Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Speculation on Creation

Expand Messages
  • holderlin66
    ... wrote: Fritjof Capra is the author of the Tao of Physics and helped create the film MindWalk . MindWalk by Capra is so stunning
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 4, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Maurice McCarthy
      <Maurice.McCarthy@b...> wrote:

      Fritjof Capra is the author of the Tao of Physics and helped create
      the film "MindWalk". "MindWalk" by Capra is so stunning that it leads
      right to the Etheric world. It asks the real questions of science.

      Maurice redefined and warmly to my mind:

      2. If we concede the physicalist limitation that the act of knowledge
      is
      human then we have

      c+ a => k iff c = f(a-h)

      which reads "reliable knowledge can only be obtained about the
      outside world
      if it already has a peculiarly human essence or quality about it".
      Unless
      matter is human in some sense then predictive knowledge fails, but
      prediction does obtain, therefore matter is a deformed humanity. All
      matter.

      3. By the same token it is impossible to know what the temporal
      evolution of
      angels was through successive incarnations of the universe exactly
      because
      their is no humanity in it. The alternative account is therefore a
      description of the PRECONDITIONS necessary to obtain our human world,
      i.e. a
      description of the hierarchies of the angels, angelology. After years
      of
      worrying it, at last there is a way for me to describe Aristotle's
      distinction between priority in being and priority in time. Think of
      it like
      this: time is an arrow running from left to right across the page.
      Angelology is a vertical arrow running downwards to the origin of
      human
      time. Consequently, you're right in comment to <5> I must insist on
      the
      first 'creation' - code word for precondition - as super
      intelligences.

      4. With respect to the quote from Aristotle and your question from
      comment
      on <2> "What Permanent substance are we talking about," Aristotle's
      answer
      was the active mind or energeia nous. That's fine when humanity is
      approaching intelligence, the whole world is learning to think
      materialistically but its not good enough now. In fact I don't know
      what to
      call it and it is, properly speaking utterly indefinable. Quite
      utterly. It
      is just awesome. Spirituality now is of the nature of the will,
      rather than
      intelligence, so something like thela might do (Greek for 'will') but
      it
      carries no meaning to me.

      Bradford Comments on the Comments;

      Now your new definition in the first part of this and of course the
      real structure of stream of heredity is horizontal but met with the
      stream of Angelic insertion of I AM seed, on a Vertical line. All
      that is possible to think out of human consciousness, allows us to
      approach to same vertical family of beings that Rise from human to
      Angel to Kyriotetes to Seraphim and Thrones.. these all have had
      defined human phases of consciousness. Trickle down effect works
      here. But that also gives rise to higher ancient gods lurking and
      manifesting here on the physical plane. Christ and the Temptation in
      the Garden was a real meeting of the Old Gods and rolling the dice on
      the spoils of humanity.

      These levels of consciousness, one that wore a human frame and was an
      Elohim, Spirit of Form and direct line of spiritual management, CEO
      in charge of Creation directly from the Father Gods.. Seraphim,
      Cherubim and Thrones... means that the germinal higher phases of
      consciousness and thinking must arise in each human intelligence. In
      Freedom. Each person must arise to the Consciousness soul and begin
      to make Angelhood out from the Spirit Self level of development. It
      is important indeed to keep St. Francis in mind as well as Buddha and
      Zarathustra. But Steiner himself was already operating and outlining
      in clear cut logic aspects of higher consciousness. How the Angel
      loses the Physical body and Archangel loses the Etheric...Archangelic
      Etheric fields get spread out into geography, foods, spices, tastes,
      cultures, plants..and language structures... The lower physical,
      etheric, astral, ego forces rise and are our platform to higher
      consciousness. It is human all the way, but not merely dumb down
      George Bush human, but Steiner enhanced and Christian Rosenkreuz
      enlivened consciousness which directly lead the human onto legitamte
      Angelic development within human frameworks.

      Well we need not worry about Unger, I knew him, but there are others
      and my inner radar and lights did go off with your statements:

      ". By the same token it is impossible to know what the temporal
      evolution of
      angels was through successive incarnations of the universe exactly
      because
      their is no humanity in it. The alternative account is therefore a
      description of the PRECONDITIONS necessary to obtain our human world,
      i.e. a
      description of the hierarchies of the angels, angelology. After years
      of
      worrying it, at last there is a way for me to describe Aristotle's
      distinction between priority in being and priority in time."

      That was very clear. You see Steiner did what we can only picture in
      Gandalf. Steiner walked backwards like a Crab, the Anthro Cancer
      sign, until human was not.. was there anything prior to human was
      not. Steiner is vivid in a calm way, about standing before an abyss,
      beyond which there is no human...Beings exist...and creation is
      unfolding but way out beyond Man as a StoneCrystal Skeletal Saturn
      Being... there stood the consciousness of Steiner on a lonely face of
      a vast abyss.. there humanity stops and above and beyond, all that
      humanity is, as unfolding Bio-Carbon/Immortal, laughing, singing
      memory laden human... is vastly, and alonely NOT. Science Minds have
      no conception of how we humans rise to the levels of Gods step by
      step nor how we arrived at this point where we are Humans that have
      served, adored and Killed a God which is now the Logos Father Force
      of Love for unfolding upwards.

