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symptomology

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  • wdenval@aol.com
    Dear Bradford, On the heels of my post to SteveoftheDensity, something the wind blew in awhile ago seems applicable now perhaps. Gaelman wrought something
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 28, 2004
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      Dear Bradford,

      On the heels of my post to SteveoftheDensity, something the wind blew in awhile ago seems applicable now perhaps. Gaelman wrought something along the lines of those who could really hurt you, won't and those that would attempt to, can't. This echoes for me now as I consider that those who could make a diagnosis based on the symptomology of our times won't and those who do are incorrect or misleading. And I'm not saying that you've ever asked for a diagnosis but there are those who do ask. And, I would venture to guess that when the symptoms become apparent to enough people that a diagnosis will be provided along with a solution or remedy. And you know what is sometimes said of the remedy being worse than the dis-ease in the first place?-Val
    • holderlin66
      wdenval wrote: that when the symptoms become apparent to enough people that a diagnosis will be provided along with a solution or remedy. And you know what
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 28, 2004
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        wdenval wrote:

        " that when the symptoms become apparent to enough people that a
        diagnosis will be provided along with a solution or remedy. And you
        know what is sometimes said of the remedy being worse than the dis-
        ease in the first place?"-Val

        Val

        There is nothing like armchair quaterbacking and living our lives.
        That is if we are not students of spiritual science. When it appears
        and when it happens and then comes the cure...Ya know Val, you tip
        toe a lot and I appreciate your reasons for that. I do. Now Steiner
        had projected outcomes of WWI and on into the 21st century and guess
        what, he looked into the distant 7th Post Atlantean epoch.. he left
        a trail of clues and studies in symptomology. Now I like to see the
        close at hand symptomology of things so that we can understand the
        dynamics in my soul or in other souls.

        A diagnosis will be provided. Until then you just keep staring
        wondering what will happen next. Ya know, I'm a grandfather and as a
        Father it was only after quite a few years that I let the children
        off the leash of checking symptoms. Oh, yes, things certainly can
        surprise me but I also think a shared field of common sense 101 and
        Anthro common sense, as developed from Spiritual Science is part of
        the 202 junior freshman course studies.

        You tip toe and tap dance very quietly like a cat. A nice cat but I
        still sense the insights and thoughts teeming around your brain. It
        is pretty rich and hangs back a lot. Brevity is good, I seem to have
        flunked that course when I was in training.
      • wdenval@aol.com
        Dear Bradford, I don t know, I thought this bit was pretty brief, pretty tight, pretty definitive, though you were writing to Steve and maybe he just brings
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 28, 2004
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          Dear Bradford,

          I don't know, I thought this bit was pretty brief, pretty tight, pretty definitive, though you were writing to Steve and maybe he just brings that out in people. :)

          "Why? Well inability to compare human greatness and lack of insight
          into world history as fact, and not some stupid fable we were taught
          at school, makes the intellect a spoiled lazy little arrogant
          monster and that is where all these qualities that Val, Huxley and
          Tarjei brought up with where stupidity comes from."

          So there you have it in a nutshell: reality versus fantasy. Except that this fantasy becomes our reality and I do know where this story's going because this particular fantasy has a trajectory that can be followed. I think it's a great thing to recognize that we're all living in a fable verus in reality, hard to do-a tough nut to crack, and so a great acheivement. You know I'm not talking about holding some concept of a dual reality, I'm talking about re-cognizing, as you say, world history as fact. And as I see it, there is only one thing that can possibly divert us from this path we are on, that being changing the hearts and minds of men. But I've come to the conclusion that this can only happen from the inside-out (I hear you knocking-but you can't come in...)-Val
        • Steve Haag
          ... think it s a great thing to recognize that we re all living in a fable verus in reality, hard to do -a tough nut to crack, and so a great acheivement...
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 29, 2004
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            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, wdenval@a... wrote:

            > this particular fantasy has a trajectory that can be followed. I
            think it's a great thing to recognize that we're all living in a
            fable verus in reality, hard to do -a tough nut to crack, and so a
            great acheivement... re-cognizing world history as fact. And as I see
            it, there is only one thing that can possibly divert us from this
            path we are on, that being changing the hearts and minds of
            men...from the inside-out (I hear you knocking-but you can't come
            in...)

            Val,

            Curious if Steiner ever put it in those terms, that we're living
            fables.

