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41586Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Steiner on sociopaths

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  • Sonjia Michaels
    Aug 13, 2009
      I'm Sonjia.  It is my understanding from Steiner that the Luciferic spirits are those angels who are retarded in their development -- they lagged behind the angel development.  The Ahrimanic spirits are those coming up in their development behind us.  This would address why they will not be redeemed in this cosmic evolution, and why the Luciferic spirits can be.  In Steiner's "Cosmic Ego and Human Ego, The Nature of Christ the Ressurected," Steiner explains how the Luciferic spirits are being redeemed through us.  It is also my understanding that Ahrimanic spirits can "possess" us for short or longer periods of time -- "tempt" us to perform certain acts that we would not normally do. 
      In the same lecture referenced above, Steiner states that Christ was of the Sun evolution.  Made me think that even though the Sun (before the moon and earth split off) is part of our evolution, it is also part of an evolution separate from our own (?),  This lecture also stated that Christ has only developed an ego -- not the higher members which we will develop in the future -- but that it is deeper than Luciferic spirits can do -- we can be influenced by these Luciferic spirits and become more intellient, clever, etc. -- develop principles before their appropriate time.  He cautions that we should continue to develop our ego as the Christ has done for us, which will bring us greater light and love.  I have also read Steiner addressing Yaweh as the Christ.  Have any of you read this too?   

      --- On Wed, 8/12/09, Kim <kimgm@...> wrote:

      From: Kim <kimgm@...>
      Subject: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: Steiner on sociopaths
      To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 3:36 PM

      Hi Dottie,
      The difference between Lucifer and Ahriman is that Lucifer is an inner
      reality and Ahriman is an outer reality, he is not part of us, but
      underlying the physical reality.
      As Lucifer is the negative aspect of the Father, and Ahriman the
      negative aspect of the Mother, so are Sorat the negative aspect of the
      Son. Christ is Love, and if we don't build this in our selves, we lose
      the little we have of our I to the Soratic spirits.

      --- In anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com, dottie zold
      <dottie_z@.. .> wrote:
      > Hi Kim, thanks for some quotes. It seems to me that we are directly
      dealing with the earlthly element of Lucifer and Ahriman therefore we do
      have beings out of place who are working counter, and finding those
      human I's who will work with them and for them, mostly obviously
      unconscious at this point, however in the future more consciously as
      they will make a choice to align with the dying earth versus the
      transforming earth. And then it seems the remenant of that will be what
      will be under the Ahriman control. I hesitate to say Sordat as I still
      do not understand his world.
      > We hear from some in the Steiner movement that Ahriman is not of this
      world of this cosmic evolutionary path and therefore he will not be
      redeemed as its not ours to redeem and then there are other quotes by
      Steiner that disagree with this and others that agree! Steiner is always
      so interesting and as there are seven layers to the mysteries as he
      shares I imagine any one take being made as a fact is counter to the
      esence of the thing.
      > Evil is evil without love then what we can also see this as is Ahriman
      and Lucifer without Christ is evil. Not the human being as there will be
      enough time for those who are in the process of finding him...but those
      who make a choice to make this world heaven on earth and disregard the
      transforming and rising earth will remain with it as a remenant for
      whatever that future world is with Ahriman aided by Sorat...again I
      cannot enter so well into this Sorat consideration as I am not clear on
      what his final wish is versus that of Ahriman and then versus that of
      Lucifer. As Lucifer is redeeming, and again we hear different schools of
      thoughts on Ahriman in the Steiner movement, its imagined that Lucifer
      is that which lights the way in the end.
      > I was thinking about this idea of Yaweh putting eminimity between the
      woman/Eve and the Devil/Lucifer. I was thinking .....well its
      interesting to me to consider their relationship. And Yawehs in that
      moment...funny reading Occult Science again and finding these little
      missed considerations that speak to mysteries from the Manas, Buddhi and
      Atma element of our soul....and so its ever deepening to me to know that
      there is always this twist when we think we know something, something
      else is trying to speak forth as well depending on the question of the
      > And the idea of Christ not being of the earth and yet Christ was when
      united with Earth Moon and Sun....but Ahriman and Sordat, depending on
      whom you listen in on in the Movement, are not of this world. And each
      schooling of thought has its own quotes to support its contention.. .Ahhh
      > So on this earth is what my concern is and on this point this is the
      Ahriman and Lucifer we are dealing with. And although I can look at
      their work as a challenge it is devestating at the same time when I can
      look around and see others at their mercy due to a dimmed
      consciousness. ...and everything seeks to keep this consciousness dimmed
      through media and now at an all time high through the foods we eat that
      are seeking as to what I can attest: to depresss man in his physical
      organs so that he cannot rise to his consciousness. ...
      > All good things,
      > Dottie

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