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Re: The President a Liar and Murderer

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  • dottie zold
    Tarjei wrote: Bush doesn t have the brains to lie. He believes everything he s supposed ... obviously, ... Dear Tarjei, It is a lie and he does have a brain to
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 4, 2004
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      Tarjei wrote:
      Bush doesn't have the brains to lie. He believes everything he's
      supposed
      > to believe, just like Ronald Reagan did. So the question is,
      obviously,
      > who's lying to Bush?

      Dear Tarjei,

      It is a lie and he does have a brain to lie just like all other men
      and women do. We can not make excuses for his lies and his
      misinformation. He has a job to do and just like the Scientologists
      who think it is okay to lie to do something you believe is right so
      does Bush. Reagan lied as well. These are not stupid men. They may
      not be intellectuals but indeed they have bought Lucifers lie hook
      line and sinker. Therefore they lie. Unless one wants to blame it on
      Lucifer which would of course be the easy thing to do. It is still
      Bush who has bought this lie from Lucifer and he calls it Gods will.
      Bush lies.

      At this point I do not expect the politicians to tell me the truth
      however i do not think them to be so bold as to lie right to my face
      and smile thinking I have not seen it. Lucifer is becoming
      transparent. I have seen the lie as have many others. And no, this
      does not mean that other politicians have not lied, they have.

      Why not just say the truth that I am out to save the world and God is
      on my side. Are you with me or are you not? I believe he can not and
      dare not say it as then lord Lucifers game would be up unbeknownst to
      him. And Lucifer loves to play games. Lord Lucifer loves to excite
      righteousness and hate in people. He loves for one group to think it
      better than another. He loves disiveness. That is how his energy
      continues through the quickness of misplaced emotions. Let us choose
      not to give into this game and continue to argue for a higher
      understanding led by Lord Michael.

      My thoughts,
      Dottie
    • Tarjei Straume
      ... Lucifer, the god of primeval wisdom, does not lie; that s fundy talk. Ahriman, however, is the liar and father of lies. Tarjei.
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 4, 2004
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        At 20:21 04.01.2004, Dottie wrote:

        >They may not be intellectuals but indeed they have bought Lucifers lie
        >hook line and sinker.

        Lucifer, the god of primeval wisdom, does not lie; that's fundy talk.
        Ahriman, however, is the liar and father of lies.

        Tarjei.
      • dottie zold
        Dottie ... lie ... Tarjei ... talk. ... Dottie There are two aspects to Lucifer that I understand. One above and one below. The one below has begun a lie that
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 4, 2004
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          Dottie
          > >They may not be intellectuals but indeed they have bought Lucifers
          lie
          > >hook line and sinker.

          Tarjei
          > Lucifer, the god of primeval wisdom, does not lie; that's fundy
          talk.
          > Ahriman, however, is the liar and father of lies.

          Dottie

          There are two aspects to Lucifer that I understand. One above and one
          below. The one below has begun a lie that this world is the true
          world and he is the true God. And in that Lucifer lies.

          Nuthin fundy about it.
          Dottie
        • Tarjei Straume
          ... Ahriman is the World Prince: Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. - Joh 12:31 Hereafter I will not talk
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 4, 2004
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            At 20:36 04.01.2004, Dottie wrote:

            >There are two aspects to Lucifer that I understand. One above and one
            >below. The one below has begun a lie that this world is the true world and
            >he is the true God. And in that Lucifer lies.

            Ahriman is the World Prince:

            "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be
            cast out." - Joh 12:31

            "Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world
            cometh, and hath nothing in me." - Joh 14:30

            "Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged." - Joh 16:11

            Ahriman is also the father of lies:

            "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
            He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because
            there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own:
            for he is a liar, and the father of it." - Joh 8:44

            Lucifer is the bringer of wisdom and liberty. His work is fulfilled by Christ.

            >Nuthin fundy about it.