            Nice entry, Val.

            :-)

            SteveD
          • holderlin66
            Steve Haag wrote: Curious if Steiner ever put it in those terms, that we re living fables. Nice entry, Val. SteveD Steiner did bring that up along with
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 29, 2004
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              Steve Haag wrote:

              Curious if Steiner ever put it in those terms, that we're living
              fables.

              Nice entry, Val.
              SteveD

              Steiner did bring that up along with Napoleon, and slightly
              elaborated into Convient Fable. How the arrogant monster intellect
              and the astounding terrible education we call materialism in every
              school constantly creates and enables the dysfunction by pounding
              the tales of this fable down everybody's throat.

              Media, University Education, Political Science, why we have had a
              guest on this list once who thought he was an historian and a
              Political Scientist and the raw putrid lies that he spun were
              typical of the watered down, potent, Ahrimanized and Orwellian
              nonsense that comes out of Amerikan media. Education. I hear some
              Pink Floyd rumbling in my bones.
            • wdenval@aol.com
              ... Dear Steveifthat swhoyouaretoday, I don t know but here s what I think-we re living in history right now. You know, as in living in His Story. And you know
              Message 6 of 13 , Dec 29, 2004
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                Curious if Steiner ever put it in those terms, that we're living
                fables.


                Dear Steveifthat'swhoyouaretoday,

                I don't know but here's what I think-we're living in history right now. You know, as in living in His Story. And you know what THEY say, and why can't we recruit some of them for this list I'd like to know, but anyway-what they say about not being able to judge a book by it's cover? Well, I think this particular chapter that we are in is all about Ahriman and I see that one has to be literate enough to read this-one may have to be educated to read but the writing is clear enough. What's not as readily apparent, which may require a greater facility or appreciation of literature, but what is not as clearly apparent to us is who the author is. Thus, we ask questions like what kind of a God would allow this kind of suffering?  And we adore the flylight-whatever  that is-I am still wondering-Val
              • Steve Haag
                ... enables tales B- We do set ourselves into stories in this plastic fantastic world. I sort of think that s the point of it, finding ourselves in stories
                Message 7 of 13 , Dec 30, 2004
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                  --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "holderlin66"
                  <holderlin66@h...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Steiner/Convient Fable. intellect/education/materialism creates and
                  enables tales

                  B-

                  We do set ourselves into stories in this plastic fantastic world. I
                  sort of think that's the point of it, finding ourselves in stories
                  that take us for interesting rides.

                  SteveHaag
                • Steve Haag
                  ... Val, Seems there s a lot of authoring going on. Many pens, many penmen. And each can say they are god or of god. And that is true. I m intrigued by fairy
                  Message 8 of 13 , Dec 30, 2004
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                    --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, wdenval@a... wrote:

                    > one may have to be educated to read but the writing
                    > is clear enough... but what is not as clearly apparent to
                    > us is who the author is.

                    Val,

                    Seems there's a lot of authoring going on. Many pens, many penmen.
                    And each can say they are god or of god. And that is true.

                    I'm intrigued by fairy tales being fashioned for and appreciated by
                    children - these often harrowing stories of light and dark, wonder
                    and scariness. Seems we're built for raging stories, gladly braced to
                    withstand them, even entering fully in.

                    Steve
                  • Griselda Andersen
                    ... Hi LittleStevie, Know what? One of the funny ways my parents found to try to accomodate the increasing differences in their marriage was to divide their
                    Message 9 of 13 , Dec 31, 2004
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                      Steve Haag wrote:

                      > I'm intrigued by fairy tales being fashioned for and
                      > appreciated by
                      > children - these often harrowing stories of light
                      > and dark, wonder
                      > and scariness. Seems we're built for raging stories,
                      > gladly braced to
                      > withstand them, even entering fully in.
                      >


