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37234Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the theme of sacrifice of The Christ and some personal matters

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  • Andrei O.
    May 1, 2008
      Hi, everyone !

      That subjects of boys changing the I-s etc. is a sensible one and i am not the one to have answers on Yeshua's life. For the time being, I incline to think that it was as described in my previous message. My language possible failed me. But I would like to repeat all these, because certainly I won't do it better then before. Should improve my English.
      Was the Christ God? Yes, if we accept the trinity as god.
      Did Hebrew and Romans kill god? No, because it is impossible.
      Church? I grew up as atheist. That is the culture that was inculcated to me, that is how I was educated. The church where I go when I want to go - the Christian orthodox one. I also attended several protestant gatherings. I've mentioned it before: the church, i.e. the community of Christ, is a necessary thing. How it is carrying out it's key-priority task - that's another think. However, I am sure the things with the church will change into better, because everything in church depends on men (priests), and men CAN change.
      I would say that I, persons like me, those who lived in soviet period, on soviet area, have a certain mentality or vision - we usually do not go often to the church, and the church has no deep influence on our world-vision.
      As for the pain, suffering, I am not fun of the feelings at all. But it happens, because any man should be able of co-living, co-feeling wit others, with different layers and sides of existence. We may feel pain or suffering due to the compassion we educate in us; compassion, i.e. feelings the same as others do, being able to understand better others, trying to put yourselves in others shoes, opening your heart etc.
      However, I am not fun at all of these feelings of grieve. Actually I do not like these kind of feelings. If these feelings are coming not from compassion, but due to the life itself (i.e. these are your own feelings), then the overwhelming of these kinds of grieve feelings in day-by-day life it has an destroyable impact on the society.


      ----- Original Message ----
      From: dottie zold <dottie_z@...>
      To: anthroposophy_tomorrow@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2008 6:36:16 AM
      Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] On the theme of sacrifice of The Christ and some personal matters

      Hi Andrei,


      I wonder that he had expectations rather than hope. I tend to think of him as one being without those kinds of expections in a way.


      I hear you about pain, I think I just think of it differently.


      I am not so sure you are right in the thought of why this Being was a boy. However that's all good. I tend to think of the Being as what is termed the  'sister soul' of Adam and so I tend to think of the neccessity of this Being comeing forth as male in the physical body.


      When you say 'this one was God' what do you mean by that? Do you mean God as in the sense as the One or  rather as 'a God'? And I am feeling like there is a little confusion as to who was the child's mother who died etc. although maybe its just the way it is written down. Unless I misunderstand that the mother who is left is actually the step mother and her child it is that has died, the Zarathustra child, but whom now lives within the Nathan child. I am also feeling like you are speaking as if there were only one child who gave up the sheaths instead of two. Why is this? What do you think has occurred or is it just the way you are writing it down?


      OKay, hold on here for a second. Okay, are you Catholic? Because I am sensing, and I was sensing it earlier, a thought towards this need for 'pain' to be involved and now that only God could heal what He had created: and so then Christ is God to you, so the Jews did kill God to you? I take no issue with you if you think that, only with the ideas. In any case I do not mean to be offensive rather I like to have things clear in front of me. What is your religious tradition if you don't mind answering. I was brought up Catholic however I tended to ignore the adults and only concentrate on the artistic element and the words of Jesus alone. I seemed to not want to do anything else other than cut out these little words and pictures of him and then mold them into the wood works. I somehow breesed through these days of classes without learning any of their rituals or their handsigns:) etc. I am always amazed by my Catholic friends as to their detail of knowing just when to say 'and also to you' etc. Amazed that I somehow missed all of this. Although thankful now or I woulda been a nun in this lifetime within that damn church and then possibly have been, later on, kicked out for insubordination: ))))))


      I think it would be cool to have an open dialogue about these things and debate them from a level where nothing is hidden to the best of our ability and to keep it on the ideas and not the personal.


      All good things and thanks,


      --- On Wed, 4/30/08, Andrei O. <amail4andrei@ yahoo.com> wrote:

      From: Andrei O. <amail4andrei@ yahoo.com>
      Subject: Re: [anthroposophy_ tomorrow] On the theme of sacrifice of The Christ and some personal matters
      To: anthroposophy_ tomorrow@ yahoogroups. com
      Date: Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 1:39 PM

      Dear Dottie,

      Right to the point:
      Suffering is pain, be it physical or moral. It might imply sorrow, grief, desolation. It may need the ability to wait, to endure, to have the patience.
      At the same time, the knowledge involves suffering, or at least the suffering coming from com-passion.
      of course, Steiner also was desolated, since his expectations were not fulfilled; the "fruits' (brought about by the people whom he rendered the "How to know the higher worlds") were far from his expectations.

      As to the Jesus of Nazareth, the topic is more sensible...
      The pure soul, bearing the influence of Krishna, Buddha... being born in a boy, so as to implant the roots of wisdom, love, purity and readiness of sacrifice. 12 years this process has to be ongoing. Then, closer to his teenage, the Zarathustra I took possession of that boy-man, the I who before that was dwelling and living as another boy, perhaps a little bit more mature (it might be several years difference). That another boy dies, so does his father. Soon his present mother dies too and the both families unite. Years and years the boy is living without any awareness of his greatness. This understanding, through various ways, gets clearer the closer he gets to his age of 30. Then he becomes ready to offer himself and all he possesses - his entity as such - to the One Who's destiny and task is to bear and wave / lift the sin of men. This One was God, cause only the one who created man is able to bear and lift the man's erroneous development, cause only the Creator loves the creature so much, and only He has that power. At the same time his mother is rejuvenated due to the implication of the another mother, whose boy died at his teenage. The One dwells in the the human entity so prepared for three years. First being less attached to his humanity / manship, then more and more. In time, he become God and Man - equally. In time he masters all that is a human entity. He goes deeper, and now his whole body is kept together by his will. The time's just ripe for  the final point of his earth mission.... Blood pours into the Earth, He gets into / becomes the aura of Earth. He paves the way (as first bearer and walker) for the rest of humanity for follow the road of escape, of right development. This path / way might seem not very easy or just sometime, but... the matter is that the Path is not invented, the Path is He himslef, and He is such as He is, not other.

      Sensible (or sensitive) topic...

      With all my respect,


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