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  • daniel bernard
    ho, soren, this is like a scare movie, this is a halloween joke? if not i ll be the first to opposite the dictature. ... Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video
    Message 1 of 3 , Nov 2, 2003
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      ho, soren,
                          this is like a scare movie, this is a halloween joke? if not i'll be the first to opposite the dictature.


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    • Maurice McCarthy
      I d like to run something past you which is still in first draught. If you would, please try to criticise as if you were a materialistic scientist. How much am
      Message 2 of 3 , Nov 2, 2003
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        I'd like to run something past you which is still in first draught. If you
        would, please try to criticise as if you were a materialistic scientist. How
        much am I going to get away with?

        Maurice




        A SPECULATIVE CREATION ACCOUNT
        by Maurice McCarthy

        November 2003.


        <1>
        The idea of knowledge may be expressed in a quasi-mathematical formula:

        c + a => k, iff c = f(a)

        which reads "an action 'a' upon a content 'c' yields knowledge 'k' if, and
        only if, the content is a function of the act". Now, since every function of
        the act is a product of that act then it follows that the act is the world
        creator, if knowledge exists. This poses a problem. Our reliable bodies of
        knowledge indicate that the material world precedes the development of the
        consciousness with which to know it, a consciouness which therefore is
        epiphenomenal to the material processes. Yet, on the other hand, all
        knowledge is unseated unless the idea of knowledge is true and this leads to
        the proposition that consciousness must precede the material. The two cannot
        be reconciled within a single incarnation of the cosmos and since both must
        simultaneously be true, in some sense, then if knowledge is to continue to
        be worthwhile, then we are obliged to seek the synthesis which will resolve
        the impasse. Since there must have been more than one incarnation of the
        cosmos then existence itself is something which comes and goes like sleep.

        <2>
        The act alone must exist without reference to any other if any other content
        can be known to exist at all. The act alone is permanent substance and from
        this substance every other content must be derived. The first creation,
        therefore, is the parturition of the act and the end of all existence is the
        re-absorbtion into the permanent. The act itself is absolute ignorance, for
        it has no confronting content to know. Equally, since its own creation is no
        mystery to it but an uttercompleteness of relation is already established
        then no impulse for knowledge can arise. The creator remains ignorant after
        creation.

        <3>
        As the act of knowledge is the transparent medium of all existence and
        knowledge, so that it has no definite quality of its own but is the
        possibility of all qualia, then a simple division of the substance of the
        act would only make an ignorant perisher, as opposed to the original
        permanent. Consequently the first parturition gives birth to many.

        <4>
        The many perishable acts confront each other as content for knowledge but
        each is entirely of the substance of the act whose character is to form
        relation, to know. Each therefore knows everyone of the rest intimately.
        Each willingly allows the others to live in harmony in it and reciprocally
        knows itself in the others. Each offers relation of its own accord so that
        perceiving and thinking never separate but the mutual perception is at once
        relational all the way to the essence of the other. This fully loving
        relation is the divine as such. The very first act of ignorance is thus to
        create gods in such harmony that their knowledge is absolute and they form a
        unity. As the unification completes the multitude dissolves back into the
        permanent and the first creation completes.

        On the way it incidentally shows that since the very first act of knowledge
        produces the divine then it is inevitable that a knower will form their
        image of god after themselves.

        <5>
        Mere repetition goes nowhere but the divine itself carries the capacity to
        create so the next incarnation of the cosmos sees a) the recapitulation of
        the divine and then b) the expression of absolute knowledge, i.e. wisdom. It
        should be noted that every adjective and noun in the last section and this
        refers to knowing beings - wisdom is a class of such beings. This means that
        all intelligence consists of the relations between higher beings. Wisdom is
        a subjective movement begetting time as such which subtends to objective
        form, or in general is spatial relation. The wisdom filled unity of movement
        and form completes an absolute knowledge of the second cosmos.

        <6>
        Now in the third cosmos we are entitled to speak of the first beginnings of
        humanity, not human beings themselves but the class of beings who must be
        present to mould original humanity as we mould the material earth. Every
        lower class of beings represents a condition which the higher beings must
        accomodate in quite the same way as we have vegetation and animal life.

