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49329Re: Austria-Hungary

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  • ted.wrinch
    Feb 1, 2012
      "The course of history since this principle was put into effect in Europe and elsewhere would seem to support such criticism."

      "There is not one of these peoples or provinces that constituted the Empire of the Hapsburgs to whom gaining their independence has not brought the tortures which ancient poets and theologians had reserved for the damned."

      Yes, you and Churchill are right. WW1 was the end of a European era. My mother who lived through WW2 still describes WW1 as the more traumatic. Nothing was the same and we are still living through the consequences of the bad decisions that were made across Europe in those times.

      T.

      Ted Wrinch

      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "Frank Thomas Smith" <fts.trasla@...> wrote:
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      > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, "ted.wrinch" <ted.wrinch@> wrote:
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      > > On the subject of Der Staudi's distorting mirror world, I've been looking into a little more detail at the later half of the C18 history of the Austria-Hungary 'empire'/'state'…? It's hard to find the right name for it as it was such a patch-work of languages (11 recognised), peoples and ethnicities, sometimes described as 'ramshackle' or 'decaying' in English circles. Wiki has this to say on the nationalities issue:
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      > http://southerncrossreview.org/Ebooks/ebbasicissues2.htm
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      > Note 15: Page 139 President Wilson's 'fourteen points' constituted the ideological basis for the principle of 'self-determination of peoples', which was to underlie the political restructuring of Europe after the war. This principle presupposes that ethnic groups (peoples, nations) are perfectly separable and definable, like so many individual pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. If each governs itself through its own national state, then the cause of political morality is served. In fact, Europe was and is a quilt of nations with many overlapping ethnic 'grey' regions. The effect of self-determination or the 'nationalities principle' is the disenfranchisement of many smaller or larger minorities with the resultant bitterness and frustration. The course of history since this principle was put into effect in Europe and elsewhere would seem to support such criticism. Winston Churchill wrote the following about the carving up of the Austro-Hungarian empire: 'The second cardinal tragedy was the complete break-up of the Austro-Hungarian Empire...There is not one of these peoples or provinces that constituted the Empire of the Hapsburgs to whom gaining their independence has not brought the tortures which ancient poets and theologians had reserved for the damned.' The Second World War, Vol. 1, Chap. i, The Gathering Storm. According to the idea of the 'social triformation', or 'threefold society', the nationalities (ethnic) problem can only be solved by liberating 'national' life from the power of the political state. In other words, the creation of a free cultural-spiritual sector.
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