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28657Re: [anthroposophy_tomorrow] Re: sorry folks, but have to repeat myself once again

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  • Joel Wendt
    Aug 3, 2006
      Dear Steve,

      We are still spinning round and round about whether you can state
      this material as fact, on the basis that Steiner said it, that is on
      authority. That was the original question, and remains the question,
      however many times you quote Steiner.

      A truth is not to be asserted to be true, because Steiner said it
      was true. We can, and should when we are able, say: I tested this that
      Steiner said, and was able to verify to myself that it is so. Or we can
      argue logically, such as by starting with a definition (for example)
      that knowledge is the union of percept and concept (experience and
      thought), and if all we have is concept (that is thought without
      experience, then we can't have knowledge. At the same time we can have
      understanding, which we can also define as a mental picture created from
      reading something given to us by an expert in the field.

      This process of understanding is "explained" (made understandable)
      to us in the material you quoted from Occult Science (which I've read
      many times by the way).

      A biologist, who buys into the latest version of natural selection,
      understands the world via that paradigm. We, as students of
      Anthroposophical Spiritual Science, can understand the world via that
      paradigm. This understanding, yes, can be an aid in futher development,
      but not because Steiner says it. Rather, because we experience this aid
      for ourselves. We take in this understanding, and it helps us further
      our own development, which development is something entirely different
      from this understanding itself.

      The ladder I stand on to paint my house, is not the action which
      enable me to paint my house.

      The mental pictures I stand on, while I pursue coming to knowledge
      of my own spiritual activity as a thinker, are not the Imaginations I
      perceive once I have developed my own ability to paint with thought my
      pictures of spiritual reality. Once I do this, I have no need for the
      ladder any more at all, and in point of fact, if I rely too much on the
      ladder, I am in danger of never developing my own ability to fly.

      Step off the ladder Steve...and use your own wings.

      "In the beginning, various kinds of thoughts will arise when we are
      trying to be silent during prayer and meditation. Notice them, but do
      not worry about them. They are pictures of your own soul and spirit
      being reflected there for your appreciation and consideration. After
      time you will discover that you can control what appears here in ways
      that will surprise you. Wings (limbs) of inner will-on-fire (spirit)
      are being born in the soul.

      "Remember, we are spiritual children trying out our adult wings. Christ
      has promised: we can learn to fly (the Kingdom of Heaven is within you)."

      from my book: "the Way of the Fool"


      Steve Hale wrote:

      > Joel said:
      > "Is your brain spinning in circles yet? If someone can find some
      > logic in this whole thread, please let me know."
      > No, because you purposely fuck it up! I kindly asked you to read
      > the first chapter of the book, which is freely available on the RS e-
      > lib archive. Then, in your inimitable fashion, you go ahead and
      > fuck up the very fact that you didn't even read it. And so, in
      > anticipation of this fact, I offered something more for your
      > consideration, relative to a book that you obviously have not, nor
      > will ever read.
      > Well, here's the fact in a nutshell: The conceptual uptake of new
      > knowledge has consequences on the astral body that form the basis
      > for the further exercises found in KOHW. And furthermore, if these
      > exercises from KOHW are undertaken in advance of this conceptual
      > uptake, it's no good.
      > Steve
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