        The beings of wisdom don't quite have the harmony or power to give forth
        their own substance in creation but co-create through their knowledge. Thus
        the third cosmos is again an expression of the divine, this time mediated by
        wisdom. Thus wisdom is placed into the worlds around lower classes.
        ----------------

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      • holderlin66
        ... wrote: A SPECULATIVE CREATION ACCOUNT by Maurice McCarthy November 2003. Maurice forgive me ahead of time... I m just gonna let out
        Message 3 of 3 , Nov 3, 2003
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          --- In anthroposophy@yahoogroups.com, Maurice McCarthy
          <Maurice.McCarthy@b...> wrote:

          A SPECULATIVE CREATION ACCOUNT
          by Maurice McCarthy

          November 2003.

          Maurice forgive me ahead of time... I'm just gonna let out some of my
          own quirks, even though I suspect you are attempting to explain
          Saturn, Sun and Moon evolution... from point of origin, seminal
          creative Fiat prior to day one.

          Bradford comments;

          Communicating to the Science minds of our time. Tom Mellett was one
          of the best and indeed Bobby Matherene is a highly skilled scientist
          and anthro. They both are. There is an entire section on called or
          was called AS..Anthro Science. I was slightly disappointed in what
          little commentary came out regarding the basic truths uttered by Jan.
          That Steiner realized that atom and molecule theory came out of the
          nervous system, a taxed nervous system at that, brain, and matter
          tightly woven in the astral nervous system..could be compressed and
          arise as an Atom or particle theory.

          In the particle theory we have an astral condition of the brain and
          in the wave theory we would, appear to have, the blood and mystic
          theory. I also find it disappointing that Stephen Hawkings and others
          think about the universe, void of the Living Being..because they may
          not be particle or wave.. but Mighty Archai and Archanglic Beings
          whos attributes we detect in Light-in Coldness- in Passion and Pride,
          and in a quality of Love in all Sympathy with things. The film, "A
          Beautiful Mind" where John Nash through his mathematical approach to
          the universe and digesting the equations, or ingesting the equations
          of matter theory... becomes a martyr like Nietzsche.

          Nash falls into the awaiting horror that an actual shadow emancipates
          itself from the thinking...Steiner dealt with this and I have dealt
          with this as well in several essay. My problem with Einstein and
          Science as well, is that I fully believe in the trade off theory. I
          believe that Einstein found along with Oppenheimer's execution of the
          problem...The counter force to actual Light. In otherwords, Etheric
          Christ Light rose...now and Science took the peelings off the
          fundamental apple... and said, look at these peelings, these
          sheddings of the mighty force of Light we can play with. So Einstein
          in 1933 crossed through the barrier reef of Light severed from Love,
          as a Trade off for humanity.

          I am disappointed in Science and Anthro Science that continues to
          think that by following the bridge markings of John Nash, that
          someone can suddenly find the trigger which would release the
          misunderstanding surrounding Steiner. Rather Decayed Light and the
          Devachan and the simple fairy tale of sticking ones hands in a Rose
          Fire that George MacDonald framed, is so very out of sorts with
          Science. Certainly it can be explained. Electricty, Magnetism,
          decayed Racism or decayed Etheric Life forces off the Tree of Life,
          are cast off for a blundering humanity to made a damn big deal about,
          but it leads us, and rightly into deeper and deeper territory, but
          without deeper and deeper understanding. You get my point?

          <1>
          The idea of knowledge may be expressed in a quasi-mathematical
          formula:

          c + a => k, iff c = f(a)

          which reads "an action 'a' upon a content 'c' yields knowledge 'k'
          if, and
          only if, the content is a function of the act". Now, since every
          function of
          the act is a product of that act then it follows that the act is the
          world
          creator, if knowledge exists. This poses a problem. Our reliable
          bodies of
          knowledge indicate that the material world precedes the development
          of the
          consciousness with which to know it, a consciouness which therefore is
          epiphenomenal to the material processes. Yet, on the other hand, all
          knowledge is unseated unless the idea of knowledge is true and this
          leads to
          the proposition that consciousness must precede the material. The two
          cannot
          be reconciled within a single incarnation of the cosmos and since
          both must
          simultaneously be true, in some sense, then if knowledge is to
          continue to
          be worthwhile, then we are obliged to seek the synthesis which will
          resolve
          the impasse. Since there must have been more than one incarnation of
          the
          cosmos then existence itself is something which comes and goes like
          sleep.

