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40188Re: Steiner's Moon node returns

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  • ottmar12
    Feb 3, 2009
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      Hi Robert,

      A nice study you made.  Studying the biography of Rudolf Steiner or anyone's biography, the moon nodes are important, no doubt about it. (They show clearly in my life.) When I wrote about the meton cycle I only wanted to refer to the healing of the lame man at the pond of Bethesda in John 5.                                                                                                      

      ======

       

       

      From Wikipedia I got these numbers on the Metoncycle. In the few cases, that I calculated dates on long periods of time, I always used 365,2422 days for a year. With the numbers below you get a difference of 2 hours 5 minutes on 19 sun years and 235 synodic moons.

      Erdumlauf: duration of 1 year

      \begin{matrix}
1\,\mathrm{Jahr}  &=& {}\ 365,24219\,\mathrm{Tage} \\
19\,\mathrm{Jahre} &=&    6939,60162\,\mathrm{Tage}
\end{matrix}

      Mondumlauf: duration of 1 moon cycle synodic

      \begin{matrix}
{}\ 1\,\mathrm{Mondmonat}  &=& {}\quad 29,53059\,\mathrm{Tage} \\
235\,\mathrm{Mondmonate} &=&       6939,688415\,\mathrm{Tage}
\end{matrix}

      Differenz:

       \begin{align}
0,08679\,\mathrm{Tage} \ldots \mathrm{in}\, &19\,\mathrm {Jahren} \\
1\,\mathrm{Tag}   \ldots \mathrm{in}\, &218,92275\,\mathrm {Jahren}
\end{align}

       

      =====

       

      Robert writes: In Steiner's lecture "The Four Sacrifices of Christ", he talks about the harmonizing of the senses, the vital organs, the thinking-feeling-willing, and, yes, the Ego.
      But I didn't see him saying anything about the Zodiac, the Planets, or the Meton Cycle.I don't know where you're getting this from.

       

      Ottmar: This wasn't my study, it comes from a Dutch anthroposophic occultist, his works are mainly in Dutch, I phoned him on this question. It makes sense to me, it is coherent to what Rudolf Steiner says, imho. The Christ, coming down from outside time and space, from outside the world, from trinity, coming down through all spheres of the hierarchies, touching and healing every hierarchy, space and time, first came through the zodiac, then the planetary sphere, the system sun-earth-moon, down on earth into a human body. That's isn't new of course (I don't want to give you a course for anthropop first graders J), but then combine this descent with the early sacrifices of Christ, you can say it makes sense. No problem for me though, if you disagree.

       

      Kind regards Ottmar

       


