield us. We must have Truth also. "Love" didn't keep Christ off the cross - it
      put Him there!

      Understand this. We must see "face to face" and not "as children" as Paul
      said (sorry for the truncation). Humanity is no longer in its infancy, when it
      was expected to follow its leaders unquestioning as a young child does its
      parents, right or wrong. It is no longer in its childhood or teens. We have come
      far along the way toward being able to discover ourselves as individuals. I
      believe that we have reached 21 and we must understand that from here on out we
      will be expected to act out of our Egos and to bear the full weight of
      responsibility for each and every one of our thoughts, words and deeds. We can no more
      take refuge in ignorance or common habit. We can't say "Well, he did it
      first." We will be punished for breaking the spiritual laws just as surely as we
      will be arrested for killing someone while driving drunk. But "God" won't punish
      us - "Allah" won't punish us - "Yaweh" won't punish us - we will punish
      ourselves. We will just find the instant karma come boomeranging back on us and know
      that we were the ones who threw the stick in the first place.

      Wake up sleepers, awake! The time is at hand and we cannot rest in dreams.
      Follow the trail of truth on the internet while it is still there to see. I will
      post links to important sites. We can not stop Ahriman's incarnation - it has
      already happened. But we can look him in the eye just before we die and say
      "I KNOW who you are - you cannot fool me! At least one human being knows who
      you really are." It's not much, but it is on this that the world hangs in the
      balance.

      With love and hope,
      Christine

      To Walk on Water

      I want to learn, in time, to walk on water.
      My faith, constantly being put to the test
      Fails me most often, tossed on the waves
      Of our reasonable and unholy age.

      It is not true that we are never given
      More than our souls can grasp
      Or rise above. We often sink beneath
      The thunderous waves of unforeseen misfortunes.

      The broken masts wash ashore each day
      And wreckage is a common sight along
      These beaches; yet in the silence of grey
      Morning fog, I stalwartly lift my sail again.

      I cannot swim well, and fear the creatures
      Of the deep, unknown and hideous companions
      Who are with me always, even unto the end of time,
      And for whom I am responsible.

      White mountains on a farther shore are calling me.
      The day is clear but windy, cold and rough.
      I'll try again to reach the distant courses
      Where hope and faith fail not in winter's measures.

      For thought I sink and break upon the waters-
      Denied the saving angel's last minute solace;
      Life has not yet overturned for me the truth
      That someday we shall learn to walk on water.

      Christine Natale 2000 all rights reserved

      New World Center

      How deep the grave to hold
      Our world which has grown old
      With countless lives untold

      Earth, cloven to the core
      Reveals the precious ore
      Those gone forevermore

      So fill the grave with tears
      Our hopes, our dreams, our fears
      The memories of lost years

      Let living waters rise
      And fill the void inside
      Renewing hope and pride

      And from the water's deep
      Arising from death's sleep
      All those for whom we weep

      Together we will see
      What we are meant to be
      When all the world is free

      A new world shining bright
      Alive with freedom's might
      True love and wisdom's light

      Christine Natale 2000 all rights reserved
    • dottie zold
      Hi Tarjei, In reading this book by Karen Armstrong I am getting a better feel for Muhammed and what he endeavored to bring to his people. One of the things
      Message 31 of 31 , Nov 14, 2003
        Hi Tarjei,

        In reading this book by Karen Armstrong I am getting a
        better 'feel' for Muhammed and what he endeavored to
        bring to his people.

        One of the things that strikes me is that its path was
        similar to that of Judiasm: in order to get to one God
        they had to take down the 'daughters of God'. That was
        the missing piece for Muhammed on the way to
        monotheism as it was for the Jews.

        Interestingly as well is that what he was working on
        was a change of consciousness from family blood ties
        to spirit ties that outgrow the familial bounds
        similar to Jesus' concepts in a way.