      You have no idea Maurice, what I conveyed about John Nash and the
      emancipated Ahrimanic double that Steiner indicated would arise? You
      know I hate to bring all that to the for again. After all this is
      just a friendly discussion about the basic Occult Science an Outline
      and building a bridge to the popular Stephen Hawkings. Rather it is a
      case of Equation Trade offs that have to do with Ethers falling away
      from the Divine, Like Intelligence, into human brains and laps.
      Ethers and Intelligence can truly be said to be doing a lap dance on
      the brain and crotches of educators.

      Fallen, decayed ethers of Light and the gathering up of what Jan
      constantly writes out of her humanism, a warmth and light we must
      learn to appreciate, study and build up to.. 1933 and Einstein
      Fission ideas.. were all dawning trade offs of Light, but why can't
      the enormous scope of thought and Science that Aristotle, who evolved
      to Thomas Aquinas, who evolved to Steiner and along the way stopped
      by and tried to mend the bridge between Haroun Al Raschid and
      Aristotle find room for thought? Because basically the specialization
      inbreeding of education allows people to fail to investigate and see
      the links to things. "MindWalk" John Scotus and how we are following
      threads from our past lives, sometimes with capacities already inborn
      that reveal where our inner interest and soul force is.

      Understanding the Mephisto relation or even developing an interest
      did not arise and does not arise in the locked doors of insight and
      certainly John Nash is not a tale of "A Beautiful Mind". As to failed
      or true speculation about John Scotus... you would do well to review
      his in depth unfolding of triadic creation...but it matters not what
      you think about a past life... the fact is that Nominalism and
      Realism are current Political coins. Nominalism allowed science to
      impregnate itself with a full fledged sour grapes education that is a
      must, in order for anyone to commuicate and be loved and manipulated
      by scholors anywhere.

      I often read Wired Magazine, I used to, because the ideas would get
      me really fired up. They were so blatantly off track that by the very
      dynamic of Spiritual Science the inner connections would arise of
      themselves with fiery insight attached. I went to the bookstore and
      sat down with STephen Hawkings mighty pictorial books of Science and
      the future and from that sizzling insights arose like meteor
      bombardments on the moon. Silent in my brain, in space nobody can
      hear you scream...but I could hear the whole dehydrated sclerotic
      Hawkins spin...and knew from experience we were supposed to teach
      this in school to our kids..Steiner loved reading opponents having a
      clear insight into reality it literally jumps off the page and
      demands the I Am to correct the error.

      Maurice, I'm a fan of yours
      Bradford
    • holderlin66
      ... http://books.reviewindex.co.uk/reviews_uk/0006544894.html Bradford comments; Now, the other smattering is to line you up to the
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 4, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Maurice McCarthy
        <Maurice.McCarthy@b...>

        http://books.reviewindex.co.uk/reviews_uk/0006544894.html

        Bradford comments;

        Now, the other smattering is to line you up to the historical Irish
        Monks who were in Hybernia and why, probably you are out there where
        you are. After all that Hybernia mystery center and the Irish monks
        is very much something down deep, eh Maurice?

        Victor Hugo underwent as an Irish Hybernia Monk, an Initation of such
        intensity that one of his works makes it all the way to Saturn
        Initation Vision....It was the isolation and the inward Initiation
        that Steiner described in his little tour of Mystery Centers. These
        all have to do with deeper insights of the carried capacity of souls.

        With John Scotus there are much deeper works of his that go very
        deeply into understanding and unfolding the triaic structure of
        Creation and far more on track than Science..however.. bridge,
        bridge, and bridge I always say.

        http://www.medio-evo.org/eriugenae.htm

        "We can say then that in John Scotus Eriugena we find expressed the
        spiritual yearning that has its roots in the Irish monasticism of St.
        Patrick and St. Colombanus. He showed to the Christians (monastic and
        lay) of his times the path to theosis (attaining the divine) as a
        universal call to sanctity for all humankind. Therefore and thereby,
        true believers can become, by gradual progress, transformed in and
        into the image of the Son, and may arrive at a knowledge of the
        mystery of God, in that "No man hath seen God at any time; the only
        begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared
        him"."

        "Scotus Eriugena's translation became, therefore, vital for the Latin
        West's knowledge and understanding of Dionysius, and of other
        important Greek patristic writers, such as Maximus the Confessor, the
        brilliant commentator on Dionysius, and Gregory of Nyssa. The
        Irishman was also the greatest theologian and philosopher before St.
        Anselm, and in his most famous work, the Periphyseon, constructed the
        Medieval Latin West's first system of thought.