      --- In anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com, Robert Mason <robertsmason_99@...> wrote:
      >
      > To Ottmar, who wrote:
      >
      > >>. . . . It seems that the 38 years do not
      > relate to two moon nodes, but to the meton
      > cycle. In John 5 the lame (or what is the
      > correct word?) man was healed by the Christ
      > after 38 years, in him our 5 th post atlantean
      > period is healed , the `deficency, sickness' of
      > our period.<<
      >
      > Robert writes:
      >
      > (I "ventilated" my prose, for easier
      > reading, I hope.)
      >
      > I Googled around some, and found the
      > "Meton cycle", and it is closer to half 38
      > years, literally.
      >
      > But two Moon node cycles are still 38 years
      > "qualitatively", and they do seem more relevant
      > here.
      >
      > In the case of this healing, Sucher (in
      > *Cosmic Christianity*) explains the relation to
      > the Moon nodes.
      >
      > The 38 years, qualitatively, point back to the
      > Nathan Jesus' "spiritual nativity".
      >
      > Sucher calculates the "spiritual nativity" as
      > being at the time that the "moon node" (he
      > doesn't say which one) was at the position of
      > the (physical) natal Moon.
      >
      > This particular "spiritual nativity" Sucher
      > places in the year 6 BC, but he doesn't give
      > the exact day.
      >
      > He puts this healing in the year 31 AD, two
      > Moon node cycles after the "spiritual nativity"
      > -- about 37.2 years, or 38 years
      > "qualitatively".
      >
      > So the Moon node, not the Meton cycle (as far
      > as I see), is crucial here.
      >
      > In the case of the "War in Heaven" 1841-
      > 1879, we have to deal with approximate dates.
      >
      > Steiner put the end of this War in the "Autumn"
      > and "November" of 1879.
      >
      > The beginning he put in the "1840s", the "early
      > 1840s", and "1841".
      >
      > So, *approximately* half this time is
      > *approximately* 19 years, which a first glance
      > might seem to refer to either the Moon node
      > cycle or the Meton cycle, or both.
      >
      > But in this case, it seems that we need to
      > look for a "meaningful" half-way point that
      > "mirrors" the beginning and the end of this
      > War, in the sense, as Steiner explains, the
      > end-point of the "spiritual war" (1879) is the
      > "mirror" of its beginning (1841), a "mirror"
      > that reflects to the time he was speaking:
      >
      > RS: "And now consider 1841 â€" 1879 â€" 1917! 1841
      > was the crucial year in the nineteenth century.
      > 1917 is its mirror-image. If one realizes that
      > the exertions of the crowd of ahrimanic spirits
      > in 1841, when the dragon started to fight
      > Michael in the spiritual world, are mirrored
      > right now [14th October] in 1917, much of what
      > is happening now will not really come as a
      > surprise."
      >
      > Robert continues:
      >
      > If we go back a Meton cycle from the
      > Autumn or Novemeber of 1819, we come to
      > November of 1860 -- not an especially
      > meaningful time, as far as I see.
      >
      > But if we go back a Moon node cycle (18.61
      > years), we come to 1861.27 AD, which is nearly
      > Rudolf Steiner's birthday (1861.16 AD).
      >
      > (45 days/365.25 days = 0.12, approx.
      > (1.00 - .12 = .88
      > (1979.88 - 18.61 = 1861.27)
      >
      > So here we come to the year 1861, which
      > has the same digits as 18.61. The World-Mind
      > seems to be saying to us: "Pay attention to
      > the Moon nodes in relation to Rudolf Steiner."
      >
      > And, as I have tried to show, Steiner's
      > first Moon node return coincided with his
      > Initiation and with the victory of Michael over
      > the Dragon, the time of the "fall of the
      > spirits of darkness".
      >
      > These are meaningful connections.
      >
      > Steiner's birth would be a meaningful "mirror"
      > reflecting the beginning to the end of the "War
      > in Heaven".
      >
      > A Moon node cycle before Steiner's birth does
      > not fall quite in the year 1841 (1861.16 -
      > 18.61 = 1842.55), but we might suppose that in
      > speaking of the 38 year span of 1841-1879
      > Steiner was speaking in terms of a "qualitative
      > quantity", and approximately.
      >
      > And elsewhere RS does seem to point to 1842 as
      > being the year of the start of the War in
      > Heaven:
      >
      > ". . . . the year 1842, the year we have given
      > for the materialistic crisis."
      > <http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19170320p01.html>
      >
      > "Men were not able to see this Guardian when
      > they went past him between the years 1842 and
      > 1879."
      > <http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19240112p01.html>
      >
      > "Thus we have the odd circumstance that
      > physicists today say: we have turned physics
      > into entirely new channels, we think entirely
      > otherwise about physical things than they did
      > before the year 1842."
      > <http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19200309p01.html>
      >
      > "The mode of forming ideas which de Saint-
      > Martin employed is no longer suited to the
      > way in which men must think today, nor to
      > the way in which they must, and rightly so,
      > formulate their thoughts. Just as in travelling,
      > when we pass from the domain of one language
      > into that of another, in that moment we can no
      > longer speak the language of the first, so
      > would it be foolish today to use the form of
      > thought of de Saint-Martin; more especially
      > would it be foolish, because that mighty
      > dividing line in Spiritual evolution which
      > falls in the year 1842 (in the first third
      > of the nineteenth century) lies between us."
      > <http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/19170320p01.html>
      >
      > So, altogether, it does seem to me that
      > the Moon node cycle is very meaningful and works
      > well in this context.
      >
      > Steiner apparently was speaking approximately,
      > "qualitatively" of this "38 year" period of
      > the War in Heaven.
      >
      > And Steiner's birth date fits very neatly at
      > the "mirror" point almost exactly one Moon
      > node cycle after the start and before the end
      > of this period.
      >
      > The Meton cycle of 19 years is
      > mathematically more nearly half of the 38-year
      > span, but otherwise I don't see a meaningful
      > connection in this context.
      >
      > But I do see a meaningful connection with the
      > Moon node cycle.
      >
      > Ottmar wrote:
      >
      > >>The meton cycle is 19 years or 6939 days,
      > that is the time Sun Moon and Earth need to
      > come into the same position to each other.<<
      >
      > Robert writes:
      >
      > 6939 days isn't quite 19 years (365.25
      > [Julian year] x 19 = 6939.75 days; 6939 / 19 =
      > 365.2105), so 6939 days is almost a day less
      > than 19 years.
      >
      > And so, we're still dealing with
      > approximations.
      >
      > Ottmar wrote:
      >
      > >>In Lemuria the first deed of Christ hamonized
      > the 12 fold zodiac
      > >>In early Atlantis the second deed of Christ
      > harmonized the spheres of the 7 planets, the
      > astral of man.
      > >>In late Atlantis the third deed or sacrifice
      > of the Christ hamonized the mental of men,
      > then the meton cycle for men was activated.
      > >>In historic times, 2000 years ago the Christ
      > saved the I or ICH of man.<<
      >
      > Robert writes:
      >
      > In Steiner's lecture "The Four Sacrifices
      > of Christ", he talks about the harmonizing of
      > the senses, the vital organs, the thinking-
      > feeling-willing, and, yes, the Ego.
      >
      > But I didn't see him saying anything about the
      > Zodiac, the Planets, or the Meton Cycle.
      >
      > I don't know where you're getting this from.
      >
      > And I don't know what you mean by *the meton
      > cycle for men was activated*.
      >
      > Still less do I see any connection to the 38
      > years in question.
      >
      > Ottmar wrote:
      >
      > >>The meton cycle is important for man's
      > destiny today, but it is easily mixed up with
      > the moon node.<<
      >
      > Robert writes:
      >
      > I can see how they could be mixed up;
      > they are approximately the same in length.
      >
      > But I don't see the general importance, and I
      > still don't the particular importance in this
      > case.
      >
      > Ottmar wrote:
      >
      > >>(For those who read Tomberg: he wrote on the
      > 4 sacrifices of Christ, giving additional
      > material. For decades these Tomberg texts
      > werethought to be ES lessons from Rudolf
      > Steiner, held in Stockholm. The ideas mentioned
      > above do not come from Tomberg, though!<<
      >
      > Robert writes:
      >
      > Steiner lectured on this subject 1st June,
      > 1914; Basel; GA 152:
      > <http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/ForSac_index.html>
      >
      > Ottmar wrote:
      >
      > >>I absolutely do not want to start a new
      > discussion about Tomberg!)<<
      >
      > Robert heaves a sigh of relief:
      >
      > That's a mercy indeed.
      >
      > Neither do I.
      >
      > RM
      >
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