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41736Re: Islam and Anthroposophy: An approach.

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  • elfuncle
    Sep 3, 2009
      http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19051025p01.html

      "In the earthly world Jahve represents that God who endows beings with the possibility of physical reproduction. Everything else (intellect) did not lie in the Jahve-Intention. If Jahve's intention alone had continued to develop, the human being would eventually have ceased to be able to reproduce himself, for the power of reproduction would have become exhausted. He would then only have been concerned with the creation of beautiful forms, for he was indifferent to what is inward, intellectual. Jehovah wished to produce beautifully formed human beings, like beautiful statues. His intention was that the power of reproduction should be continued until it had expended itself. He wanted to have a planet that only bore upon it beautiful but completely motionless forms. If the Earth had continued its evolution with the Moon within it, it would have developed into a completely rigid, frozen form. Jehovah would have immortalised his planet as a monument to his intention. This would doubtless have come about had not those Adepts, who had hastened beyond the Moon evolution now come forward. It was just at this time that they made their appearance. They had already developed on the Moon intelligence and the Spirit which we first developed on the Earth. They now took the rest of humanity into their charge and rescued them from the fate which otherwise would have befallen them. A new spark was kindled in the human astral body. Just at that time they gave to the human astral body the impetus to develop beyond this critical point. Jahve could now save the situation only by altering his manner of working. He created man and woman. What could no longer be contained in one sex was divided between the two sexes."

      (...............................................)

      "The Moon Adepts came to them and said: You must not follow Jehovah. He will not allow you to attain to knowledge but you should. That is the Snake. The Snake approached the woman, because she had the power to produce offspring out of herself. Now Jehovah said: Man has become like unto ourselves, and brings death into the world and everything connected with it.

      `Lucifer' is the name given to the Moon Adepts; they are the bestowers of human intellectuality. This they gave to the astral and physical bodies; had it been otherwise the Monads would not have been able to enter into them and the Earth would have become a planetary monument to Jehovah's greatness. By the intervention of the Luciferic principle human independence and spirituality were saved. Then Jehovah, so that man should not be completely spiritualised, divided the self-reproduction process into two parts. What would have been lost however if Jehovah had continued his work alone will reappear in the Sixth Root-Race, when man will have become so spiritualised that he will regain Kriya-shakti, the creative power of reproduction. He will be in the position to bring forth his own kind. In this way mankind was rescued from downfall.

      Through Jehovah's power man carries within himself the possibility of rigidifying. When one observes the three lower bodies we find that these bear within them the possibility of returning to the physical condition of the Earth. The upper parts: Atma, Buddhi, Manas, were only able to enter into human beings because the influence of the Snake was added. This gave man new life and the power to remain with the earthly planet. Reproduction however became bisexual and thereby birth and death entered into the world. Previously this had not happened."

      ( -- Rudolf Steiner: Foundations of Esotericism, Lecture 23, Berlin, 25th October, 1905, GA 93a)

