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49982Re: Worldviews

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  • ted.wrinch
    Apr 4, 2012
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      It's quite remarkable what a flurry of activity my sentence has generated in the kiosk. All the old favourites from WC, plus a few WC-like regulars of the kiosk, have now piled in, expressing their usual sense of moral superiority over the 'cult-like', 'labelling' and 'spiteful' anthros. But even some of the ostensibly more balanced members, such as Ulf, have joined the fray. Ulf's apparently still upset from the cross group exchange several weeks ago, where I analysed his response to the 'war of all against all' confused non-discussion they had on WC:

      "I hadn't been posting for more than a few weeks on the waldorf critics list before someone on AT suggested that I lived in fear of being attacked by murderous hordes of Waldorf teachers in the apocalyptic War of All Against All".

      He seems to have forgotten that this 'suggestion' was merely a paraphrase of his own contribution to the discussion:

      "Let me try another angle. Do you think that the apocalyptic Cosmic War
      dimensions could be actually strengthened? After years and years living
      with one truth and one language for outsiders and another one for use
      inside the Fortress of Deception.

      …

      I can also see the Waldorf schools here becoming more and more out of
      touch with the development outside the anthro world. And the trend (at
      least in europe) of monitoring more of the performance of schools might
      sooner or later catch up with them. Which could be construed as some
      kind of persecution. Such developments would push them further inte a
      change-resistant sect, making a view of themselves as warriors in the
      Final Battle of Ragnarök even more meaningful."

      WC message 23112.

      No one here 'suggested' anything about him or did any 'labeling, categorizing and diagnosing', beyond drawing the conclusion of his own words, that he for some reason was reluctant to do. If he's unhappy with the response here perhaps he should think a little about what he says before he posts.

      And it's quite remarkable that he listens to advice from Diana:

      "I am also happy that Diana advocates caution in "counter-diagnosing" the anthro-critic-critics. It is way too easy to join them in a rapidly deteriorating and degrading (and stupidly indirect) exchange."

      It's not likely that Ulf would care, but Diana is one of the the greatest creators of the 'deteriorating and degrading (and stupidly indirect) exchange' he bemoans, not least by her near incapacity to have any exchange with people she disagrees with without insulting them.

      Just more examples of what passes for 'critical thinking' in the group of people labelling themselves 'critics'. What a joke!


      T.