          Bradford Comments;

          Now this Fichte like insight was wrought through the great
          philosophers and Hegel and Holderlin, back a few posts, understood
          the same thing as Fichte about the I AM. The creator should know
          itself and in knowing itself the organs for knowing its vast
          kingdoms, if Higher Beings had not already achieved a stage higher or
          several stages higher than humanity, Creator should, one or many
          creators, should be conscious of itself through mineral, plant,
          animal, human, etheric, astral, and I AM levels and humans can only
          reach up to such development. How do Science minds want to grasp God,
          in some simplistic manner out of math? Certainly there are many
          unexplored equations and Tesla comes to mind right away as well as
          Keely. But even here, we have examined and Steiner has examined the
          destiny of Keely under the name of Strader in his Mystery Dramas.
          That is that Science minds have to penetrate and deal in Ahriman's
          realm. Tesla called humanity "Meat Machines". He was born at
          Midnight, against Goethe at High Noon. Does anyone care to study the
          social problems of both John Nash, Tesla, Keely and Strader as
          Strader slogs his way through his karma? No?

          Well for our information Strader, Keely's destiny was formed out the
          the War of the Minstrals.. But even here, Science minds don't want to
          tread in this rather unsafe territory. A nice equation will do and
          this will explain the Beingness of the Universe and of course our
          simplistic understanding of God as Creator.

          <2>
          The act alone must exist without reference to any other if any other
          content
          can be known to exist at all. The act alone is permanent substance
          and from
          this substance every other content must be derived. The first
          creation,
          therefore, is the parturition of the act and the end of all existence
          is the
          re-absorbtion into the permanent. The act itself is absolute
          ignorance, for
          it has no confronting content to know. Equally, since its own
          creation is no
          mystery to it but an uttercompleteness of relation is already
          established
          then no impulse for knowledge can arise. The creator remains ignorant
          after
          creation.

          Bradford comments;

          What permanent substance do you think you can get away with. The Atom
          of God, a little particle that does not survive, no matter, no none,
          not a scrap of matter goes past the threshold..so What Permanent
          substance are we talking about?

          <3>
          As the act of knowledge is the transparent medium of all existence and
          knowledge, so that it has no definite quality of its own but is the
          possibility of all qualia, then a simple division of the substance of
          the
          act would only make an ignorant perisher, as opposed to the original
          permanent. Consequently the first parturition gives birth to many.

          Bradford comments;

          Is this some sweet way of saying Big Bang? Maurice, I know you don't
          mean it this way and I could be merely a crass materialist in
          response and stay within the confines of the argument. Every
          university craves the whole thinking mass of humans to stay within
          the confines of established paradigms which will resist anything to
          do with Saturn, Sun, Moon and Earth Evolution.. to get to Beings is
          half fairy tale and half science and it would take a Halfling out of
          Tolkien. Tolkien has more Science in his fairy tale than most
          university thinkers have in their bow ties.

          <4>
          The many perishable acts confront each other as content for knowledge
          but
          each is entirely of the substance of the act whose character is to
          form
          relation, to know. Each therefore knows everyone of the rest
          intimately.
          Each willingly allows the others to live in harmony in it and
          reciprocally
          knows itself in the others. Each offers relation of its own accord so
          that
          perceiving and thinking never separate but the mutual perception is
          at once
          relational all the way to the essence of the other. This fully loving
          relation is the divine as such. The very first act of ignorance is
          thus to
          create gods in such harmony that their knowledge is absolute and they
          form a
          unity. As the unification completes the multitude dissolves back into
          the
          permanent and the first creation completes.

          On the way it incidentally shows that since the very first act of
          knowledge
          produces the divine then it is inevitable that a knower will form
          their
          image of god after themselves.

          Bradford Comments;

          One of the experts in the field of "Philsophy of Spiritual Acitivity
          is Joel. Percept and Concept and the field of the thinking human
          where this activity of penetrating with intuition into concepts and
          beginning to sense things behind the veil, like Plant patterns,
          compartmentalising all of Nature, but still hanging tight to the
          structure of consciousness or lack of in the mineral level of
          consciousness. Plants and their sleeping Earth etheric, physical
          expression. Breeds of animals..as they express various tendency
          towards warmth ethers and the splitting of the hoof to paw and claw
          to hand and beyond to wing. Astral differences, Light and Color on
          the Spectrum of Newton..like scent can be color and how many parts
          per billion and how the butter fly wings are a projection of Devachan
          tuning that is attuned to plants. How insects are the severed nervous
          system of the plants.. waiting to be joined up to create animals of
          the future. Percepts and Concepts that lead to might integration with
          Science fact and Spiritual Science Fact are so astonishing that most
          thinkers wither and like any simpleton who wants proof of God, also
          wants proof that what the stunning miracle we are expressing, are
          rabidly true and science should get their ass down to work instead of
          wandering in their eternal labyrinth of deception.