        I find that Muhammed was very much inspired by the
        story of Mary and Jesus. There is a reference to them
        early on that actually insinuates to the exoteric way
        of reading her being a virgin. However when reading it
        from an esoteric level the 'veil' being lifted is
        clearly understood.

        Well, what I am coming to is that Muhammed seems to
        have brought a religion that centered on surrendering
        (islam) ones total self to God. And the way to show
        that was through letting go of worldly goods and
        giving to the poor and taking care of them. But what
        strikes me is this absolute 'feel' I have about the
        self (nafas) getting its house in order. So, in a way
        although it is one religion it seems to be made up of
        singular people on a quest for God. Although they call
        themselves Muslims as one their quest is really each
        one by themselves. It kind of reminds me a wee bit of
        Self Realization Fellowship by Paramahansa Yogananda.
        It has that sense of righting oneself before God.
        Almost like he took the Christ revelation and and then
        became one of the men that achieved a self
        revelation. Almost reminds me of the snake.

        At one point the book speaks of 'exciting' the hatred
        of the Jews. It is pretty apparant that they were
        considered 'trash' among the peoples in that region.
        And it seems they truly never recovered even unto this
        day their own sense of worth. Almost as if they are
        always in the place of having to defend their honor.
        And not really only their own but that of their
        Prophet as well. They know he is not what the Western
        world says and they are always fighting some uphill
        battle in their minds.

        One last thing before I go. I find it extremely
        interesting that the Satanic Versus as related by
        Rushdie actually speak to two lines where Muhammed
        gave credence to the 'daughters of God'. He then tried
        to and actually did take the versus back and claimed
        that they were slaves just as the everyday people
        were, and that one could not look to them for guidance
        or help.

        Well, maybe this is the last piece before I go:) They
        have the most remarkable references to Satan that I
        have ever seen. To them their was no original sin.
        Muhammed believed that this was all a part of Gods
        plan. That in the end Satan will be the last to be
        saved but he will be. Also he states that it is Satan
        who loved God the most. I think of Lucifer here.

        Anyway, the more I read of this Muhammed the more I
        come to understand how he was able to achieve what he
        did in such a short time. He truly had his face on God
        and inspired others to do the same.


        Tarjei you wrote:
        > This point of yours was actually corroborated by
        > Rudolf Steiner when he
        > said that Arabic materialism was blunted by the
        > emergence of Islam. So RS
        > implies that this religion was a progressive force
        > when it was introduced
        > in the 7th century. Apparently, the destructive
        > forces inherent in
        > "Arabism" and connected with 666, Sorath and so on,
        > has hijacked this
        > religious stream because it has outlived its alotted
        > era long ago.

        Tarjei
        > Specific manifestations of egoism. When a young man
        > kills men, women, and
        > children at random by blowing himself to pieces with
        > them in the firm
        > belief that he will be rewarded with 70 virgins in
        > Paradise for such a
        > deed, we're not only talking about merciless egoism,
        > but a specific variety
        > of it, probably exclusively found among Muslims.

        Dottie

        Yeah, this thing with the virgins bothers me a bit. I
        think it is ridiculing them and this is not what
        Muhammed had in mind physically. When I sink into the
        Koran I will see what that means. In the mean time I
        am going to speak to my friend about this.

        I am not so sure it is found exclusively among Muslims
        but I do not know how to make the argument. What comes
        to mind are the 'fundies' of the world. We have people
        here in the states killing doctors who perform
        abortions in recent years. And I believe it will only
        get worse as the right gets more power in regards to
        other segments of society as well. We are about to
        face the 'gay rights to marriage issue' and this is a
        powder keg waiting to go. And they believe they are
        doing what God would want them to do. Its pretty
        gross.
        And I wonder what is the difference regarding the ego
        of having 70 virgins versus doing an evil thing for
        Gods grace?

        Thanks,
        dottie

        p.s. I know I am not the best one to converse on this
        subject however I would like to say it has inspired me
        to become more knowledgable regarding a group of
        people who are going to light the world on fire.

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