      Ted Wrinch

      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch" <ted.wrinch@...> wrote:
      >
      > Gosh, someone called 'Falk', apparently an anthro, had now joined in:
      >
      > "I wonder what it is in Ted Wrinch's soul that makes him feel the need to demean someone else rather than meeting her observations and arguments in an open and honest way with relevant one's of his own."
      >
      > This after accusing me of not using 'Right Speech', Buddhist style. Grief, Falk - try reading what I actually posted, rather than just responding to Alicia's put down! There's little point in claiming to be trying to follow a Buddhist path of righteousness if you can't even investigate the situation. Right Mindfulness is also part of the eight-fold path and by accusing people of things with inadequate evidence you are not following the path. And what you post above -calling a person you know nothing about 'dishonest' - is a long, long way from 'Right Speech'.
      >
      > T.
      >
      > Ted Wrinch
      >
      > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch" <ted.wrinch@> wrote:
      > >
      > > From the same section (2010); this is quite sad:
      > >
      > > "i forgot to take my sleeping meds last night. I didn't know it, until I thought I was going to sleep. Putting out the lights, I realized right away there were nervous butterflies in my every breath, tension in my every muscle and every limb, that my toes and fingers twitching, my eyes opening and closing, that there was an iron band around my chest, choking me. So of course, I knew; immediately I knew. Usually, with the medicine, I feel sleepy, and then I fall asleep. Without it, it just won't happen, it hardly ever has. Maybe I'll fall asleep, through great effort after tossing and turning and feeling as though I've entered the twilight zone where sanity turns into madnes, into mania; finally giving up, perhaps. Not that I don't want to sleep. But it's like there is this thing — this being — inside me, this demon which will dictate every move and every sensation; I can't drift off to sleep because every single moment this demon is working hard at keeping me wide awake. It is the master of me — the master of my consciousness and of my wakefulness — I am the slave. It is the tyrant of the dark hours. I am so entirely in its grips. So I take my pill, except on rare occasions when I forget. I've learnt not to forget; I can't postpone taking it, since this wrecks my strained attempts at maintaining somewhat reasonable and normal waking and sleeping hours. Now I have too many words in my head, and I can't be still. It's not that I've been sleeping late in the morning, or taking naps — on the contrary. Yesterday I awoke early, earlier than usual even. We were outdoors on a walk during the day, and also one half-hour walk in the evening. We were fairly active. Still, it makes no difference. It has never made any difference."
      > >
      > > With a comment:
      > >
      > > "If being agitated is conducive to sleep, then I'd try curative eurythmy… (I could chew a whole box of camomile tea leafs and not fall asleep. Thank dog for conventional medicine, though!)"
      > >
      > > Insomnia is horrible - I had it for three years in my mid 20s. Conventional medicine was useless - it made me feel so drugged in the morning that I used to nearly fall down the stairs, and it took me until the afternoon before I properly woke up. Which really wasn't a helpful state of mind to be in for someone that works as a software engineer and is paid to be clear headed enough to think through ideas and put them into software to run on a computer. After three years of this, getting more and more desperate, I discovered the Dutch alternative medical practitioner Jan De Vries in Troon, Ayreshire. He gave me acupuncture - not sure if that helped -and German herbal sleeping pills and voila, I could sleep again! This was life transforming and I remember having one of those powerful symbolic dreams shortly after that that said that my life would be ok. A short time later I came across the Edinburgh Steiner library :).
      > >
      > > T.
      > >
      > > Ted Wrinch
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch" <ted.wrinch@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Google has pulled out a 'most significant' section from her blog that I hadn't looked at before, She posted this on 'the sect':
      > > >
      > > > "Our problem is that it's impossible to discuss with someone who uses unfair means or with someone whose sole aim is to have you silenced. You can't really ignore these things either. To preserve your own voice you need to fight back. That's the unfortunate stage we're at. It is impossible to deal with people who aren't capable of disagreement and of being reasonable about disagreement. People who can't apply any common sense, or any decency, when meeting with dissent."
      > > >
      > > > She talks of 'being reasonable about disagreement' and 'apply[ing] any common sense, or any decency, when meeting with dissent', and then fails to do it herself. Typical.
      > > >
      > > > T.
      > > >
      > > > Ted Wrinch
      > > >
      > > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch" <ted.wrinch@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > She, in usual critics fashion, concludes that my 'reading comprehension isn't the best in the world'. And then says 'He indeed did make it all up'. Well, no - I said I read it. She seems to be particularly stuck on the word 'current'; well, I had no idea whether it was actually 'current', but I read that there *had* been health issues and had not seen anything subsequent on the topic and threw that word in without a great deal of thought. As she ought to recall, especially since she's claiming that her reading comprehension is better than mine, that word is one word in a sub-clause of a minor sentence in my post. If she's upset about the insignificant word 'current' I really can't be arsed to care.
      > > > >
      > > > > She also calls us 'stupid'. If you add up the the insults in the last few days - crap spouting morons', 'sick', 'vile' and etc - it's quite a lot she's come up with. And no one here has called her anything; neither did I in discussions on WC when she was there. In general, it's pretty amazing how 'critics' appear unable to criticise a topic without insulting the proponents. And yet she still finishes on her blog with the hypocritical:
      > > > >
      > > > > "So, is this how anthroposophists `argue' among themselves? Is it all about people — and their supposed spiritual health or defective souls — rather than about topics?"
      > > > >
      > > > > What a nice, sane and pleasant person! I suggest she keeps taking the meds.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > T.
      > > > >
      > > > > Ted Wrinch
