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44834Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Do Not Fear ?

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  • dottie zold
    May 17, 2010
      Rick and friends, what must be considered deeply is the experience of the Nathan Soul in all of this. It must be considered that he as a human being, was deeply impacted as well as its not 'just' a 'Christ thing'. One must put oneself in the position of the Nathan Soul in these experiences.
      Let me tell you before the transfiguration this Nathan Soul was sort of in the position of bystander as the Christ took over his body. However, what must be considered is what happens when the naked child slipped out. What must be considered is that Jesus himself awoke too, before the Christ would be fully integrated, in that Jesus could say as Paul 'the Christ in me' from a human perspective! The mystery has not been understood in its fullness.
      What helps us to understand the Magdalene and that moment is to understand too that Jesus!, the Nathan Soul! too was still in his humaness but now awake but still with much to go before he could ascend! fully. If we look to our own strivings, our own endeavors than we too have to see what it would be like, what it will be like, what it is like to have one who is so close to you in the steps of this journey that if you were to meet this moment as Jesus and the Magdalene did, you would both be trying to figure out the next step. It is in this vein we must consider the passage the experience of when these two meet in the garden after his ascenscion from the initial Golgothat experience.
      If a close friend was to appear before me, my love was to appear before me at a death, what do you think I would do? In my studies I would know to be forthwith awake to the best of my ability and to serve and be ready to the quick. So too did the Magdalene know this.
      All good things,

      "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner

      --- On Mon, 5/17/10, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:

      From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
      Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Do Not Fear ?
      To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 8:37 AM

      I will start with just up to the third paragraph that being that its not about the 'translation' Rick, rather its about the 'experience' of the moment. If one takes into consideration all that the Magdalene was to the Christ and to Jesus, one would clearly get a picture of loving appreciation that one could meet Him as she did in the garden. This is not a metaphor nor is it coming off other legends as they too use th is moment in the garden in their mysteries, rather this was a real human being and another real human being who had the utmost love and respect for one another and strengthened one another more than any other they were around.
      Where I believe Steiner students lose the sense for the Magdalene is that they are reading translations. If we just look to Jesus at the marriage of Cana with his mother we will have a good picture from Rudolf Steiner's 'something weaves between thou and I' of what takes place between the Magdalene and Christ Jesus.
      The emphasis is continually put towards Lazarus which is fine, however that is only because Rudolf Steiner did not divulge the feminine mysteries and said another would. I do not know who that other is although I will say I have not seen it yet. The closest I have come to this question of the importance of the Magdalene is in The Tree of Life and the Holy Grail. She has a very nice, and a Steiner student, she has a very nice clear picture of the essene of this woman in the world and in they mysteries although also stopping short of full recognition which is normal for all of us.
      If one should see this moment in the akashic records I believe they will see and experience the deep, very deep love and devotion and appreciation they held and hold for one another in the world. And it is more than what is accounted towards Lazarus in the sense that even he did not reach to the inner level, he may have reached an upper level, but the inner level was the Magdalene.
      I believe if one approaches the Magdalene and Christ Jesus in a manner past translations one will come to the essence of what they were to one another and for the world. When two come together as these two the world changes. It is the story of Novalis and Sophia, Lincoln and his love, any great lover and thinker of man who meets the other who beyond a shadow of a doubt holds the key to their soul.
      That moment was one of the greatest love moments of mankind. True objective love in the world and all for the world. We are looking in a way at what is spoken of in regards to the committment that Rudolf Steiner and Ita Wegman made on behalf of Michael in the world while together. There is no greater love then this. And to me this is what Waldorf education builds towards: the souls meeting one another in love.
      All good things,
      p.s. I will read the rest later on.