          <5>
          Mere repetition goes nowhere but the divine itself carries the
          capacity to
          create so the next incarnation of the cosmos sees a) the
          recapitulation of
          the divine and then b) the expression of absolute knowledge, i.e.
          wisdom. It
          should be noted that every adjective and noun in the last section and
          this
          refers to knowing beings - wisdom is a class of such beings. This
          means that
          all intelligence consists of the relations between higher beings.
          Wisdom is
          a subjective movement begetting time as such which subtends to
          objective
          form, or in general is spatial relation. The wisdom filled unity of
          movement
          and form completes an absolute knowledge of the second cosmos.

          Bradford comments;

          Suddenly we leap into Beings, from such a dry study, the science mind
          is wondering, what the hell, Beings, mere humans, all modeled after
          human Intelligence? Or the Big, mighty Seraphic, Planetary and
          movement forces in our wills and Kryiotetes and Dynamis, or maybe
          Archai and Time Spirits.. and do they all have same pattern relations
          as we do to our math and current science? Not!

          <6>
          Now in the third cosmos we are entitled to speak of the first
          beginnings of
          humanity, not human beings themselves but the class of beings who
          must be
          present to mould original humanity as we mould the material earth.
          Every
          lower class of beings represents a condition which the higher beings
          must
          accomodate in quite the same way as we have vegetation and animal
          life.

          The beings of wisdom don't quite have the harmony or power to give
          forth
          their own substance in creation but co-create through their
          knowledge. Thus
          the third cosmos is again an expression of the divine, this time
          mediated by
          wisdom. Thus wisdom is placed into the worlds around lower classes.

          Bradford Comments;

          So from what I understand or misunderstood, and it likely that I
          misunderstood, you are trying to deal with First Creation, Second
          Creation and Third Creation. John Scotus Eriginea, who is probably
          incarnated now out in the North Sea, attempted to unfold creation
          along the same theories as you are presenting. It is things like this
          that surface up, out of the stream of time, that appear to become
          apart of Steiner's Saturn, Sun, and Mooon evolutions that were
          pressed by refined brains back then and indeed they surface in our
          attempts to put math and number... not the wonderful numbers of rib
          cage and zodiac or spinal nothches and 33 of the I Am spine rhythm,
          or 13 to 1 patterns of how the human blood and body weight correlate
          or the gestation cycle of the elephant and how the Mars orbit pattern
          in days is the same as the Elephants gestations cycle or the rabbit
          is the same gestation cycle as the Moon from new to full... 28 days,
          or the time it takes the Sun to rotate once, 21 to 25 days or nearly
          three weeks is the gestation cycle of eggs and Bees, as thy model
          themselves from Queen to Drone... based on the Sun rhythm...

          Oh yes.. I would love to see Science gather in its tremendous
          scattered research and put Pythagorean patterns through so that
          nature is transparent. It is so obvious to anyone who begins to
          unravel the numerical relation to the world of the stars, gestation,
          biology, bone.. and how the human being is made, that we are not
          dealing with anything arbitrary. Which is the sticking point with
          Science, constantly trying to prove that it is not chance or accident
          or it is chance or accident. None of the details of the universe or
          nature can be attributed to Chance.

          Now John Scotus, Tom Mellett, Bobby Matherene, Tesla and one of the
          best books on physics, what is it the Dao of Physics or something by
          a wonderful author... and the very best film is "MindWalk" it is the
          most impressive film made.. MindWalk, by the same author I am
          refering to.... I know you are out on the North Sea and all, but to
          see "MindWalk" is one of the most stunning teaching films on the
          planet. Anyone on this list interested in the themes Maurice is
          raising should see "MindWalk". You are missing a whole updated
          segment of reality if you fail to see this film.

          So, yes, our impulse to carry and explore and explain the universe to
          those unwilling to see it.. is very much like the fabled blind monks
          trying to describe and elephant... an Elephant standing on a Turtle
          with thirteen colonies, thirteen Last Supper images, Thirteen
          Arthurian Knights... Thirtenn and the Zodiac with the Lamb...try to
          describe this to the Science mind once the Shadow has fully
          emancipated itself and will now come out to haunt and lead the human
          as in poor John Nash's case.

          Mind you, I want Science Seers, thinkers and researchers
          communicating deeply and profoundly and awakening insights that we
          have failed to see... I long for it, I crave it, and I think I could
          understand it if it was in front of me... But there are others, who I
          mentioned who have done ground breaking work and still others like
          Pffeiffer who was a Scientist as well as the entire science section
          of the Goetheanum who are never believed, Like Unger, yet they are
          right.

          Bradford
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