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch" <ted.wrinch@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Alicia seems unhappy that I mentioned her 'current health issues' in that posting and thinks that I've invented the topic to 'pathologise' her and to suggest she's 'not quite well in the head'. She continues analysing this small, unimportant, sub-part of one sentence of my positing for four paragraphs on her blog. Amazing. I got the idea from her - from one of the many years of complaints, retailed over WC and her own Wordpress blog, of the various ways she has said Waldorf has damaged her life. Amongst these - probably hundreds now - of complaints, I remember from a few years ago her mentioning that her health had suffered in some way; I don't know what way - she didn't say - and that is all I remember and was all I was responding too in that sentence. The main part of the sentence was, in any event, primarily an observation of how damaging she has said Steiner thought, in the form of Waldorf, has been to her life.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Alicia continues to call us 'crap-spouting morons' and says we are 'cluttering cyberspace', and so completes her blog entry, entirely missing the point of my posting. Missing the point, and being instead caught up in your own opinions and viewpoints, is typical of what passes for 'critical thinking' on WC, and, it seems, in some parts of the 'Ethereal Kiosk'. But don't worry, Alicia: though you're not as 'moronic' as WC, I've never personally found anything you post in the 'kiosk' of any interest and don't plan on 'cluttering cyberspace' in it for you.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Later, in the comments, she suggest that we should:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > "perhaps do some thinking about which punishments might be coming their way in terms of diseases."
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Wow, again. They just don't realise how nasty they are.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > She continues:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > "One has to assume that the clientele at the anthroposophy tomorrow list (incl Sune who has posted there in the past) is a 100% psychologically sound, or we might have to infer `current health issues'. Oops."
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Hm - she makes the association between my expression 'current health issues' and her own of being 'not quite well in the head' or '100% psychologically sound', and then blames us for it! Wow. These people have no idea of what 'critical thinking' is, or even how to read a few sentences without projecting their own prejudices onto them.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > She says more:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > "I've taken more than sleeping pills; I used to be quite messed up. To get these meds, whatever they are, you go to a psychiatrist. That's how things happen, it's self evident. There's nothing particularly odd about it. Perhaps one sore point, for waldorf defenders, is that waldorf education doesn't prevent a kid from being messed up — quite the contrary. Sometimes it messes the kid up even more."
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Well, though I haven't said it, this seems to be implying:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > 1) She's has had serious mental health issues, bad enough to be prescribed something 'more than sleeping pills' - does she mean lithium, for bi-polar disorder? Who knows, but it don't sound good.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > 2) She links this experience to her Waldorf schooling - 'waldorf education doesn't prevent a kid from being messed up — quite the contrary'.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > So, after rebutting my health suggestion, she appears now to be confirming it, Oh, well - I don't really care either way and it wasn't in anyway important to the point of my posting. As she says, her health is entirely up to her (except that if she posts public messages on the subject I do think it's reasonable to assume that people may read them).
      > > > > >
      > > > > > http://zooey.wordpress.com/2012/04/03/current-health-issues/
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > T.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Ted Wrinch
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch" <ted.wrinch@> wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Alicia had a strong allergic reaction to her peek over here and the experience appears to be still reverberating in her being:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > "I'm so fed up with crap-spouting assholes, of which there are plenty
      > > > > > > in the world, that I'm getting cranky. Sorry... I shall resume to
      > > > > > > ignore them entirely."
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > But one wonders what could have caused such a vehement reaction. Fear! She's set up her Wordpress weblog, 'the ethereal kiosk', to allow her to write about her interest in Rudolf Steiner and to encourage others to discuss and chat and laugh about the same. And this has worked very well and she gets a wide range of people that drop by, albeit more in the category of sceptics and (mild) critics - a completely different constituency from WC! The posts cover a wide range of topics, from biodynamcis, to Waldorf, to Goethean science, but the one thing that they have in common is that they, mostly, take none of it seriously. She has a surprising fascination for a subject that, by her account, was a big part of the cause of a deeply unhappy childhood and, it seems, possibly a cause of current health issues. Why would someone in this context have such a fascination? The subject's obviously interesting to her, but why? It's not real to her, but nevertheless draws here to it and keeps her there - for the four years I've been aware of her presence on WC, and I assume for much longer before that. It's a puzzle isn't it? I think that at some deep, semi-conscious level of being she actually finds value and truth in it. At the level of her everyday, conscious self she denies this and says its 'unscientific' and 'irrational', but yet she persists….I think that it's this conflict between the depths and the surface that is what prompted the strength of the outburst above; its a reaction to the fact that people here don't just play with Steiner concepts but take them seriously, as part of a worldview.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > T.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Ted Wrinch
      > > > > > >
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      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
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