      "Hence only by means of love can we give real help for karma to work out in the right way." Rudolf Steiner

      --- On Mon, 5/17/10, radistasi <rdistasi@...> wrote:

      From: radistasi <rdistasi@...>
      Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Do Not Fear ?
      To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 12:00 AM

      Did Christ say to MM Touch Me Not or Do Not Fear. I am going to continue to hold to the traditional rendition that Christ did communicate to MM to desist from touching/clinging to Him on the morning of Easter. I have read Gerry Palo's article on this and Gerry and I went through this years ago. I held one position and he held another. I did suggest to Gerry that I thought that he was correct in his assertion and premise but that there is also another component to this particular moment. There is no "one answer only" rendition. The presumption that an early transcriber misrepresented the words of Christ and that He actually said Do Not Fear (see William Barclay's work in this regard) is an extremely speculative presumption at best. One would be predicating one's perspective on the remote possibility that the other times in the Gospel (I'll refer to Luke at the moment) the translations were correct when referring to the word "fear" but then at this one very critical moment a mistake in translation/copying was made. It is asking too much to accept this as any real viable answer.

      If there had been any mistranslation then it would have been better suited to say that the actual words of Christ may have been, Do Not Be Sorrowed rather than not Do Not Fear for I have yet to ascend to the Father. These words of Christ would have then been a foreshadowing of the time when Christ has His Ascension and that this is followed by the deep despondency that the Apostles and disciples of Christ then experienced because of the departure of Christ. This despondency is only resolved at the time of Pentecost.

      Granted the word fear is mentioned several times in the Gospels in regard to the scenes of the women arriving at the tomb. But to say that for this one time when Christ speaks to MM the transcriber misses it completely or copies it incorrectly is quite fanciful. I fully have to disagree with William Barclay on this matter. Also, the word fear is used in the contextual manner of addressing the issue that when the women arrived at the tomb they were in fear and filled with anxiety. Yes, they were in fear for their lives. And when they saw the empty tomb they were then filled with the anxiety of not knowing what happened to the body of Jesus; who removed it; where is it.

      Later in the evening Christ suddenly appears to the Apostles and tells them Not To Fear. It is His sudden appearance that shocks them; "But they were startled and panic-stricken, and thought that they saw a spirit." Luke 24:37. In the same manner, when Gabriel appears to Mary he tells Mary Not to Fear. It is his sudden appearance as well that shocks her to which Gabriel allays her fear; "Do Not Be Afraid" see Luke 1:30. This is no different as when you are sitting in a quiet room and someone suddenly bursts into the room. It is often quite a shock to the soul.

      In the MM - Risen Christ encounter we do NOT have the sudden shock of appearance. MM and Christ had already been in engaged with one another before Christ communicates the words to MM, Touch Me Not. Here again I agreed with Gerry Palo and told him that I think that he was correct in suggesting that Christ was telling MM that she should no longer "cling" to her old understanding of the nature of His Being. He is different now and will be working in new ways than before. I agree with all of this. My point is that there is still another component to the words Touch Me Not and I think that Emil Bock alluded to it in his book, "The Three Years." He wrote (page 240) that at the time when Christ told MM Touch Me Not, "The Easter Mystery is (was) not yet consummated." And I believe that Bock was right.

      On the morning of Easter the Resurrection Mystery was not yet consummated. The new phantom body of Christ had not yet fully internalized the Father/Atma principle and its synthesis with Father/Atma element of the earth, the Father/Atma element of this solar system and the Father/Atma element of the zodiacal constellations. It was sunrise and this process was not yet completed until sunset. It is at the portions of the day of sunrise and sunset that the Elohim are most proficient in their work in the world. It is this connection with the Sun Elohim that Christ works in unison. Even in the Gospel of Mark there is an allusion to the fact that Christ was changing throughout the day. Of the two disciples on the road to Emmaus, the Mark Gospel has: "After this (after His appearance to MM) He was manifested in another FORM to two of them, as they were walking on their way into the country." Mark 16:12. BTW, Christ did not eat bread with them. He blesses and breaks the bread and hands it to the two disciples to which this moment, "opens their eyes, and they recognized Him, and he vanished from their sight." Luke 24:31.

      Another point that Bock recognizes is that the initial process of the Resurrection is out in the open at first but once sunset strikes the Resurrection process is now internal(ized). The breaking of the bread with the two disciples is now inside at the beginning hour of the evening. They are no longer on the road. The appearance to the Apostles is inside the upper room after sunset. The Resurrection Mystery is now consummated. The Apostles are now encouraged to touch His wounds.

      rick distasi 


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