49333Re: Wilson (was: Austria-Hungary)
- Feb 1, 2012That's an interesting link, Tarjei - thanks.
"And the world never learns, apparently -- it wants to be deceived."
I'm afraid so. Thinking realistically is hard, lonely work.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "elfuncle" <elfuncle@...> wrote:
> "Think for a moment upon the problem, 'How much would Woodrow Wilson's
> brain be worth if this brain were not sitting in the Presidential chair
> of the United States?' "
> ( -- Rudolf Steiner: The Reappearance of Christ in the Etheric, XII:
> Individual Spirit Beings and the Undivided Foundation of the World: Part
> 3 <http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/ReapChrist/19171125p01.html> ,
> Dornach 25th November, 1917, GA 178)
> The development of Europe with all its new nation-states and all that
> developed into the opposite of what Wilson had expected or hoped for, a
> veritable nightmare. The reason is that Wilson's proposals were totally
> unrealistic. And that reminds me: On June 15, 2010, Johan Galtung was
> asked by Amy Goodman on Democracy Now
> what he thought about Obama's remarks about Afghanistan, and he said
> "totally unrealistic".
> PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Now, the people of Afghanistan have endured
> violence for decades. They have been confronted with occupation by the
> Soviet Union and then by foreign al-Qaeda fighters who used Afghan land
> for their own purposes. So tonight, I want the Afghan people to
> understand: America seeks an end to this era of war and suffering. We
> have no interest in occupying your country. We will support efforts by
> the Afghan government to open the door to those Taliban who abandon
> violence and respect the human rights of their fellow citizens. And we
> will seek a partnership with Afghanistan grounded in mutual respect, to
> isolate those who destroy, to strengthen those who build, to hasten the
> day when our troops will leave, and to forge a lasting friendship in
> which America is your partner and never your patron.
> AMY GOODMAN: That was President Obama. Your response?
> JOHAN GALTUNG: Totally unrealistic and extremely badly informed, and
> that from such an intelligent, such a charming man with such a brilliant
> Those exact words by Galtung about Obama in 2010 could have been said
> about Woodrow Wilson in 1918: Totally unrealistic and extremely badly
> informed! The most tragic thing about Wilson -- apart from getting the
> (totally debased) Nobel Peace Prize in 1919 after being hailed in Paris
> like Jesus riding into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday (just like Obama, who
> found it necessary to inform his supporters before inauguration that he
> wasn't born in a manger) -- the worst thing is that all of Wilson's
> successors have been looking up to him like a role model to be emulated.
> And listening to Obama is like hearing the echo of Wilson -- pretty
> ox-poo rhetoric. And the world never learns, apparently -- it wants to
> be deceived.
> --- In email@example.com, "Frank Thomas Smith"
> <fts.trasla@> wrote:
> > --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "ted.wrinch"
> ted.wrinch@ wrote:
> > >
> > > On the subject of Der Staudi's distorting mirror world, I've been
> looking into a little more detail at the later half of the C18 history
> of the Austria-Hungary 'empire'/'state' ? It's hard to find the
> right name for it as it was such a patch-work of languages (11
> recognised), peoples and ethnicities, sometimes described as
> 'ramshackle' or 'decaying' in English circles. Wiki has this to say on
> the nationalities issue:
> > --------
> > http://southerncrossreview.org/Ebooks/ebbasicissues2.htm
> > Note 15: Page 139 President Wilson's 'fourteen points' constituted the
> ideological basis for the principle of 'self-determination of peoples',
> which was to underlie the political restructuring of Europe after the
> war. This principle presupposes that ethnic groups (peoples, nations)
> are perfectly separable and definable, like so many individual pieces of
> a jigsaw puzzle. If each governs itself through its own national state,
> then the cause of political morality is served. In fact, Europe was and
> is a quilt of nations with many overlapping ethnic 'grey' regions. The
> effect of self-determination or the 'nationalities principle' is the
> disenfranchisement of many smaller or larger minorities with the
> resultant bitterness and frustration. The course of history since this
> principle was put into effect in Europe and elsewhere would seem to
> support such criticism. Winston Churchill wrote the following about the
> carving up of the Austro-Hungarian empire: 'The second cardinal tragedy
> was the complete break-up of the Austro-Hungarian Empire...There is not
> one of these peoples or provinces that constituted the Empire of the
> Hapsburgs to whom gaining their independence has not brought the
> tortures which ancient poets and theologians had reserved for the
> damned.' The Second World War, Vol. 1, Chap. i, The Gathering Storm.
> According to the idea of the 'social triformation', or 'threefold
> society', the nationalities (ethnic) problem can only be solved by
> liberating 'national' life from the power of the political state. In
> other words, the creation of a free cultural-spiritual sector.
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