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46260Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Peter Staudenmaier Goes Into Orbit

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  • Charlotte Cowell
    Mar 8, 2011
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      Oh, I see, thank you for explaining. It sounds as if there is a bit of a vendetta going on and I can imagine you find that upsetting, especially if you find that what's being said is dishonest, or has a deceitful spin. Iwondered at first if the prof was a devout Jew, which would have made sense, I can understand that there are simply differences of opinion across cultures/faiths and that the human race is still trying to work through those and to comprehend the views of the 'other side'. And the events around the world wars undoubtedly released a huge amount of black magical force into the world that we're still trying to set to rights....

      However, if he is indeed atheist as you say, I'm not exactly sure what the motive would be - I mean, why would he care about points of doctrine unless he has a deep faith? Or maybe he is confusing Theosophy/Thule and the foundation of Nazi ideology with the later anthroposophical movement? In any case I guess having an opponent of this kind can serve the function of raising up certain questions and giving one the chance to reinforce one's own belief in the process, maybe he needs an intellectual spar, it strikes  me that his obsessive quest masks questions that are hidden even to himself and he may be trying to get to them - his racial soul must have a profound effect, it does with all of us, and the Judaic one is particularly strong.

      I didn't realise that is what you meant about Mani and I replied as I did because I am uncertain about the doctrine that he was the Paraclete, it's something I simply don't know, although I understand the concept. Now you've said what you meant, I must admit I do have some sympathy for that view (the potential for redeeming 'evil'), but only to a point - I do think the Luciferic element can be redeemed, but not the Ahrimanic, as I think anthroposophists term that part - I see that more as the dark matter, the charcoal as it were that is left behind after the sacred fire has burned.

      As for Hibernia, actually my father's side (the pagans!) are from the Isle of Man, which is a small island between the West coast of the UK and Ireland. As with many of the small islands around the UK it was a once a centre for druidic worship and naturally I take an interest in the ancient mysteries. (of all cultures, not just this one, I studied ancient Greek history and have looked into the Sumerian and Egyptian systems as well). My mother's family I don't know much about as she was adopted, however, we know she came from the West country and her name suggests Jewish background, but it's really an unknown quantity. I tend to see her as Faerie Queen-ish, as one often does with one's mother!

      Cx

      --- On Tue, 8/3/11, ted.wrinch <ted.wrinch@...> wrote:

      From: ted.wrinch <ted.wrinch@...>
      Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Peter Staudenmaier Goes Into Orbit
      To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, 8 March, 2011, 8:31

       

      he 'Hole' and the 'Abyss' and the 'Toilet' are all designations for the Waldorf Critics forum. The terms are part of a bigger, humorous mythology that Tarjei Straume invented that more fully expresses the nature of the place than its name. The prof is a 'scholar of the esoteric', based at Montana, who has spent over a decade engaging in what he calls 'criticism', 'rational debate' and 'public discussion', targeted at attacking Rudolph Steiner and the anthroposophical movement. He is both very clever and very dishonest, claiming to be an atheist that 'takes the spirit in history' seriously - he doesn't. I fully appreciate your disinclination to engage in polemics and group in-fighting and I'd certainly have to say that much of the fighting I've engaged in with the prof has been little above the mindless level, often due to the need to try to clear a path through the fallacies, ad-hominems and other verbiage that he uses as part of his debating technique - he's the expert at this kind of thing, apparently having honed his skills in the trenches of left, atheist politics. Manicheism is a philosophy that believes that evil can be transformed into the good. You say that you have roots in Hibernia - do you mean that you come from the emerald isle?

      T.