      T


      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Well, looking to the lecture you offered up on Karma 1 lecture 10, I found it very interesting to note the highlights that had been brought forth from those followers of Mohammed even though, like everything in life, man will be tested by the Luciferic and Ahrimanic impulses in the world and they will be twisted. I don't think you can really include Turks in the Moslim tradition if we look at what Rudolf Steiner says about them....he actually differentiates them from Muhammeds' followers and it seems to me that blame, if there can be said to be any, with the hardening of thought within Islam can be directly placed to the Turks, which seems to me to be more of an Arabistic nature, then one closely tied to Mohammed.
      >  
      > Again I think with sensing past the words and meeting the people and how they interpret the word, will give peopel a sense of how Mohammed sits within them. Through my Muslum friend I meet so many other friends of his and the one thing they all have in commone is a love for Mohammed and also a sense of rebellion to those who will tell them how to think. And they have a great love, responsibility, and devotion to people, family, friends, and their activities.
      >  
      > If we use your quote below about 'away with the Trinity' we find the same thing in Christianity actually with the 'away with the Soul' in the Court of Constanople of 869. We find the same thing in Judaism with no Christ. They all did the same thing with 'away with the Trinity'.
      >  
      > I'm glad you brought up this Sun Moon and Earth, as I have been thinking alot about it lately: who is the being of the Earth, has been my question. If we have Christ on the Sun, and we have Jehova, who is Jehova anyway, one of the Elohim right?, then who do we have at the center of the earth....well it seems to me it must be Lucifer.
      >  
      > All good things,
      > Dottie
      >
      > "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner
      >
      > --- On Thu, 9/3/09, elfuncle <coolvibes@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: elfuncle <coolvibes@...>
      > Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Islam and Anthroposophy: An approach.
      > To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 9:27 AM
      >
      >
      >
      > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/YoungDoctors/19240424a01.html
      >
      > "Just think how abstractly, how brutally, how heedlessly investigations are made into these things today and you will realize what is really lacking and has been killed, in spite of the fact that Arabism did conserve much of the wisdom, conscientiousness and skill of ancient times. It has been killed because Moon, Sun and Saturn â€" this Trinity which was then disguised as Father, Son and Spirit â€" disappeared and was repudiated by Arabian thought in Mohammedanism with the words: "Away with this Trinity. Mohammed proclaims only one God!" (Mohammed himself did not say this, but the Angel who inspired him, did. He was not one of the best Angels although he was a very wise one.) And so we see that all differentiations in the world are allowed to disappear; things which ought to be known are darkened and our medicine has become an Arabian-Mohammedan medicine. European humanity was incapable of discovering the truth. Today these things must be known or
      > mankind will go to pieces."
      >
      > ( -- Rudolf Steiner: Course for Young Doctors, Lecture 4,Dornach, April 24, 1924, GA 316)
      >
      > T
      >
      >
      > --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, dottie zold <dottie_z@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I think a good term to use is the Godhead versus God. We are not seperate from the Godhead. And the Godhead is not understood. The difficultly being for a group like Anthroposophy, and why we have such a division regarding the Tomberg influence with his Jesuit leanings, is that it can become 'Godless'. This is a big problem if you just take the understanding and use of the term God versus what is intended with term Godhead. Freemasons have the same issue, the ones who pride themselves on esotericm: Man at the center and no Godhead, God, and now even no Christ. This goes against what that form was founded for in the first place, in my experience.
      > >  
      > > Rereading the lectures Rudolf Steiner gave to the Priests regarding Revelations I was seeing the big issue specifically for anthros who pride themselves, and it is a pride I notice, pride themselves on their ability to think clearly about things, to discect things in a way. Issue is that the intellect is the one area that we are free in. And it is our wound in a sense that this is where the Ahrimanic beings look to infiltrate in any manner they can.
      > >  
      > > If we look to the beautiful quote you offer from Love and Its Meaning in the World we see that its not 'strenght/might, nor wisdom that saves the day, it is Love. And this Love streams forth from Christ into this earthly world and truthfully from all the Beings working with the Godhead. For me this means to bring understanding into the term God and to help direct it through Love, to its proper place within the form created by those who follow this God as if their own being has no ongoing development.
      > >  
      > > Arabism is different. This was brought about through the forces that oppose man. Muhammed saved his people, at that time, from becoming the backward people who could not find One God, and were still stuck in the nature religion. Sufism helps to merge an ongoing evolution within Islam that will be its redeeming in this earthly world. That's the way I can see it. He created, for any people who will be born into this religion, to be able to at the very least cultivate a deep love for God and little by little this will lead to the Christ, as the Christ is inherent within their own book as well, but of course in the dogmatic form, just like Christians, as the boy Jesus and his Mother Mary. They didn't remain the pagans of the middle east, nor did they become the Gypsys, they left that world towards the freedom inherent within the Godhead as was brought forth through the Christ at Golgotha, they found a form at the end of Gabriel's time. It was Gabriel that
      > >  brought Muhammed the message.  Just as many Jews did not become Christians neither did what we now know as Islamists become Christians. But as Christ is in the world, we are born into Christ now, so too are the Muslims.
      > >  
      > > Arabism has to do with the anti Christ not Islam. Unfortunately for the Muslims though their leaders in the Church are just as bad as the Jesuits here now and the conservative Rabbis of the Jewish tradition. It's all vanity.. But I see Christ making an inroad and I think alot of that has to do with the fact that Jesus is in their book, Mother Mary is mentioned more times than one would believe. So he's there and he didn't have to be there. But Muhammed included him. That's important. Whatever happened later on, just like what happened to Christianity, the founder's words are used to commit the most hideous crimes against humanity, without anyone lifting a finger until it becomes too inhumane for people to bare.
      > >  
      > > Thanks again for the readint links,
      > >  
      > > All good things,
      > > Dottie
      > > "If there is something more powerful than destiny, this must be the human being who bears destiny unshaken." Rudolf Steiner
      > >
      >
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      > ------------------------------------
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