        Here, he joins the philosophical notion of natura (borrowed from
        Boethius) with the theological one of creation: the coupling of
        these two concepts, he believed, would enable the interpretation of
        all truth. In this he is strongly influenced by Dionysius, so much so
        as to constitute the first Christian neo-Platonic system.
        Paradoxically, his thought brings us back to the present, because
        some of his intuitions, impregnated as they are with idealism and
        Nominalism, were taken up by Hegel and his interpreters, whether in
        philosophy or in contemporary theology. He divided all reality into
        four parts:

        1) Nature which creates and is not created (God)

        2) Nature which creates and is created (the primordial, or first,
        cause)

        3) 1) Nature which does not create and is created (all created
        things, animate and inanimate)

        4) Nature which does not create and is not created (representing
        creation in its ultimate transformation, but also the mystery of
        evil, not created by God and capable only of destruction)

        As will be evident, John Scotus Eriugena is capable of expressing,
        with the few intellectual means available in his own time, a vigorous
        and almost `modern' philosophical construct, very full and
        articulate. "
      • Maurice McCarthy
        Bradford wrote: Fritjof Capra is the author of the Tao of Physics and helped create the film MindWalk . MindWalk by Capra is so stunning that it leads right
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 4, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          Bradford wrote:

          Fritjof Capra is the author of the Tao of Physics and helped create
          the film "MindWalk". "MindWalk" by Capra is so stunning that it leads
          right to the Etheric world. It asks the real questions of science.

          M:
          Seem to remember Capra saying that his mother was a big fan of RS but he
          never took any interest. She did not put it in front of him, no
          indoctrination - an anthroposophist in spirit and likely, in fact, a member.
          When eventually he did he realised that it would be a huge effort to get to
          grips with the new way of thinking and he was not prepared to put that
          effort in. Perhaps his soul just belongs to another School.

          Had the tip-off in the SteinerStudy today: the act of knowledge is not
          forceful will, not will in the physicalist sense we are used to, but the
          *willingness* to understand. It's a beauty. Willingness alone is deathless
          and eternal, the permanent substance. N.B. This definition has altered since
          Aristotle because consciousness has changed and the reality of experience
          must always correspond to consciousness. Notice how one form of willingness
          is powerlessness. How many people today live longer than the three score
          years and ten (70 years) of the Bible to spend many long days in old
          people's homes powerless as to their fate, sometimes with no apparent
          quality of life. This suffering is a gift of Grace to enthuse their next
          incarnation, to enable them to find meaning in life after suffering the
          darkness of materialism. At least that's the only suggestion I have.
          Treasure your old people. They carry the future of the Earth.


          B: ... You have no idea Maurice, what I conveyed about John Nash and the
          emancipated Ahrimanic double that Steiner indicated would arise?

          M: Afraid not. Must have missed it in my readings. Leave it to me. I'll
          think it through.

          B: ... Maurice, I'm a fan of yours


          M: ... Whoa! Easy boys!

          We've got the DSV Pelican (a large pipe laying and diving support vessel
          well known to British mariners) here doing subsea repairs and hooking-up a
          new production well so I might be a bit tied up tonight.

          ****************************************************************************

          This e-mail message may contain privileged/confidential information.
          It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the indicated
          addressee (or responsible for delivery to such a person)
          you shall neither read nor retain this message, copy or distribute it to
          anyone, or use this e-mail for any other purpose. In such cases, please
          destroy the message immediately and notify the sender by return e-mail.

          ****************************************************************************
        • Maurice McCarthy
          Bradford wrote; Now, the other smattering is to line you up to the historical Irish Monks who were in Hybernia and why, probably you are out there where you
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 4, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Bradford wrote;

            Now, the other smattering is to line you up to the historical Irish
            Monks who were in Hybernia and why, probably you are out there where
            you are. After all that Hybernia mystery center and the Irish monks
            is very much something down deep, eh Maurice?

            M:
            Well I have been called the Moray Mouth (of Zod - they think I'm from
            another planet onboard here), and I'm sat more or less squarely in the mouth
            of the Moray Firth. Some of the river waters mingling in the sea here come
            down the Caledonian Canal and River Ness from the 1,000 depths of the Loch
            itself. Born in the NE of England I was steeled in the stubborn, hard
            working atmosphere of the working class area which expected to endure
            hardships. Moving to Wales I've certainly been adopted by the deep running,
            heart-felt Folk Spirit of the Valleys. This was only made possible by a
            disastrous and explosive first marriage which pulverised the shell around my
            heart and opened it to the world. All this and there is Irish blood in me
            too.

            The quotes from http://www.medio-evo.org/eriugenae.htm ring a lot of bells,
            yes, but I also studied Hegel for 15 years before meeting with RS. In fact
            even the name Hegel rang bells for me the very first time I saw it in the
            school library. I was 17.

            A chap who rejoices in the name of 'Biscuit' McVitie is pestering me for
            attention. You'd think he had important work to do or something.

            Maurice

            ****************************************************************************

            This e-mail message may contain privileged/confidential information.
            It is intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the indicated
            addressee (or responsible for delivery to such a person)
            you shall neither read nor retain this message, copy or distribute it to
            anyone, or use this e-mail for any other purpose. In such cases, please
            destroy the message immediately and notify the sender by return e-mail.

            ****************************************************************************
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.