40182Re: Steiner's Moon node returns
- Feb 2, 2009To Ottmar, who wrote:
>>. . . . It seems that the 38 years do notrelate to two moon nodes, but to the meton
cycle. In John 5 the lame (or what is the
correct word?) man was healed by the Christ
after 38 years, in him our 5 th post atlantean
period is healed , the `deficency, sickness' of
(I "ventilated" my prose, for easier
reading, I hope.)
I Googled around some, and found the
"Meton cycle", and it is closer to half 38
But two Moon node cycles are still 38 years
"qualitatively", and they do seem more relevant
In the case of this healing, Sucher (in
*Cosmic Christianity*) explains the relation to
the Moon nodes.
The 38 years, qualitatively, point back to the
Nathan Jesus' "spiritual nativity".
Sucher calculates the "spiritual nativity" as
being at the time that the "moon node" (he
doesn't say which one) was at the position of
the (physical) natal Moon.
This particular "spiritual nativity" Sucher
places in the year 6 BC, but he doesn't give
the exact day.
He puts this healing in the year 31 AD, two
Moon node cycles after the "spiritual nativity"
-- about 37.2 years, or 38 years
So the Moon node, not the Meton cycle (as far
as I see), is crucial here.
In the case of the "War in Heaven" 1841-
1879, we have to deal with approximate dates.
Steiner put the end of this War in the "Autumn"
and "November" of 1879.
The beginning he put in the "1840s", the "early
1840s", and "1841".
So, *approximately* half this time is
*approximately* 19 years, which a first glance
might seem to refer to either the Moon node
cycle or the Meton cycle, or both.
But in this case, it seems that we need to
look for a "meaningful" half-way point that
"mirrors" the beginning and the end of this
War, in the sense, as Steiner explains, the
end-point of the "spiritual war" (1879) is the
"mirror" of its beginning (1841), a "mirror"
that reflects to the time he was speaking:
RS: "And now consider 1841 — 1879 — 1917! 1841
was the crucial year in the nineteenth century.
1917 is its mirror-image. If one realizes that
the exertions of the crowd of ahrimanic spirits
in 1841, when the dragon started to fight
Michael in the spiritual world, are mirrored
right now [14th October] in 1917, much of what
is happening now will not really come as a
If we go back a Meton cycle from the
Autumn or Novemeber of 1819, we come to
November of 1860 -- not an especially
meaningful time, as far as I see.
But if we go back a Moon node cycle (18.61
years), we come to 1861.27 AD, which is nearly
Rudolf Steiner's birthday (1861.16 AD).
(45 days/365.25 days = 0.12, approx.
(1.00 - .12 = .88
(1979.88 - 18.61 = 1861.27)
So here we come to the year 1861, which
has the same digits as 18.61. The World-Mind
seems to be saying to us: "Pay attention to
the Moon nodes in relation to Rudolf Steiner."
And, as I have tried to show, Steiner's
first Moon node return coincided with his
Initiation and with the victory of Michael over
the Dragon, the time of the "fall of the
spirits of darkness".
These are meaningful connections.
Steiner's birth would be a meaningful "mirror"
reflecting the beginning to the end of the "War
A Moon node cycle before Steiner's birth does
not fall quite in the year 1841 (1861.16 -
18.61 = 1842.55), but we might suppose that in
speaking of the 38 year span of 1841-1879
Steiner was speaking in terms of a "qualitative
quantity", and approximately.
And elsewhere RS does seem to point to 1842 as
being the year of the start of the War in
". . . . the year 1842, the year we have given
for the materialistic crisis."
"Men were not able to see this Guardian when
they went past him between the years 1842 and
"Thus we have the odd circumstance that
physicists today say: we have turned physics
into entirely new channels, we think entirely
otherwise about physical things than they did
before the year 1842."
"The mode of forming ideas which de Saint-
Martin employed is no longer suited to the
way in which men must think today, nor to
the way in which they must, and rightly so,
formulate their thoughts. Just as in travelling,
when we pass from the domain of one language
into that of another, in that moment we can no
longer speak the language of the first, so
would it be foolish today to use the form of
thought of de Saint-Martin; more especially
would it be foolish, because that mighty
dividing line in Spiritual evolution which
falls in the year 1842 (in the first third
of the nineteenth century) lies between us."
So, altogether, it does seem to me that
the Moon node cycle is very meaningful and works
well in this context.
Steiner apparently was speaking approximately,
"qualitatively" of this "38 year" period of
the War in Heaven.
And Steiner's birth date fits very neatly at
the "mirror" point almost exactly one Moon
node cycle after the start and before the end
of this period.
The Meton cycle of 19 years is
mathematically more nearly half of the 38-year
span, but otherwise I don't see a meaningful
connection in this context.
But I do see a meaningful connection with the
Moon node cycle.
>>The meton cycle is 19 years or 6939 days,that is the time Sun Moon and Earth need to
come into the same position to each other.<<
6939 days isn't quite 19 years (365.25
[Julian year] x 19 = 6939.75 days; 6939 / 19 =
365.2105), so 6939 days is almost a day less
than 19 years.
And so, we're still dealing with
>>In Lemuria the first deed of Christ hamonizedthe 12 fold zodiac
>>In early Atlantis the second deed of Christharmonized the spheres of the 7 planets, the
astral of man.
>>In late Atlantis the third deed or sacrificeof the Christ hamonized the mental of men,
then the meton cycle for men was activated.
>>In historic times, 2000 years ago the Christsaved the I or ICH of man.<<
In Steiner's lecture "The Four Sacrifices
of Christ", he talks about the harmonizing of
the senses, the vital organs, the thinking-
feeling-willing, and, yes, the Ego.
But I didn't see him saying anything about the
Zodiac, the Planets, or the Meton Cycle.
I don't know where you're getting this from.
And I don't know what you mean by *the meton
cycle for men was activated*.
Still less do I see any connection to the 38
years in question.
>>The meton cycle is important for man'sdestiny today, but it is easily mixed up with
the moon node.<<
I can see how they could be mixed up;
they are approximately the same in length.
But I don't see the general importance, and I
still don't the particular importance in this
>>(For those who read Tomberg: he wrote on the4 sacrifices of Christ, giving additional
material. For decades these Tomberg texts
werethought to be ES lessons from Rudolf
Steiner, held in Stockholm. The ideas mentioned
above do not come from Tomberg, though!<<
Steiner lectured on this subject 1st June,
1914; Basel; GA 152:
>>I absolutely do not want to start a newdiscussion about Tomberg!)<<
Robert heaves a sigh of relief:
That's a mercy indeed.
Neither do I.
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