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49333Re: Wilson (was: Austria-Hungary)

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  • ted.wrinch
    Feb 1, 2012
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      That's an interesting link, Tarjei - thanks.

      "And the world never learns, apparently -- it wants to be deceived."

      I'm afraid so. Thinking realistically is hard, lonely work.


      Ted Wrinch

      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@...> wrote:
      > "Think for a moment upon the problem, 'How much would Woodrow Wilson's
      > brain be worth if this brain were not sitting in the Presidential chair
      > of the United States?' "
      > ( -- Rudolf Steiner: The Reappearance of Christ in the Etheric, XII:
      > Individual Spirit Beings and the Undivided Foundation of the World: Part
      > 3 <http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/ReapChrist/19171125p01.html> ,
      > Dornach 25th November, 1917, GA 178)
      > The development of Europe with all its new nation-states and all that
      > developed into the opposite of what Wilson had expected or hoped for, a
      > veritable nightmare. The reason is that Wilson's proposals were totally
      > unrealistic. And that reminds me: On June 15, 2010, Johan Galtung was
      > asked by Amy Goodman on Democracy Now
      > <http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/15/i_love_the_us_republic_and>
      > what he thought about Obama's remarks about Afghanistan, and he said
      > "totally unrealistic".
      > PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Now, the people of Afghanistan have endured
      > violence for decades. They have been confronted with occupation by the
      > Soviet Union and then by foreign al-Qaeda fighters who used Afghan land
      > for their own purposes. So tonight, I want the Afghan people to
      > understand: America seeks an end to this era of war and suffering. We
      > have no interest in occupying your country. We will support efforts by
      > the Afghan government to open the door to those Taliban who abandon
      > violence and respect the human rights of their fellow citizens. And we
      > will seek a partnership with Afghanistan grounded in mutual respect, to
      > isolate those who destroy, to strengthen those who build, to hasten the
      > day when our troops will leave, and to forge a lasting friendship in
      > which America is your partner and never your patron.
      > AMY GOODMAN: That was President Obama. Your response?
      > JOHAN GALTUNG: Totally unrealistic and extremely badly informed, and
      > that from such an intelligent, such a charming man with such a brilliant
      > rhetoric.
      > Those exact words by Galtung about Obama in 2010 could have been said
      > about Woodrow Wilson in 1918: Totally unrealistic and extremely badly
      > informed! The most tragic thing about Wilson -- apart from getting the
      > (totally debased) Nobel Peace Prize in 1919 after being hailed in Paris
      > like Jesus riding into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday (just like Obama, who
      > found it necessary to inform his supporters before inauguration that he
      > wasn't born in a manger) -- the worst thing is that all of Wilson's
      > successors have been looking up to him like a role model to be emulated.
      > And listening to Obama is like hearing the echo of Wilson -- pretty
      > ox-poo rhetoric. And the world never learns, apparently -- it wants to
      > be deceived.
      > Tarjei
      > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith"
      > <fts.trasla@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch"
      > ted.wrinch@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > > On the subject of Der Staudi's distorting mirror world, I've been
      > looking into a little more detail at the later half of the C18 history
      > of the Austria-Hungary 'empire'/'state'…? It's hard to find the
      > right name for it as it was such a patch-work of languages (11
      > recognised), peoples and ethnicities, sometimes described as
      > 'ramshackle' or 'decaying' in English circles. Wiki has this to say on
      > the nationalities issue:
      > > --------
      > > http://southerncrossreview.org/Ebooks/ebbasicissues2.htm
      > >
      > > Note 15: Page 139 President Wilson's 'fourteen points' constituted the
      > ideological basis for the principle of 'self-determination of peoples',
      > which was to underlie the political restructuring of Europe after the
      > war. This principle presupposes that ethnic groups (peoples, nations)
      > are perfectly separable and definable, like so many individual pieces of
      > a jigsaw puzzle. If each governs itself through its own national state,
      > then the cause of political morality is served. In fact, Europe was and
      > is a quilt of nations with many overlapping ethnic 'grey' regions. The
      > effect of self-determination or the 'nationalities principle' is the
      > disenfranchisement of many smaller or larger minorities with the
      > resultant bitterness and frustration. The course of history since this
      > principle was put into effect in Europe and elsewhere would seem to
      > support such criticism. Winston Churchill wrote the following about the
      > carving up of the Austro-Hungarian empire: 'The second cardinal tragedy
      > was the complete break-up of the Austro-Hungarian Empire...There is not
      > one of these peoples or provinces that constituted the Empire of the
      > Hapsburgs to whom gaining their independence has not brought the
      > tortures which ancient poets and theologians had reserved for the
      > damned.' The Second World War, Vol. 1, Chap. i, The Gathering Storm.
      > According to the idea of the 'social triformation', or 'threefold
      > society', the nationalities (ethnic) problem can only be solved by
      > liberating 'national' life from the power of the political state. In
      > other words, the creation of a free cultural-spiritual sector.
      > >
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