      Ted Wrinch

      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Charlotte Cowell <charlottecowell@...> wrote:
      >
      > I'm not really sure what the 'Hole' is and have never heard of this professor - maybe he does need 'stopping', I used to have the fire for that kind of thing but not so much anymore. Then again, we all have our causes and some things still do get to me. My problem I guess is I spent many years working with a group that was characterised by violent, mindless in-fighting between catholics and anthroposophists, which was a terrible shame as the wealth of spiritual knowledge held between members was enormous, just not put to good use in a group context (for the most part, though some people did try persistently).
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      > In that respect I am very wary about indulging in any kind of polemic across cyberspace as it tends to lead to what I term 'electrical' damage. I appreciate the prof may well be the instigator, though, so if you feel it's a cause worth fighting for then who am I to say it's best not to bother. There's turning the other cheek and then there's being blind to lies, corruption and injustice - not the same thing....like I say, I'm just more wary of 'engagement' these days.
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      > Not sure what you mean by Manichean in this context, I am not Manichean as far as I'm aware, I'm Christian with deep roots in Hibernia and certainly haven't spent my life ignoring the physical aspects of my existence, although I do think there's something to be said for 'rising above' the mud wrestling if it can possibly be avoided :-)
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      > --- On Mon, 7/3/11, ted.wrinch <ted.wrinch@...> wrote:
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      > From: ted.wrinch <ted.wrinch@...>
      > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Peter Staudenmaier Goes Into Orbit
      > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Monday, 7 March, 2011, 23:08
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      > It's a nice sentiment that I fully endorse. We can and should do all that we are able to to help support the good. But, I can't see that this should extend to condoning, accepting or ignoring the lies and spirit-scoffing from the Herr Professor. The Manichean way would be the best; but as that's not a technique I have much talent at I think I'm best sticking to the more intellectual approach that I can manage. By taking this approach, I can and was easily able to demonstrate PS's complete incompetence and dishonesty over in the Hole. And that's something of value in my book.
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      > T.
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      > Ted Wrinch
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      > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Charlotte Cowell <charlottecowell@> wrote:
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      > > I think it's time we all let ourselves let go of the past - not our
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      > > memories of love, beauty, hopes and dreams etc, but just the things
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      > > that drag us down either individually or collectively. The peaceful
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      > > be about good vibrations now, more than ever.
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      > > I don't say this from a tree top whilst imbibing cannabis or LSD, I say
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      > > it from a sense of exhaustion at all the fighting in the world - and a
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      > > desire to hang onto the small spark of life that still has faith that
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      > > the human race can (and will) drag itself out of the mire. Here and now
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      > > --- On Mon, 7/3/11, ted.wrinch <ted.wrinch@> wrote:
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      > > From: ted.wrinch <ted.wrinch@>
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      > > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Peter Staudenmaier Goes Into Orbit
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      > > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
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      > > Date: Monday, 7 March, 2011, 22:15
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      > > Frank and a couple of others here seem to have pushed all Peter S.s go buttons at once, and he has lifted off into orbit on a wave of far-left, anti-semitic-fighting, racism-attacking ardour. All his left progressive, atheist, spirit-scoffing and dishonesty mirror neurones appear to be firing at once:
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      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17692?l=1
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      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/17691?l=1
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      > > He's defending the world against esotericists and anthros and other anti-intellectual, democracy-hating scum, And he's making America safe for Americans by shoring up the crumbling church-state barricades:
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      > > He knows the truth! 2000 years of supine xtianity, slathering at the bit to get the Christ killers, reading false gospels from lying, duplicitous evangelists, are being shown by our intrepid spirit-scoffer - making the world safe for neo-marxism and atheism again! - to be the racist, anti-Semitic, conspiracy-loving rabble that our intrepid hero for the anti-spirit has always known them to be. The enlightenment has been pouring from his keyboard, as his fingers try to keep up with his (solipsistic) planet sized brain; we should be awed by the scholarly wisdom that is now flowing and that tells us that that the crucifixion was only 'an act ordered and carried out by Roman colonists against jews', and was completely unconnected with the Sanhedrin. After 2000 years we finally know the truth - the gospels were simply wrong!
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      > > It's also so cool that Peter is here to correct us as we are : "unfamiliar with our own tradition…[and] frequently unfamiliar with basic aspects of Christian tradition, indeed of virtually any religious traditions [sic]". It's amazing that Peter has such knowledge of xtianity, knowledge that the evangelists, the co- founders of the religion, didn't have, and that Peter can now provide for us all. We should feel blessed!
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      > > So that's great Peter! I feel that my foggy, anti-rational, homo-phobic, white-supremacist, academic-hating, anti-Semitism-loving brain and self have now been corrected, chastised and reprimanded for their erring ways by your judicious, balanced, accurate, sensitive, deep and far-ranging account.
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      > > T.
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      > > Ted Wrinch
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