            No, not necessarily, when we take into consideration that Milton also
            blended Ahriman and Lucifer into one in "Paradise Lost", and that even
            Goethe blended them in Faust's Mephistopheles, who, although basically
            Ahriman, became a sort of Lucifer-Ahriman. But the fundies are the
            forerunners of insisting upon this blend, declaring everything else to be
            heresy and devil-worship. You should see the fire-and-brimstone angry mails
            I have received from fundies because of my article "Children of Lucifer"
            http://www.uncletaz.com/childlucifer.html


            Tarjei
            http://uncletaz.com/
          • dottie zold
            ... by Christ. Dear Tarjei, Where is Sophia in all of this in your mind? I can t see how it is said that Lucifer is the bringer of wisdom and liberty here in
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 4, 2004
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              Tarjei wrote:
              > Lucifer is the bringer of wisdom and liberty. His work is fulfilled
              by Christ.


              Dear Tarjei,

              Where is Sophia in all of this in your mind? I can't see how it is
              said that Lucifer is the bringer of wisdom and liberty here in the
              physical realm. Don't we bring it unto ourselves through our work
              which is affected by that which we encounter of Lucifer and Christ in
              the physical realm?

              I have absolutely no feeling for this Ahriman. Can you point me to
              where he rises in the Bible according to Steiner? Also I am wondering
              where it is differentiated by Lucifer as well if you know off hand?

              I am wondering of your quotes if Ahriman is noted as such because it
              is said 'he is coming' and that Lucifer is already here.

              And I know this is strange to say but can it be that Ahriman is the
              fallen Lucifer that exists in our physical world. Pardon my ignorance.

              Good Day,
              Dottie
            • Tarjei Straume
              ... Sophia is the purified soul, the Virgin Soul bestowed by Christ through the Holy Spirit. Lucifer Redeemed has something to do with the Holy Spirit too,
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 4, 2004
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                At 02:50 05.01.2004, Dottie wrote:

                >Tarjei wrote:
                > > Lucifer is the bringer of wisdom and liberty. His work is fulfilled
                >by Christ.
                >
                >
                >Dear Tarjei,
                >
                >Where is Sophia in all of this in your mind?

                Sophia is the purified soul, the Virgin Soul bestowed by Christ through the
                Holy Spirit. Lucifer Redeemed has something to do with the Holy Spirit too,
                coming up in the next post.

                >I can't see how it is said that Lucifer is the bringer of wisdom and
                >liberty here in the physical realm.

                The physical realm is the result of the Fall, which was Lucifer's original
                Deed.

                >Don't we bring it unto ourselves through our work which is affected by
                >that which we encounter of Lucifer and Christ in the physical realm?

                Sounds about right to me.

                >I have absolutely no feeling for this Ahriman.

                Ahriman doesn't want you to feel him, Dottie. That's what makes him so
                subtle and elusive.

                >Can you point me to where he rises in the Bible according to Steiner?

                That's best described in "Occult Science". In the New Testament, Ahriman
                (or Satan) is spoken of as the Prince of the World. And there are some very
                interesting reference to Ahriman in the Old Testament. Here is one:

                "And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the
                LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him." - Zec 3:1

                According to Steiner, the power of Ahriman is felt from the right, Lucifer
                from the left. And the name "Satan" leaves no doubt about who is being
                talked about here.

                >Also I am wondering where it is differentiated by Lucifer as well if you
                >know off hand?

                I don't understand your question.

                >I am wondering of your quotes if Ahriman is noted as such because it is
                >said 'he is coming' and that Lucifer is already here.

                You're referring to Joh 14:30 where Christ says: "Hereafter I will not talk
                much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in
                me." Yes, that's a fascinating NT quote that corroborates very strongly,
                the way I see it, Steiner's description of spiritual evolution and the role
                of cosmice Beings like Ahriman. As you probably know, Ahriman's power came
                into play for real in the 14th, 15th, and 16th centuries as the universe
                changed from Ptolemy to Galileo. Shakespeare describes this wonderfully in
                some of his tragedies, especially in King Lear, where the world of the Earl
                of Gloucester, who tries to arrange his life astrologically according to
                the stars, while his bastard son Edmund, whose philosopophy reads "Gods,
                stand up for bastards!" has the following to say about his father's
                old-fashioned astrological world-view: "I am rough and lecherous. - Fut, I
                should have been that I am, had the maidenliest star in the firmament
                twinkled on my bastardizing."

