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40182Re: Steiner's Moon node returns

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  • Robert Mason
    Feb 2, 2009
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      To Ottmar, who wrote:

      >>. . . . It seems that the 38 years do not
      relate to two moon nodes, but to the meton
      cycle. In John 5 the lame (or what is the
      correct word?) man was healed by the Christ
      after 38 years, in him our 5 th post atlantean
      period is healed , the `deficency, sickness' of
      our period.<<

      Robert writes:

      (I "ventilated" my prose, for easier
      reading, I hope.)

      I Googled around some, and found the
      "Meton cycle", and it is closer to half 38
      years, literally.

      But two Moon node cycles are still 38 years
      "qualitatively", and they do seem more relevant

      In the case of this healing, Sucher (in
      *Cosmic Christianity*) explains the relation to
      the Moon nodes.

      The 38 years, qualitatively, point back to the
      Nathan Jesus' "spiritual nativity".

      Sucher calculates the "spiritual nativity" as
      being at the time that the "moon node" (he
      doesn't say which one) was at the position of
      the (physical) natal Moon.

      This particular "spiritual nativity" Sucher
      places in the year 6 BC, but he doesn't give
      the exact day.

      He puts this healing in the year 31 AD, two
      Moon node cycles after the "spiritual nativity"
      -- about 37.2 years, or 38 years

      So the Moon node, not the Meton cycle (as far
      as I see), is crucial here.

      In the case of the "War in Heaven" 1841-
      1879, we have to deal with approximate dates.

      Steiner put the end of this War in the "Autumn"
      and "November" of 1879.

      The beginning he put in the "1840s", the "early
      1840s", and "1841".

      So, *approximately* half this time is
      *approximately* 19 years, which a first glance
      might seem to refer to either the Moon node
      cycle or the Meton cycle, or both.

      But in this case, it seems that we need to
      look for a "meaningful" half-way point that
      "mirrors" the beginning and the end of this
      War, in the sense, as Steiner explains, the
      end-point of the "spiritual war" (1879) is the
      "mirror" of its beginning (1841), a "mirror"
      that reflects to the time he was speaking:

      RS: "And now consider 1841 — 1879 — 1917! 1841
      was the crucial year in the nineteenth century.
      1917 is its mirror-image. If one realizes that
      the exertions of the crowd of ahrimanic spirits
      in 1841, when the dragon started to fight
      Michael in the spiritual world, are mirrored
      right now [14th October] in 1917, much of what
      is happening now will not really come as a

      Robert continues:

      If we go back a Meton cycle from the
      Autumn or Novemeber of 1819, we come to
      November of 1860 -- not an especially
      meaningful time, as far as I see.

      But if we go back a Moon node cycle (18.61
      years), we come to 1861.27 AD, which is nearly
      Rudolf Steiner's birthday (1861.16 AD).

      (45 days/365.25 days = 0.12, approx.
      (1.00 - .12 = .88
      (1979.88 - 18.61 = 1861.27)

      So here we come to the year 1861, which
      has the same digits as 18.61. The World-Mind
      seems to be saying to us: "Pay attention to
      the Moon nodes in relation to Rudolf Steiner."

      And, as I have tried to show, Steiner's
      first Moon node return coincided with his
      Initiation and with the victory of Michael over
      the Dragon, the time of the "fall of the
      spirits of darkness".

      These are meaningful connections.

      Steiner's birth would be a meaningful "mirror"
      reflecting the beginning to the end of the "War
      in Heaven".

      A Moon node cycle before Steiner's birth does
      not fall quite in the year 1841 (1861.16 -
      18.61 = 1842.55), but we might suppose that in
      speaking of the 38 year span of 1841-1879
      Steiner was speaking in terms of a "qualitative
      quantity", and approximately.

      And elsewhere RS does seem to point to 1842 as
      being the year of the start of the War in

      ". . . . the year 1842, the year we have given
      for the materialistic crisis."

      "Men were not able to see this Guardian when
      they went past him between the years 1842 and

      "Thus we have the odd circumstance that
      physicists today say: we have turned physics
      into entirely new channels, we think entirely
      otherwise about physical things than they did
      before the year 1842."

      "The mode of forming ideas which de Saint-
      Martin employed is no longer suited to the
      way in which men must think today, nor to
      the way in which they must, and rightly so,
      formulate their thoughts. Just as in travelling,
      when we pass from the domain of one language
      into that of another, in that moment we can no
      longer speak the language of the first, so
      would it be foolish today to use the form of
      thought of de Saint-Martin; more especially
      would it be foolish, because that mighty
      dividing line in Spiritual evolution which
      falls in the year 1842 (in the first third
      of the nineteenth century) lies between us."

      So, altogether, it does seem to me that
      the Moon node cycle is very meaningful and works
      well in this context.

      Steiner apparently was speaking approximately,
      "qualitatively" of this "38 year" period of
      the War in Heaven.

      And Steiner's birth date fits very neatly at
      the "mirror" point almost exactly one Moon
      node cycle after the start and before the end
      of this period.

      The Meton cycle of 19 years is
      mathematically more nearly half of the 38-year
      span, but otherwise I don't see a meaningful
      connection in this context.

      But I do see a meaningful connection with the
      Moon node cycle.

      Ottmar wrote:

      >>The meton cycle is 19 years or 6939 days,
      that is the time Sun Moon and Earth need to
      come into the same position to each other.<<

      Robert writes:

      6939 days isn't quite 19 years (365.25
      [Julian year] x 19 = 6939.75 days; 6939 / 19 =
      365.2105), so 6939 days is almost a day less
      than 19 years.

      And so, we're still dealing with

      Ottmar wrote:

      >>In Lemuria the first deed of Christ hamonized
      the 12 fold zodiac
      >>In early Atlantis the second deed of Christ
      harmonized the spheres of the 7 planets, the
      astral of man.
      >>In late Atlantis the third deed or sacrifice
      of the Christ hamonized the mental of men,
      then the meton cycle for men was activated.
      >>In historic times, 2000 years ago the Christ
      saved the I or ICH of man.<<

      Robert writes:

      In Steiner's lecture "The Four Sacrifices
      of Christ", he talks about the harmonizing of
      the senses, the vital organs, the thinking-
      feeling-willing, and, yes, the Ego.

      But I didn't see him saying anything about the
      Zodiac, the Planets, or the Meton Cycle.

      I don't know where you're getting this from.

      And I don't know what you mean by *the meton
      cycle for men was activated*.

      Still less do I see any connection to the 38
      years in question.

      Ottmar wrote:

      >>The meton cycle is important for man's
      destiny today, but it is easily mixed up with
      the moon node.<<

      Robert writes:

      I can see how they could be mixed up;
      they are approximately the same in length.

      But I don't see the general importance, and I
      still don't the particular importance in this

      Ottmar wrote:

      >>(For those who read Tomberg: he wrote on the
      4 sacrifices of Christ, giving additional
      material. For decades these Tomberg texts
      werethought to be ES lessons from Rudolf
      Steiner, held in Stockholm. The ideas mentioned
      above do not come from Tomberg, though!<<

      Robert writes:

      Steiner lectured on this subject 1st June,
      1914; Basel; GA 152:

      Ottmar wrote:

      >>I absolutely do not want to start a new
      discussion about Tomberg!)<<

      Robert heaves a sigh of relief:

      That's a mercy indeed.

      Neither do I.

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