                      Hi LittleStevie,
                      Know what? One of the funny ways my parents found to
                      try to accomodate the increasing differences in their
                      marriage was to "divide" their philosophies as to our
                      upbringing. Basically at some point it went dad/boy,
                      mom/girl. So every evening my dad would go say Our
                      Father with my older brother while my mom would read
                      me a fairy tale. When you're a child some things speak
                      to you naturally, others don't, no matter how much
                      they are forced on you. Fairy tales were naturally
                      compelling to me. It was so easy to get in and stay
                      completely immersed in that universe, even during the
                      day. I even saw a gnome once. Serious!!It was yellow
                      and very tiny, under a plant.
                      Fairy tales to me are also a pretty accurate guide
                      when it comes to navigating life. I totally operate on
                      a fairy tale mode, you know. The underlying truths.
                      Like, help the fish today and tomorrow they'll be back
                      to get that ring that fell into the pond; don't be
                      haughty or mean or you'll end inside a barrel lined
                      with pins rolling down the hill; wishes do come true
                      so be careful or a sausage may get attached to your
                      nose; there is such a thing as good and evil; if you
                      meet a perverse witch/bitch dump her into the oven etc
                      etc etc. Some joy, some pain, some magic, not always a
                      happy ending. See, just like life.
                      Cheers,
                      Griselda



                      >




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                    • Steve Haag
                      Satisfying message, Grisy. Now what became of your brother? SteveD
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jan 1, 2005
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                        Satisfying message, Grisy. Now what became of your brother?

                        SteveD

                        --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Griselda Andersen
                        <hatscaps66@y...> wrote:
                        > Know what? One of the funny ways my parents found to
                        > try to accomodate the increasing differences in their
                        > marriage was to "divide" their philosophies as to our
                        > upbringing. Basically at some point it went dad/boy,
                        > mom/girl. So every evening my dad would go say Our
                        > Father with my older brother while my mom would read
                        > me a fairy tale. When you're a child some things speak
                        > to you naturally, others don't, no matter how much
                        > they are forced on you. Fairy tales were naturally
                        > compelling to me. It was so easy to get in and stay
                        > completely immersed in that universe, even during the
                        > day. I even saw a gnome once. Serious!!It was yellow
                        > and very tiny, under a plant.
                        > Fairy tales to me are also a pretty accurate guide
                        > when it comes to navigating life. I totally operate on
                        > a fairy tale mode, you know. The underlying truths.
                        > Like, help the fish today and tomorrow they'll be back
                        > to get that ring that fell into the pond; don't be
                        > haughty or mean or you'll end inside a barrel lined
                        > with pins rolling down the hill; wishes do come true
                        > so be careful or a sausage may get attached to your
                        > nose; there is such a thing as good and evil; if you
                        > meet a perverse witch/bitch dump her into the oven etc
                        > etc etc. Some joy, some pain, some magic, not always a
                        > happy ending. See, just like life.
                        > Cheers,
                        > Griselda
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                        > Do you Yahoo!?
                        > The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
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                      • Griselda Andersen
                        ... It s funny, Steve, but in the end we turned out pretty much alike as far as the basic stuff is concerned. Cheers, Griselda
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jan 1, 2005
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                          --- Steve Haag < > wrote:

                          >
                          > Satisfying message, Grisy. Now what became of your
                          > brother?
                          >
                          >
                          It's funny, Steve, but in the end we turned out pretty
                          much alike as far as the basic stuff is concerned.
                          Cheers,
                          Griselda



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                        • Steve Haag
                          ... Griselda, So the image I m getting is that you can pour all kinds of stuff over a permeable membrane, but only certain stuff gets through. And you and your
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jan 2, 2005
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                            --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Griselda Andersen
                            <hatscaps66@y...> wrote:
                            >
                            > in the end we turned out pretty
                            > much alike as far as the basic stuff is concerned.

                            Griselda,

                            So the image I'm getting is that you can pour all kinds of stuff over
                            a permeable membrane, but only certain stuff gets through. And you
                            and your brother are similarly permeable?

                            Steve
                          • Griselda Andersen
                            ... Hi Steve, It s true that he was less into books and fairy tales than I was, but it isn t as if he was totally uninterested. As for me, at about 10 yo I
                            Message 13 of 13 , Jan 3, 2005
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                              --- Steve Haag < > wrote:

                              > >
                              > So the image I'm getting is that you can pour all
                              > kinds of stuff over
                              > a permeable membrane, but only certain stuff gets
                              > through. And you
                              > and your brother are similarly permeable?

                              Hi Steve,
                              It's true that he was less into books and fairy tales
                              than I was, but it isn't as if he was totally
                              uninterested. As for me, at about 10 yo I found and
                              glued a copy of St. Francis prayer on the wall by my
                              bed and would read it every night before sleep. So we
                              each in our own way got a little of everything that
                              was going on really. I think.
                              Cheers,
                              Griselda






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