                Further down the road, Ahriman makes his power felt for full music in the
                1840's and onwards, during the scientific Enlightenment. The economists
                have long ago taken over political leadership, pushing aside the monarchs
                and the clergy, and the men of finance are calling the shots. Ahriman is in
                the driver seat; he is the World Priince.

                That, i think, is what Christ meant when he said that He Himself was
                leaving, but Ahriman was on his way. The path of Ahriman into the driver
                seat as world prince had to be intercepted by the Golgotha Mystery before
                Ahriman's plan was accomplished. Humanity needed time to absorb some of the
                Christ Impulse before Ahriman's hour arrived. The greatest challenge is yet
                to come, because Ahriman will incarnate physically during the third
                millennium; probably during the first third of this millennium, and most
                likely on the Western hemisphere.

                >And I know this is strange to say but can it be that Ahriman is the fallen
                >Lucifer that exists in our physical world. Pardon my ignorance.

                Ahriman is Lucifer's karma. Ahriman came into the world as a result of
                Lucifer's Deed. Check this out:

                "The higher hierarchies contain in their being the forces that have formed
                Saturn, the Sun, the Moon and finally the Earth. If the higher hierarchies
                had expressed their teachings amongst themselves, as it were, up to the
                Mystery of Golgotha, they would have said: We can form the Earth out of
                Saturn, Sun and Moon. But if the Earth were to contain only what we have
                placed into Saturn, Sun and Moon it would never have been able to develop
                beings who know something about death, and can therefore develop the
                intellect within them. We, the higher hierarchies, are able to let an Earth
                proceed out of the Moon, on which there are men who know nothing of death,
                and on which they cannot develop the intellect. It is not possible for us,
                higher hierarchies, to form the Earth in such a way that it is able to
                supply the forces which lead man towards the intellect. We must rely, for
                this, on an entirely different being, on a being who comes from another
                direction than our own - The Ahrimanic Being. Ahriman is a being who does
                not belong to our hierarchy. Ahriman comes into the stream of evolution
                from another direction. If we tolerate Ahriman in the evolution of the
                Earth, if we allow him a share in it, he brings us death, and with it, the
                intellect, and we can take up in the human being death and intellect.
                Ahriman knows death, because he is at one with the Earth and has trodden
                paths which have brought him into connection with the evolution of the
                Earth. He is an initiate, a sage of death, and for this reason he is the
                ruler of the intellect. The gods had to reckon with Ahriman - if I may
                express it in this way. They had to say: the evolution cannot proceed
                without Ahriman. It is only a question of admitting Ahriman into the
                evolution. But if Ahriman is admitted and becomes the lord of death and,
                consequently, of the intellect too, we forfeit the Earth, and Ahriman,
                whose sole interest lies in permeating the Earth with intellect, will claim
                the Earth for himself. The gods faced the great problem of losing to a
                certain extent their rule over the Earth in favour of Ahriman. There was
                only one possibility - that the gods themselves should learn to know
                something which they could not learn in their godly abodes which were not
                permeated by Ahriman - namely, that the gods should learn to know death
                itself, on the Earth, through one of their emissaries - the Christ. A god
                had to die on earth, and he had to die in such a way that this was not
                grounded in the wisdom of the gods, but in the human error which would hold
                sway if Ahriman alone were to rule. A god had to pass through death and he
                had to overcome death."

                - "Exoteric and Esoteric Christianity" Dornach, 2 April, 1922. (GA 211) -
                http://www.uncletaz.com/exoeso.html

                Cheers,



                Tarjei
                http://uncletaz.com/
              • Tarjei Straume
                ... I m sorry about that awful, awful sentence with dangling pieces that don t fit together. It s some of the worst I ve ever written, I think. Tarjei
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 4, 2004
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                  I wrote:

                  >Shakespeare describes this wonderfully in some of his tragedies,
                  >especially in King Lear, where the world of the Earl of Gloucester, who
                  >tries to arrange his life astrologically according to the stars, while his
                  >bastard son Edmund, whose philosopophy reads "Gods, stand up for
                  >bastards!" has the following to say about his father's old-fashioned
                  >astrological world-view:

                  I'm sorry about that awful, awful sentence with dangling pieces that don't
                  fit together. It's some of the worst I've ever written, I think.

                  Tarjei
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